Comments on: Seoul by Any Other Name http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/ Korea... in Blog Format Wed, 9 Jul 2008 07:42:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: frogmouth http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77690 frogmouth Sat, 14 Apr 2007 07:23:38 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77690 If you like Korean-Japanese history, especially from the colonial era, I gathered maps from Japan's historical archives. These maps detail the Imperial Navy's annexation of Korean and Chinese territory in 1904-1905. They are labelled in English with an explanation. http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/dokdo-territory-annexations.html http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/dokdo-territory-annexations2.html http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/dokdo-territory-annexations3.html The best online Asian map site is by far David Rumseys collection at Berkeley, California If you like Korean-Japanese history, especially from the colonial era, I gathered maps from Japan’s historical archives.

These maps detail the Imperial Navy’s annexation of Korean and Chinese territory in 1904-1905. They are labelled in English with an explanation.

http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com.....tions.html
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com.....ions2.html
http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com.....ions3.html

The best online Asian map site is by far David Rumseys collection at Berkeley, California

]]> By: Antti http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77221 Antti Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:33:53 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77221 In addition to Sewing's comment about the Japanese renderings of Korean place names during the colonial era, the practice was to use Japanese-style place names in locations with mainly Japanese residents, and have Korean names for Korean neighborhoods. So the street "Shoro" visible in the capture above is the Japanese pronunciation of Jongno (鐘路), but if you go to the map site and move southwards over Cheonggyecheon, there are streets like Kogane-machi (now Eulji-ro) and Hon-machi (本町), now Myeongdong-gil. Korean neighborhoods retained the Korean term 洞 (<I>dong</I>), and its Japanese equivalent 町 (<I>machi</I>, <I>chô</I>) was used in Japanese areas. In addition to Sewing’s comment about the Japanese renderings of Korean place names during the colonial era, the practice was to use Japanese-style place names in locations with mainly Japanese residents, and have Korean names for Korean neighborhoods. So the street “Shoro” visible in the capture above is the Japanese pronunciation of Jongno (鐘路), but if you go to the map site and move southwards over Cheonggyecheon, there are streets like Kogane-machi (now Eulji-ro) and Hon-machi (本町), now Myeongdong-gil. Korean neighborhoods retained the Korean term 洞 (dong), and its Japanese equivalent 町 (machi, chô) was used in Japanese areas.

]]> By: R. Elgin http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77195 R. Elgin Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:54:23 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77195 I'm glad everyone has enjoyed finding this map as I did. I did delete all the postings that failed to understand humor since there are few things worse than an ass without a sense of humor. I’m glad everyone has enjoyed finding this map as I did.

I did delete all the postings that failed to understand humor since there are few things worse than an ass without a sense of humor.

]]> By: Haisan http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77187 Haisan Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:01:05 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77187 Gangnam was not the only farmland at the time. Take a look at the south side of Namsan, where Itaewon and Hannam-dong are today. Most of the upper part of Itaewon (around the Hyatt Hotel today) was open and undeveloped back then. I recently found some Korean War veteran had photos of that area from the 1950s on his blog. Also, the map is far from complete. I do believe lower Hannam-dong, close to the Han River, has long had settlements and a market. No signs of those things on that map, though. Gangnam was not the only farmland at the time. Take a look at the south side of Namsan, where Itaewon and Hannam-dong are today. Most of the upper part of Itaewon (around the Hyatt Hotel today) was open and undeveloped back then. I recently found some Korean War veteran had photos of that area from the 1950s on his blog.

Also, the map is far from complete. I do believe lower Hannam-dong, close to the Han River, has long had settlements and a market. No signs of those things on that map, though.

]]> By: sewing http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77185 sewing Wed, 11 Apr 2007 01:57:32 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77185 Gbevers: It looks like "North Mausoleum" would be 북묘 (北廟) in Myeongnyun-dong 1-ga. The Jongno-gu website has an article on the neighbourhood's history <a href="http://www.jongno.go.kr/wcms4/page?pageId=340000010&C_290008854_290008855=%EB%AA%85%EB%A5%9C1%EA%B0%80&C_290008854_0=290010791&C_290008854_290008853=%ED%98%9C%ED%99%94%EB%8F%99&LIST_PAGE_ID_290008854=270005366" rel="nofollow">here</a>; see the 4th paragraph. It looks like the tomb was located somewhat west of where Seoul Science High School (서울과학고등학교) stands today (which is located in Hyehwa-dong). The area is north of Daehangno and Line 4. Gbevers: It looks like “North Mausoleum” would be 북묘 (北廟) in Myeongnyun-dong 1-ga. The Jongno-gu website has an article on the neighbourhood’s history here; see the 4th paragraph. It looks like the tomb was located somewhat west of where Seoul Science High School (서울과학고등학교) stands today (which is located in Hyehwa-dong). The area is north of Daehangno and Line 4.

