Ida Daussy tallks about life as a naturalized French woman in Korea. (HT to reader)
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Ida Daussy speaks
This entry was written by Robert Koehler, posted on April 30, 2007 at 10:29 am, filed under Asides, Ministry of Barbarian Affairs. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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39 Comments
I’ve actually met her once. She was very nice. I think she was pleasantly surprised to come across a fellow francophone outside of Seoul.
Interesting stuff.
She struck me as being nice enough when I met her briefly at Gimpo Airport a few years ago. Also spoke French to her, and she seemed (thankfully!) nothing like she is on TV. I can’t stand the Chuseok/Solnal-time clown persona that she adopts for the benefit of Korean TV audiences. (She’s not the only one - Robert Hawley comes to mind…) I don’t know if that goofy routine - her main thing seems to involve overblown facial contortions and various “oohs” and “ahs” as she munches down on yet another delicious holiday offering - encourages Koreans to be more accepting of foreigners or not, but it annoys the hell out of me.
Korean and foreign women agree that it is a painful life transition to what Ida Daussy calls “the third sex” the first time we are addressed as “ajumma” by a stranger in public.
I think she should be the “Korea, Sparkling” mascot. At least it wouldn’t be less embarassing:
http://life.ohmynews.com/artic.....ode=284143
Unlike the rest of us schlubs, Ida Daussy has learned there is no demand for criticism of the Amazing Race.
Mr. Carr, I think we got the PR version. Get some Beaujolais or Cointreau in her and she would sing like Edith Piaf.
Sonagi wrote, “Korean and foreign women agree that it is a painful life transition to what Ida Daussy calls “the third sex” the first time we are addressed as “ajumma” by a stranger in public.”
Well, let me assure you that it was a pretty painful life transition for me too when I was addressed as “ahjussi” for the first time! I’m sure all the guys can attest to that… In fact, during my visit to Seoul last month, I was actually asked what my “yon-sae” was!!!!! And the woman who asked me that was maybe in her mid 20’s and I couldn’t have been more than 10 years older. Hahaha… Surely it’s depressing, but I hardly think that Korea is the only culture obsessed with youth.
Daussy makes it seem as if France is some kind of haven for women in their 30’s, and I certainly am not qualified to comment on that as I have spent an entire 5 days in France. But I suspect that she’s exaggerating a bit to make her case. I am quite well aware that here in the States, people are just as obsessed with youth as they are in Korea. Every one of my friends, no matter their ethnicity, bemoans the fact that they will never ever be carded again at a bar.
But on a more serious note, Daussy’s calculated and conspicuous side-stepping of the difficult questions at hand actually speaks volumes. It is an attestment to the fact that Korean society has long ways to go in terms of accepting immigrants and visitors. Korea as a nation will have to deal with these issues. The only question is whether or not it can learn from the lessons eveident feom the history of the various multi-ethnic nations of the world.
One thing I learned from visiting this blog is that there seems to be a lot of anger in the expat community in Korea. And I can certainly understand some of that. You get dirty stares and snickers everywhere you go. You and your Korean girlfriend go out for a fun night out on the town, only to have to deal with some racist punks. When these things happen, I realize that it is hard to keep things in perspective. But please do remember that these things have happened in every society, and continue to happen in varying in degrees.
Just last year, I was visiting my ex-girlfriend (who happens to be white) who had recently moved to Atlanta. Well, her neighbors, who had thus far been very hospitable to her, were quite rude to me in ways that she interpreted as racist. I did too, but I told her to just let it go in the interest of her living situation. Well, she confronted them, and the nexy day, there were cops at her door. We had just moved in some furniture for her, (which the neighbors saw), and I had spent the previous day putting the furniture together and so on–the typical things that guys do for their girls. Well, the cops told us that they got an “anonymous” tip that there could have been some domestic abuse going on because of the noise! Now this is much more subtle than what may happen in Korea, but it is just as racist and hostile.
There was a time in America when open physical violence was routinly perpetrated on racial minorities. Even routinely encouraged. And these things happened a time when there were far more members of ethnic minorities than there will be for a long time to come in Korea. Of course, it would be ideal if we could just apply the absolutist standards and the Korean people could just hold themselves to the same standards of racial tolerance as people are held to in countries like the United States. But that is not how human nature works.
