Update: I just want to point out that this post was made by me (Andy Jackson), not Rob Koehler, the owner of this fine blog. Some folks don’t read the names at the end of the post. Also, I am in no way advocating violence of any kind against anyone (I meant “bitch slap” in the rhetorical sense).
Original Post: I’m going to leave the psychology of all the talk about Koreans and Korean-Americans fearing backlash to others. I just wanted to share a few headlines:
- Braced for Backlash: Newsweek
- Korean students afraid of backlash on campus: The Daily Princetonian
- Defined by Horror: Korean-Americans fear backlash: ABC News
- Korean-Americans fear massacre backlash: UPI
- Local Korean-Americans Fear Backlash: KNSD-TV (San Diego)
- S.Korea worries about racial backlash after shooting: Reuters
- Koreans fear backlash over campus tragedy: Deseret News
And, for a little variety:
- Asians fear backlash after shooting: News.com
Of course, none of this would be complete without a word from the Angry Asian Man.
So, the next time you hear someone state his fear of a backlash over the VT killings, take him by the hand, lead him aside, give him an empathetic look in the eyes…
…and bitch-slap him.
Hopefully that will shake the silliness out of him.
While I have little doubt that there will be a relatively small group of idiots who will respond in a stupid way to what that nutjob did at VT, there will not be protests in the streets against resident Koreans in the USA. Korean-Americans will not be banned from restaurants and shops. If anyone writes anti-Korean songs, most people will never hear them.
The BacklashTM is just not going to happen.
I am sure will see reports of taunts against Asians and some fighting in schools. Kids tend have a natural tendency to pick on those who are different and will go after red heads, fat kids, kids of different races and others (Children must be taught not to hate.). When kids want to pick on someone else, they use whatever reason they can find and the VT shooting is a ready-to-use excuse.
I do worry that some nut job will decide to attack a Korean church instead of the local post office. The body count would be the same but the racial angle will make it big news over here.
I also know that any incident that occurs is going to get hyped by people who want to play the “Asian-Americans as victims” card.
The fact is that most people in the US these days see non-first-generation Asian-Americans as just folk. In fact the interracial marriage rates for American natives of Asian decent show that they are integrating just fine. If and when East Asian immigration slows down, a lot of the difficulties between Asians and other groups in the States will diminish. Ethnic Asian American natives are not the model minority (a term only used by people who deride it), they are an integrated part of American society.
(In any case the real ‘model minority’ is immigrants from Africa.)
This is not just academic for me. The college where I work sends over a hundred students to the States to study every year. In fact, another group of about 25 (including about 10 from my department) is going there next week. If there was a reasonable chance that they would be attacked, we would not send them.
A similar message is getting out in the Korean media. Last night, among other reports, MBC news had a piece with interviews of VT students, all of whom said that what Cho did was not a reflection on ethnic Koreans.
Let’s hope that the same logic prevails among everyone.
{ 95 comments }
I guess that is a different kind of backlash and not the regular kind.
OK, look, I don’t think we’ll see a “backlash,” per say, but I still don’t find it unreasonable for Asian-Americans to get at least a little nervous that certain individuals might seize upon the issue to do them harm.
white police officers beat black man senseless. white jury finds white cops innocent. blacks go on rampage against koreans.
koreans are absolutely right to be vigilent. they didn’t worry when the above happened and they got their stores burned down because of it.
now, if korean folk can become racial targets of an incident that didn’t even involve them, i don’t think it’s too hard to understand why they fear they may become targets again since the vt incident is actually tied to the k community.
lastly, you may be able to point out that there will be no mass demonstrations in the street of the us and then start talking about the tank incident, but then, koreans can point out the la riots and the siding of white people with those blacks who looted, burned, and murdered.
i know you love korea, mr jackson. i wrote the above respectfully.
I’m not quite up to speed on this whole Backlash issue. Can someone fill me in so I can give an informed opinion?
What’s next? Some liberal white Americans getting down on their hands and knees and apologizing to Korea for the (non-existent) backlash? Korea demanding an apology for the (non-existent) backlash? Maybe the US could pay reparations.
Koreans don’t have to apologize for the actions of this pathetic loser and Americans won’t have to apologize for the backlash because there won’t be one.
‘Can someone fill me in so I can give an informed opinion?’ blue
there is no backlash. now you are filled in. but if i were near someone like you with the things you say about koreans, i’d be very vigilent, blue.
korean are right to be on the lookout.