]]> By: gbevers http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77177 gbevers Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:54:45 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77177 It is interesting to see the boundaries of the wall around the city. Also, it is interesting to note the sizes of the British, American, and Russian Consulate-General compounds in relation to the "Keiun Palace" (Doksu Palace) area size. By the way, where is the "North Mausoleum" today? It is interesting to see the boundaries of the wall around the city. Also, it is interesting to note the sizes of the British, American, and Russian Consulate-General compounds in relation to the “Keiun Palace” (Doksu Palace) area size. By the way, where is the “North Mausoleum” today?

]]> By: sewing http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77174 sewing Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:33:18 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77174 Captbbq (#2): The place names were all officially in Japanese, because the country was a Japanese colony at the time. Presumably, Koreans would have continued to refer to place names by their Korean names, but in official documents and spoken Japanese and foreign-language sources from the time, the Japanese names were used. As it happens, since virtually all Korean place names are composed of Chinese characters, it was easy for the Japanese authorities to work out their own pronunciations, hiragana spellings, and Hepburn (Japanese) romanizations of the place names based on the underlying characters. ...And thanks, R. Elgin for the link. Captbbq (#2): The place names were all officially in Japanese, because the country was a Japanese colony at the time. Presumably, Koreans would have continued to refer to place names by their Korean names, but in official documents and spoken Japanese and foreign-language sources from the time, the Japanese names were used. As it happens, since virtually all Korean place names are composed of Chinese characters, it was easy for the Japanese authorities to work out their own pronunciations, hiragana spellings, and Hepburn (Japanese) romanizations of the place names based on the underlying characters.

…And thanks, R. Elgin for the link.

]]> By: sewing http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77173 sewing Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:26:14 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77173 WJK: Yes, Gangnam was just farmland until the 1970s. The only built-up area was along the railway line from Noryangjin (across the river from Yongsan) west to Yeongdeungpo (where the line turns south). WJK: Yes, Gangnam was just farmland until the 1970s. The only built-up area was along the railway line from Noryangjin (across the river from Yongsan) west to Yeongdeungpo (where the line turns south).

]]> By: Sonagi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77166 Sonagi Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:11:25 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77166 Many years ago Edward B. Adams wrote a beautiful book on the history of Seoul, <i>Through the Gates of Seoul</i>. It is out of print now; I got my copy from a used bookseller. Among the photographs in the book are pictures of the banks of the Han River in Kangnam - grassy and marshy, nary a high rise in sight. As late as the 70s, ferries still transported people across the river. Your relatives' wealth through Kangnam land ownership is not unusual. Practically every ethnic Korean I know has a relative who got rich that way. Nor does it surprise me that your investor relative was a woman. Korean women are savvy about finances. I'm sure you're familiar with Korean savings cooperatives (계). Many years ago Edward B. Adams wrote a beautiful book on the history of Seoul, Through the Gates of Seoul. It is out of print now; I got my copy from a used bookseller. Among the photographs in the book are pictures of the banks of the Han River in Kangnam - grassy and marshy, nary a high rise in sight. As late as the 70s, ferries still transported people across the river.

Your relatives’ wealth through Kangnam land ownership is not unusual. Practically every ethnic Korean I know has a relative who got rich that way. Nor does it surprise me that your investor relative was a woman. Korean women are savvy about finances. I’m sure you’re familiar with Korean savings cooperatives (계).

]]> By: wjk http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77164 wjk Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:27:07 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/10/seoul-by-any-other-name/#comment-77164 yup gi juk in Noh Moo Hyun was supposed to do something similar for Choong Chung Do, but all he did was secure Choong Chung votes in 2002, and that was pretty much it. Capital of ROK is still Seoul, not some city in Choong Chung Do. I wonder what those people who bought those lands are doing now. My relative cashed in big time by buying Kang Nam land roughly 40 years ago. And it was a woman. The husband threatened to divorce her for buying worthless land. Until, um, yeah. yup gi juk in Noh Moo Hyun was supposed to do something similar for Choong Chung Do, but all he did was secure Choong Chung votes in 2002, and that was pretty much it. Capital of ROK is still Seoul, not some city in Choong Chung Do.

I wonder what those people who bought those lands are doing now. My relative cashed in big time by buying Kang Nam land roughly 40 years ago. And it was a woman. The husband threatened to divorce her for buying worthless land. Until, um, yeah.

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