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	<title>Comments on: Marmot&#8217;s Open Thread #7</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri,  5 Sep 2008 06:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Rhesus</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-82240</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhesus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 21:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-82240</guid>
		<description>"I
am
interested
in

truth..."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I<br />
am<br />
interested<br />
in</p>
<p>truth&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: bluetranslator</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-82239</link>
		<dc:creator>bluetranslator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 21:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-82239</guid>
		<description>Pawikirogi,

You may already be familiar with this particular article written by Jared Diamond, but if you aren't, you should definitely give it a read. http://discovermagazine.com/1998/jun/japaneseroots1455 He advocates the theory that the language of Goguryeo--different from that of Silla which evolved into modern Korean--bears a strong resemblance to Old Japanese. 

Since Diamond is not a linguist, he fails to mention that while Goguryeo language did differ from that of Silla, it was similar to that of Baekje. After all, Baekje was founded by Onjo, the son of Jumong, the founder of Goguryeo. And of course, as you undoubtedly know, and as documented in Japan's own Nihongi and admitted by Akihito himself, the Japanese royal family traces its heritage to the family line of King Muryong of Baekje.

Anyway, I digress. The most widely accepted theory in linguistic circles as of now is that, as Diamond has suggested, Japanese is indeed a relative of the now extinct languages of Goguryo, Baekje, and Buyeo. Sometimes all of these four languages are grouped together in a hypothetical language family referred to as the "Buyeo languages." In fact, a guy named Christopher Beckwith at Indiana University did an impressive job of compiling a lexicon of cognates between the Goguryeo and Japanese languages in his book "Koguryo: The Language of Japan's Continental Relatives." They do sell the book at Amazon but for about $120. :( I was fortunate enough to read it as a part of my research at the East-West Center at the Uni. of Hawaii. As with most books on linguistics, it can be incredibly dense but is definitely worth the effort.

The interesting thing about the debate surrounding Goguryeo is that China's ridiculous claims actually give some fodder to the ultra-right Japanese anthropologists in who pointedly reject any ancestral, linguistic influence from Korea. The more the identity of Goguryeo can be obfuscated--Beckwith kind of treats Goguryeo as its own culture, neither Korean nor Chinese--the more it serves the ludicrous claims of Japanese academia that the Japanese, while clearly descended from settlers from the Asian mainland, are most definitely not related to the Koreans.