“. . . So, the next time you hear someone state his fear of a backlash over the VT killings, take him by the hand, lead him aside, give him an empathetic look in the eyes……and bitch-slap him.”
Heh, so elegantly put.
‘for the (non-existent) backlash’ snow
‘koreans fear backlash.’ headlines
you can’t see the difference between the two?
[snort]
I do not know any white people who sided with them, so I hope you are not claiming we did as a whole.
In fact, I spoke with many white people (and others) who admired Koreans for their brave attempts to protect themselves and their families.
However, unsurprisingly, your analysis of the L.A. riots is facile. You disingenuously claim that “Korean folk were targets of an incident that didn’t even involve them.”
The facts, which you well know, is that black people had been building up grudges against Koreans for years, whether justified or not. Your statement is dishonest.
As just one example (and I know because I lived in Los Angeles at the time), blacks were incensed that a Korean woman shot and killed a black teenage girl, yet served no time in jail. This was contemporaneous with the Rodney King incident and is widely acknowledged as one of the triggers of the riots in 1992.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latasha_Harlins
Honestly, I sympathized very much with Koreans at that time, but I will call you on it if you try to paint Koreans as passive bystanders — rightly or wrongly, their presence and actions as a group had significant influence on race relations in Los Angeles, as well as elsewhere in the United States where they settled in large numbers.
Frankly I do not see “going Cho Seung” replacing “postal” anytime soon.
Tom Wolfe’s new book will be “Radical Kimchi and Han-Haning the Weiguk Nom”
If only.
“‘for the (non-existent) backlash’ snow
‘koreans fear backlash.’ headlines
you can’t see the difference between the two?”
I can see a big difference. Fear of a backlash is certainly different than an actual backlash. Why all the fear? There isn’t a backlash now and there won’t be.
Andy,
Uh…a little more sensitivity, please. I have to side with Rob on this one, at least in how you should couch this rhetorically. While I also agree that a large media/general cultural backlash is not forthcoming, I think that there are going to be plenty of individual Korean-Americans who suffer as a direct result of this–which we seem to agree on. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that only 1% of the American population has a problem distinguishing between the acts of Cho Seung-Hui and all Koreans; that still leaves 3 million people to cause trouble. Suppose you have a quiet Korean male in high school who is already something of a 왕따/alienated kid–you can be sure this is going to up the amount of teasing he’s going to get, and significantly. I doubt “going Cho” will replace “going postal” in the American vernacular, but I’d be astonished if there aren’t Korean-American kids who start getting called “Cho” or whatever.
As a parent to a half-Korean child, I’d be concerned for the treatment she’d get at school if we happened to be in the US at the moment. She might be well-adjusted, have lots of friends, and a good support network, but all it takes is a couple of assholes to make school life miserable, and I think you’ll concede that there is no shortage of those around. You might hope that the same logic as displayed by VT students prevails among everyone, but it’s not going to happen.
There seems to be a lot of concern about Korean Americans getting picked on in school.
Last I checked, 32 innocent people were killed by a psychopath. I haven’t heard a single word of sympathy for those victims and their families in any of the conversations I’ve had here in Korea.
I accept the fact that people feel bad about the victims as a given. It may be naive, but I try to use a principle of charity that takes it for granted that that sympathy exists. If that feeling didn’t exist, then why are these people making such a hullaballo about this?
I know that someone could answer something about nationalism, face, or whatever. All I’m saying is that an analysis of people’s behavior and motives would eventually lead to sympathy as the root cause.
I think there was enough bitch-slap in blueballs’ input over the past few days for each of the 75 million Koreans on the planet. Only the truly thick of skull will not be disabused of the notion of a backlash by now — which of course means the Korea Times and select commentators will still be talking about it.
To paraphrase: I think sympathy is implicit even when not explicitly stated.
I hope these posts don’t come off as overly-gullible or as if I’ve fallen under the suasion of some kind of goofball cult/religion.
#16, No kidding about blueballs. Would not like to meet him in a dark verbal alley.
Sam Kinison without the screaming.
“The fact is that most people in the US these days see non-first-generation Asian-Americans as just folk.”
where can one buy tickets to this idealistic fantasy land you speak of? sounds like a great place to live.
“lastly, you may be able to point out that there will be no mass demonstrations in the street of the us and then start talking about the tank incident, but then, koreans can point out the la riots and the siding of white people with those blacks who looted, burned, and murdered.”
My uncle and his neighbors – mostly white – in LA were definitely siding with the Koreans defending their homes and businesses against the rioters. He actually told me that he came to admire Koreans more as a result. If you think the average person in LA was in favor of looting, arson, and murder in their city – white people in particular – I think you’re mistaken.
