This was an excellent article from the Chosun Ilbo on the progressive PR manager that promoted Rain into the international limelight and why nationalism is not in the interest of the Korean artist or entertainer. Kudos to him.
-
English Books on Korea... and More!
-
Visit My Brother's Film Review Site
69 Comments
Good luck to Park Jin Young, because he’s going to need it. The fact that his rather tame, vanilla views are considered “bold and provocative” is proof of just how narrow-minded the entire country has become in all things Korean-Wave related.
He better wear a rain-slicker (no pun intended), because he can expect a face full of urine while he’s pissing in the wind trying to speak rationally to ultra-nationalists fueled by dreams of racial superiority and an acute case of number-oneism.
The netizens don’t take kindly to those who point out the sad truth regarding what pathetic suckers Korean consumers are for lapping up the flag-waving marketing and Korea-is-the-greatest media cheerleading like helpless, naive children at Jesus Camp.
If Park isn’t already on their hit-list, he will be soon.
He’s right, but that doesn’t count for much here, does it?
And that’s a helluva first paragraph, iheartblueballs.
iheartblueballs = post of the week
Park was one of the largest pop stars in Korea until he grew up, got married, and then released a pretty darn good album that got very little airplay because he dared to sing about the relationship between love and sexuality in an honest and mature manner. So, yeah, I can see why he’s more interested in artistic integrity than nationalism.
Bravo your life Rain! In a society where you can’t even find a doctor with the balls to attach their name to an article that claims Kimchi isn’t all Koreans think it is, discounting nationalism takes courage. Having reached the point where his success is no longer dependent on the Korean market I guess it is safe for him to take this stand though.
yeah, it’s too bad that Park is an asshole.
His words sounds great now, in retrospect, after Rain has dumped him. The fact is that he controlled every aspect of Rain’s life and in the process created a singer who has no passion.
At a press conference just before embarking on his “world tour”, Rain was asked why he was visiting Southeast Asia before going to tour in the US. His answer? I want to prepare myself more to prepare for the (more) important US market. I wonder how the Singaporeans took that. And then he talked about how he was working hard to develop himself and prepare the Korean music industry so that it would be able to have success overseas. Doesn’t that sound like Korean Wave tripe to you? And keep in mind who coached him for all these years. You guessed it, none other than our “progressive” PR manager, Park.
Progressive my ass. He’s just another opportunist, which in and of itself is not a crime. But let’s not put the guy on a pedastal. In my interactions with him, he was a jerk, through and through.
and by the way…. “excellent” article? well, the theme of it is fine. But i think the poster needs his bullshit meter cleaned. “universities like harvard are rushing to invite him to speak…”??? come on. give me a fucking break.
I find it sublime in that Korean way that it discusses Park’s critizim of being overly nationalist, yet spends most of its time discussing how famous he is around the world.
The article also has the four funniest word combination I have seen in quite a while “Thailand’s answer of Rain”
Like Thailand was racking its brains trying to come up with an awnser for Rain like he was some mortal threat to the country!
I gotta agree with mjw.
One has to question the wisdom of consistently pushing a gay-ish Korean male singer on the American stage for 5 years with continually little success. If there was a market for such a singer, doesn’t Park think some dollar-signs-for-eyes MBA in the American music industry would have pushed one out there?
I own the cd’s Shin Sung Woo 3 & for. I thought he had international possibilities. Attack ass as necessary.
You know, the American music industry has killed themselves because they did not understand that it is music that drives the business and not the other way around. They should have lobbied government for the arts (music) education in public schools because these programs seed the future music listeners that buy the CDs but instead they focused upon business models without any real understanding of what they were doing. Nowadays, industry flacks love to talk about file sharing as being the reason that unit sales are down but that is contrary to research and covers the fact that they ruined their own business by their failure to understand why people buy the music.
The moral of the story is that a quality-driven business model will always win over a purely business-driven model. High production standards do not make for a standard of artistic quality. Music production standards are now such that they can eliminate problems that lay with the artist, for example, there is a bit of software that can correct a singer’s pitch if they sing out of tune. This software is nicknamed the “Brittany”.
