Comments on: Korea Branding and Copycats http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/ Korea... in Blog Format Mon, 7 Jul 2008 01:30:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: snow http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82172 snow Fri, 18 May 2007 05:48:47 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82172 The drug companies don't want to lose money on their investment. Why should the companies risk their own cash for the greater good? A company is in business to make profit, not for the greater good. And yes, it is a conspiracy theory. Drugs companies can't just name their price. The price is determined by several factors including what the market can bear. Ethics, shmethics, if you want to save the world, please feel free to step up to the plate and put your own cash on the line to find cures for the world's diseases. And as I said, research into AIDS drugs has decreased because companies see that they can no longer profit from them with countries breaking patents. Many are dying because of not being able to afford medicines, but instead of breaking patents, these countries can make very good deals with companies to provide the drugs at far below cost, freebies and other negotiated means. Giving the companies the finger and stealing their patented ideas only means that the companies are going to take their business elsewhere and they will think twice about dealing with such governments in the future. Think of socialists like Mugabe and Chavez. Who's going to risk their own cash if your property can be grabbed from you at any time? The drug companies don’t want to lose money on their investment. Why should the companies risk their own cash for the greater good? A company is in business to make profit, not for the greater good. And yes, it is a conspiracy theory. Drugs companies can’t just name their price. The price is determined by several factors including what the market can bear.

Ethics, shmethics, if you want to save the world, please feel free to step up to the plate and put your own cash on the line to find cures for the world’s diseases. And as I said, research into AIDS drugs has decreased because companies see that they can no longer profit from them with countries breaking patents. Many are dying because of not being able to afford medicines, but instead of breaking patents, these countries can make very good deals with companies to provide the drugs at far below cost, freebies and other negotiated means. Giving the companies the finger and stealing their patented ideas only means that the companies are going to take their business elsewhere and they will think twice about dealing with such governments in the future. Think of socialists like Mugabe and Chavez. Who’s going to risk their own cash if your property can be grabbed from you at any time?

]]> By: SomeguyinKorea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82161 SomeguyinKorea Fri, 18 May 2007 04:04:58 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82161 snow, it's not a conspiracy theory. The laws in richer countries ensures that the drug companies name its price in order to turn a hefty profit. Are pharmaceutical companies running in the red? It's ironic that you mention AIDS medicine because they certainly aren't about to go tits up if they manufacture these drugs. Do they want to cure AIDS, save lives, or increase profits? It's quite the ethical dilemma, isn't it? But, please, tell me, how many people have died in impoverished countries because they couldn't afford AIDS medicine? snow, it’s not a conspiracy theory. The laws in richer countries ensures that the drug companies name its price in order to turn a hefty profit. Are pharmaceutical companies running in the red? It’s ironic that you mention AIDS medicine because they certainly aren’t about to go tits up if they manufacture these drugs. Do they want to cure AIDS, save lives, or increase profits? It’s quite the ethical dilemma, isn’t it? But, please, tell me, how many people have died in impoverished countries because they couldn’t afford AIDS medicine?

]]> By: snow http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82073 snow Thu, 17 May 2007 04:22:21 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82073 "Given that large corporation, including pharmaceutical makers, have the governments of most of the richest nations by the balls (thus ensuring that we’ll keep on padding the pockets of the corporations), a few impoverished nations allowing generic versions of patented drugs won’t much of an affect on the overall picture." Nice conspiracy theory, someguyinkorea. Sounds like typical groundless anti-corporation dogma. I've read (will try to find a link) that the breaking of patents has already had serious effects on the production of certain drugs, for AIDS in particular. “Given that large corporation, including pharmaceutical makers, have the governments of most of the richest nations by the balls (thus ensuring that we’ll keep on padding the pockets of the corporations), a few impoverished nations allowing generic versions of patented drugs won’t much of an affect on the overall picture.”

Nice conspiracy theory, someguyinkorea. Sounds like typical groundless anti-corporation dogma. I’ve read (will try to find a link) that the breaking of patents has already had serious effects on the production of certain drugs, for AIDS in particular.

