A group of Japanese lawmakers took out a full-paid ad in the WaPo [the Australian] yesterday to present, ahem, “the facts” about the comfort women, namely, that “no historical document has ever been found by historians or research organisations that positively demonstrates that women were forced against their will into prostitution by the Japanese army,” “the ianfu (comfort women) who were embedded (cute choice of words) with the Japanese army were not, as is commonly reported, ’sex slaves’,” and that many of the women made more money than field officers and “even generals.”
If you’ve got the advert, I’d be keen to take a look at it.
UPDATE: Occidentalism has posted a large image of the ad, but it’s still difficult to read. Couldn’t help but notice this part from Fact 5, however:
They were working under a system of licensed prostitution that was commonplace around the world at the time. Many of the women, in fact, earned incomes far in excess of what were paid to field officers and even generals (as reported by the United States Office of War Information, Psychological Warfare Team Attached to US Army Forces, India-Burma Theater APO 689) and there are many testimonies attesting to the fact that they were well treated.
No word on when the lawmakers will run their next ad in the WaPo, “The Bridge over the River Kwai: A Model for Management-Labor Harmony in the 21st Century.”
125 Comments
way to go. Way to start a shirt storm.
They’ll be eating it by the end of the month, and be putting out another vague apology, that would have been better off not even said.
More money than generals. Equating their ill acts to practices around the world.
Who’s gonna believe that?
So, what’s the deal with the Kimono.
Is that a one string pull away from a blanket and a pillow, or what?
I’m sure the reluctant to answer Japanese on this board will answer it here.
did German doctors examine prostitutes from France servicing them somewhere in southern Russia?
did US doctors examine prostitutes from Cuba servicing them somewhere in the Phillipines?
No army at the time were dragging along their colonial women. Especially not to the front lines.
A prostitute made more money than a general.
Stretching that to the max, wouldn’t it be spent the same way how prostitutes spend it ALL these days? I’ll let you think about that one.
I’ve read speculation that the reason a woman’s hanbok is so high-waisted was to easily hide illegitimate pregnancies.
stupid move on the part of the lawmakers, particularly using clinical words like “embedded”. It’ll just make them look callous. I agree with much of what they say - the women weren’t “sex slaves”, they were prostitutes, sometimes even rounded up by Koreans. But at the end of the day the root of the problem was Japan’s invasion of Korea. They can never absolve themselves of that.
Then again…
http://www.smh.com.au/news/nat.....50424.html
The only pic of the ad i can find is here
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....50011.html
Although painful reminder and a completely dispicable move by the Japaense gov, hopefully this will inform average Americans. With issue of this magnitude no average Joe american is going to take this at face value.
May I ask the reasoning of almost everyone here equating comfort women = prostitutes? I would like to see the evidences before I say anything about it.
From a guy who was decrying generalizations on another thread, bumfromkorea, this is a bit of a whopper.
By my count, wjk’s taking issue with the prostitution characterization, and estebanko seems to be also. hoju_saram agrees with it. and dogbertt is taking issue with wjk’s kimono trollbait. Where you get “almost everyone here equating comfort women = prostitutes” from that is mystifying to me.
If it sounded like a generalization, then my apologies. I was simply looking through past issues of comfort women and was observing the frequencies.
Nevertheless, I would like to know the evidences before I say anything.
“I’ve read speculation that the reason a woman’s hanbok is so high-waisted was to easily hide illegitimate pregnancies.”
Well, not always. The kind of hanbok common folk wore sometimes left little to the imagination.
bumfromkorea — I don’t equate the comfort women with prostitution. I think there’s a lot of bullshit flying on both sides of the East Sea on this issue (both sides seem to have something to hide), but I definitely don’t equate the comfort women with prostitutes. And while I haven’t been able to read the whole ad yet, the parts I have read make me sick. Or more precisely, they would make me sick if I hadn’t read them all before.
The full size ad has been made available at—wait for it—Occidentalism. You can see it here:
http://www.occidentalism.org/w.....hefact.jpg
Incidentally, I followed the link in the ad and found myself at a website that’s also playing revisionist games with the Rape of Nanking. So it looks like that’s the kind of “scholarship” we’re looking at to back up this ad.
Oh I was in no way implying that you had equated comfort women to prostitutes. I was looking for evidences from the side that does equate the two, so that I have heard the both sides of the argument. It was a poor wording by my part, and I once again apologize.