I'm hardly a Korean nationalist. In fact, I begrudgingly refer to myself as an ethnic Korean only when pressed because I really believe that we should no longer subject to ourselves to petty emotions like nationalism and jingoism. But nations as entities have existed and do exist, and I am interested in the truth. And the truth is that Goguryeo was a Korean culture--Wang Geon, the founder of Goryeo would not have named his country after Goguryeo if it was a Chinese state. And all research give strong credence to the theory that modern Japanese is a descendant of the now dead Goguryeo and Baekje languages. But of course, the powerful get to present their version of history, and that is why you still see in most generalist references this absolutely unscientific crap about Japanese being a language isolate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pawikirogi,</p>
<p>You may already be familiar with this particular article written by Jared Diamond, but if you aren&#8217;t, you should definitely give it a read. <a href="http://discovermagazine.com/1998/jun/japaneseroots1455" rel="nofollow">http://discovermagazine.com/19.....eroots1455</a> He advocates the theory that the language of Goguryeo&#8211;different from that of Silla which evolved into modern Korean&#8211;bears a strong resemblance to Old Japanese. </p>
<p>Since Diamond is not a linguist, he fails to mention that while Goguryeo language did differ from that of Silla, it was similar to that of Baekje. After all, Baekje was founded by Onjo, the son of Jumong, the founder of Goguryeo. And of course, as you undoubtedly know, and as documented in Japan&#8217;s own Nihongi and admitted by Akihito himself, the Japanese royal family traces its heritage to the family line of King Muryong of Baekje.</p>
<p>Anyway, I digress. The most widely accepted theory in linguistic circles as of now is that, as Diamond has suggested, Japanese is indeed a relative of the now extinct languages of Goguryo, Baekje, and Buyeo. Sometimes all of these four languages are grouped together in a hypothetical language family referred to as the &#8220;Buyeo languages.&#8221; In fact, a guy named Christopher Beckwith at Indiana University did an impressive job of compiling a lexicon of cognates between the Goguryeo and Japanese languages in his book &#8220;Koguryo: The Language of Japan&#8217;s Continental Relatives.&#8221; They do sell the book at Amazon but for about $120. <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> I was fortunate enough to read it as a part of my research at the East-West Center at the Uni. of Hawaii. As with most books on linguistics, it can be incredibly dense but is definitely worth the effort.</p>
<p>The interesting thing about the debate surrounding Goguryeo is that China&#8217;s ridiculous claims actually give some fodder to the ultra-right Japanese anthropologists in who pointedly reject any ancestral, linguistic influence from Korea. The more the identity of Goguryeo can be obfuscated&#8211;Beckwith kind of treats Goguryeo as its own culture, neither Korean nor Chinese&#8211;the more it serves the ludicrous claims of Japanese academia that the Japanese, while clearly descended from settlers from the Asian mainland, are most definitely not related to the Koreans.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hardly a Korean nationalist. In fact, I begrudgingly refer to myself as an ethnic Korean only when pressed because I really believe that we should no longer subject to ourselves to petty emotions like nationalism and jingoism. But nations as entities have existed and do exist, and I am interested in the truth. And the truth is that Goguryeo was a Korean culture&#8211;Wang Geon, the founder of Goryeo would not have named his country after Goguryeo if it was a Chinese state. And all research give strong credence to the theory that modern Japanese is a descendant of the now dead Goguryeo and Baekje languages. But of course, the powerful get to present their version of history, and that is why you still see in most generalist references this absolutely unscientific crap about Japanese being a language isolate.</p>
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		<title>By: Vacilando</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-82086</link>
		<dc:creator>Vacilando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 07:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-82086</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Attention angry people," Lambourn wrote on his site. "I will take this game down from Newgrounds (where the game is hosted) if the donation amount reaches $1,000. I'll take it down from (Lambourn's Web site) if it reaches $2,000 and I will apologize if it reaches $3,000.&lt;/i&gt;

Guy's got big balls for such a crappy game... to say nothing of the poor taste...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Attention angry people,&#8221; Lambourn wrote on his site. &#8220;I will take this game down from Newgrounds (where the game is hosted) if the donation amount reaches $1,000. I&#8217;ll take it down from (Lambourn&#8217;s Web site) if it reaches $2,000 and I will apologize if it reaches $3,000.</i></p>
<p>Guy&#8217;s got big balls for such a crappy game&#8230; to say nothing of the poor taste&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Vacilando</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-82084</link>
		<dc:creator>Vacilando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 07:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-82084</guid>
		<description>I could've sworn I saw a discussion a couple days ago on this site about a Korean creating a VA-Tech shooting video game. Well, I read this today:

http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9720248-7.html?part=rss&#38;subj=news&#38;tag=2547-1_3-0-5

For those that are curious, this leads to the actual game:

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/378086</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could&#8217;ve sworn I saw a discussion a couple days ago on this site about a Korean creating a VA-Tech shooting video game. Well, I read this today:</p>
<p><a href="http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9720248-7.html?part=rss&amp;subj=news&amp;tag=2547-1_3-0-5" rel="nofollow">http://news.com.com/8301-10784.....47-1_3-0-5</a></p>
<p>For those that are curious, this leads to the actual game:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/378086" rel="nofollow">http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/378086</a></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-82051</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 01:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-82051</guid>
		<description>Again with the flag-eating protestor:
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2875636