Pronounced “per say”, but spelled:
“per se”
One of those “straight from the Latin” usages; often found in a legal terminology context (for examples see Merriam webster online law dictionary, included in search results at dictionary.com).
adverb
with respect to its inherent nature; “this statement is interesting per se” [syn: intrinsically]
This correction is offered in all humility, as the one entry here that might possibly have an effect on somebody (on our esteemed host, who deserves to be above all reproach on matters linguistic).
Cho’s childhood background in the NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin.....ref=slogin
A different view of Cho from a Korean childhood friend in Fairfax:
http://joongangdaily.joins.com.....id=2874668
That childhood friend seems a little off, calling it nonsense to call Cho a loner but then describing someone who shunned conversation and could have been popular but chose to be aloof.
One thing is for sure and that is the Korean media will play up all real and perceived backlash crimes. The media is so important in shaping public opinion. In the 1990s Americans thought the crime rate was going up in actuality the crime rate went down. People only thought the crime rate went up because of the “if it bleeds it leads” mentality of the media at the time.
There is something like a million Koreans or people of Korean decent living in the U.S. Statistically a certain percentage of them will be a victim of a crime. And yes some might even be teased or picked on at school. I fully expect the Korean media to put every crime or teased child under a microscope and angle it as a backlash. The media will create a “backlash” even if one does not exist.
Koreans Gather, Prepare for Backlash
Flushing, New York – Pastor Nam leads this reporter down several flights of stairs and unlocks the vault door.
Entombed in a 30′ by 30′ subterranean bunker of Pastor’s Nam church are several hundred Koreans, quietly whispering among themselves in the dark. “They fear speaking in their normal voices,” whispers Pastor Nam, “because the American vigilantes may hear them.”
“It’s the backlash. It’s already happening. The Korean embassy warned us.”
The bluish glow of the TV casts an ominous glow on their faces. Playing on the TV are scenes from Schindler’s List. The Koreans pay particular attention to the scene of the Jews hiding during the Nazi raid of Krakow’s Jewish ghetto. “They learn,” explains Pastor Nam, “to not hide under the bed.”
Once lauded as America’s “model minority” today’s Koreans compare themselves to Nazi Germany’s Jews.
“You tell world, Jew only problem one time. Korea people many time problem,” states a man who asked to be identified only as “Mr. Rhee.”
Where are the Customers?
At the Happy Endings Massage & Health Center “Mimi” (not her real name) takes a long drag of her cigarette, exhales, and sighs, “Chaesu upso.”
A 32-year-old Korean native, “Mimi” flips through the channels, briefly watching news reports of Virginia Tech’s tragedy and then settling on a Korean drama.
“Yesterday business no good. Today business no good. Me no customers. Foreigner only want Thailand girl.”
“Mimi” explains that on a normal day she sees twenty customers. Since the shooting her clientele has dropped ten percent.
“Foreigner no want Korea lady now. Backlashy”
School Ground Bullying
Gym class at George Washington Carver middle School; Korean-American Brian Eum is in tears. He classmates are picking teams for a game of kickball.
Physical Education teacher Ken Streeter attempts to console him.
“Normally Brian’s the second to last picked,” says Streeter. “Today he’s certain that the kid with cerebral palsy will be picked before him. He keeps stating, “It’s the backlash.”"
The Community Center
The Hangook Action Network (HAN) is abuzz. Dozens of staffers work the phones.
“Stay inside. Lock the doors. Turn off the lights,” instructs one.
Another staffer states, “Yes, HAN thinks it advisable to make reservations for a flight to Korea.”
Overheard is a third: “Yes, you definitely need to withdraw your daughter from Berkeley.”
A few staffers update a white board on which the names of all HAN members is written. Beside each name is a status. Hiding. Returned to Korea. Unknown.
HAN director Milton Kim urges his staff to work faster. “Bali bali!” he barks in Korean.
Pausing for a moment, Kim states, “I always knew this day would come. Fortunately we’ve planned and rehearsed. Since LA’s Black Riots HAN made it a point of calling all our members three times a day, every day, to monitor the situation and issue warnings.”
Kim explains, “We always expect the worst from others, and we’re always proven right. We know what the Americans are thinking. And it’s revenge with a capital “R”.”
Kim continues, “Why would the police and the media call him Cho Seung-Hui? Why, I ask you? Because they want to emphasize his Korean-ness…to make us targets.”