I wish Robert Koehler would, for once, refute the evidence the Japanese provide with more than just silly “ahem” statements. Just because Robert Koehler “thinks” a certain way about a certain issue may mean something to some people, but it no longer means crap to me, especially when the issue involves Japan.
I “think” hanbok-clad Robert Koehler should stick to taking pictures of Korean temples and writing about Korean food since he seems to have a phobia when it comes to dealing controverial issues between Korean and Japan.
Anyway, at least, the readers of The Marmot’s Hole know where to go for some good Korean food and a nice day tour.
Hi Gerry, hows the new job?
#15, Another county heard from.
My loss, I guess.
As opposed to what, the upteenth post about why Dokdo is Japanese?
Well, thank God the blogosphere has sites like Occidentalism, then. I mean, where else would we get the lowdown on the burning issues of the day?
Matt has scooped you a few times, hasn’t he.
Poop scoop.
Let’s see…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01801.html
#21 - If that happened, it was wrong. If the US occupying authority condoned it, that was wrong. It’s not germane to the topic at hand. What I suspect is that you’re peddling the tired old tu quoque logical fallacy: “America did it too, you’re no better, so shut up!” That shit doesn’t fly; that’s why it’s called a fallacy. Wrong is wrong, no matter who did it.
Licensed prostitution and sexual slavery are two different isssues, yet newspapers like the “Washington Post” cannot resist the urge to use the word “enslavement.” The word just sells more papers, I guess. If they are not two separate issues, then wouldn’t that mean the Dutch government is also supporting sexual slavery?
American GIs and prostitutes go together like bread and butter, and that has always been the case, as far as I know. Americans had their prostitutes in World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and they still have them today.
It bothers me when I hear Koreans hypocritically criticize Japan’s “Comfort Women” system without mentioning their own, but it really pisses me off to hear fellow Americans act so self-righteous in this regard.
Robert Koehler said that the ad made him sick, yet I remember when prostitutes and prostitution used to be a favorite topic of his blog. I wonder what it is about the ad that made him sick?
gbevers wrote:
‘I “think” hanbok-clad Robert Koehler should stick to taking pictures of Korean temples and writing about Korean food since he seems to have a phobia when it comes to dealing controverial issues between Korean and Japan.’
Robert wrote:
“As opposed to what, the upteenth post about why Dokdo is Japanese?”
My thoughts exactly. And not objective analysis at all either by gbevers; it’s presenting of SOME facts….along with his very biased, and anti-Korean, viewpoint.
Anyway, the organization of which I am one participant, will continue to help push this issue in Congress. Japan did do something wrong, and for it to categorically call the comfort women “prostitutes” only makes the right-wing Japanese in power look sillier to the rest of the world.
Gerry,
I think most folks see an unambiguous line between those who choose to be prostitutes, and those who do/did not choose to have sex with X number of men per day but had to anyway. But some just won’t see the difference. Yelling it louder and more often won’t change that, for the Koreans or you.
“As opposed to what, the upteenth post about why Dokdo is Japanese?”
That’s not fair, Gerry’s partner in intellectual crime also writes racist shit about immigrants in Australia.
From the ad:
That’s what made me sick.
Yes, Gerry Bevers. Korea had its own “comfort women” system. Arguably with human trafficking it still does. The US probably took advantage of the Japanese and Korean ones. Are the Koreans and Americans being hypocritical, Gerry Bevers? Yes, and about more than just the comfort women. Tell us something we don’t know, Gerry Bevers.
BTW, Gerry Bevers, I’m sorry you got canned from your job for your Dokdo posts. I really am. But don’t come on to my blog with a fucking attitude. I don’t get pissy on Occidentalism. Don’t get pissy with me here.
JK (aka BFK),
So you are involved in an organization fighting for the rights of Korea’s “comfort women”? Well, that is very interesting. How are the pickings among the members of your organization?
Aren’t you the one who used to take sexual advantage of Korean women while you were working as a “financial analyst” here in Korea and then brag about your conquests, in detail, on the Korea Times forum?
Correct me if I am wrong.
Someone let the cage door open at Occidentalism and now the monkey’s throwing shit around the blogosphere. Somone call VANK.
