Comments on: Asking the difficult questions http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/ Korea... in Blog Format Tue, 2 Dec 2008 23:36:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: oranckay http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80532 oranckay Sat, 28 Apr 2007 05:56:27 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80532 <blockquote>Do you know any expats who’ve lived and grew up in Korea since the age of 8?</blockquote> I know PLENTY.

Do you know any expats who’ve lived and grew up in Korea since the age of 8?

I know PLENTY.

]]> By: peninsular aborigine http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80488 peninsular aborigine Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:11:47 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80488 "Do you know any expats who’ve lived and grew up in Korea since the age of 8?" Are you talking physical or emotional age? “Do you know any expats who’ve lived and grew up in Korea since the age of 8?”

Are you talking physical or emotional age?

]]> By: Netizen Kim http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80474 Netizen Kim Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:23:06 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80474 <i>So, as an EXPAT (and keep in mind I’ve only been here for 4 years) - does that make me MORE KOREAN than American? Wait a sec - how about the EXPATS who have been in KOREA longer than they lived in the USA? Does this make them ‘culturally Korean’?</i> Do you know any expats who've lived and grew up in Korea since the age of 8? So, as an EXPAT (and keep in mind I’ve only been here for 4 years) - does that make me MORE KOREAN than American?

Wait a sec - how about the EXPATS who have been in KOREA longer than they lived in the USA? Does this make them ‘culturally Korean’?

Do you know any expats who’ve lived and grew up in Korea since the age of 8?

]]> By: grrl http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80469 grrl Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:08:27 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80469 I found Choi's piece rather lacking, and typically myopic, particularly his claim that had Cho had Korean friends, he might have felt better about himself. A more intelligent analysis would have been if he had had ANY friends, things might have turned out differently. I found Choi’s piece rather lacking, and typically myopic, particularly his claim that had Cho had Korean friends, he might have felt better about himself. A more intelligent analysis would have been if he had had ANY friends, things might have turned out differently.

]]> By: Lazy_Contractor http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80398 Lazy_Contractor Thu, 26 Apr 2007 04:20:07 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80398 RE: comment #10 (Yeah, I'm just NOW getting caught up in all the gossip.) Pawi - You serious? Blame American/Western culture for Crazy Cho's behaviour? So, as an EXPAT (and keep in mind I've only been here for 4 years) - does that make me MORE KOREAN than American? Wait a sec - how about the EXPATS who have been in KOREA longer than they lived in the USA? Does this make them 'culturally Korean'? *IF* you were being serious - and - *IF* you believe that where you RESIDE determines how you BEHAVE - then, you are retarded. IMHO. If you were being facetious, my apologies (and you wouldn't be retarded). RE: comment #10

(Yeah, I’m just NOW getting caught up in all the gossip.)

Pawi - You serious? Blame American/Western culture for Crazy Cho’s behaviour?

So, as an EXPAT (and keep in mind I’ve only been here for 4 years) - does that make me MORE KOREAN than American?

Wait a sec - how about the EXPATS who have been in KOREA longer than they lived in the USA? Does this make them ‘culturally Korean’?

*IF* you were being serious - and - *IF* you believe that where you RESIDE determines how you BEHAVE - then, you are retarded. IMHO. If you were being facetious, my apologies (and you wouldn’t be retarded).

]]> By: railwaycharm http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80363 railwaycharm Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:27:35 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80363 108. Fantasy, I respect your view. Standing down. 108.

Fantasy, I respect your view. Standing down.

]]> By: SomeguyinKorea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80344 SomeguyinKorea Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:50:46 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80344 109,110, It wouldn't be good for 'business' if she admitted doing it with him, don't you think? Besides, couldn't she have been arrested for prostitution if she admitted to it? 109,110,

It wouldn’t be good for ‘business’ if she admitted doing it with him, don’t you think? Besides, couldn’t she have been arrested for prostitution if she admitted to it?

]]> By: Wedge http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80337 Wedge Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:49:48 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80337 #113 and 114: Skin color is associated with socio-economic level here and in other parts of Asia. Look at the old black and white photos of this place. All the coolies are quite dark skinned while the yangbangers are generally people of pallor. Nowadays, look at the ajummas in the fields trying to cover every square inch of flesh. It has nothing to do with the advent of whitey. #113 and 114: Skin color is associated with socio-economic level here and in other parts of Asia. Look at the old black and white photos of this place. All the coolies are quite dark skinned while the yangbangers are generally people of pallor. Nowadays, look at the ajummas in the fields trying to cover every square inch of flesh. It has nothing to do with the advent of whitey.

]]> By: Fantasy http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80333 Fantasy Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:54:23 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80333 "...the tendency of some Koreans to look down on darker skinned people. Where does that come from?" I was surprised about this, as well. In Singapore I experienced nothing of the sort, although I was, of course, darker than the Chinese majority population... "I tend to think that maybe it’s because this country has a strong tradition of class consciousness going back to the Chosun dynasty, and that the poorest guys were probably darker because they were out working in the fields all day." Yes, I surely think that this explanation partly accounts for the phenomenon... In the past, Koreans seem to have used the relative lightness of their skin to distinguish themselves from the Japanese and the Chinese who seem (except in the extreme north of China), on average, to be slightly darker than they themselves are. And this desire to ascribe an element of "foreignness" to people with skin that was only slightly darker may well have reinforced the above-mentioned prejudice. According to this logic this would then apply to a much larger extent to people who are really dark-skinned (such as myself). Some racism experts maintain that the discrimination of those with darker skin is a universal phenomenon. And, indeed, it seems to be possible to did up a such a tendency in a wide variety of cultures. In Europe, however, the ideal of beauty has fundamentally changed since the 1970s. While people generally would not want to look as dark as I do, being "too light" (some call it derisively "cheese-light") is definitely not an asset, neither for men, nor for women, as this is regarded as the manifestation of a supposedly unhealthy "nerdish" lifestyle, characterised by long hours spent over books or in front of the computer, with little physical activity and without much of a social life... And, while being naturally straw blond is still an advantage, even in Europe, for an actor (m/f) aspiring to little more than to play the teenage lover (m/f), in later life this asset turns into a handicap, as it might exclude him/her from being given the chance to excel in genuine "character roles". Fortunately, the problem can be solved by the use of a little hair dye. “…the tendency of some Koreans to look down on darker skinned people. Where does that come from?”

