Comments on: NK defectors in the SK classroom http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/ Korea... in Blog Format Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:12:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Robert Koehler http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76378 Robert Koehler Wed, 04 Apr 2007 00:06:53 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76378 Hey, while we're all throwing the bull about intentions, can we assume for the moment his line, "Roh Moo Hyun has been passionately calling for the ouster of the 37,000 U.S. troops in South Korea" was NOT written with the best of intentions. Even if we agree that Roh's views toward the alliance are confusing at best, the claim is still patently false, and potentially damaging as it ended up in the WaPo. Hey, while we’re all throwing the bull about intentions, can we assume for the moment his line, “Roh Moo Hyun has been passionately calling for the ouster of the 37,000 U.S. troops in South Korea” was NOT written with the best of intentions. Even if we agree that Roh’s views toward the alliance are confusing at best, the claim is still patently false, and potentially damaging as it ended up in the WaPo.

]]> By: Sonagi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76372 Sonagi Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:07:24 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76372 BTW, in response to my initial request for the original Korean quotation, Mr. Lee provided the quote in Korean and "thoughtfully" offered to write the pronuciation if I couldn't read Hangeul. This is the sort of condescension that annoyed me on occasion during my long stay in Seoul. The only illiterate yet fluent speakers of Korean I've ever met were ethnic Koreans raised overseas. It is this sort of "foreigner = ignorant and helpless" sort of disrespect I thought of when reading the English quote. BTW, in response to my initial request for the original Korean quotation, Mr. Lee provided the quote in Korean and “thoughtfully” offered to write the pronuciation if I couldn’t read Hangeul. This is the sort of condescension that annoyed me on occasion during my long stay in Seoul. The only illiterate yet fluent speakers of Korean I’ve ever met were ethnic Koreans raised overseas. It is this sort of “foreigner = ignorant and helpless” sort of disrespect I thought of when reading the English quote.

]]> By: slim http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76371 slim Tue, 03 Apr 2007 19:55:50 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76371 I think your interpretation is right on, Oranckay. I fault the writer first and then the editors, who should know that words in quotes are taken literally. In isolation, there's no non-negative way to interpret those seven words in the quote, and then when you factor in what is (fairly or unfairly) the prevailing image of South Korea's views of outsiders, it really stands out. I think your interpretation is right on, Oranckay. I fault the writer first and then the editors, who should know that words in quotes are taken literally. In isolation, there’s no non-negative way to interpret those seven words in the quote, and then when you factor in what is (fairly or unfairly) the prevailing image of South Korea’s views of outsiders, it really stands out.

]]> By: oranckay http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76370 oranckay Tue, 03 Apr 2007 19:31:49 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76370 Hehe sorry if I sounded like a jerk. Still, I think it best to assume people have good intentions when they say thing and not try to trip them up in the way things are stated. I'm sure plenty of people around the world are assuming the worst about that statement. Hehe sorry if I sounded like a jerk. Still, I think it best to assume people have good intentions when they say thing and not try to trip them up in the way things are stated. I’m sure plenty of people around the world are assuming the worst about that statement.

]]> By: slim http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76369 slim Tue, 03 Apr 2007 19:04:52 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76369 At the very least I hope Samuel learns to handle quotes with care when writing for an audience that lacks the nuanced grasp of Korean behavior of an Oranckay. He should have paraphrased principal Park in that case. At the very least I hope Samuel learns to handle quotes with care when writing for an audience that lacks the nuanced grasp of Korean behavior of an Oranckay. He should have paraphrased principal Park in that case.

]]> By: Sonagi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76367 Sonagi Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:26:59 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76367 Slim wrote: <i>That makes more sense, but it’s troubling that quotes get distorted in the editing process."</i> Yes, it is, and this is certainly not the first time. The lesson for all of us is to keep in mind the possibility of inaccurate translations and botched editing when reading news stories containing comments and quotes translated from another language. Oranckay wrote: <i>"Though not a direct translation, it is clear the intent is to say “treat them with the same cross-cultural understanding you would afford a foreigner.” An “uri nara saram” would get the intent and not argue with the delivery."</i> Yes, that is exactly what Mr. Lee communicated to me in his emails. The principal's message was about respecting differences. Slim wrote:

That makes more sense, but it’s troubling that quotes get distorted in the editing process.”