Asked about the victims of the shooting Kim states, “It’s too bad. But it was only 32. There are over 1.5 million Koreans here, and we face the backlash.”
I watched the LA riots from Japan, and the sympathies of everyone I was with then were with the Koreans caught in the maelstrom, even with the recognition that there were incidents of (at least perceived) Korean racism toward blacks that may have stoked mob anger.
I say this more in sorrow than anything else, but I’m afraid that almost all of pawi/nulji’s observations about everything have to be taken with a similarly huge dollop of salt.
Of course there is reason to worry that someone might hurt someone in retaliation.
I think it is human nature to feel like a backlash is happening. I remember in 2002 whenever anyone was rude to me, bumped into me, or looked at me funny, it was because of the death of the middle school girls and they were anti-american. And yes there were a few extreme occurences when I knew for a fact it was due to the middle school girls deaths. A funny event, looking back on it, was when I was going into some rest stop and seeing a sea of activists on their way to one of the many candlelight vigils of the weekend. Some woman jokingly said within earshot that we could just protest here since they have an American in the building. Being looked at that way by 2000 people did give me the jitters. 3 or 4 ugly events did occur. But 95% of the lesser stuff still happens to me today and I don’t think it is some backlash. It is just some idiot glued to his cell phone not looking where he is going and bumps into me, not some anti-american.
seouldout- funny stuff
“but then, koreans can point out the la riots and the siding of white people with those blacks who looted, burned, and murdered.”
racist crap
“What’s next? Some liberal white Americans getting down on their hands and knees and apologizing to Korea for the (non-existent) backlash?”
that’s funny
seouldout- funny stuff
hilarious
“I remember in 2002 whenever anyone was rude to me, bumped into me, or looked at me funny, it was because of the death of the middle school girls and they were anti-american.”
Turns out the summer of 2002 was pretty cool. What I remember of it is that we spent the summer partying with our friends (Canadian English teachers, American soldiers, and Korean friends, wives, and girlfriends…many total strangers). Last I saw one of my American friends that summer, he was sticking his head out of the sunroof of some stranger’s car, waving the Korean flag while shouting, “Daehan Minkuk! Chak chak chak chak chak!” (Yeah, he was a total goof ball. Partying with him was never dull). The guy truly loved Korea and was doing his darnedest to be a good ambassador in light of the growing anti-Americanism…that and he was from New Orleans, so he knew how to let the good times roll.
Seouldout, you should work for The Yangpa. Hilarious.
“Turns out the summer of 2002 was pretty cool”
Yea I guess I should have been more specific. Koreans couldn’t care less during the world cup. It wasn’t until fall when things got nasty. Also, I find that things are much more political in Seoul. I’ve lived in and out of Seoul and there is less political friction outside of Seoul.
we need to go back to the basics. fear of backlash is not neccesarily the extreme “there will be anti-asian riots everywhere!” rather, it’s the expectation of provoked racism. it’s defensiveness. this is certainly not an invalid thing anywhere in the human condition. this is not supposed to be anti-american thing.
also, the direction of fit is wrong. fear isn’t a prediction. it’s not supposed to be a quantitative stance on what indeed is going to happen, and it’s not as coarse as “i hope my house doesn’t get wrecked”. it doesn’t have to be so extreme.
it’s not for nothing that other minority groups were heaving sighs of relief when they found out that the killer wasn’t one of them. lots of people can sympathize with a fear of backlash, and indeed the only people who criticize it or, worse, try to portray it as a defect of the korean imagination most likely are those who are not asian, and have never grown up dealing with racism themselves. also as if i have to mention it, “dealing with racism” isn’t supposed to be something as crass as “today racists try to fist fight me, and i’ve got the bruise to prove it.” this is a profound socio-cultural issue.
and let’s not forget that in the beginning before cho’s sick demented mind was revealed the only thing anyone knew of him was that he was a “south korean resident alien”
i don’t know the link but i have the text. here’s an article i like about this:
Speaking of the Korean imagination, has anyone bothered to mention the 1923 Kanto Earthquake massacre of Koreans in Japan?
This is from wiki:
34/36: Yes, the summer of ‘02 was probably pretty cool, what with the World Cup and all. The summer of ‘97 must have been pretty nice, too, for that matter, in the weeks or months before Kia and the Thai Baht brought half the East Asian economy to a standstill, and shattered the illusion of eternal heady days of unlimited economic growth.