I think what this does, is Japan is ending up playing straight into Korea’s hands. This only shows how insincere and utterly meaningless of the past ‘apologies’ that weren’t made by Japan. Behind Korea’s anger, lies a smothering of a laugh. Next time someone argues Japan apologized for the hundredth time, just show them this development which was all but predictable from the beginning. It’s like North Korea promising to stop their nuclear program in return for aid.
And I, for one, wish Gerry Bevers would, for once, stifle his knee-jerk reflex to take the Japanese side in any Korea-Japan dispute.
The “evidence” which he challenges Robert Koehler to refute comes from, among other places, the “Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact,” whose website you can find (if you like to laugh or cry) at http://www.sdh-fact.com. Besides their yeoman work in showing that the comfort women weren’t coerced (after all, who WOULDN’T let a couple hundred soldiers run a train on them if the price was right?), they’re also making great historical contributions like “proving” that the hundreds of photos—as well as eyewitness testimony—that speak of the Rape of Nanking are “fabrications.” Lovely. The Holocaust deniers call their tripe “fact” too.
The Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (sic) is nothing but a Japanese version of VANK—albeit perhaps more nefarious. But since it’s on the east side of the East Sea, to Bevers it’s an unimpeachable source. And that says a lot.
Robert,
Did they get the address wrong for the Psychological Warfare Team Attached to US Army Forces, India-Burma?
I don’t mean to be pissy, but I just wish you would defend your “ahem” statements because people may get the impression you have some evidence that will refute what the Japanese wrote.
VT videam,
I know very little about Japan’s “comfort women,” and I know nothing about the organization to which you linked, but I just get tired of people writing as if they have all the facts without presenting any evidence.
I do not know about the women in the Philippines and other places, but I am suspicious of any accusations about Japan’s “comfort women” system that comes out of Korea because I have seen how far Koreans are willing to stretch the truth to paint Japan in as bad a light as possible.
By the way, I also noticed that you failed provide any evidence to refute what was said in the newspaper ad.
Mr. Bevers, I also know very little about Japan’s “comfort women.” But I do know that an organization that engages in historical revisionism is not worthy of belief, and a newspaper ad that prominently features a link to such an organization stretches its credibility beyond what I’m willing to entertain.
See, I subscribe to a time-tested old axiom: “Consider the source.”
Then again, apparently you do too, but with a corollary: “Japanese source = truth.”
Ut videam,
There is nothing wrong with historical revisionism if it is presenting evidence that exposes historical falsehoods. Since you also admit that you know very little about Japan’s “comfort women” system, how can you criticize the organization to which you linked if you have nothing to refute the evidence they present? In other words, how can you consider the source when you know nothing of what they are talking about?
“Japanese source = truth.”
Come to think of it, I’ve never read Mr. Bevers questioning any source coming from Japan, not one, ever.
PS: I just wonder how Mr.Bevers is doing these days since he was canned by his university. It certainly looks as though Mr.Bevers was hired by another school in Korea.
Mr. Bevers,
I read enough to know that their dismissals of the photographic evidence of the Rape of Nanking are facile. They are not scholarship worthy of the name. Their “findings” are of the same caliber as those of the Holocaust deniers, whom they also resemble in their attempts to revise down the casualty figures of their respective favorite atrocities by an order of magnitude or better.
So yeah. I may not be a comfort women expert, but I’ve smelled enough bullshit to be able to identify it. As Toucan Sam used to say, “Follow your nose, it always knows!”
“So you are involved in an organization fighting for the rights of Korea’s “comfort women”? Well, that is very interesting. How are the pickings among the members of your organization? ”
Yep. We’ve made good contributions….and will continue to do so. And apparently, our efforts, along with many others, are working since it’s got right-wingers in Japan in a frenzy, I am happy to say. Yourself as well.
“Aren’t you the one who used to take sexual advantage of Korean women while you were working as a “financial analyst” here in Korea and then brag about your conquests, in detail, on the Korea Times forum? ”
Hm. I never ONCE took sexual advantage of anyone….EVER. I have participated in consensual sex with women, which is QUITE different from “taking sexual advantage” of someone. But, uh, why your fascination with my personal life? Your social life so dull? The girls in Korea still saying no to you? Awww….
Regarding my comment in #38: I shouldn’t have made the last personal sentence about gbevers regarding his social life, but the rest of my comment stands since he made a serious (and false) charge against me.
