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	<title>Comments on: The South African Invasion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95624</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 08:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95624</guid>
		<description>Ms. Charlize Theron seems to have undergone specific training in American English after she came to the States at age 18 - otherwise she would not be able to speak the way she does...

A great actress, by the way !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlize_Theron</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms. Charlize Theron seems to have undergone specific training in American English after she came to the States at age 18 - otherwise she would not be able to speak the way she does&#8230;</p>
<p>A great actress, by the way !</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlize_Theron" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlize_Theron</a></p>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95615</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 06:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95615</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Someguy, I appreciate the compliment. I did not mean to start an online feud against you, Quebecers, or francophone Canadians in general.

The background to my harsh reaction is the fact that, several years ago, I was fired from a job in Germany by my (francophone) Canadian boss because of his conviction that my ability to communicate in English (not French!) was insufficient and that, in his view, only a native speaker of English would do. As is easy to imagine, the allegation (made by someone who spoke English with a heavy French accent and constantly slipped French words into his speeches held in English) that my linguistic ability was not up to scratch deeply hurt my feelings.

I took the case to the employment tribunal of the city of Cologne, Germany, which found that a francophone Quebecer was not in a position to judge whether my English was good enough for the job, and thus they ruled that I was entitled to compensation. Some consolation, at least, but insufficient to alleviate the feeling of profound humiliation...

I've long found a new (and better) job, but the episode is still haunting me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Someguy, I appreciate the compliment. I did not mean to start an online feud against you, Quebecers, or francophone Canadians in general.</p>
<p>The background to my harsh reaction is the fact that, several years ago, I was fired from a job in Germany by my (francophone) Canadian boss because of his conviction that my ability to communicate in English (not French!) was insufficient and that, in his view, only a native speaker of English would do. As is easy to imagine, the allegation (made by someone who spoke English with a heavy French accent and constantly slipped French words into his speeches held in English) that my linguistic ability was not up to scratch deeply hurt my feelings.</p>
<p>I took the case to the employment tribunal of the city of Cologne, Germany, which found that a francophone Quebecer was not in a position to judge whether my English was good enough for the job, and thus they ruled that I was entitled to compensation. Some consolation, at least, but insufficient to alleviate the feeling of profound humiliation&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve long found a new (and better) job, but the episode is still haunting me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: lirelou</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95575</link>
		<dc:creator>lirelou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 00:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95575</guid>
		<description>From: CEO, Koreafilms Inc.

To: Ms. Charlize Theron, Hollywood, USA

Dear Ms. Theron,

It is my unpleasant duty to inform you that we are cancelling your contract to appear in our new film "ESL Sonata". Unfortunately the part of "Maggie" requires a native English speaker. Our Attorney informs us that you are a South African. It is well known in Korea that South Africans do not speak English as their native tongue. Moreover, our office in Cape Town confirms that your patronym is Afrikaaner. As an African, there are few Korean films which could offer you a starring role, however convincingly you may dye your hair. Our "Maggie" must not only have a flawless English accent, she must be a bonafide blonde with blue eyes. 

In closing, we appreciate your interest in our film, and we will forward your impressive cv to our sister company in Nairobi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From: CEO, Koreafilms Inc.</p>
<p>To: Ms. Charlize Theron, Hollywood, USA</p>
<p>Dear Ms. Theron,</p>
<p>It is my unpleasant duty to inform you that we are cancelling your contract to appear in our new film &#8220;ESL Sonata&#8221;. Unfortunately the part of &#8220;Maggie&#8221; requires a native English speaker. Our Attorney informs us that you are a South African. It is well known in Korea that South Africans do not speak English as their native tongue. Moreover, our office in Cape Town confirms that your patronym is Afrikaaner. As an African, there are few Korean films which could offer you a starring role, however convincingly you may dye your hair. Our &#8220;Maggie&#8221; must not only have a flawless English accent, she must be a bonafide blonde with blue eyes. </p>
<p>In closing, we appreciate your interest in our film, and we will forward your impressive cv to our sister company in Nairobi.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95529</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 06:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95529</guid>
		<description>Typo...Just noticed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typo&#8230;Just noticed it.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95465</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95465</guid>
		<description>Well, Fantasy, you're grasp of English, or at least your ability to write in it, appears to be superior to that of most English native speakers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Fantasy, you&#8217;re grasp of English, or at least your ability to write in it, appears to be superior to that of most English native speakers.</p>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95442</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95442</guid>
		<description>Globalvillage:

