It is the title to one of J.R.R. Tolkien’s books in the trilogy “Lord of the Rings” but it is not the subject of this post - the subject of this post is power.
Despite the friendly relations between the North and South we are once again seeing one-uppisms, but this time not between the two Koreas but with the world. For those of you who have served in the military or have been here for a number of years; you probably remember the little one-uppism wars that the North and South used to have. Who could have the largest flag or flag pole in their propaganda village on the DMZ, who had the largest flag on the negotiation table, and of course, the large A-frame hotel in Pyongyang that is a monstrosity not only in style but in usability.
The Marmot has mentioned this before in earlier posts, but Korea (South) has decided to join its northern brother and make a bid for the largest buildings in the world… not just one, but two. The Incheon city government wants to build twin towers on reclaimed land near McArthur’s landing. I realize that there is a need for more buildings in this over-populated country, but looking around my neighborhood (Mokdong) I see a lot of buildings with empty space for rent… Why would you need to build two 2,013 feet tall buildings in Incheon - the answer is quite apparent:
“South Koreans were a little hurt by the fact that Taiwan has the world’s tallest building, and we don’t,” said Lee Bok-nam, a researcher at the Construction & Economy Research Institute of Korea. “If they have one, we have to have one, too.”
“All international cities have landmark towers,” said Lee Seung-joo, a senior project manager of the 151-story Incheon towers, scheduled for completion by 2013. “A landmark tower is like a brand. These towers will be Incheon’s brand to the world.”
“A tall building means pride,” said Kim Sang-dae, a professor of architectural engineering at Korea University in Seoul. “It is a message to the world, that we are now equal to you and that we are not a poor country anymore.”
Well, Incheon seems to have the right idea - make a taller building and the world respects you. Not to be outdone, Seoul has plans for its own tall building - this building will be almost twice the size of the twins in Incheon. And why would Seoul build such a towering building?
“Seoul is the capital, so it must have the tallest building [the Yongsan Landmark Building at 2,046 feet high],” said Han Bong-seok, an executive at Korea Railroad, the national railway company, who heads the project to build the tower on the site of an old train yard. “This is for the pride of Seoul.”
The rest of the article (New York Times) can be read here.
42 Comments
And yet somehow London and Paris made it without a skyline full of tall buildings.
Wow, the battle to see who has the world’s biggest pseudo penis.
“A tall building means pride,” said Kim Sang-dae, a professor of architectural engineering at Korea University in Seoul. “It is a message to the world, that we are now equal to you and that we are not a poor country anymore.”
How about adequate central heating and A/C - pardon me, “aircon” - in public schools and universities, as an example of sending a “message to the world” about Korea having attained equality. While we’re at it, why not develop a public education system that doesn’t depend on a private shadow industry to supplement its shortcomings?
Nah, let’s just throw up some skyscrapers, host another Asian Games, pretend to clone some animals, build a canal across the country, or whatever, all in the name of pride.
“And yet somehow London and Paris made it without a skyline full of tall buildings.”
Very true.
Large-scale constructions projects meant to serve as a salve for wounded pride? How about small-scale projects of architectural note? Why not instill pride instead, by creating more beautiful local communities - the places where people actually live and work every day?
Most Koreans, of course, will not use these massive buildings, but will instead continue to live and work in crumbling, poorly constructed communities which have limited aestetic appeal. Many Koreans will admit that their neighborhoods are not as beautiful as they could be, or as they’d like, but few attempts are ever made to provide a solution to this problem.
How much pride can be felt in projects like these, when only a fraction of folks will ever actually make use of them? How much pride can be felt, when most will still have to live in homes and communities that they wish looked better? If city planners tried to answer those questions, they might find that people would in fact have a greater sense in pride.
Pride is for assholes.
“Pride is for assholes.” Maybe. The end-all conundrum of the Koreans is the hope that they can have it bigger. I remember looking out of the KTX with a friend and I remarked on how beautiful the countryside was. My friend agreed with the caveat that “we all wish it were bigger”. The rank and file Korean person falls head over heals in love with Megook because they can own a large home and LAND. It’s not hard to understand the big dick, little dick game that goes on day-in and day-out on this island.