JK,
I have no interest, whatsoever, in your sexual life, but you used to constantly write about it in detail on the Korea Times forum, talking in a degrading fashion about the women you had had in your office, in your Korean language class, and other places. I remember your bragging one time about having sex with one of your Korean language classmates from Autralia, who you said was pretty but who you said smelled bad down, though you used different language.
I also remember people asking you not to talk about your personal sexual life on the forum, but you continued to do so, anyway. No one was interested in your personal sexual life except you.
Anyway, I just find it strange that someone like you are now fighting for the rights of Korea’s “comfort women.”
gbevers,
This coming from a guy who used to post comments and moan about how his wife left him…and how he would sing along to “You Lost That Loving Feeling”….and who used online blogs at the Korea Times and Korea Herald to invite people to his own birthday parties….because none of his offline friends would show up. You shared your views of life at the time….I shared mine. I hope we’ve both moved on since 1999.
This beats the cat fight I saw in Insa Dong tonight hands down! rahw!!rahw! hiss! hiss!
As for my comments about Australian women, yes, I made that comment at Occidentalism’s page to show that negative stereotyping of a whole race is wrong. One of the writers wrote extensively about how he hooked up with two Korean girls implying that Korean girls were somehow easy. I told him to cool it with the racial generalizing about Koreans, since I could do the same about Australian women based on my own personal experience at a Korean language school in Korea. Of course, he, and you, chose to use that to quote me out of context that somehow I was being a racist against Australians when I merely wrote it is a response to HIS negative generalizing about Korean women (based on his limited experience).
Let’s not be deceptive, shall we, gbevers?
JK,
I never invited anyone to a birthday party, and I don’t remember moaning, but I do remember writing once that I used to sang, “You’ve Lost That Loving Feeling” to my ex-wife.
Now, as you say, let’s move on.
Agreed, bevers, let’s move on.
But I did not lie and stand by what I said before because I remember those things you wrote….birthdays and all.
Anyway, glad we’ve moved on.
Who cares about comfort women when you have Gucci?
“I heard that some kids in Gangnam area use Gucci erasers and Hermes pencils which cost more than 100,000 won. But I know that I am not as rich as them. Knowing that I can’t afford to buy the real thing, I just go for the copy, a good one,” she said. “I like bags with large letters of luxury brand names since they can be recognized well by others.”
(15 year old Korean student)
For the full article check out the Korea Times
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww....._4806.html
gbevers,
I agree with you. What is bygone is bygone.
Forgeddaboutit!
The republic of Korea must embrace Japan. It has no other choice when China is getting stronger everyday and NK may start aggression toward SK or Japan anyday.
These issues are more than fifty years old. Nobody really knows the essence of these comfort women. Were they coerced or not? Nobody knows.
Even though I hate to join gbevers and side with Japanese hypos, they may be telling the truth. Under the Japanese rule, many Koreans were starving, especially near the end of WWII. It is not strange that some women offered their bodies for food and money.
Those were different times. One cannot judge them with present day value system.
Frequently these women were “enticed” by a pimp for the promise of good paying job and sold to the Japanese Army. Once they got to the army base, they got trapped. However, they might not have minded.
These women were not from good family. Just like hookers of modern times, they may have enjoyed their “job”. They had men and made money on the side. That might have been a better alternative to working like a dog in a farm and getting beaten by a drunken hubbie who had a mistress on the side.
Sorry to be brutal like this, but I have to be honest. I like to be fair to both sides.
All these anti-Japan stuffs are getting popular in Washington right now because the Chinese money have arrived.
Only five years ago, the Japanese money ruled. If you doubt this, just look at how Japanese cars creaming American ones despite the heavy protests from Detroit.
However, now the Chinese money is winning.
Expect more of these anti-Japan propaganda to hit the media and politics in coming days. Republicans traditionally take their vitamins from Japanese cars while Democrates frequently eat at Chinese restaurants. Democrates are supposedly on the roll and that may be why all these anti-Japan stuffs are surfacing on the media.
Money rules.
Is it true that Gerry Bevers got canned from his job for his Dokdo posts? If so, I feel sorry for Gerry. Koreans should not have done that. Gerry has a right to speak his mind.
Korea should not be like Nazi Germany.
Cool down!
Too much nationalism envolved on both of the east side of the Japanese sea (oh my bad, east side of the “east sea” of course) and the west side of the East sea (F**k, west side of the “Japanese sea” of course).
