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	<title>Comments on: This Did Not Happen Either</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91506</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91506</guid>
		<description>R. Elgin: It didn't occur to me that you were the OP.  That changes things; but then, it would have been better to have worked your thoughts about Korean textbook revision into the original post.  As it is, what I saw was a comment that was 180 degrees divergent from the original post, then 8 comments riffing on the first comment.  I'll admit that I couldn't be bothered to comment&#8212;I figured someone would come along and get things back on topic&#8212;but beating up on Pawi just because he's Pawi when he was right to point out the whole thread had gone off the rails was uncalled for, hence my response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R. Elgin: It didn&#8217;t occur to me that you were the OP.  That changes things; but then, it would have been better to have worked your thoughts about Korean textbook revision into the original post.  As it is, what I saw was a comment that was 180 degrees divergent from the original post, then 8 comments riffing on the first comment.  I&#8217;ll admit that I couldn&#8217;t be bothered to comment&mdash;I figured someone would come along and get things back on topic&mdash;but beating up on Pawi just because he&#8217;s Pawi when he was right to point out the whole thread had gone off the rails was uncalled for, hence my response.</p>
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		<title>By: shakuhachi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91481</link>
		<dc:creator>shakuhachi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91481</guid>
		<description>This isn't really an issue of revisionism, but of correction. As far as I know (and I don't know a lot about this) the text books said that people that committed suicide were forced to do so by the army. What I have heard is that even more so than a few instances of pressure by army men was the hysterical atmosphere inspired by the controlled media, which made death seem preferable to life under occupation.

Either way, the war time Japanese government does not get let off the hook. If some people here were hoping for an issue where they can say the Japanese are trying to avoid responsibility, this is not the issue.

For people that are interested, there are interviews on Youtube (in Japanese) with  Okinawa residents that actually lived during those times, and they tell of their experiences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t really an issue of revisionism, but of correction. As far as I know (and I don&#8217;t know a lot about this) the text books said that people that committed suicide were forced to do so by the army. What I have heard is that even more so than a few instances of pressure by army men was the hysterical atmosphere inspired by the controlled media, which made death seem preferable to life under occupation.</p>
<p>Either way, the war time Japanese government does not get let off the hook. If some people here were hoping for an issue where they can say the Japanese are trying to avoid responsibility, this is not the issue.</p>
<p>For people that are interested, there are interviews on Youtube (in Japanese) with  Okinawa residents that actually lived during those times, and they tell of their experiences.</p>
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		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91476</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91476</guid>
		<description>sorry if I offended any Ainus.

Sapporo might actually be Ainu land in its entirety.

It might be a case of the Japanese having succesfully taken it off Ainu hands quite permanently.

Now, the world associates Sapporo = Japan.

Sapporo Ichicban.  Sapporo beer.  = = = Japan ramen.  Japan beer.

This could have happenned to Korea.  Certainly could have.

But thank heavens it didn't.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry if I offended any Ainus.</p>
<p>Sapporo might actually be Ainu land in its entirety.</p>
<p>It might be a case of the Japanese having succesfully taken it off Ainu hands quite permanently.</p>
<p>Now, the world associates Sapporo = Japan.</p>
<p>Sapporo Ichicban.  Sapporo beer.  = = = Japan ramen.  Japan beer.</p>
<p>This could have happenned to Korea.  Certainly could have.</p>
<p>But thank heavens it didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91468</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91468</guid>
		<description>i think I'll truly barf if I ever, ever hear of some dipshit argument about how Japan was forced to attack Pearl Harbor because the US was pushing Japan to its limits diplomaticly and economically.

I mean, wasn't that all pretty much self inflicted and well deserved?

I truly don't understand people who write or believe that shit that Japan was so pressed by the US that it had to bomb the US.