C’mon, iheartblueballs, don’t hold back - tell us what you really think.
Pride, in and of itself, is not bad. For example, I don’t think it’s wrong to be proud of your children’s accomplishments, or of the succesful completion of a difficult project at work, or of a weekend project at home. These aren’t bad things. And certainly, a big building - or the lack of it - will have little impact on those whose feelings of pride come from such things.
The problem, however, is that those interested in describing the benefits of a big building to the Korean psyche aren’t talking about these types of things. They’re talking about wounds to pride in one’s nation.
Pride in things over which one has some influence and effect is understandable. Pride in things with which one is completely unconnected - such as most people are with these building projects - is laughable.
http://www.spaceelevator.com/
Skyscrapers are old school.
Yes, this is the best idea I have heard all week. It is people and their social communities that bestow value upon a culture, not large buildings. Record-breaking buildings do not instill real cultural pride, no one will visit Korea to see these buildings unless they are an architect and larger buildings will be built.
#9, I agree in premise. One big problem is most people in Korea own their unit, not the building. When neighborhoods and more aptly buildings get shabby from lack of pride and maintenance, they face the wrecking-ball. It has always surprised me that Koreans would rather be in a villa or a block as apposed to a free-standing home. So, a good solution in the local thought process is putting all of the wealth in the front-room. Watches, handbags, luxury goods in the highest degree is more popular than having a real nice place like North Americans strive for.
buy
Isn’t this a rehash of the Korea Times article from late March this year which noted the Korea Railroad development in Yongsan?
Also, not be left out in the new tall building stakes is the 160-storey Burj Dubai, scheduled for completion next year. It will be more than 800 meters high
Er, and if my mathematics/arithmetic hasn’t let me down totally, 800 metres is over 2,600 feet, making the Korean Railroad development number two before it is build
If Koreans could get beyond the mindset of copying Western stupidities like this and just make this garbage-covered, overdeveloped country a better place for Koreans to live in, I’m certain that justifiable pride would be the result.
#13… That’s the rubric!
Though I’m not a structural engineer I’d prefer these buildings be constructed–if they must be–in the solid embrace of bedrock rather than on reclaimed land.
The problem is really that the distinction needs to be made between scale and form- the innumberable lines of identical apartment buildings stretching across the horizon impress me, that’s for certain, but it’s impression of scale. Mammoth construction projects do make me ooh and ahh, but Seoul city planners should note that nobody thinks Paris is spectacularly done because of La Defense.
As for the Yongsan building, I’ll support it IF the red light district gets a free lease above the food court.
Why not make some easy access to the rooftop and create an international ‘BASE Hub’?
I’m keen!!
Ever since the Empire State Building rose from the depths of Manhattan, skyscrapers were a symbol of American engineering prowess and the indefatigable power of America’s economy and spirit.
Now we are being left behind as the race to the heavens moves to the East.
Are we becoming like crotchety old Europe, content now to take a step back from first place in the human race, to take comfort in our past instead of looking toward a brighter future?
Or have we instead matured and abandoned skyscrapers as a tacky plaything for those nouveau riche countries? I certainly hope it’s the latter as pondering American decline is simply no fun at all.
“Though I’m not a structural engineer I’d prefer these buildings be constructed–if they must be–in the solid embrace of bedrock rather than on reclaimed land.”
Yeah, but imagine the international attention Incheon would get if it had the very first leaning skyscraper. Think about out…Would you even know about the city of Pisa if it wasn’t for it’s leaning tower?
Build it!
Instead of thinking of these towers as being two large dicks, think of them as two large breasts highlighting Korea’s pride in its beautiful women, not that many have large breasts, but you get the idea.
Perhaps Seoul can create an identical copy of Ryugyong Hotel, but actually finish it. That kind of architectural Viagra would show the Norks.
“If they have one, we have to have one, too.”
Idiots and children rule the world.