Although Japan has is resposible about the system of that days, its no that simple to divide the sins between nationalities.
Its rather between man and women.
Sorry its Friday night and I am a little bit drunk.Sorry for my bad grammars.
Cheers!!
Cheers, tomojiro. Believe me, I wish I could drink now, too.
Unfortunately, it’s 12:15 pm on the east coast of the US now.
http://www.latimes.com/news/op.....5385.story
There would be only hundred of elderly survivors of the “comfort women” system who were already prostitutes, had been sold into bondage by their families, or many of others who had been kidnapped, enslaved and raped. And even the conscientious Imperial Japanese Army are elderly. Not much time left.
So Japan…Just keep your voice only for 2, 3, 5 or maybe 10 more years, no more testimony from victims speaking out about their experiences.
No evidence, No testimony, and Nothings happened.
Ah, good. Someone who does believe comfort women (at least those from Korea) are prostitutes. Mr. Bevers, can I have the evidences (hopefully on the web… and free (college kid so poor!) since Arizona State University’s library is… not so extensive as it should be) that you are forming your opinion from?
bumfromkorea
Japan’s Comfort Women:Yuki Tanaka (which the US congressional reseach cits to support its paper)
Soh, Chung-Hee
Women’s Sexual Labor and State in Korean History
Journal of Women’s History - Volume 15, Number 4, Winter 2004, pp. 170-177
Sex Among Allies
by Katharine H. S. Moon
@Japan’s Comfort Women:Yuki Tanaka
From what I’ve gathered from his writing, he’s claiming that for the most part, there were coercion, deception, and intimidation involved with the recruitment and he confirms the brutality of the comfort women system (and chastises Allied powers for not identifying it as war crimes at the time). No one is arguing that there were minute number of prostitutes among those recruited for Comfort Women, but saying “many” or “almost all” of comfort women were prostitutes is an intellectual dishonesty.
I’m not so sure what Dr. Soh’s article does for the argument. She argues that historical Korean masculine-central sentiments contributed to the existence of the comfort women (which in my opinion is not quite accurate, as masculine-central sentiments and objectifying women was predominant in most culture in the time periods she was discussing), but it is made quite clear that she does not equate comfort women to prostitutes, especially with the first few paragraphs.
Dr. Moon’s article does not help much either. Her discussion involves the infamous prostitution camps around military bases, and though debt-bondage system was a horrible way to keep the poverty-stricken girls, one cannot equate the brutality of comfort women to that. Indeed, Dr. Moon repeated refers to Comfort women as “sexual slavery” rather than prostitution in the mentioned article.
Unfortunately, it’ll be a while before I learn Japanese (though one day I intend to). gotta finish French first ^_^;
Why is everyone ignoring hoju-saram’s find?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/nat.....50424.html
“Eighty-four-year-old Jan Ruff O’Herne was 19 when she was seized from a prisoner of war camp in Indonesia and forced into a brothel to become one of hundreds of thousands of so-called “comfort women”.
Ms O’Herne, from Adelaide, said she was “raped day and night” by Japanese soldiers for three months during the war.”
So we have
1. Ms O’Herne’s testimony (and many others)
2. Japanese lawmaker’s “facts”? - no historical document has ever been found by historians or research organisations that positively demonstrates that women were forced against their will into prostitution by the Japanese army
So some people are so stupid that they believe - the inability to FIND (this does not even mean they do not exist) documentary evidence = “it never happened”?
Japanese are very smart, they state the above “fact” with the knowledge that the likes of gbevers will interpret it as “it never happened”. No documents = it never happened. Very smart.
As for Ms O’Herne, she testified at war tribunal in Indonesia after the war, as a result, Japanese officers and brokers were punished;One is hanged dead.
I think the ad above made that point clear.
And,
bumfromkorea
Yuki Tanaka admits brutality of the comfort women system as well as brothels systems by allies.
There is no secret that there was deceptions involved and Japan was responsible for regulating it insufficiently as the Ad above made the point
clear.
bumfromkorea wrote
So I am asking how to call it.Surely “the western whore” as Korean people call them does not seem to be appropriate.