All the while with the Japanese rep in DC, serving as a distraction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think I&#8217;ll truly barf if I ever, ever hear of some dipshit argument about how Japan was forced to attack Pearl Harbor because the US was pushing Japan to its limits diplomaticly and economically.</p>
<p>I mean, wasn&#8217;t that all pretty much self inflicted and well deserved?</p>
<p>I truly don&#8217;t understand people who write or believe that shit that Japan was so pressed by the US that it had to bomb the US.</p>
<p>All the while with the Japanese rep in DC, serving as a distraction.</p>
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		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91464</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91464</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Abe, who has led a drive to build a "beautiful nation" proud of its history, 
After the ceremony, the premier told reporters that the textbook issue had been examined by a government council "from a scientific viewpoint".
Abe, Japan's first leader born after World War II, is known for his hawkish views on history and has made it a priority to rewrite the US-imposed postwar pacifist constitution.
In February, he caused international uproar when he said there was no clear evidence that the military directly coerced Korean and other Asian "comfort women" to work in WWII frontline brothels for Japanese troops.
The Okinawan assembly, including supporters of Abe's Liberal Democratic Party, unanimously adopted a statement Friday calling it "an undeniable fact that mass suicides could not have occurred without the involvement of the Japanese military".
Local accounts say Japanese troops forced residents of Okinawa to kill themselves "honourably" rather than face capture by US troops.
Nationalist academics in recent years have insisted that Okinawa's suicide pacts were voluntary and not due to orders by troops from mainland Japan.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Not a bit surprising.  Okinawans only became citizens of the Empire for what, 200 or 300 some years?  Getting the snub by Honshu, Kyushu, and Sapporo isn’t something jaw dropping considering how Ainus also try to hide their origins in this “beautiful nation” proud of its history.

Make no mistake about it, Ponta, Japan, Japanophile in Australia, 

There is nothing beautiful about what Japan did in World War I and II.  I AND II.  Japan got away in I, because they allied right.  In sheer stupidity, they aligned wrong in II, and thus got its due judgment.
Let’s review.

1.	Japan protected East Asia by its military and colonial presence over its neighbors.
2.	Colonial girls tried to thank Japan by putting out for Japanese men.
3.	Suicide was promoted as part of Japanese culture and a code of honour?  Stop watching movies like Letters from Iwo Jima.
4.  Japanese historians are scientific and infallible in their conclusions.  Believe everything they say.  

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070623/wl_asia_afp/japanwwiihistory_070623190008</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Abe, who has led a drive to build a &#8220;beautiful nation&#8221; proud of its history,<br />
After the ceremony, the premier told reporters that the textbook issue had been examined by a government council &#8220;from a scientific viewpoint&#8221;.<br />
Abe, Japan&#8217;s first leader born after World War II, is known for his hawkish views on history and has made it a priority to rewrite the US-imposed postwar pacifist constitution.<br />
In February, he caused international uproar when he said there was no clear evidence that the military directly coerced Korean and other Asian &#8220;comfort women&#8221; to work in WWII frontline brothels for Japanese troops.<br />
The Okinawan assembly, including supporters of Abe&#8217;s Liberal Democratic Party, unanimously adopted a statement Friday calling it &#8220;an undeniable fact that mass suicides could not have occurred without the involvement of the Japanese military&#8221;.<br />
Local accounts say Japanese troops forced residents of Okinawa to kill themselves &#8220;honourably&#8221; rather than face capture by US troops.<br />
Nationalist academics in recent years have insisted that Okinawa&#8217;s suicide pacts were voluntary and not due to orders by troops from mainland Japan.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not a bit surprising.  Okinawans only became citizens of the Empire for what, 200 or 300 some years?  Getting the snub by Honshu, Kyushu, and Sapporo isn’t something jaw dropping considering how Ainus also try to hide their origins in this “beautiful nation” proud of its history.</p>
<p>Make no mistake about it, Ponta, Japan, Japanophile in Australia, </p>
<p>There is nothing beautiful about what Japan did in World War I and II.  I AND II.  Japan got away in I, because they allied right.  In sheer stupidity, they aligned wrong in II, and thus got its due judgment.<br />
Let’s review.</p>
<p>1.	Japan protected East Asia by its military and colonial presence over its neighbors.<br />
2.	Colonial girls tried to thank Japan by putting out for Japanese men.<br />
3.	Suicide was promoted as part of Japanese culture and a code of honour?  Stop watching movies like Letters from Iwo Jima.<br />
4.  Japanese historians are scientific and infallible in their conclusions.  Believe everything they say.  </p>
<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070623/wl_asia_afp/japanwwiihistory_070623190008" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20.....0623190008</a></p>
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		<title>By: pawikirogi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91285</link>
		<dc:creator>pawikirogi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 07:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91285</guid>
		<description>'Heaven help me, Pawi’s often a troll, but he actually does have a point.' 

you may find yourself saying that more often than you might like. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Heaven help me, Pawi’s often a troll, but he actually does have a point.&#8217; </p>
<p>you may find yourself saying that more often than you might like. <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: oranckay</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91277</link>
		<dc:creator>oranckay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 06:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91277</guid>
		<description>[The fun part is that responding to off topic is considered as inappropriate as off topic comments. If something's off topic, just ignore! It takes two to derail a thread.]