‘Instead of thinking of these towers as being two large dicks, think of them as two large breasts highlighting Korea’s pride in its beautiful women, not that many have large breasts, but you get the idea.’ scummy expat
‘The rank and file Korean person falls head over heals in love with Megook because they can own a large home and LAND. It’s not hard to understand the big dick, little dick game that goes on day-in and day-out on this island.’ another scummy expat
your place here has just become another occidentalism.org. nothing more. and you say you were trying to clean the place up. maybe towards the koreans but not towards your gutter-living brothers.
now delete this post so respectacle people can come to your newly created hate site.
best wishes.
that, i wondered about, too, railwaycharm. In the US, rich folk live outside the city, near nature, away from dark skinned minorities, in houses. And towards higher grounds, on top of the mountain.
In the ROK, I don’t think I remember an inner city. I remember an outer city. There used be a panjachon in dal dong nae’s on higher grounds in Seoul. I don’t apt’s are preferred, because it’s closer to where important stuff are, they can be more valuable than a house, and close to good jobs and good schools…INSIDE Seoul !
Not outside. Big difference from USA !
Only to a certain extent, though. Real rich people like ex Presidents of South Korea and chae bols, I believe, live in Joo Taeks. Homes. Houses. No apts. That’s for the rich who couldn’t quite get rich enough.
“Instead of thinking of these towers as being two large dicks, think of them as two large breasts highlighting Korea’s pride in its beautiful women, not that many have large breasts, but you get the idea.”
No, skyscrapers are unmistakable phallic symbols. If you want to create a mammary symbol, it would have to be a rounded object…like the National Assembly Building in Seoul (Ever ask yourself why they put such an obvious phallic symbol (the 66 Building) so close to the National Assembly Building? Maybe they were trying to counter the female energy? Either way, I always thought it was quite humorous. I like to think that they were trying to say that Koreans are turned on by democracy.)
23 - Wow, the han is getting deep in here. And I’m not talking about the river.
The mine is bigger than yours thing seems to be the national sport here.
The most recent example was the launch of the King Sejong class Aegis destroyer. The Korean press and the military were quick to point out the fact that the ship had more missiles than the US Arleigh Burke class and the Japanese Atago class Aegis destroyers.
Other than that, I see the above in my office everyday. One guy buys an expensive electronic gizmo. Then the guy next to him gets all worked up and shells out millions of won to buy a better gizmo, regardless of the fact that the guy has no need for it.
Pride cometh before the fall.
Does any reader in the know have any idea on the reality of all these Korean projects (and I include Pusan and Lotte World)? As a consumer of office space in this country, my attitude is “knock yourselves out.” I want imdae (for rent) signs everywhere.
Wedge:
These are all very speculative at this stage, although the towers at Songdo may have some legs. Consider, e.g., that the other gigantic tower project in Incheon that was to be developed by Daewoo Motor Sales (the rump of the old Daewoo, not connection with GM) has apparently been shelved in favor of DMS’ new fantasy of doing a universal studios theme park. I’d imagine that this is about as realistic as the purported MGM- theme park announced for Busan - the one in connection with which the MGM people bent over backwards to say at the pree conference that they were NOT investing anything, just licensing their name and characters, etc. Fackler’s article claims that these Korean projects ate riding a deep wave of cash in Korea, but that reaaly remains to be seen.
Sperwer: Danke.
A shyscraper carries more importance than you give it credit for, gentlemen. Which is why I suspect you are trying to make light of the fact that Korea will soon have the world’s tallest.
The facts of the matter stand as such: Skyscrapers are representative of a country’s economic and technological prowess. It is no mere coincidence that the world’s first skyscrapers were developed during America’s period of economic ascendance. Now that Korea–and Asia more generally, is starting to build these structures, the world can see that the center of power and culture is shifting east.
And now to address some of the more ridiculous claims advanced in this thread:
And yet somehow London and Paris made it without a skyline full of tall buildings.
–Robert Carr
Robert, what is Paris most famous landmark? You guessed it. It’s the Eiffel tower. So you’re wrong. Paris at least did not “make it” without tall buildings.
How about adequate central heating and A/C - pardon me, “aircon” - in public schools and universities, as an example of sending a “message to the world” about Korea having attained equality
–globalvillageidiot
Villageidiot, you are an English teacher, not an architect. Stick to what you know. Howabout you use your vote in whatever country you live in to elect people who will fix some of the air conditioners in your country’s universities.