My dear commenters,
Sorry to jump in here all of a sudden in my capacity as “comment sheriff”/comment moderator, but I wouldn’t even know where to start on the comments here so far without carpet bombing them all and hope no one is too offended about any collateral damage. But we’re going to have to be nice from here on in or, sadly, that is exactly what is going to have to happen. Thank you for your cooperation.
/oranckay (talk to me at guessthispart@fastmail.jp)
ponta, please post the orignal link to that article.
@ Ponta
Perhaps you misunderstood my position. Prostitute imply free will to trade sexual activities for profit; if one’s free will is taken away and the person is forced to commit sexual activities, one is referred to as a sex slave.
My opinion is that great majority of the comfort women were sex slaves, rather than prostitutes. It was wrong to have mistreated the returnee (Hwanyang Nyun sentiment, so to speak), and no doubt collaborators were involved with recruitment. But just as the Jewish police does not convict the Jewish people of what had happened, Korean collaborators does not make Koreans responsible for what had happened. (As victims of imperialism all have their share of collaborators within)
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bumfromkorea
I don’t really care if you call them “sex slave” if you are ready to call the Korean women vicimized of the same kind in Korea after the liberation.
My point is that they are not different from “comfort women” under Japanese rule:Both are the victims, and they were recruited in the same way.
I think Feminists like Yuki tanka and others are willing to accept it. I think it is only biased political force that just focuses on Japan.
And Japan apologized several times.
(From MOFA)
Let’s move on to the next stage.
G1
you can see the books by Soh, and Katharine H. S. Moonon online library.
As for the book, you have to go to the
large library.
As for the article on Ms O’Herne,
http://findarticles.com/p/arti....._n18771347
As for the fact other imformation, I relied on Japanese newspaper, which in turn refers to Yoshimi’s book–Yoshimi and Hata is two representative reserachers on the subject.
Thank you.
.
why don’t you just serve the truth that you are SURE of, instead of running around with stuff you aren’t even that sure of?
Answer the question about the Kimono.
Why are even granny’s carrying pillows on their backs?
Seriously, is that a pillow?
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Thanks ponta, at least that article didn’t deny coersion.
If your neighbour raped your daughter, and then apolises, and then later tells others “Oh, it wasn’t rape, it was consensual, actually I paid her for it. As a matter of fact there isn’t any evidence other than her own words that she was forced to do anything”. Would you take that apology seriously?
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The Washington Post must have some kind of “threshold” of truth for even its ads. Although I pretty viscerally disagree with Gerry B. on this issue, I think someone has to explain why they chose to run the ad if its truth-value is nil.
PS: Robert runs his blog in a very fair and even manner, your ad hominem attacks on him are bad form.
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G1
Thanks.
Japanese historians as well as Korean feminists agree that the most of women enter into comfort station, camp brothels, etc out of poverty.
Japanese historians do not deny that there were rapes cases just as Korean feminists do not deny there were cases of rapes with the woman who worked as “sex slave” prositutes, whatever, for the Korean troop and the UN troop after the liberation.. They do not deny either there were cases where deceptions were involoved.
Japan was responsible for regulating such illegal brokers, and brothel owners insufficiently.
The ad above also admit that Japanese police regulated it.
The ad also admits the women suffered severe hardship.
Japan apologized several times for that.
I am sorry, but I am not sure what you are trying to say by this example.
Are you trying to say that though Korean troop raped Korean women, recruited the women in the same way as Japan did but they say and Korean people say that without any apology, they pretend that it was consensual, in addition to despising them, calling them “western whore”, while blaming others who have already apologized several times, that is not fair,—Is that what you are trying to say?
Let me add a few words.
As for the payment under Japanese rule, let me quote Tanaka.
I am not sure many comfort women earned
a lot of money or not. But there was a case where a former comfort women sued Japanese government to return the money she earned while she was a comfort women. The amount of money she earned surely surpassed the money the general could earn.
Yuki Tanaka said she would be exceptional cases,
Hata says it depends on where the women
worked.
As I wrote elsewhere, I think the living conditions for comfort women differed from place to place.
The comfort women in the US document
http://www.exordio.com/1939-19.....-orig.html
seems to have had relatively free lives, but it is imaginable in other cases the women suffered severe hardships.
The several chief cabinet of the secret and PMs expressed its apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.
Why not move on to the next stage?
Probably there are expat who are made sick for the fact there are Korean women who haven’t have any apologies yet by Korean government.
Ponta, have you seen the sign on the ad?