I wished that summer I that I was in Seoul soaking it all up, but when I finally got there in December, it was a whole different story. There were the endless protests over the Uijeongbu incident, but that had also been the autumn when it became clear that the Norks had been pursuing a clandestine nuke program in violation of the Agreed Framework. Then Roh got elected and continued on the downward spiral that Kim Dae-jung had started (who got elected in the depths of the ‘97 economic crisis).
I have to admit, when I found out that the shooter was Korean it made me feel even worse.
It seemed illogical to me that I’d feel shamed by the ethnicity of the shooter. Some of my thoughts:
http://hangooksummer.blogspot......me_21.html
When the public announcement of the identity and the race of the shooter happened A Chinese co-worker of mine suddenly got off the phone and told me, “Did you hear the news? The guy who shot all those people in the US was a Korean, not Chinese”. She had heard the news from another Chinese co-worker who had read it in the Chinese language news. There were some earlier rumors that the shooter was a Chinese man, and the Chinese government was bracing for the worst news. A sigh of relief came over her face as she said this.
Why speak of the Korean imagination? We can speak of real Korean actions, for example the slaughter of Chinese.
Whoops, that ain’t too helpful. Nevermind.
@ sewing, actually the summer of 1997 wasn’t all that great. Then the economy tanked. Initially everyone was pretty pissed, but someone must’ve gotten the word out to be nice to foreigners. They have hard currency, you know. Easiest time ever to get a taxi. No more deliberate bumping. Not crowded-street, accidental bumping, but the kind where an oaf would angle right at you. No more of that throat clearing “ack” done beside my ear. Lots of civility for about 6 months.
If you like repetitive “Dae Han Min Gook” chants you would have loved the summer of 2002.
maybe it’s because you guys are white and some of us are not. You are in massive denial of the fact that there are some idiots out there.
Black people, Muslims, East Asian, Latin Americanyou name it. Massive murder rampage by a minority on the news, they all say
” Oh Dear God, I hope it’s not one from my group.”
Why? What do you mean why?
Morons come up to you and ask, hey, explain why this happenned, you’re a minority. You know him personally, right? Uh, no.
Even one US Korean who gets shot, robbed, or verbally abused (already happenned in many isolated incidents) by some idiot over this matter, in the next coming days is enough worry over this matter. Already, people have done what some of you have experienced in Korea. You know, the look, the talk you can hear, etc.
Small number, very low frequency of incidents, yes.
Most Americans are good people.
Howevever, why does it happen at all?
Hmm?
I admit that is was way worser for you all in Korea post 2002.
Both are wrong. It’s basically the majority population bullying over the minority population. Never right.
I have nothing against anyone.
I’m just stating what exists. Don’t deny it.
Here’s the proper link to the article by Sandy Banks, posted above:
http://www.latimes.com/news/na.....-headlines
Overall Koreans’ worries about a backlash are needless but I do agree that there may be random incidents of ignorant white Americans backlashing against Koreans, but to say that the average American – much the average ignorant one – can tell the difference between a Korean and any other person of Asian descent is just plain dumb. For every Korean person who catches grief, there’s going to be a Chinese person who does too.
After having lived in Seoul from 1995 to 2006 and enjoying the IMF crisis, Apollo Ono, No-jungri, the tank accident and other assorted pleasantries, my take on the whole thing is that Koreans are worried about a backlash becuase they know that if the situation was somehow reversed (a 23 year-old American who’d lived in Seoul for 20 years and was a full Korean citizen slaughtering innocents), you’d find a critical mass of Koreans backlashing against America and Americans.
ps: The links posted in the op are not “backlash against the fear of backlash”. In addition, none of them indicate that Koreans are worried about “en masse” retaliation by “Americans”.
So why do folk on these blogs always characterize this that way? It’s a strawman.
“It wasn’t until fall when things got nasty. ”
Yes, unfortunately, the anti-American element did not waste any time in taking advantage of nationalistic sentiment created by the Korean teams performance at the World Cup (one sociologist has described the pre-game rallies as an “experience in fascism”). As a result, many young and naive Koreans were easily manipulated by its agitprop.
“After having lived in Seoul from 1995 to 2006 and enjoying the IMF crisis, Apollo Ono, No-jungri, the tank accident and other assorted pleasantries, my take on the whole thing is that Koreans are worried about a backlash becuase they know that if the situation was somehow reversed (a 23 year-old American who’d lived in Seoul for 20 years and was a full Korean citizen slaughtering innocents), you’d find a critical mass of Koreans backlashing against America and Americans.”
