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Marmot’s Hole Open Thread #2
This entry was written by Robert Koehler, posted on March 31, 2007 at 11:35 am, filed under Blogging. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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58 Comments
Does anyone have a source for a timeline of foreign influence of Korea?
At the invitation of the Koreans, the Chinese held sway until the late 1890s.
The Japanese considered Korea a protectorate from 1905 to 1910; why weren’t there protests against this at the time, BTW?
What about a timeline for the rest of the periods in history (i.e., the Hideyoshi era, the Mongol era, earlier Chinese influences, etc.)?
Is there any reliable history work (that is, reliable in the sense that it isn’t authored by some historical revisionist Korean “scholar” wtith professional ethics comparable to Hwang U-suck)?
So, they were handing out free lolli-pops at Costco yesterday. The scene was surreal. A bunch of Ajumas doing poor Telly Savalas impressions. Who loves you Baby?
Any predictions for the FTA?
‘Is there any reliable history work (that is, reliable in the sense that it isn’t authored by some historical revisionist Korean “scholar” wtith professional ethics comparable to Hwang U-suck)?’
you couldn’t be any more clear. you mean scholars who provide you with proof of the ‘hideyoshi era’? yeah, we got your number, pal. why don’t yo conduct your search in japan? why not ask gerry bevers? i’m sure he knows lots about the ‘hideyoshi era’. lol.
Arsenal are playing Liverpool today.
Are there any Arsenal supporters groups in Korea?
Goat, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that I think we’re gonna see something. They’ve extended the talks until 1 am Monday (Sunday night, if you will). I don’t expect anything as momentous as full-on opening of the rice market, but they are obviously trying really hard to get something out of their talks. Both countries have economies facing seriously clear and present dangers. Both have committed a lot of effort to these talks. I don’t think they’re going to accept failure as an option.
Sad how fast a discussion board will degenerate, even with no subject. The earth needs a good 99% kill rate plague.
I agree and to be honest I am quite surprised. I was one of those in the camp that the whole talks would turn out to be more of a political tool than sincere FTA discussions.
For the sake of Korea, I hope that something gets done. The tides of trade will be shifting otherwise….
Sine qua non:
If you’re looking for a good historical account of the Imjin War and don’t mind spending $40, try Samuel Hawley’s The Imjin War. Owing to its careful presentation of research, it has gotten positive reviews from the international academic community. Sam has a master’s in history from Queens University in Canada, the top rated school in Canada as our Canadian friends already know. He spent years working on this book, the first Westerner to retell the story of the war.
Shoutout to Netizen Kim:
I will probably be in NYC on Saturday, May 12. Will you be in town? Interested in having a nice meal in mid-Manhattan’s Koreatown or something?
make sure you eat lots of kimchi tonight
http://www.seoul.amedd.army.mil/sites/yellowsand/
Thanks for the warning, NK. I really wonder how long expats will be willing to live in cities like Seoul which are in the path of these yellow toxic dust storms. Sadly for me, with young kids, I’m not sure I can justify staying. Any thoughts from others struggling with this? Love it here, but…
For years I suffered from annual bouts of sinusitis and occasional bronchitis while living in Seoul. For the past two years, I haven’t missed a day of work due to illness. Those of you who take long holidays in North America should observe how the color of your snot changes from blackish to greenish and then back to blackish after you return to Seoul. Nevermind dust storms; there’s already enough gunk in the air to bind with every last anti-oxidant molecule in your body.
‘If you’re looking for a good historical account of the Imjin War and don’t mind spending $40, try Samuel Hawley’s The Imjin War.’ sonagi
yeah, but he will be disappointed since there’s no discussion of the ‘hideyoshi era’. he’ll also be disappointed that most of the source material is from korea. he’ll also blow a rod when he discovers the author’s idea that korea won because it had better technology (and a little help from the chinese).
now, on a more serious note, i’d like to recommend the book to lirlou so he can have an account based on the korean perspective of the war. fantastic read.
‘during the ‘hideyoshi era’, japan once again became a recipient of korean art and technology.’ from the book ‘the hideyoshi era’ by mitsuaki nazataki
ponta, i’m going to ask you again:
where’s the evidence sonagi asked for? where’s the proof of your statement that most of those who abducted korean women were korean pimps? i noticed you avoided that one. did you make it up or do you feel your thoughts constitute proof?
this is now the sixth time you’ve been asked to back up that statement.
A Korean swimmer, Park TaeHwan, took gold medal in 400m free style. Go Korea!
Park Jisung scored his fifth goal as a Manchester United player.
Lee MyungBak, an elder in a Korean protestant church, is still leading in polls, 52% popularity.