What I find telling about the attempt to revise what the overwhelming majority of Japanese youth would be taught is that it happens to be about Okinawa. I wonder if it isn't unintended revelation by ultra-rightists that they acknowledge Okinawa is occupied, or at least exploited, territory. It's a colony, and so you can get away with violating it all over again in the history books, like Ainu lands, Korea, China. Guilt about colonial past requires that you deny and glorify, and it's hard to do that with your majority constituents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[The fun part is that responding to off topic is considered as inappropriate as off topic comments. If something's off topic, just ignore! It takes two to derail a thread.]</p>
<p>What I find telling about the attempt to revise what the overwhelming majority of Japanese youth would be taught is that it happens to be about Okinawa. I wonder if it isn&#8217;t unintended revelation by ultra-rightists that they acknowledge Okinawa is occupied, or at least exploited, territory. It&#8217;s a colony, and so you can get away with violating it all over again in the history books, like Ainu lands, Korea, China. Guilt about colonial past requires that you deny and glorify, and it&#8217;s hard to do that with your majority constituents.</p>
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		<title>By: R. Elgin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91138</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Elgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91138</guid>
		<description>Upon reconsideration, my first comment is off-topic. 

As I entered the initial posting on the Okinawans concerns, I was immediately struck by the question "how is what the Japanese Government is attempting to do there any different from what has been done by ideologues here, in Korea?", thus my follow up comment (after-thought).  I apologize for doing such a naughty thing.  (Beat me with a wet sock please.)

I should have asked the question from the beginning, but, I was hoping others might discuss the growing incidents of historical revisionism in China, Korea and Japan and the context of these revisions.  How are these occurrences different and how are they similar?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Upon reconsideration, my first comment is off-topic. </p>
<p>As I entered the initial posting on the Okinawans concerns, I was immediately struck by the question &#8220;how is what the Japanese Government is attempting to do there any different from what has been done by ideologues here, in Korea?&#8221;, thus my follow up comment (after-thought).  I apologize for doing such a naughty thing.  (Beat me with a wet sock please.)</p>
<p>I should have asked the question from the beginning, but, I was hoping others might discuss the growing incidents of historical revisionism in China, Korea and Japan and the context of these revisions.  How are these occurrences different and how are they similar?</p>
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		<title>By: Maddlew</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91137</link>
		<dc:creator>Maddlew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91137</guid>
		<description>I, also, have to side with Pawi. I kept thinking I had linked to the wrong thread. I'm interested in finding the rationale behind the Japanese decision. I see none except in conjunction with the other denials of comfort women and Nanjing, Japan is slowly trying to erase all involvement in WWII. 
What was Japan doing in the early to mid twentieth century? Oooohhh....nothing.
Maybe an open thread is in order here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, also, have to side with Pawi. I kept thinking I had linked to the wrong thread. I&#8217;m interested in finding the rationale behind the Japanese decision. I see none except in conjunction with the other denials of comfort women and Nanjing, Japan is slowly trying to erase all involvement in WWII.<br />
What was Japan doing in the early to mid twentieth century? Oooohhh&#8230;.nothing.<br />
Maybe an open thread is in order here?</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91005</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/22/this-did-not-happen-either/#comment-91005</guid>
		<description>Sewing,

Exactly!  I don't mind discussing that issue about Korean textbooks....but what the heck did that have to do with Okinawa??  And why did Pawi get nailed for addressing this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sewing,</p>
<p>Exactly!  I don&#8217;t mind discussing that issue about Korean textbooks&#8230;.but what the heck did that have to do with Okinawa??  And why did Pawi get nailed for addressing this?</p>
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