Yes, I wonder if that’s what motivates their fears. At least, I know that a backlash would take place in the Korean media. Introspection often seems like a foreign word to the Korean media.
But, as my friend was saying, it’s better to ignore all that. There will be stupid people trying to ruin it for everyone, no matter what happens. The Korean nutizens who have been posting hateful comments about those hateful Americans probably posted hateful comments about those gun crazy Americans when it was revealed that one Korean was shot and then posted about those crazy Chinese when some people suspected that he was Chinese.
Wow, that’s a lot of hateful people and hateful comments. I posted that one a bit too quickly.
Just to add,
I don’t think most Koreans think there will be a ‘backflash’. I’d be ready to bet that the vast majority who do are the nutizens who would love for a backflash to occur. It would give them something to latch on to for the next 6 months or so.
‘Backflash’? Must have been a Freudian slip…the idea of a backlash backfired.
Alright, enough with the multiple posts. I swear…fingers crossed.
“He has made the world weep. We are living a nightmare.” Sun-Kyung Cho, sister of Seung-Hui Cho.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/.....index.html
I truly feel sorry for all the families, including his.
The grief that Cho’s family is experiencing I can’t fathom. So many questions running through their minds. I’m not getting into a comparison of who grieves more, but the families of the victims have the support and comfort of the community. And the Cho family? How isolated they are. In seclusion, yet having to arrange their son’s funeral. The glare of the camera lights. Their son’s name and face in every news report. And when the next school shooting happens, and it will, they’ll relive it. How does one get through this? Do they ever? I pray that their friends and family stick by them.
Interesting piece in the JoongAng today:
http://news.naver.com/news/rea.....enu_id=104
Haha Stupid Americans:
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum.....p?t=522175
Ah, what fine people Koreans are. The above is a message board dedicated to soccer, but has a non-soccer forum, where Koreans discuss issues in English.
Persecution syndrome seems to be extremely strong with the Koreans.
Then there’s this thread on the same board where they discuss the shooting as the news is happening. First concerns when the killer is ID’d as Korean seem to be visa access, and their image. Quite a ways before anyone expresses sorrow.
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum.....p?t=520119
@abcdefg:
Next time please just give us the link and an intro, rather than cutting and pasting the entire long article.
Thanks for the interesting aticle link, Robert. I recommend you bump it to the top of the page.
Sonagi—You’re welcome. I might do that.
nyavogo—Hey, look, I can link to people saying inflammatory stuff, too!
http://vdare.com/pb/070418_vt.htm
The difference being, of course, that unlike a couple of kids fucking around on a website nobody’s heard of, this person is dead serious about what he writes.
Actually, it’s the 58th busiest board in the world. About 1000X the visitors as that right-wing nut job site you posted. Also, your link is the opinion of a single non-Korean person apparently. My link shows a cross-section of Koreans interacting, and that is what I find interesting. I’m sure if I visited some skinhead site, there would be plenty of white guy opinions. That’s not interesting. Maybe my first link is just a misguided kid, but the second link is more interesting as it is in real-time during the event.
nyavogo—You’re right. My bad. Despite the fact that it’s an English-language website about soccer and both links look like its the same people talking over and over again, I’m sure it’s a perfectly representative cross-section of the Korean community, both in Korea and the United States. Certainly representative enough to make snide generalizations about “what fine people Koreans are.”
You know what the real sad thing is? That BBS was a lot better behaved than by comment section.
You know what the real sad thing is? That BBS was a lot better behaved than by comment section.
Ouch, Robert!
The backlash is most evident on this Blog. The moral shortfall is Koreans and Korean Americans jumping through their collective asses wishing and hoping that it was indeed a Chinese person who committed this atrocity. The fact of the matter is normal people see this as a tragedy. Koreans who can think past their own myopic identities see it for what it is as well. The people who fear backlashes are indeed bomb throwers in their own right. I am embarrassed for my neighbors who can not find true empathy in their hearts. Much of my adopted country has a long way to go before its voice changes, short hairs sprout, and adult values are ubiquitous.
http://www.xanga.com/crazeemic.....inted.html
JK, I find the veracity of your source suspect. Crazeemichi looks naught and if I had the chance I would throw her over my knee and give her such a spanking.
naughty.. see I got all twiterpated!
That’s redundant. It should be evident that’s what I would have done. I did indicate that I didn’t have a link for the article then. And if I had the link, I would have posted the link only the first time around. Unless Robert has a “no posting articles under any condition” rule that I should be aware of.