Guess where that name came from.
Considering such, Park and others in Korea should focus on quality instead of playing the global “dan-ta-ra” role because quality will win market share when combined with a smart PR approach. Korean culture is rich but the wise businessman should never forget that without a genuine good product that is the result of creative talent, they really have nothing to sell except a slick production and we have enough of that garbage in America, as it is now.
1. Good luck to Park Jin Young, because he’s going to need it. The fact that his rather tame, vanilla views are considered “bold and provocative” is proof of just how narrow-minded the entire country has become in all things Korean-Wave related.
-iheartblueballs
Ah, blueballs, my cute little friend. How are you doing?
Narrowmindedness as a result of nationalism you say? Well, how now! Think about how this phrase relates to your own country’s valiant, but ultimately dumed efforts in Iraq. Instead of coming onto this forum and whimpering about Korean nationalism, I suggest you attack the nationalism in your own country–a nationalism which has cost some 3500 lives and untold billions of dollars in treasure. American exceptionalism indeed!
Aren’t there some protest rallies you should be attending?
2. He better wear a rain-slicker (no pun intended), because he can expect a face full of urine while he’s pissing in the wind trying to speak rationally to ultra-nationalists fueled by dreams of racial superiority and an acute case of number-oneism.
–iheartblueballs
So much profanity, my friend. What’s the matter? Aren’t you capable of making a reasoned argument? Eh, wishful thinking on my part I suppose.
Anyways…
Racial superiority? Again, look to your own country for prime examples of that. Last time I checked, your country still can’t bring itself to treat minorities equally. Your country has far more problems with racism than mine, blueballs, and I suggest you attend to them.
are you drunk?
I don’t care what anyone says, I like R. Elgin, dammit!
“…music …. drives the business and not the other way around.”
Wouldn’t that be nice…
Rain has long hair like thief.
Having mastered the argument of ad hominem, what’s next for YoungRocco? Are we assuming that so long as Korea is always #2 compared the United States regarding social ills, that’s a satisfactory course of development? Doesn’t that conflict with all those “대한민국…일등!!!” commercials?
On next week’s episode, we find out if it’s Japan’s fault “Rain” has been a miserable failure in the US market.
Ease off on Rocco. It’s not easy for us stupid people to come up with anything else but the old ‘But in America it’s worse…’ deflection of any and all criticisms of Corea. Blame our lousy education for that.
But then again, Rocco could just be kyopo who is still angry because some dumb jocks in gym class ridiculed him for having ******. That’s why these types just can’t stay away from these kinds of blogs. Those kinds of episodes will stay with a guy for a long time.
(edited for content)
We’re all dumed!
For a minute there I thought we might be doomed, but then rocco eased my fears with the classic Korean deflection routine we’ve all been bored to death with ad nauseum over the years.
Response to an article about the Korean Wave, Korean nationalism, and its effect on the Korean entertainment industry? Iraq! Hey everybody, look over there in the Middle East. No, no, keep your eyes off the Korean flag-waving douche brigade…that’s it. Just keep yourself focused on Baghdad, regardless of the intended topic.
North Korean nukes? Iraq! Korean Presidential Race? Iraq! Korea-US FTA? Iraq!
Admit it Rocco, you hate the fact that the dirty fucking whiteboys boning “your” women are even allowed to discuss dae han min guk, and worse yet, criticize it. This blog and forums like it drive you batshit insane, because Koreans criticizing Korea is fine, but whitey doing the same gets your 5000-year old panties in a twist and has you on your knees praying for fan death for all the white bread that post their opinions about your beloved super-race.
Rest assured, your sad attempt at changing the topic when faced with painful truths has been tried plenty of times by your intellectual “equals.” pawi, bluejives, bluetranslator, et al…a whole parade of dim-witted knee-jerk apologists have already fallen back on misdirection rather than try to defend the indefensible. For future reference, if you’re going to make a fool of yourself, at least have the decency to be an innovator rather than a lame copycat.
On the plus side, at least you know you’ve got plenty of company on the short bus.