Rho will be ousted in 9 months. Korean Commies are losing grip on the country. Gaesung industrial complex, Gumgang trip, inter_korea railway and Family meetings are all passe.
Korea is in good shape.
How come FTA left out the rice issue?
Korean rice is in poor quality and is about five times more expensive than American rice. I expected that finally Koreans can eat good quality rice at reasonable price. But, as it happens often, average Koreans are screwed by their own politicians.
Well, people want to pay high price to protect farmers then they can go ahead. As a matter of fact, the same thing goes on in the US as well.
Things are not much different in two countries.
Correction Baduk, Korean rice only sucks if you are poor and live in Korea. If you can afford it, you can have quality rice shipped to your house from specific country farms.
Any rice that costs 13000 won per 3 kg bag sucks. Don’t get me started on beef…
Park Jisung scored his fifth goal as a Manchester United player.
Ah, how time flies, it seems only yesterday that the national headline TV news was, “Park Jisung almost scored a goal”.
PS I
Have you been in korea to long…take the quiz
http://www.gotoquiz.com/the_is.....rea_quiz_1
Pawi,
You’re gonna love this one: in a national poll in Japan, Hideyoshi was voted as one of the top ten “most influential people, hero edition,” just ahead of Einstein:
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=1471
I’ve been thinking a lot about clay pots. Specifically clay pots one wears one on one’s head. A terracotta hat. Like those worn in Korea. To enforce civility. And law abiding. A long time ago.
Think of Korea without riot cops and tear gas. Without secret police every 2 meters like seen up north. Without taxi drivers directing traffic. Shudder. Streets of larceny, rape and murder. Yes, Korea was once that sort of place.
And so it was decreed that all residents would wear clay pots on their heads. And not any old clay pot found in the garden. Special pots. Sold by the government. That were very expensive.
Balanced on each person’s head, these clay pot hats would fall and break when its wearer got in a punch up. The world’s first CrimeStoppers program it was.
Centuries have passed since the clay pot hat was last worn. We need them now more than ever. I ask that our esteemed lurker Assemblymen work their legal magic and bring them back. Not only will we see a more civil society, we’ll see a resurgence of Korea’s traditional carrying-stuff-on-head culture. Nowadays the only practitioners of this ancient art are a few grannies, who easily stack meals for six upon their permed heads. I doubt we can find anyone under 40 who can carry a single kimbab on their head.
Yes, it’s true that God’s blessings to Korea are few. But one of His blessings to the people of Korea is their extra-large craniums. No other skull is as good for carrying stuff.
Sonagi,
I would have thought Tokugawa would have made the top of the list. How did Nobunago and Hideyoshi (Hideyoshi????) get ahead of him?
seouldout
Yes, and God’s gift to the Japanese was their buckteeth to fillet fish into delicious sashimi. No other teeth are as good for filleting fish. Also, to the Jews, He gave them extra-large noses so they can tell when their numerous candles start a fire.
This is a waste, attempting discussion here.
That poster works to corrupt every thread by hijacking every discussion into 1) an attack on Japan or 2) an attack on the United States or 3) a personal attack on some other poster or 4) some combination of the above.
And if another poster doesn’t confront the distracting, fallacious, useless comments, the comments are then used by that poster as some kind of “reality”.
That poster has a history of hateful reaction here. Upon appearance of a post that criticizes Korea, Korean culture or Korean society, no matter how on the mark the criticism may be, that poster posts a hateful, disruptive response/attack.
That poster should be banned.
Yes, and God’s gift to the Japanese was their buckteeth to fillet fish into delicious sashimi. No other teeth are as good for filleting fish. Also, to the Jews, He gave them extra-large noses so they can tell when their numerous candles start a fire.
For the love of sweet Baby Jesus, I hope this is just a put-on!
Yeah, Pawi’s a little chippy.
There was an article about a month ago arguing whether the Korean wave was becoming too filled with nationalism. The author said that he thought the nationalistic aspect of Halyu was essential in that if you took it away, you would lose what is uniquely Korean.
Now, while Korean cinema is often refreshingly unique and TV period dramas are certainly filled with this nations own slant, there is nothing about Korean pop which is Korean. Nothing.
From what I understand, Korean pop is what is driving Halyu. But there is nothing new about men with frosted lettuce, wearing denim jackets and dancing in unison. It’s certainly not Korean.
When Super Junior T becomes popular in Japan I’ll take notice. Trot music is Korean.
JK asked,
I would have thought Tokugawa would have made the top of the list. How did Nobunago and Hideyoshi (Hideyoshi????) get ahead of him?