]]> By: SomeguyinKorea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82070 SomeguyinKorea Thu, 17 May 2007 04:00:12 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82070 "but the way some countries are going, they are ignoring the companies and going ahead and throwing out copyright protection which could have serious consequences down the road." Not really. Given that large corporation, including pharmaceutical makers, have the governments of most of the richest nations by the balls (thus ensuring that we'll keep on padding the pockets of the corporations), a few impoverished nations allowing generic versions of patented drugs won't much of an affect on the overall picture. “but the way some countries are going, they are ignoring the companies and going ahead and throwing out copyright protection which could have serious consequences down the road.”

Not really. Given that large corporation, including pharmaceutical makers, have the governments of most of the richest nations by the balls (thus ensuring that we’ll keep on padding the pockets of the corporations), a few impoverished nations allowing generic versions of patented drugs won’t much of an affect on the overall picture.

]]> By: snow http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82062 snow Thu, 17 May 2007 03:35:44 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82062 Vacilando, I agree that a middle ground needs to be found, but the way some countries are going, they are ignoring the companies and going ahead and throwing out copyright protection which could have serious consequences down the road. For example, I read that Allied Pharmaceuticals offered Brazil a large discount on their products (25 or 30%) to stave off the breaking of the patent, but Brazil ignored this and decided to help their own home-grown companies to make generics. Many of the majors now offer some drugs at cost as well and even offer some at below cost or make donations. But even at cost, the price is often too much in some of these countries, so it is a dilemma. But the knee-jerk anti-corporate line of so many on this issue (not saying you are, but many others are in articles I've read) is tiresome as I know that many companies are making some effort to solve these problems. As you say, a middle ground needs to be found, but breaking patents hurts the search for needed drugs in the future. If these companies can't make a profit on the drugs they produce (and the costs involved are absolutely huge), then they will stop making drugs for diseases of the poor and focus on drugs for the rich world who can afford them. I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that funding has decreased for AIDS drugs because of all the patent breaking that has happened. It is no longer profitable for companies to try to find new drugs. Why spend billions just to lose your investment to makers of generics? Vacilando, I agree that a middle ground needs to be found, but the way some countries are going, they are ignoring the companies and going ahead and throwing out copyright protection which could have serious consequences down the road. For example, I read that Allied Pharmaceuticals offered Brazil a large discount on their products (25 or 30%) to stave off the breaking of the patent, but Brazil ignored this and decided to help their own home-grown companies to make generics. Many of the majors now offer some drugs at cost as well and even offer some at below cost or make donations. But even at cost, the price is often too much in some of these countries, so it is a dilemma. But the knee-jerk anti-corporate line of so many on this issue (not saying you are, but many others are in articles I’ve read) is tiresome as I know that many companies are making some effort to solve these problems. As you say, a middle ground needs to be found, but breaking patents hurts the search for needed drugs in the future. If these companies can’t make a profit on the drugs they produce (and the costs involved are absolutely huge), then they will stop making drugs for diseases of the poor and focus on drugs for the rich world who can afford them. I don’t know if it’s true, but I’ve heard that funding has decreased for AIDS drugs because of all the patent breaking that has happened. It is no longer profitable for companies to try to find new drugs. Why spend billions just to lose your investment to makers of generics?

]]> By: Vacilando http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82057 Vacilando Thu, 17 May 2007 02:27:51 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82057 Snow: I don't totally disagree with you, but I think some kind of middle ground needs to be found in the case of intellectual property rights because, at least in the case of medicine (and I would argue the music industry as well) it is starting to work against the common good. Countries that are part of the WTO are starting to break copyright agreements and accept generic brands from India because on a basic practical level, the laws aren't helping the people that need help. While I find practices of the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries deplorable, I must concede that they have produced more effective treatments than any other country that I know of. Snow: I don’t totally disagree with you, but I think some kind of middle ground needs to be found in the case of intellectual property rights because, at least in the case of medicine (and I would argue the music industry as well) it is starting to work against the common good. Countries that are part of the WTO are starting to break copyright agreements and accept generic brands from India because on a basic practical level, the laws aren’t helping the people that need help. While I find practices of the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries deplorable, I must concede that they have produced more effective treatments than any other country that I know of.