Also, I do believe the key mistake in Rocco’s #3 is the assumption that red white n’ blue corn-fed American racism has its heart in ideas of Anglo racial superiority. If anything, it’s the (kind of, but not truly) opposite- it was a firm conviction in the racial inferiority of others. There’s a pretty distinct difference, and while Korea is pleasant in that its brand of “racial superiority” errs on the side of obnoxious rather than overtly inhumane, it’s still obnoxious.
‘pawi…’ blueballs drags pawi into boring thread
the best course of action is to simply allow you to speak. you may impress your friends but come back to your posts in 5 years. you’re one pissed off cat.
to youngrocco2:
of course, his posts get you angry but look a little deeper and you might be surprised that what you feel for the guy isn’t anger, but rather, sorrow. please take a closer look. ps, i’m not trying to tell you what to do.
as for park jin young, i remember he caused quite a stir for grabbing his buttocks on tv once. i think he’s a good guy. best of luck to him.
and lastly, thank you, iceberg.
For everyone’s information, YoungRocco2 had been quite an entertaining presence at two other blogs, one of them being occidentalism. His trolling and constant defence of crimes and wrongdoings by Koreans, even if it was outright murder, byt “America is in Iraq” or “Japan bombed Pearl Harbor” got a bit too tiring for the administrators so he ended up being banned from both. It’s funny, because I can kind of smell the same fate around the corner here as it seems as though Korean trolls like the likes of Rocco are the type who just can’t resist foaming at the mouth in glee when they see an opportunity to divert from the issue and blame the paltrid pollution of the Han River or the absolute sub-par shit quality of Korean civil engineering on the US involment in Iraq.
However, he is quite entertainig to watch from a third person perspective. Many Korean trolls like him are very interesting to watch.
Park Jin Young makes some good points. I hope Rain will be successful and reach his goals. I doubt he’ll make it “big” in America, but all the best anyway. Racial problems in Korea are FAR worse than in the US. Koreans just can’t accept the truth about themselves so they get all defensive and crap. Well, maybe I’m wrong. Now that I think of it, only white people in the US are voted into office and hold prominent in society. Now I see the truth. Korea is the total opposite of the US in this regard. Korea is the perfect example of an ethnic melting pot AND mosaic. The world can learn from Koreans!!
That is, hold prominent positions in society.
I got Park Jin Young’s CD “Game” for the missus and while it borrows heavily from American R&B he actually understands the genre–unlike “Bi” who is more like the organ grinder’s monkey with no thoughts of his own.
It is strange though that there aren’t some higher-profile Asian music acts in the States now that the Asian population is much larger.
Kyopo rage.
what is with all the hate??
regarding the possible opinion of the general public - a counterpoint has to start somewhere and kudos to Park for stating it. dont you think his comments/opinion will get more traction than some hagwon “i know it all” english teacher.
i really do get a laugh from the some of posters as all they seem to do is complain or criticize. great entertainment.
YoungRocco2 = Rocco Siffredi wannabe = More penis envy?
Right…
Anyway.