We can witness other nations who are going through the growing pains of transforming into multicultural societies. Just in December 2005, there were the infamous Cronulla race riots in Australia. I was in Australia and New Zealand in 2003 and had an incredible experience, and came away with the impression that these two countries were relatively free of the kind of racism that I have faced on occasion in the States. Well, I was wrong. Had I been in Cronulla during those riots, me well-being would have likely been compromised.
The first-generation immigrants like Daussy–or even my own parents–rarely make waves in their new country. For whatever reason, they usually decide that their new life in their adoptive country is better than the one they left behind. But Daussy’s children will demand to be treated with the same respect and dignity afforded to the other Korean kids–just as minority folks like myself demand to be treated in the US. And when that day comes, it will be a day of reckoning. Will the ethnic Korean majority respond with tear gas, fire hoses, and German shepherds? I certainly hope not. And I do think that at that point, it would be fair to hold Koreans to higher standards than to what happened in the States because Koreans will have the benefit of history on their side.
“Daussy makes it seem as if France is some kind of haven for women in their 30’s, and I certainly am not qualified to comment on that as I have spent an entire 5 days in France. But I suspect that she’s exaggerating a bit to make her case. I am quite well aware that here in the States, people are just as obsessed with youth as they are in Korea. Every one of my friends, no matter their ethnicity, bemoans the fact that they will never ever be carded again at a bar.”
Well, I am not sure whether women, at any age, really want to be carded at a bar, but I can attest to the fact that in Western and Northern Europe (including France where I used to live for 5 years) age, within reasonable limits, seems to be of much less importance than in Asia, or even in the US, his being not so much due to different external features than to a different perception of what is to be regarded as a “youthful appearance”. Which is one of the reasons why I like living here (presently in Germany)…
My hair started graying in my late twenties and is now about 25% gray. No North American or European has ever remarked about it, but Korean and Chinese hairdressers and acquaintances sometimes offered “helpful advice” on how to “fix” it.
A fellow American in China had a full head of premature gray, which I envied. Our Korean interpreter thought that was the color she was born with, so rare is the Korean who doesn’t douse their head with jet-black ink until they’ve reached the hwangap.
And I’ll confess right here and now that I think former Prime Minister Koizumi has the SEXIEST hair!!! Full, thick, gray, and a little unkempt - doesn’t get any better than that.
“Just last year, I was visiting my ex-girlfriend (who happens to be white)…”
And I believe here is another cultural difference, this time between Western (Europe, North America, Australia…) and Asian countries:
It is my experience, and also the experience of quite a number of other people I know, that in Asia it is downright impossible to stay on amicable terms with an ex-girlfriend or -boyfriend. Simply will not work…
“The first-generation immigrants like Daussy–or even my own parents–rarely make waves in their new country. For whatever reason, they usually decide that their new life in their adoptive country is better than the one they left behind.”
Maybe because that is the simple truth - otherwise they would not have migrated at all…
“Of course, it would be ideal if we could just apply the absolutist standards and the Korean people could just hold themselves to the same standards of racial tolerance as people are held to in countries like the United States. But that is not how human nature works.”
Well, even the Germans managed to make the transition in a relatively short time…
And then Korea has a relatively pleasant immigrant mix - mostly Western, East Asian, and South East Asian people, a couple of Africans and Latin Americans thrown in; but only very few Muslims who tend to cause most of the trouble…
If Ida Daussy were an immigrant in NYC, she’d be a restaurant waitress during the day while pursuing an acting career at night (which may or may not happen) along with thousands of other like-minded souls.
“There was a time in America when open physical violence was routinly perpetrated on racial minorities. Even routinely encouraged.”
Overstatement. It would be more correct to have stated: There was a time in some parts of the United States when the threat of physical violence against racial minorities was ever present.
In the 1950s and 60s, many White Southerners were proud of the fact that: “We treat our Nigras just like everyone else.” (Unless, of course, they got “uppity” about such things as sitting in the front of the bus, or registering to vote. That’s when the police dogs and rubber hoses came out.)