Mmm...Chinese flag...delicious</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again with the flag-eating protestor:<br />
<a href="http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2875636" rel="nofollow">http://joongangdaily.joins.com.....id=2875636</a></p>
<p>Mmm&#8230;Chinese flag&#8230;delicious</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: lirelou</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-81902</link>
		<dc:creator>lirelou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 04:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-81902</guid>
		<description>Esteemed Marmot. Far Outliers has a post on trade in East Asia from the 8th thru 12th (?) centuries C.E.. Some mention is made of Silla's trade with China and Japan.  Pity I can no longer find a link to you on the main page. Hope it's not my dyslexia.

http://faroutliers.blogspot.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Esteemed Marmot. Far Outliers has a post on trade in East Asia from the 8th thru 12th (?) centuries C.E.. Some mention is made of Silla&#8217;s trade with China and Japan.  Pity I can no longer find a link to you on the main page. Hope it&#8217;s not my dyslexia.</p>
<p><a href="http://faroutliers.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://faroutliers.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: kpmsprtd</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-81901</link>
		<dc:creator>kpmsprtd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 04:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-81901</guid>
		<description>Re my pathetic #12 above, what a dumbass post, if I do say so myself.

My only concrete idea for regime change in North Korea is the Smelly Death Strategy. Idealists from all over the world invade North Korea by land, sea, and air. Each of us carries a bag of rice as a peace offering. Of course, we will be killed, but that's the point. Our bodies will be stacked up higher and higher, faster than they can be buried even with Chollima-brand tractors. And we will stink! At some point, there will be so many of us, and we'll stink so bad, that the North Korean people will have to take down Kim Jong-Il and his cronies in order to survive our furious onslaught of stench.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re my pathetic #12 above, what a dumbass post, if I do say so myself.</p>
<p>My only concrete idea for regime change in North Korea is the Smelly Death Strategy. Idealists from all over the world invade North Korea by land, sea, and air. Each of us carries a bag of rice as a peace offering. Of course, we will be killed, but that&#8217;s the point. Our bodies will be stacked up higher and higher, faster than they can be buried even with Chollima-brand tractors. And we will stink! At some point, there will be so many of us, and we&#8217;ll stink so bad, that the North Korean people will have to take down Kim Jong-Il and his cronies in order to survive our furious onslaught of stench.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Railwaycharm</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-81882</link>
		<dc:creator>Railwaycharm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 14:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-81882</guid>
		<description>#24. We have been muzzled by the thought police, or as I like to put him; The Shadow. Beware of the Black Hand of the Blog, or your comment will sleep with the fishes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#24. We have been muzzled by the thought police, or as I like to put him; The Shadow. Beware of the Black Hand of the Blog, or your comment will sleep with the fishes.</p>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-81881</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 13:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-81881</guid>
		<description>Wedge is right. In Germany it is sort of proverbial to state:

A dictatorial régime is almost impossible to topple from the inside, unless it has given itself up already (as was the case in the former East Germany).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wedge is right. In Germany it is sort of proverbial to state:</p>
<p>A dictatorial régime is almost impossible to topple from the inside, unless it has given itself up already (as was the case in the former East Germany).</p>
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		<title>By: Wedge</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-81879</link>
		<dc:creator>Wedge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 13:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/05/12/marmots-open-thread-7/#comment-81879</guid>
		<description>#12: You're making funny, right? If not, we have the 3rd Reich (hell, even the 2nd Reich), the 3rd Republic, Tojo's war cabinet, Pol Pot's bad boys, Mussolini (OK, that was sort of internal, but outside pressure had a bit of an influence), Antonescu, Haile Selassie, Kurt Schuschnigg, Quisling, numerous others, and that's just the 20th Century. Yeah, you're pulling my leg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12: You&#8217;re making funny, right? If not, we have the 3rd Reich (hell, even the 2nd Reich), the 3rd Republic, Tojo&#8217;s war cabinet, Pol Pot&#8217;s bad boys, Mussolini (OK, that was sort of internal, but outside pressure had a bit of an influence), Antonescu, Haile Selassie, Kurt Schuschnigg, Quisling, numerous others, and that&#8217;s just the 20th Century. Yeah, you&#8217;re pulling my leg.</p>
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