If Koreans could get beyond the mindset of copying Western stupidities like this and just make this garbage-covered, overdeveloped country a better place for Koreans to live in, I’m certain that justifiable pride would be the result.
–Micheal
This is a curious statement from a man whose country’s largest city is among the world’s filthiest. Seoul is about 10 times cleaner than New York City–for freaks sake, you have rats and cockroaches running around your subways! Micheal, when you decide to clean up your city, then you can come here and talk about mine.
Bottomline: Seoul is cleaner than most major cities in the US.
No, skyscrapers are unmistakable phallic symbols.
–SomeguyinKorea
To most gay guys, everything is a phallic symbol.
I’m new to this site. I think I’ll have some fun here.
31 - Wow. What blatant baiting. But what the hell, I’ll take my turn at the hook. Here we go:
First of all, you’re responding to Brendon Carr, not Robert.
Second, he cited two of the world’s great cities as examples (not an exhaustive list) to illustrate that tall buildings do not a great city make. You “disproved” (not really, but I’ll be charitable) one of his examples. London still stands, and just for kicks I’ll add Rome to take the place of the “fallen” Paris. Oops. The “ridiculous” claim still stands.
Suuuuuuuure you are. You know an awful lot about your fellow posters for a newcomer.
But again, even giving you the benefit of the doubt on that point… get back under your bridge, troll.
London has the 443-foot-high Eye of Sauron.
Rome includes plenty of historic buildings, such as the nearly 400-foot-high St. Peter’s Basilica, that were of dizzying heights when they were built.
Thomo the Lost: “Also, not be left out in the new tall building stakes is the 160-storey Burj Dubai, scheduled for completion next year. It will be more than 800 meters high.”
And numerous Korean contractors are very much involved in its construction.
“Villageidiot, you are an English teacher, not an architect. Stick to what you know. Howabout you use your vote in whatever country you live in to elect people who will fix some of the air conditioners in your country’s universities.”
I live in Korea. I’m a resident and taxpayer. Limited voting rights at the moment, but the situation is improving. Therefore, according to your logic, I guess the onus is on me to address issues here and do my best to improve the situation. Not that your opinions about what I should deem important and how I should act are worth a pitcher of spit.
I seem to recall having central heating and air throughout my career as a student, so an individual unit breaking down would not have meant students - in particular younger students - suffering in extreme cold or heat. Addressing such a problem is more important to me than obsessing over phallic symbols. To each his/her own.
“Skyscrapers are representative of a country’s economic and technological prowess. ”
I thought that idea pretty much went out the window–and fell 88 stories to its death–when the Petronas towers were built in Malaysia, a country with a relatively small economy.
“Skyscrapers are representative of a country’s economic and technological prowess. ”
In the US, skyscrapers seem more like targets these days.
And yet somehow London and Paris made it without a skyline full of tall buildings.
Note how New York City is conspicuously left out of this discussion…
Ut Videam:
You really should do your research before we enter into a discussion. It might do you some good.
1. London: London has Big Ben, one of tallest freestanding clocktowers in the world.
Paris: Paris has the Eiffel Tower.
Rome, as one of the posters mentioned earlier, has buildings that, upon completion, were some of tallest of their day–St Peter’s Basillica is a prime example.
So you’ve failed, my friend. This returns the conversation to my original thesis: Skyscrapers are indicative of a country’s rising economic and technological profile.
I look forward to our future conversations.
“And yet somehow London and Paris made it without a skyline full of tall buildings.
Note how New York City is conspicuously left out of this discussion…”
You seem to have explained why in #37.
39 - You really should try reading the “ridiculous claims” to which you feebly attempt to respond. Unless, of course, you’re intentionally distorting them in order to set up your facile dismissals.
Brendon’s original contention, which you attempted to disprove, was:
(emphasis added)
One swallow does not a spring make, and one (or even two!) tallish buildings does not translate to “a skyline full of tall buildings.” So you’ve failed, my friend.
Back under your bridge. And take your straw man with you.