Kudos to Isa Daussy for having the intestinal fortitude to commit herself to Korea.
whiteblack in America != koreanwhite in Korea
You’re comparing apples and oranges.
bluetranslator–there is a tendency in France to appreciate les femmes d’un certain âge, and the country’s not quite as youth-obsessed as the U.S.
Also, on “One thing I learned from visiting this blog is that there seems to be a lot of anger in the expat community in Korea,” some of us are having a fine time here, and not encountering racism per se, but still come to the Hole with criticisms of this or that aspect of Korean society/gov’t (as we would in our home countries). Don’t mistake that for anger.
Well said Michael, in many respects I am more critical of my nation of birth. I think Korea has the life force and creative spirit by the barrow-full!
Michael, I certainly haven’t sensed any anger from you per se. I was just describing what I thought was a general milieu of the site. And the reason for my belief was based on the fact that I’ve encountered several instances of profane and ad hominem attacks in the just last couple of weeks that I’ve been posting! And all I did was present some provacative ideas. People are entitled to disagree with my ideas all you want. But when people throw around explicit epithets, it’s hard for me to not sense that as anger. Again, you have not partaken in any of that, Michael, so please dismiss the “anger” comments. They were not directed at you. The intensely visceral and personal nature of the attacks lobbied my way by some of the more vociferous posters made me wonder if somehow that kind of anger was prevalent in the expat community. I’d be more than happy if I am wrong and that is not the general sentiment.
I have always been smpathetic to and empathetic with the various ethnic minority groups in Korea, whether they be English teachers, migrant laborers, international brides, refugees, or even the US soldiers (Yes, I vehemently disagree with US foreign policy in general, but that does not stop me from treating any individual with respect.) In the US, I’m an ethnic minority myself. And I’ve more or less spent all of my adult life working to rectify what I see as injustice, and that attitude does not suddenly vanish when I am in Korea, just because I suddenly transform into a member of the dominant privileged group–an ethnic Korean male. So I hope you understand that my entire post was written in a tone supportive of and sympathetic to the good and brave non-ethnic Korean people who are contributing to Korean society.
Fantasy wrote in #13 and #14,
“Well, even the Germans managed to make the transition in a relatively short time…”
“And then Korea has a relatively pleasant immigrant mix - mostly Western, East Asian, and South East Asian people, a couple of Africans and Latin Americans thrown in; but only very few Muslims who tend to cause most of the trouble…”
Fantasy,
Even Germany has had far more time to deal with multiculturalism than Korea. And I’m not too sure if Germany can be said to have “made the transition.” Certainly, not without significant problems. As you must know, Neo-Nazi groups and sentiments still enjoy considerable popular support. Here’s an article from Der Spiegel.
http://www.spiegel.de/internat.....63,00.html
And I must really take issue with your comments about Muslims. That really does border on hate speech. Personally, as an ethnic Korean and a citizen of Korea, I’d rather have more Muslims in Korea than people who engage in hate-mongering.
Bluetranslator:
I’ve written about the alleged Neo-Nazi problem in Germany on various blogs of the K-blogosphere; some of these comments of mine are presently inaccessible (e.g. on The Asia Pages who seem to be taking an extended rest), others are buried somewhere and I am not able to trace them any more, thus I cannot provide you with any links.
Therefore I am just giving you a very short answer as a paraphrase of an extended comment I once posted somewhere (have forgotten where) in reply to commenter “Mark” who writes on this and many other blogs:
Sure, Neo-Nazis exist in Germany, more in the east than in the west, but there is a certain number of them in all provinces.
Sure, they are dangerous as they are usually unemployed young men in their teens or early twenties hanging out at night in a state of drunkenness in the Subway Stations of the underclass areas of the German cities. These areas are therefore to be carefully avoided by all non-whites, such as myself (I am German but look like an Indian) or my wife (she is Korean, got married to me in 1999 and came to Germany in 2004, together with me).
Fortunately, neither my wife nor me have any ambition whatsoever to ever venture into any of these underclass districts, let alone after dark.
The alleged political influence of the Neo-Nazis is a myth; they enjoy no respect nor support from German society. Nor do they have any coherent ideology and are unable to develop any; in fact they are so stupid that they cannot piss without wetting their pants.