I was able to find the link in two seconds by googling. Robert has no rules against posting entire articles but it is basic blog netiquette. We commenters don’t pay for the bandwidth. The wiki article, btw, was already linked on a related thread.
railwaycharm, there is this very bad stereotype that many Asians (as well as white) people have of the white Western expat male: Arrogant, complaining about racism from Koreans, refusing to acknowledge that Koreans and other Asians go through anywhere NEAR the racism that white people endure in Asian countries, and condescendingly dismissing Koreans and other Asians that complain of racism as immature and “suspect.” Along with this stereotype is that the only thing Western expats like about Koreans and other Asian people are the young women. I find this stereotype abhorrent (but not always wrong either just like I find the stereotypes about kyopos here perpetuated by some commenters on this blog to be abhorrent but not always wrong).
People like fantasy have gone out of their way to show that not all Westerners who are married to or dating Korean women are like this, and I appreciate his honesty and effort. Then commenters like you leave comments as you did in #66 in response to mine in #65,
“JK, I find the veracity of your source suspect. Crazeemichi looks naught and if I had the chance I would throw her over my knee and give her such a spanking.”
…and then suddenly I see why Westerners have the stereotypes that they have in relation to Asian people, Asian complaints of racism, and Asian young women. Truly sad.
If you’re so concerned about bandwidth, then save yourself the trouble of stating the obvious. Posting links instead of full text when those links are available is par for the course. I know it well and don’t need the Joe Shmoes to point the way.
JK,
What I personally don’t like about railwaycharm’s comments is that he/she seems way too eager to take any statement by any Korean and condemn “Koreans” wholesale for it. The generalization doesn’t have to be explicit, but the mood is there inasmuch as the comments are written in terms of “Koreans” this or “Koreans” that. If some kyopo commenter comes around here and posts up something really stupid, I’d prefer it that the condemnation be addressed to that commenter only.
Jk, abcdefg,
A little maturity please. The 66 comment was partially comic relief, when it comes to the spanking part. It also points out how thin-skinned certain Korean/Americans can be when it comes to describing how some of their countrymen behave. Don’t try and single me out because of what many of the posters on this Blog have come across in many years on theROK. Boy’s, come to terms.
“Along with this stereotype is that the only thing Western expats like about Koreans and other Asian people are the young women.”
JK has got a real point here. Although I have fished for (and have eventually caught) a young Korean wife myself, I am definitely not in favour of exoticising and eroticising young Asian females. My wife has never been an “exotic” creature for me – instead I felt, right from when we met for the first time, that I had found my soulmate, and indeed I have…
Asian women should be seen as individuals, with all the potential for strengths and weaknesses that individuals have; they should not be stereotyped…
While I’ve never had a girlfriend who was not Asian, and while I admit that I’ve started conversations with women just because they were Asian, I also can honestly say that I’ve invariably finished any such conversation (of course in a manner that, as I sincerely hope, has not caused hurt feelings), upon finding out that I did not really like anything else about this particular lady than her Asian looks. And I’ve walked away even in cases when the respective women strongly encouraged me to stay and continue chatting with them, and maybe even expected me to take further steps…
Railwaycharm, generally I like your comments quite much, but the remark of yours JK is referring to has an unpleasant ring to it. It strengthens one of the most wide-spread stereotypes that Asian people hold about us Non-Asian men. And such a reinforcement of our bad reputation (justified or not) cannot possibly be in our best interest. If we present ourselves as “asiaphiles” who merely pander to Asian looks we might thereby attract a certain kind of Asian lady who enjoys being popular with Western men merely on account of being Asian and being good-looking. But at the same time we might put off other women who do not at all enjoy receiving attention due to their “exotic” appearance.
Actually, this is of no relevance to me any more, as I am already happily married…
I have a few questions:
Was Cho-shi German? no
Was he Mexican? no
Was he Japanese? no (sorry Korea)
Was he Korean? YES
Therefore he will be known as a Korean. End of story. What is the problem? I’m sure if you check his passport and all Immigration Documents you will find his name is Cho Seung Hui. I’m also sure that the authorities checked all his paperwork before they released his name, which was released a day later. It has also been stated that an ethnic Korean police officer advised them to pronounce his name in the Korean way. So stop bitching about it. Every story in the newspapers here about anyone who does anything remotely worthwhile that is even distantly related to anything Korea is Korean.
Cho-shi was a poor unfortunate mentally ill kid who lost his rag and went over the cliff. Korea you have to live with both the good and the bad. Unfortunately the Korean press could not bury this story of a Korean gone bad like they do almost every other one. The South Korean public should take all the energy they are wasting on bitching about the American press coverage of a name, and maybe start bitching about the best known Korean of this Generation, The Dear Leader to the North.