How this unfolds would be very interesting to watch. Park’s comments are obviously against the popular sentiments, but at least in the entertainment business he’s the big guy. I don’t think the media can slam him easily considering the amount of influence he wields. (btw… progressive? Come on… his arguments might be, but the dude is not that holy)
I personally think that Bi has little to no chance to succeed in the U.S. (not a big fan myself). And Park is absolutely right; nationalist sentiment is not the way to go in the international marketing. After all, it is called “international”…
I’ve been reading the comments left in this blog, and there seems to be a certain pattern-
1. Koreans = Korean Netizens + Korean Academy owners. Whenever I read Korean this, Korean that… they mostly refers to netizens and academy owners (two groups that the society does not exactly label beneficial). Guys… we’re not just whacked out internet junkies sitting in some PC Bang 4 am in the morning or soulless, cold-blooded cutthroat businesspeople. Yes, our society is generally racist (which is addressed later), but your generalization doesn’t exactly reflect on the society as a whole either. (If I did that where I lived, Americans = crazy racist + sex maniacs… well, the latter part might hold some truth to it ^^)
(Btw, you can call me an apologist all you want. This is what I really think, and not from a knee-jerk reaction caused from Hwabyung (which, according to a lot of people here, every Korean suffers from))
2. Koreans are racist. Yes. We are. The other day, I argued with my parents over 2 hours about why Mexicans are/aren’t inherently lazy and stupid. They won, since the whole “don’t talk back” rule was kinda in the way…
But you know, it hasn’t been that long since Koreans interacted with foreigners as a part of their society. I remember back in 1996, meeting someone not Korean was like meeting a celebrity (I was 9)… Even when I left (1999), the situation was pretty much the same. It hasn’t been that long since we were exposed to the outer world (we were kinda busy with.. you know, econ development, coup, coup, corruption, election, etc.) and the idea of a multicultural society is still a bit strange to us… I mean, the country’s been democratic for less than 20 years (unless you count dictator 1, coup leader 1, coup leader 2, and coup co-leader), and we were socially liberated for less than 10. It’s going to be a while till we adjust to the new setting. Give us some bloody time.
3. Koreans are overly nationalistic. Dear God in heaven yes we are. I watch Korean shows and I squirm every time the MC tries to sneak in some nationalist sentiments in his/her shows. But to that, I leave the quote of Jo Jung Rae, one of my favorite authors:
“… the superpowers will denounce the waves of nationalism in the more feeble countries, comparing the fervent movements with Hitler’s campaign of nationalist expansionism. But there is an error to this logic; we do not have the capabilities to commit to a military campaign that will expand beyond our territories. Then, it is obvious that nationalism in our country (South Korea) isn’t the mindless flag-waving and military marches that the superpowers around us try to paint, but a defensive one against, for instance, the waves of American hegemonic policies and, until 1991, Soviet expansionist policies that will allow us, the Korean people, to exist as a unique beings in this world.”
-Jo Jung Rae, in “Finishing the ‘Han River’
(in continuation of 3…)
I like to think that I’m patriotic (and not nationalistic), and I recognize that the mindless promotion of nationalism in South Korea is a huge problem. But it is also being recognized as a problem and is being worked on by us. We still haven’t gotten over the euphoria from the 2002 world cup, I know, but just give us a few more years… it feels really good
mmm….
28 & 29 - Excellent comments. Your reminder—that many of the items we expats complain about are the growing pains of a very recently modern society—is well taken.
Good stuff, Bum — thanks.
As one who fully experienced the then-common and heavy cultural-self-loathing of South Korea in the 1980s, i benignly smile when the new generation is acting proud-of-themselves 2002-style, and do not criticize it. Tho it may at times seem to go to ridiculous extremes that cannot be justified by any facts-on-the-ground, it’s a healthy and refreshing balance to the unfortunate past.
and lastly, thank you, iceberg.
???
deleted (off-topic and then some)
Quicknote:
Guys, we’ve got to elevate the level of discourse on this site. Most of the folks here rely on anecdotal evidence and hearsay as proof of Korean nationalism. I don’t have to point out that this is a grave mistake. Anecdotes and hearsay may work when you’re preaching to the choir, but cannot work in a forum where candidates are judged on their ability to critically analyze and probe arguments.
I’m open to views contrary to my own. I’m ready to debate the question of whether the Korean wave is a symptom of nationalism, or more generally whether Korea is overly nationalist, but real debate requires facts.
I offer these criteria for evaluating Korea’s nationalism:
1. History.
2. Laws.
3. Cultural Trends.
After taking the criteria above, I suggest comparing results to those of other countries.
Good Luck!
Guys, how about sticking to Mr. Park’s article and the views he talks of in the reference article and stay away from baiting and trolling others.
deleted (off-topic)
BTW, if Korea followed Mr Parks advice (or any other country in the world, for that matter), then the world would simply default to some god-awful flavor of “American”.
deleted (off-topic)
99.999% of all pop music sucks,no matter where it comes from.
deleted (off-topic)
deleted (off-topic)
deleted (off-topic)
deleted (off-topic)
deleted (off-topic and bad taste)
Gayish? Really? You think that -ish is necessary? That’s like calling Rosie O’Donnell lesbianish or baduk weirdish.