Yes, it is, and this is certainly not the first time. The lesson for all of us is to keep in mind the possibility of inaccurate translations and botched editing when reading news stories containing comments and quotes translated from another language.

Oranckay wrote:

“Though not a direct translation, it is clear the intent is to say “treat them with the same cross-cultural understanding you would afford a foreigner.” An “uri nara saram” would get the intent and not argue with the delivery.”

Yes, that is exactly what Mr. Lee communicated to me in his emails. The principal’s message was about respecting differences.

]]> By: oranckay http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76365 oranckay Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:11:52 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76365 Given the way South Koreans believe they are all the same ("uri nara saramdeu all eat gimchi" (when I was 18 I lived with a family that didn't), "uri nara saramdeul do this, that") frankly I think assuming they are foreigners - and they are in terms of state identity - would be helpful. I'd go so far as to assume anyone who has experienced the South Korean education system first hand and seen how every fourth grader in every classroom everywhere in the country learns the exact same things would appreciate this. Expecting North Koreans to behave "like us" in the same uniform "KOREANS are ALL this way or that" would be problmatic. Finally I think one need to remember that individual words are never as loaded as some of them are in English, and Korean does not have the same rules of political correctness. Frankly I think the foreingers are acting like foreingers if this is upsetting anyone. Though not a direct translation, it is clear the intent is to say "treat them with the same cross-cultural understanding you would afford a foreigner." An "uri nara saram" would get the intent and not argue with the delivery. Given the way South Koreans believe they are all the same (”uri nara saramdeu all eat gimchi” (when I was 18 I lived with a family that didn’t), “uri nara saramdeul do this, that”) frankly I think assuming they are foreigners - and they are in terms of state identity - would be helpful. I’d go so far as to assume anyone who has experienced the South Korean education system first hand and seen how every fourth grader in every classroom everywhere in the country learns the exact same things would appreciate this. Expecting North Koreans to behave “like us” in the same uniform “KOREANS are ALL this way or that” would be problmatic. Finally I think one need to remember that individual words are never as loaded as some of them are in English, and Korean does not have the same rules of political correctness. Frankly I think the foreingers are acting like foreingers if this is upsetting anyone.

Though not a direct translation, it is clear the intent is to say “treat them with the same cross-cultural understanding you would afford a foreigner.” An “uri nara saram” would get the intent and not argue with the delivery.

]]> By: slim http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76364 slim Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:05:37 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76364 That makes more sense, but it's troubling that quotes get distorted in the editing process. That makes more sense, but it’s troubling that quotes get distorted in the editing process.

]]> By: Sonagi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76359 Sonagi Tue, 03 Apr 2007 15:41:26 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76359 I emailed the writer, Samuel Songhoon Lee, asking for clarification and the original quote in Korean, if possible. Mr. Lee responded promptly. He acknowledge that the quote had caused a stir among both expats and Korean-Americans. He explained that the original article was edited for length, and thus, the quote became distorted. Below is the original Korean: "애들을 외국인 처럼 대하세요, 그들이 우리들과 다른점을 인정하고 존중해주면서요" I humbly offer a translation: "Treat the kids like foreigners. Acknowledge their differences and give them respect." There are two pages of comments accessible at the end of the article. Mr. Lee posted two long responses on the second page of the comment thread. I emailed the writer, Samuel Songhoon Lee, asking for clarification and the original quote in Korean, if possible. Mr. Lee responded promptly. He acknowledge that the quote had caused a stir among both expats and Korean-Americans. He explained that the original article was edited for length, and thus, the quote became distorted. Below is the original Korean:

“애들을 외국인 처럼 대하세요, 그들이 우리들과
다른점을 인정하고 존중해주면서요”

I humbly offer a translation:

“Treat the kids like foreigners. Acknowledge their differences and give them respect.”

There are two pages of comments accessible at the end of the article. Mr. Lee posted two long responses on the second page of the comment thread.

]]> By: slim http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76250 slim Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:54:31 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/02/nk-defectors-in-the-sk-classroom/#comment-76250 I thought the piece was sloppy and underinformed, but these seven words “Treat them like foreigners, but with respect” unwittingly spoke volumes about the local mindset. I thought the piece was sloppy and underinformed, but these seven words “Treat them like foreigners, but with respect” unwittingly spoke volumes about the local mindset.

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