An all-star cast of historical revisionists.
I hate to agree with pawikirogi, but he is right.
These was an unsuccessful miserable suicide attack by historical revisionists.
And they are thinking that they are doing a favor for Japan.
They are just playing exactly what Korean and Chinese ultranationalists want.
They are playing the role of the “never apologising, history distorting, dangerous Japanese”.
Or are they paid by VANK and the chinese people’s army?
whoa, carpet-bombed indeed.
Ponta, the issue I’m talking about is the matter of free will by the women that is implied in the naming of the women. Once again, prostitution implies free will rather than forced (as it is a profession (oldest of its kind)), and that’s my main “beef” with calling the women prostitutes. And at least in my opinion, wordings do matter.
The apologies, in my eyes, hold little weight when something like this ad happens every other year or so (though usually it’s some official mouthing off… but there’s the problem… an official). Suppose that A punched B, and A apologized to B for it. Later, A goes around and say “B is a wuss for letting me hit him.” B confronts him about it and A apologizes. A goes around again and say “B deserved it”. B confronts him again, and A apologizes.. again. Should B “move on” when A is so… incessant on the issue? I think that, if A wants the apologies to be taken seriously, A should not contradict the very thing he apologized for.
(Oh, and it’s not generalization. Government officials are representatives of his or her country, and should be held responsible for what they say)
Just a point of interest everyone… what’s a VANK?
And why is the kimono a pillow? (Isn’t it… a clothing?)
For anyone who has not read this:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp.....304a1.html
Tomojiro
I for one doubt if the ad was a good idea.
But I am not sure if they are revisionists as to the issue of the comfort women.
As you know, at first the controversy was whether physical cohesion was involved in recruitment.
There was a testimony by Yoshida, which turned out to be false.
And there was no document to show it.
Out of 20 testimonies examined 4 women claimed they were forcibly recruited.
One woman said she was sold by her father.
The other was the one who sued Japanese
government to returned the enormous amount of money she earned I mentioned above.
Still others said they worked in the comfort stations where there was no military comfort station.
Some people shed doubt on their testimony.
I for one am not sure if they are reliable or not.
Seeing there is little evidence, proponents of “coercive recruitment” school “revised ” the definition, they defined it as the case the women worked against their will. That worked well. I am sure many of them worked against their will. For that matter I am not sure if many of prostitutes are not working against their will.
In this sense I don’t know which is “revisionist”
For sure there were cases of rapes in Philippines and in China and there were cases where woman were forced like O’Herne in Indonesia, but that was the case where the brothels was closed by Japanese military and the brokers and officers were punished at war tribunal.
bumfromkorea
As I said I for one do not care if people call them “sex slave” or not.
I am asking what to call.
According to Soh, Chung-Hee
To reforce it, for those who can read Korean.
And even after the “liberation”
(Sex Among Allies)
I think “Korean sex slave under Japanese rule and under Korea rule deserves apology.
Japan apologized several times.
Even the ad in question says.
>French Quarter
I am not denying about unit 731, nor the nanjing massacre nor the comfort women.
But forget about Kaneko. He is a “proffessional” confessor. He earns money with his “confession”.
I have no doubt if someone will advocate a theory that there was a kind of Auschwitz in colonial Korea, that he will be willing to “confess” that he pushed the button of the gas chamber.
Believe me, here in Japan, both “left sides” and “right side” uses very dirty methods when it comes to war time criminals.
This issue was dealt with here a few months back. If I’m not mistaken, few denied the Japanese military having any less than an indirect involvement in mass prostitution/slavery here and elsewhere in Asia, yet most were willing to admit that Korean brokers - or even families of the women in question - played a role in some cases. What has changed since the last debate?
As I posted a while back, even if the Japanese military authorities did not have a direct involvement in organizing the system - which seems to be very much in debare - ir happened on their administrative watch and involved their soldiers. This doesn’t mean that Korean collaborators should get a pass, but just that revisionist Japanese shouldn’t try to sneak their way out of their responsibility for what they did to other countries’ women during WWII.
Sheriff,
Please delete #55.
Thanks in advance.
I presume #91 is referring to #56. #55 is fine; #56 is disgusting.
I have found a website that has interesting reads:
http://www.skycitygallery.com/japan/japan.html
Yeah, where’s ‘the decider’ when you need him? #56
stop comparing yours