I apologize for not including you in my prior list of half-wit knee-jerk apologists above. You must have been heart-broken and offended.
Kudos to bumfromkorea for injecting a little honesty into a topic that sorely lacks it. For someone that claims to be only 20, he’s already light years ahead of his gyopo peers in that arena.
Could’ve done without that final quote though. That last bit about being “unique beings in this world” is the kind of bullshit that makes furriners heads spin around exorcist-style.
Koreans aren’t unique. They’re just lumps of flesh and blood like all the 5.95 billion other people on the planet. The sooner you and your countrymen realize it, the better off we’ll all be. Listening to Koreans repeatedly try to drill into furriners (and each others) heads the millions of reasons why they’re so unique, special, extraordinary, and capable of feeling emotions that no one else on earth is capable of (You feel that jeong? Didn’t think so, you’re not Korean) is what gives the large majority of furriners the impression that Koreans are obsessed with notions of racial superiority and obnoxiously nationalistic.
Ya think?
LOL
Mr. blueballs, even if Koreans are simply humans, there is the issue of style and, in that sense, they are unique. Mind you, such can be for better or worse but the expression of the human condition, through their culture, is interesting and worthwhile.
The point that Park makes is it is important to focus upon the “style” without pandering to the low-brow nationalism that is more the result of false pride than the expression of a unique style or point-of-view. That sort of nationalism does not sell well on a global market, obviously.
It may seem obvious to most, but there are still some regulars here who can’t comprehend how whitey comes to his conclusions about Korean nationalism.
I will concede you are correct. This kind of “Korean style” is certainly unique:
http://www.lostnomad.org/wp-co.....rotest.jpg
Dag, that is wonderfully funny . . . give that man a tie.
Still, it is way out of context to Park’s thought though someone might put that into a stage musical with good effect.
Well, “the expression of the human condition through their culture” is usually a sight to behold, that much is true
Anyway, the best music in Korea is pansori, it kicks ass on all this wannabe Black music.
If you like Pansori, you should check out Shin Chong Hae, this young, Ewha graduate; about twenty-five. She has a sound and feel that is killing.
Two slightly differently-slanted write-ups on the appearance at Harvard (both Harvard campus papers). Both indicate, however, that JY Park stayed very much on-message, decrying the nationalistic tone of Hallyu.
http://www.news.harvard.edu/ga.....korea.html
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=517147
deleted (off-topic, yet again)
Wow, I just opened up this thread, so I don’t know what went down in all those deleted messages above, but Kim, buddy, that kinda stuff just ain’t right…
deleted (off-topic, inappropriate content)
R. Elgin, thanks for the tip, I’ll watch for her.
Seriously, the most interesting music from Korea is pansori and traditional instrumental music (also what Hwang Byung-ki does with kayageum, but I realize that his stuff is not for everybody). Of course, for younger Koreans this is all really boring
So Dogbertt, are you saying someone’s eggs are scrambled here?
Because I’m inclined to agree.
I think the fundamental point of the Koreans/Kyopos above (even some of the deleted stuff), that the nationalism behind Hallyu and Rain is rather innocuous, is a point well taken. And in the end, blindly pushing the Korean wave in the hope of an economic boost only damages Korea’s credibility. Annoying, very; damaging to others, no.
a-letheia, no one is saying hallyu is akin to al queda, it is innocuous, but also presumptuous and jingoistic. Pak Jin-young seems to grasp this. The arts of all things (even pop culture) is a matter of individual achievement, not some barometer of national status. That’s why the trumpeting of hallyu is at best naive and at worst causing a backlash in China, Japan and elsewhere.
from these discussions, you learn two things (or hear the same rhetoric).
1) the us is in iraq fighting a war. bad, bad country.
2) korean men have small penises.
It’s a weird combination of depressing and funny,how any subject can turn into a con-lib snitfest or a korean-american cockfight.