I was surprised about this, as well. In Singapore I experienced nothing of the sort, although I was, of course, darker than the Chinese majority population…

“I tend to think that maybe it’s because this country has a strong tradition of class consciousness going back to the Chosun dynasty, and that the poorest guys were probably darker because they were out working in the fields all day.”

Yes, I surely think that this explanation partly accounts for the phenomenon…

In the past, Koreans seem to have used the relative lightness of their skin to distinguish themselves from the Japanese and the Chinese who seem (except in the extreme north of China), on average, to be slightly darker than they themselves are. And this desire to ascribe an element of “foreignness” to people with skin that was only slightly darker may well have reinforced the above-mentioned prejudice. According to this logic this would then apply to a much larger extent to people who are really dark-skinned (such as myself).

Some racism experts maintain that the discrimination of those with darker skin is a universal phenomenon. And, indeed, it seems to be possible to did up a such a tendency in a wide variety of cultures.

In Europe, however, the ideal of beauty has fundamentally changed since the 1970s. While people generally would not want to look as dark as I do, being “too light” (some call it derisively “cheese-light”) is definitely not an asset, neither for men, nor for women, as this is regarded as the manifestation of a supposedly unhealthy “nerdish” lifestyle, characterised by long hours spent over books or in front of the computer, with little physical activity and without much of a social life…

And, while being naturally straw blond is still an advantage, even in Europe, for an actor (m/f) aspiring to little more than to play the teenage lover (m/f), in later life this asset turns into a handicap, as it might exclude him/her from being given the chance to excel in genuine “character roles”. Fortunately, the problem can be solved by the use of a little hair dye.

]]> By: dokdoforever http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80332 dokdoforever Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:43:58 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/asking-the-difficult-questions/#comment-80332 First of all - any discussion about 'whose racism is worse' is just pointless. ANY kind of racism is unacceptable, and always painful to the person who receives it. If anything those of us who experience racism in one country should be able to empathize with people who experience it somewhere else. Sometimes I think that the world is divided less by nationality than by awareness level - those who are interested in the rest of the world vs. closed-minded ignorant types. And I think most of us here are in the first group. Foreigners emphasize racism in Korea because it's not very well known, and many Koreans continue to deny it, because some of them may not even really understand the concept - having encountered only one race for most of their lives. In some ways Koreans are a bit like New Yorkers, and it's necessary to fight back verbally as JK has pointed out - on the other hand it's pointless, and tiring, to chase down every slight and try to singlehandedly educate the whole country. Korea really needs some multi-cultural or diversity awareness training, starting in the schools. On a related question, one which Fantasy might be able to enlighten me about - one thing I still don't understand (lived here on and off since 1992) is the tendency of some Koreans to look down on darker skinned people. Where does that come from? And, I don't really believe the explanation I sometimes get here that they 'learned' it from Americans. Japanese didn't seem to learn it from Americans. At least I've heard stories that Japanese women go for black guys. I tend to think that maybe it's because this country has a strong tradition of class consciousness going back to the Chosun dynasty, and that the poorest guys were probably darker because they were out working in the fields all day. Hence many older Korean women still use parasols to try to keep their skin looking white. But it seems so strange since Koreans never had much contact with people from S Asia until the last decade or so. Any comments? First of all - any discussion about ‘whose racism is worse’ is just pointless. ANY kind of racism is unacceptable, and always painful to the person who receives it. If anything those of us who experience racism in one country should be able to empathize with people who experience it somewhere else. Sometimes I think that the world is divided less by nationality than by awareness level - those who are interested in the rest of the world vs. closed-minded ignorant types. And I think most of us here are in the first group.

Foreigners emphasize racism in Korea because it’s not very well known, and many Koreans continue to deny it, because some of them may not even really understand the concept - having encountered only one race for most of their lives.

In some ways Koreans are a bit like New Yorkers, and it’s necessary to fight back verbally as JK has pointed out - on the other hand it’s pointless, and tiring, to chase down every slight and try to singlehandedly educate the whole country. Korea really needs some multi-cultural or diversity awareness training, starting in the schools.

On a related question, one which Fantasy might be able to enlighten me about - one thing I still don’t understand (lived here on and off since 1992) is the tendency of some Koreans to look down on darker skinned people. Where does that come from? And, I don’t really believe the explanation I sometimes get here that they ‘learned’ it from Americans. Japanese didn’t seem to learn it from Americans. At least I’ve heard stories that Japanese women go for black guys. I tend to think that maybe it’s because this country has a strong tradition of class consciousness going back to the Chosun dynasty, and that the poorest guys were probably darker because they were out working in the fields all day. Hence many older Korean women still use parasols to try to keep their skin looking white. But it seems so strange since Koreans never had much contact with people from S Asia until the last decade or so. Any comments?

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