]]> By: snow http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82050 snow Thu, 17 May 2007 01:52:01 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82050 There's one fundamental difference that some of you are missing when it comes to this issue. Capitalism enables humans do build bigger and better 'things' because the profit motive enables people to raise the huge capital needed to do so. Without property rights and the profit motive, there would be little incentive to take on such risks. Likewise with intellectual property rights. Without the profit motive, far less cash is available to create 'big' things. A lone scientist could take it upon himself to work for a cure for cancer or AIDS in his spare time, but many things in this world require huge amounts of capital. How can the individual do it, unless he has a lab and time at his disposal? Such things require support. Intellectual property rights enable the raising of large amounts of cash to undertake very large projects, ones that would be impossible without others putting up the cash. There’s one fundamental difference that some of you are missing when it comes to this issue. Capitalism enables humans do build bigger and better ‘things’ because the profit motive enables people to raise the huge capital needed to do so. Without property rights and the profit motive, there would be little incentive to take on such risks.

Likewise with intellectual property rights. Without the profit motive, far less cash is available to create ‘big’ things. A lone scientist could take it upon himself to work for a cure for cancer or AIDS in his spare time, but many things in this world require huge amounts of capital. How can the individual do it, unless he has a lab and time at his disposal? Such things require support. Intellectual property rights enable the raising of large amounts of cash to undertake very large projects, ones that would be impossible without others putting up the cash.

]]> By: Vacilando http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82044 Vacilando Thu, 17 May 2007 00:47:06 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82044 RE: the perspective that copyright laws lead to innovation. I find this a very cynical perspective on human nature. We all want better medicines and cures for diseases, right? Most of the people I know, including my brother, that have gone into medical school or medical research have done so not for the money (especially with the US health insurance industry running the show and enormous student loan debt these professional incur), but for the chance to help people. Just look at all the innovation and research done at the University level. I don't think there's very many people that would be happy to just sit around all day doing nothing in a world with no intellectual property laws. In fact, we could finally get back to a time where we actually found cures for stuff instead of just treatments that guarantee dependence on drug companies for the rest of our lives. RE: the perspective that copyright laws lead to innovation.

I find this a very cynical perspective on human nature. We all want better medicines and cures for diseases, right? Most of the people I know, including my brother, that have gone into medical school or medical research have done so not for the money (especially with the US health insurance industry running the show and enormous student loan debt these professional incur), but for the chance to help people.

Just look at all the innovation and research done at the University level.

I don’t think there’s very many people that would be happy to just sit around all day doing nothing in a world with no intellectual property laws. In fact, we could finally get back to a time where we actually found cures for stuff instead of just treatments that guarantee dependence on drug companies for the rest of our lives.

]]> By: Sonagi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82041 Sonagi Thu, 17 May 2007 00:35:51 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82041 Wal-mart, Target, and other retailers often package their house brands to resemble market leaders, but nobody is fooled. The packaging in the photos looks different enough to me. Below is a concrete example of the "IP rights to substances found in nature" Lirelou is talking about: http://archive.salon.com/health/feature/2000/03/07/genetic_test/ Wal-mart, Target, and other retailers often package their house brands to resemble market leaders, but nobody is fooled. The packaging in the photos looks different enough to me.

Below is a concrete example of the “IP rights to substances found in nature” Lirelou is talking about:

http://archive.salon.com/healt.....etic_test/

]]> By: lirelou http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82033 lirelou Wed, 16 May 2007 23:59:29 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/16/korea-branding-and-copycats/#comment-82033 I believe that the crux of dissent in the West over IP rights revolves not around their existence, which the majority opinion agrees are beneficial, but about the extended time periods for which such rights are now being granted. Likewise, there are serious disagreements over the granting of IP rights to substances found in nature. The public has an interest in recognizing the difference between developing a process that extracts a valuable "essence" from a natural substance and thereby renders it fit for some necessary human use, and corporations merely "branding" such substances for themselves. IP rights are a valued incentive to commerce and industry, but should not be viewed as permanent, unextinguishable rights to receive kickbacks. Otherwise, the competition incentive is removed from commerce. My apologies is this sounds obtuse. I believe that the crux of dissent in the West over IP rights revolves not around their existence, which the majority opinion agrees are beneficial, but about the extended time periods for which such rights are now being granted. Likewise, there are serious disagreements over the granting of IP rights to substances found in nature. The public has an interest in recognizing the difference between developing a process that extracts a valuable “essence” from a natural substance and thereby renders it fit for some necessary human use, and corporations merely “branding” such substances for themselves. IP rights are a valued incentive to commerce and industry, but should not be viewed as permanent, unextinguishable rights to receive kickbacks. Otherwise, the competition incentive is removed from commerce.

My apologies is this sounds obtuse.

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