Young unemployed Muslims, however, do constitute a serious danger to German society, just as they do in France (riots in 2005 !), Belgium, the Netherlands, and Sweden, due to their huge numbers, their tendency to organise themselves in gangs, and their propensity to commit serious assaults on non-muslim males (out of a perverted sense of “honour”) and rapes on females. My wife and I are dead scared of them.
Bluetranslator,
if you have read my comments on The Marmot’s Hole during the last month or so, you must be full well aware that, while I applaud the German Gyopo at every possible opportunity, I am, for a whole number of reasons, very critical, indeed, of the Korean Yuhaksaeng in Germany.
Having said this I want, in contrast to my usual Yuhaksaeng-bashing, utter some understanding of their situation.
One reason for their discontent is the following:
Due to their notorious lack of funds (all Yuhaksaeng without money somehow end up in Germany, land of free university education up to and including Ph.D.-level) they tend to live in the cheap areas of the German cities - and that is exactly where both the Neo-Nazis AND the Muslims have their homes, as well.
Due to this most unfortunate proximity the male Yuhaksaeng are frequently exposed to assaults by Neo-Nazis and Muslims - and the female Yuhaksaeng quite often get raped by the latter group (Neo-Nazis, in accordance with their principles, shy away from sexual contacts, consensual or forced, with females of a different race, and thus they are no danger to the female Yuhaksaeng).
Bluetranslator:
You are posting from the idyllic tropical island of Hawai’i and I envy you for that - I sometimes wish my wife and I were there, as well. You seem to be a little bit out of touch with the much rougher realities elsewhere…
My understanding is that in Germany, the single largest minority there are the Turks, which comprise 2.4% of the population. All they want to do is run their döner kebab shops and not make trouble. So I don’t see where Fantasy is coming with the statement that Muslims are making lots of trouble.
My understanding is that Netizen Kim is a Korean-American living in the NYC area. How that makes better qualified than German citizen Fantasy to speak about ethnic Turks in Germany is beyond me.
Bluetranslator, I can hardly keep up with all kyopo versus expat nonsense here, so I didn’t know you were getting the brunt of it. Try a PM to sheriff Oranckay if it keeps up.
I’ve seen Daussy around town a few times also and she seemed normal enough–foreigners on TV just seem to shift into goofy sycophants naturally, I guess because it’s expected of them? It’s the same on Japanese TV.
ummm try living in the US, born and raised, as a minority, im 21 and i still dont feel like i completely fit in.
It’s because you don’t use capital letters. Pawi has the same problem.
In defense of davelee: The real nuts use only CAPS.
“All they want to do is run their döner kebab shops and not make trouble.”
This may well have been true for the first generation who were generally uneducated but very, very diligent. And there was a demand for manual labour in the Germany of the 1960s and 70s.
The second generation are equally uneducated but have nevertheless realised that Germany is, unlike the US, simply not the country where you can climb the social ladder by running a small business. After all, the demand for döner kebab has met its natural limits long ago. Eating even more of that rather fatty stuff would lead to even more obesity among the population as a whole…
Other business areas in Germany are strictly regulated. To be admitted into the profession of a self-employed plumber, to give just one example, candidates would need around 7 years of part-time education, besides working as an employee in this field. Also, this kind of training can only be successfully completed by those with excellent language skills (which even the German underclass, such as the Neo-Nazis, are utterly lacking). So, no chance here for people who cannot read or write German properly.
Thus, there is a general shortage of craftsmen and their services are vastly overpriced. I find this system very silly, indeed, and have been advocating a liberalisation for years, which would benefit immigrants, as well as poorly educated natives. But the professional bodies are, of course, opposed to it, as a liberalisation would lead to increased competition and would thus diminish profits…
Small numbers of Turks or other Muslims have managed to build up businesses in unregulated areas, e.g. as owners and managers of small taxi fleets. These are the people who very quickly move out of the underclass areas, as they are themselves scared of the envy of their unemployed compatriots. I certainly wish them well…
“Turks, which comprise 2.4% of the population”
This number may well be correct, but Muslims here are not only of Turkish origin. Other groups come from Morocco, Mauretania, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Tadzhikistan, Usbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, or Kazakhstan.