Seoulmilk, that is *why* I seem to need to edit more than I want to! This thread is about neither of the issues you glibly mention.
There is so much potential in Korea when it comes to the creative arts but, like the U.S. little understanding of it or support for it from business or government sectors.
(emphasis added)
Wow. That might come as a surprise to the New York Philharmonic, the National Symphony, the Boston Pops, and just about every other fine arts performing company in the United States, who subsist on grants from the NEA, NEH, corporations, and generous individuals. It’s not enough (of course, would any amount ever be considered “enough” by the recipients?), but the fine arts wouldn’t exist in the U.S. if not for the support you characterize as “little.”
As for pop culture, it’s created by the business sector. As such, it appeals to the least common denominator, ergo it sucks. It has none of the refinement of fine art, and none of the charm of folk art. I, for one, will lend my wholehearted support to asinine nationalism or any other force that can hasten the demise of this deplorable form of “culture.”
Finally, while this might not be strictly related to the topic at hand, your comment does bring up an interesting question. Should the United States government, in view of its limited enumerated powers, be in the business of patronizing the arts? (I speak here of the federal government). My vote is no, but I’d be curious to see others’ take on the issue.
UT, you are dead wrong to toss of a few names like the NY Phil, et al, when there are so many orchestras that have been fighting a tough fight to get subscribers. Read the first two paragraphs of this article to get an idea of what one writer thinks is the current state of classical music in America, though this is just one of many articles one could turn up in an instant. A few venues are lucky to get corporate support, such as Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola in NYC (”Diet Coke Women in Jazz Festival” is just one concert that bears a heavy-handed trademark just for the right to exist). The NEA and NEH are greatly under subsidized as well and come with so much red-tape to get a grant, many artists do not bother. Yeah, sure, there is a NEA and an NEH but these agencies remind me more of the expensive goods behind glass one might see in Pyongyang that are more for political show.
The US Government has failed greatly when it comes to the standards of education, especially considering the steady downward march of standards at the NEA (National Education Association) and their historical willingness to dumb down educational standards so as not to leave students behind, but much cause of failure, IMHO, comes at the local level when such-and-such a school decides that they need to fund a football or basketball team more than fine arts education, amongst other subjects. Such things are the very things that helps to build a culture, unless one actually thinks that football is a cultural asset.
Also, as I said earlier, the music industry has failed to lobby government for supporting the very education that would help drive its future business because they never stopped to think that far ahead or just what they were doing. As of this moment, they still do not get it either.
Link doesn’t work.
Did I not qualify my statement by saying it’s not enough? My point was that even the biggies would have a tough time if not for the government and corporate support they receive.
I agree with you totally about the pernicious influence of the NEA on education in the US. And, for that matter, regarding the music industry’s failure to support music education in the schools. On the other hand, however, considering the crap they peddle, would educating young people on what good music is be in their best interest? Unlike SYMS, I don’t think they can honestly say that “An educated consumer is our best customer.”
The issue about deleted (off-topic), where Japan and deleted (offensive) have deleted (off-topic, yet again) to once again deleted (off-topic, inappropriate content), as says deleted (personal attack) and deleted (personal attack) are surely upset because deleted (offensive to Miss Universe), whose deleted (bad taste) and spread eagle deleted (off-topic, inappropriate content, offensive to guys with comb overs).
@ iheartblueballs
The quote wasn’t necessarily promoting the idea of Korean supremacy, but rather uniqueness in history and culture… just like every other culture groups around the world. I suppose I’m not one of those people who want a homogeneous culture on Earth… I’m more of a biodiversity kinda guy.
I suppose I’m not one of those people who want a homogeneous culture on Earth… I’m more of a biodiversity kinda guy.
I am also weary of people who talk of “superiority”, Korean or no. I believe in Romans 3:23, which is God’s way of telling the world “basically, you ALL suck”.
But I am equally weary of those who gratuitously attack Korean identity and dignity.
For them, Korean nationalism is not something to be condemned on its own terms….but, simply….competition.
And there’s a big difference.