"But those South Africans who go to Korea to teach English are unlikely to contribute to the positive development of their own nation. They are unlikely to ever return to SA, but will rather move on to third countries. Or so the statistical evidence shows." (my own statement)

"Who decreed that foreign teachers of English in Korea have to contribute to the development of their own nation?" (your comment)

Nobody at all. This statement of mine was a refutation of Sumo294's comment who seems to be implying that South Africans should be preferred to Scandinavians because this might somehow further the development of the African continent. While I believe that the development of Africa is indeed a goal of the utmost importance I do not believe it can be achieved in this way.

I agree with your other observations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Globalvillage:</p>
<p>&#8220;But those South Africans who go to Korea to teach English are unlikely to contribute to the positive development of their own nation. They are unlikely to ever return to SA, but will rather move on to third countries. Or so the statistical evidence shows.&#8221; (my own statement)</p>
<p>&#8220;Who decreed that foreign teachers of English in Korea have to contribute to the development of their own nation?&#8221; (your comment)</p>
<p>Nobody at all. This statement of mine was a refutation of Sumo294&#8217;s comment who seems to be implying that South Africans should be preferred to Scandinavians because this might somehow further the development of the African continent. While I believe that the development of Africa is indeed a goal of the utmost importance I do not believe it can be achieved in this way.</p>
<p>I agree with your other observations.</p>
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		<title>By: globalvillageidiot</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95438</link>
		<dc:creator>globalvillageidiot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95438</guid>
		<description>"And I’ve met native speakers of Afrikaans (yeah, that’s the correct term, not “African”)"

Yeah, I know.  I was referring to the Korean Immigration officer, who was not referring to Afrikaans, but rather demonstrating his ignorance of Africa by assuming everybody speaks one language throughout the continent.

"As is easy to imagine they have no chance of getting a visa. Whereas, in your view, Quebecers and Afrikaanders should be let into the country no questions asked. That’s simply discriminatory and unjustifiable. Full stop."

I did not say that.  In my post I specified "capable" Scandinavian and Dutch speakers of English.  Many Quebeckers, as you know, wouldn't be up to the task either.  I would be happy to see a far greater emphasis placed on qualifications/certifications for native speakers - or other - teachers of English in Korea.  Ultimately, it should come down to merit, native speaker or not.  Unfortunately, that won't, for the most part anyway, happen here.  

"But those South Africans who go to Korea to teach English are unlikely to contribute to the positive development of their own nation. They are unlikely to ever return to SA, but will rather move on to third countries. Or so the statistical evidence shows."