In contrast, the Iranian immigrants in Germany, although they are (secular) Muslims, as well, are generally educated, affluent, and well integrated. This is due to the fact that they were, even back in Iran, among the educational élite of their society. They left Iran in the wake of the Islamic Revolution in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Many Iranians in Germany work in the medical professions…
Muslim migrants from other countries, however, came to Germany because they were unable to make a living at home; and some, particularly from Turkey, Algeria, and Morocco even left because they regarded the societies in their home countries (!) as too secular for their taste.
Thus there is the absurd result that in Turkey there is mandatory co-education for boys and girls in all subjects, including sports, whereas Muslim organisations in Germany demand that the sexes be seperated as from the age of 10. There is presently a hefty debate going on here about this issue…
Nevertheless, the unemployed Muslims here are by no means starving. Like other citizens or landed immigrants they have full access to the cornucopia of social security, at the expense of the tax payer. The only groups who are excluded from this over-generous welfare system are illegal immigrants and foreign students (such as the numerous Korean Yuhaksaeng)…
“Muslim migrants from other countries, however, came to Germany because they were unable to make a living at home; and some, particularly from Turkey, Algeria, and Morocco even left because they regarded the societies in their home countries (!) as too secular for their taste.”
That should have read:
Muslim migrants from other countries, however, came to Germany because they were unable to make a living at home; and some, particularly from Turkey, Algeria, and Morocco, even left their native countries because they regarded the societies there (!) as too secular for their taste.
The funny thing about this post is its title: Ida Daussy Speaks
It makes it sound as though the woman is known for her silence.
Dogbertt is absolutely right - the title of this post struck me as odd, as well.
I had heard about this lady’s musings already as early as 1996 when I came to Korea as a tourist.
So she has been “speaking” for quite while now…
“Would you accept honor killings in US by some Middle Eastern guy cos it’s legal in his home country?”
Since “Taxman” brought up the topic here at # 3
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/.....-its-true/
I would like to add that honour killings have developed into a very serious problem within the Muslim communities in Germany. The German authorities are still unsure how to deal with this disgusting phenomenon. Recently a German judge (female, not Muslim) told a Muslim wife that she could not speed up her divorce from her husband on the grounds that he had severely beaten her, “as this was not in contravention of Sharia law”.
Needless to say, the judge’s remarks were met with incredulity by the press, and even by some secular Muslim organisations…
That should have been:
“… told a (Moroccan) wife that she would not speed up her divorce from her (Turkish) husband on the grounds that he had severely beaten her, “as this had not been in contravention of Sharia law”.
…
Even the Moroccan government sent a protest note to Berlin, as they seem to have revamped their “Droit de la famille” quite recently and take pride in having cleared it of each and every reminiscence of Sharia law.
Thus, Bluetranslator,
when I referred to “Muslims” I was not referring to enlightened individuals like your fellow Hawai’ian Barak Obama, nor to the upper middle classes of such cosmopolitan cities as Istanbul, Casablanca, or Almaty - instead I am referring to the very specific problems some European countries have with their Muslim underclass whose children do not speak a word of the language of the countries where they have been born and live in until they start school at the age of 6 or 7, then are supposed to learn to read and write in this language they cannot even speak, usually fail to do so, start skipping classes, hanging around in the streets and molesting the passers-by.
That is what I was talking about, nothing else.
Maybe I should have made that clearer right from the start…
“Turks, which comprise 2.4% of the population”
And, Netizen, these are only the Turks who have retained their Turkish citizenship…
If they had relinquished their Turkish citizenship and had had German passports issued to them (which is only possible if they can speak reasonably comprehensible German and succeed in making a living without taking recourse to social security funds), it would, according to German law, no longer be permissible to refer to them as “Turks”…
Because then they would not be Turks any more, nor, according to German conventions, hyphenated Turkish-Germans; they would simply be Germans who could, if they so wished, disclose their Turkish roots. I know some such people - they are optically indistinguishable from the ethnic Germans…
A very impressive little lady who found the courage to speak out against the evil influence of the religuous extremists, in the face of a relentless vilification campaign conducted against her by her adversaries and those pandering to their votes.
She is certainly deserving of our admiration…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayan_Hirsi_Ali