In Summary,
He was Korean. His name was Cho Seung Hui. End of story.
Fantasy wrote:
“While I’ve never had a girlfriend who was not Asian”
…
If we present ourselves as “asiaphiles” who merely pander to Asian looks …
Hmmm. This blog is inflamed enough from the VT shootings threads, so I’ll resist the urge to comment on your selective dating and mating, Fantasy.
Fantasy, take two, they are small.
Sonagi, it’s personal choice. And Fantasy is allowed any choice for himself that he wants. We ALL have that right.
Railwaycharm, WHO is small? Anyway, I hope you had to time re-think your comments. I am sure you did.
She leaves her xanga open … braver than you, jk.
JK wrote:
“Sonagi, it’s personal choice. And Fantasy is allowed any choice for himself that he wants. We ALL have that right.”
My goodness, JK, swift to the defense and I didn’t even give an opinion!
dogbert, when you gonna show us YOUR blog? Hypocrite.
Oh, you’re gonna say you don’t have one?? Gee, that makes you one brave guy.
No, just a busy one. Anyhoo, yours would keep a psychiatrist very busy. How about another peek?
Peek all you want. All pics and videos on protected status.
When you gonna show us YOUR blog, doggie dogbert? I wanna see what a real Western racist’s blog is like.
What are you scared of, li’l fella?
Here you go, ‘po:
http://www.unitedmedia.com/com.....trips.html
“li’l fella”? Hmm…you obviously have not seen me. tsk tsk
What are you scared of, doggie boy? Let’s see your email account. What, scared of…. “lil” ole me? awww…
JK,
No, my comments stick. BTW, I never condemned Koreans wholesale. I merely stated what is obvious to the most casual observer. It is a pity that basic humor is lost on you. (Take two they are small)
I am not sure if this will see the light of day as the thought police are stamping out many comments from this Blog with a sharp heeled jack-boot.
Right….next you’ll make some sort of sexual boast. I know your shtick.
I’m only scared of kyopos with guns. You packing?
I’ve received (and sent) e-mail with commenters on this site. My e-mail address is well known.
Wow…
somebody got a lots of deleting to do….
“Hmmm. This blog is inflamed enough from the VT shootings threads, so I’ll resist the urge to comment on your selective dating and mating, Fantasy.”
Sonagi:
I did not really expect that my comment above (written with the intention to cool things down) would spark off controversy again – the message I wanted to convey was rather that we should not judge a book by its cover. I have no clue whether the Asian-American woman to whose blog JK provided a link is right with her views or not, she may or may not be – I merely wanted to point out that we should not discard her opinion simply because of her appearance. I do not regard this so much as an issue a race but as an issue of gender.
Actually, I wanted to call for more respect for that woman, I really did not expect this to be in any way controversial. But then, there is a variant of Sod’s law: “If something can be misunderstood, it will be…”
BTW, while I certainly had a “dating policy” biased in favour of Asian women, my “mating policy” (your expression) can be described in one pithy sentence: “If I do not love her, I will not mess with her!” The result was that the number of my sex partners was probably far below average. I am making this public because I feel the need to clarify the difference between me and the much referenced “asiaphiles” of whom I do not know whether they really exist or whether they are just an invention by those bent on stirring up racial strife. And while some KOREAN (in the sense of being brought up in the ROK) men seem to have problems recognising that there is such a difference, I would imagine that you, as a White American woman, definitely should not have have any such trouble…
Fantasy, I applaud your courage. I think what you may be describing is not Sod’s law but probably Coles law. I too find Asian women to be beautiful but not at the expense of women in totality. They are all beautiful, just some more than others.
“somebody got a lots of deleting to do….”
Coles law or Coleslaw ?
No, seriously:
Thanks, Railway, for the correction.
After doing some research I found out that Edward Coles (December 15, 1786 – July 7, 1868), Governor of the State of Illinois from 1822 to 1826, may indeed have been the first to have formulated the above-mentioned principle. I have also found out that the idea is frequently subsumed under Murphy’s laws, which in turn are sometimes called Sod’s laws, but only in Britain, never in the US.
So, no kidding, reading and writing comments broadens my horizon. With this newly-gained insight I will try to impress some lady, Asian or not, at the next party I attend. Sure hope my wife will not hit me…
And on that happy note, let’s lay this post to rest.
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