Can't blame them.  I have plenty of extended family - my grandfather was born in Capetown - who have moved to Canada, Australia, New Zealand or other countries.  Safety would appear to be the main motivation.  Who decreed that foreign teachers of English in Korea have to contribute to teh development of their own nation?  What does that have to do with accent, teaching ability, etc?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And I’ve met native speakers of Afrikaans (yeah, that’s the correct term, not “African”)&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, I know.  I was referring to the Korean Immigration officer, who was not referring to Afrikaans, but rather demonstrating his ignorance of Africa by assuming everybody speaks one language throughout the continent.</p>
<p>&#8220;As is easy to imagine they have no chance of getting a visa. Whereas, in your view, Quebecers and Afrikaanders should be let into the country no questions asked. That’s simply discriminatory and unjustifiable. Full stop.&#8221;</p>
<p>I did not say that.  In my post I specified &#8220;capable&#8221; Scandinavian and Dutch speakers of English.  Many Quebeckers, as you know, wouldn&#8217;t be up to the task either.  I would be happy to see a far greater emphasis placed on qualifications/certifications for native speakers - or other - teachers of English in Korea.  Ultimately, it should come down to merit, native speaker or not.  Unfortunately, that won&#8217;t, for the most part anyway, happen here.  </p>
<p>&#8220;But those South Africans who go to Korea to teach English are unlikely to contribute to the positive development of their own nation. They are unlikely to ever return to SA, but will rather move on to third countries. Or so the statistical evidence shows.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t blame them.  I have plenty of extended family - my grandfather was born in Capetown - who have moved to Canada, Australia, New Zealand or other countries.  Safety would appear to be the main motivation.  Who decreed that foreign teachers of English in Korea have to contribute to teh development of their own nation?  What does that have to do with accent, teaching ability, etc?</p>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95427</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 10:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95427</guid>
		<description>"I’d like to see an immigration officer try that sort of reasoning with me. I’d pull my French language degree out of his hands and slip my English language one on his desk."

BTW, I myself also hold an English language degree (in Law, from a well-reputed British University, and an LL.M. in the course of which I had to pass various examinations set in the French language (in addition to those set in English).

Nevertheless, if I applied for an E-2 (which I have no intention of ever doing) I would be bluntly turned down by the Korean embassy staff. And while I know full well that my English is not good enough for teaching, this unmitigated refusal without any examination of the merits of the case is simply obscene...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’d like to see an immigration officer try that sort of reasoning with me. I’d pull my French language degree out of his hands and slip my English language one on his desk.&#8221;</p>
<p>BTW, I myself also hold an English language degree (in Law, from a well-reputed British University, and an LL.M. in the course of which I had to pass various examinations set in the French language (in addition to those set in English).</p>
<p>Nevertheless, if I applied for an E-2 (which I have no intention of ever doing) I would be bluntly turned down by the Korean embassy staff. And while I know full well that my English is not good enough for teaching, this unmitigated refusal without any examination of the merits of the case is simply obscene&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95423</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95423</guid>
		<description>"You can’t pigeonhole Quebecers as being ‘French’."

I am far from doing this - all visa applications must be examined as to whether the applicant holds the necessary credentials for teaching English or not. For every Quebecer, South African, Dane, Nowegian, Swede, Fin, Dutch or German...

No blanket judgments - instead fair treatment for each and every individual !  No more discrimination !

Anybody here who is opposed to this ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You can’t pigeonhole Quebecers as being ‘French’.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am far from doing this - all visa applications must be examined as to whether the applicant holds the necessary credentials for teaching English or not. For every Quebecer, South African, Dane, Nowegian, Swede, Fin, Dutch or German&#8230;</p>
<p>No blanket judgments - instead fair treatment for each and every individual !  No more discrimination !</p>
<p>Anybody here who is opposed to this ?</p>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95421</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/05/the-south-african-invasion/#comment-95421</guid>
		<description>"... it is sad that the entire GDP of Africa does not equal the GDP of the state of California. One of the countries has got to kick into gear, just one!"

Sumo294:

Yes, that's certainly right, I also wish South Africa well.

But those South Africans who go to Korea to teach English are unlikely to contribute to the positive development of their own nation. They are unlikely to ever return to SA, but will rather move on to third countries. Or so the statistical evidence shows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; it is sad that the entire GDP of Africa does not equal the GDP of the state of California. One of the countries has got to kick into gear, just one!&#8221;</p>
<p>Sumo294:</p>
<p>Yes, that&#8217;s certainly right, I also wish South Africa well.</p>
<p>But those South Africans who go to Korea to teach English are unlikely to contribute to the positive development of their own nation. They are unlikely to ever return to SA, but will rather move on to third countries. Or so the statistical evidence shows.</p>
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