I asked the folks at Japan Probe how a fellow who lost bigtime to Yi Sunshin could be ranked so highly as a hero. One person replied that it is because he arose to great power from a very impoverished background through intelligence, skill, and leadership.
the goddamn Yellow Dust peaked at 1233 ppm at noon today, then crashed to nothing by now. Just enuff to ruin a good Sunday, keeeeerap… I share the concerns of the ironically-named Dustin…
Hideyoshi’s popularity? That’s easy. He lopped off tens of thousands of noses, brought ‘em home, and put ‘em in his trophy case. The Japanese love their hobbyists, especially the whacked out ones.
Marmot regulars may remember a thread on extreme revisionist Korean history books mistaken as official school textbooks by Chinese netizens. The post trackbacked to blogger Jacky Peng, a PRC national residing in Singapore.
I stopped by Jacky’s blog recently and found some interesting posts and links to share:
http://www.jackypeng.com/blog
His latest entry, “Why China Is Not the Factory of the World,” a reflection on China’s Pearl River Delta manufacturing by a Japanese businessman, is well worth a read.
Among his recent posts are two Chinese language items on the plight of North Korean refugees. I won’t translate them because the content is nothing new. What is remarkable is that stories showing sympathy to North Koreans hiding in China are circulating on Chinese forums. Jacky picked up a narrative by a North Korean woman hiding in China from a China-North Korea friendship forum before it presumably got deleted by the moderators.
Jacky gave me some links to Chinese threads on North Korea, including one that criticizes organized tours to NK as Potempkin Villages and exposes a sexist division of labor that delegates all the back-breaking fieldwork to the women while the men perform supervisory and administrative tasks. The post includes many photos of North Korean women at work:
http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_1801308_1.html
Sanshinseon, thanks for catching the irony. Actually the yellow dust peaked over 2000 ppm in some parts of Korea, very dangerous for pretty much anything that needs to breathe to survive. We spent the day pent up in our apartment with the kids, making our reservations to get out of here. I’ve been here for many years, invested a lot of time and energy here, but this is it. I hacked up a lung last year and this year it is worse. We’re in for more tomorrow as I understand it.
BTW I’ve been a lurker here for a while but never posted, so let me take this opportunity to say thanks Marmot et al for a great blog.
do you know what the phrase,
“OTL” stands for?
I see it often in Korean boards, and I suspect it is borrowed from Japan and might be some kind of word that is not used often in English, such as “fluke”.
“Fluke” is not an uncommon word in English, wjk.
While browsing Jacky Peng’s website, I was linked to this interesting piece about effective webpage design:
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/stories/070312ruel/
It’s about researchers using eyetracking devices to see what viewers look at on a page. If you don’t care to read the whole page, scroll down to the image of baseball player George Brett. Research data shows that MEN, not women, focused on George’s crotch as well as his face. Men check out sex organs not only of our own species but also animals, according to viewer results of webpages from the American Kennel Club.
Guys checking out dogs to see if they’re well hung. I’m so laughing my ass off right now.
@ sonagi, me thinks it ain’t just the boys.
And Reuters now reports that the FTA deadline has been missed. Talks continue. American negotiators evidently don’t know that FTA means Free Talking Activity over here.
@Seoulout #35:
Checking out another lady’s rack is one thing, but have you ever heard of women ogling cow’s udders?
sonagi, Koreans don’t use the word “fluke” in the exact same sense as English speakers do.
In fact, they think it’s a Japanese word.
They even pronounce it the Japanese way.
Hoo-roo-ku.
I had to listen to it a while and when they used it and I told my friend he may be referring to the English word, fluke.
In the US, people only use it sometimes to refer to championship teams in sports.
OTL is an emoticon that represents frustration. The letters are supposed to be of a frustrated or discouraged person face down on the ground.
wjk wrote:
“In the US, people only use it sometimes to refer to championship teams in sports.”
I can’t speak about the Korean use of the word although it is not surprising that the meaning would be altered. I can state with confidence that Americans use the word “fluke” in many other contexts besides sports.
‘That poster works to corrupt every thread by hijacking every discussion into 1) an attack on Japan or 2) an attack on the United States or 3) a personal attack on some other poster or 4) some combination of the above. the poster should be banned.’
you’re the one who brought up japan and the ‘hideyoshi era’ not me. don’t blame me if i ridicule what you wrote. you did notice i didn’t ridicule you, right?
attack america? prove it. and don’t show me stuff where i attack bush and his supporters since that ain’t attacking america. just like hideyoshi era, you made it up. oh, and btw, i can say what i want about my country; that’s my right as an american.
ban me? why would the marmot ban me? i’ve been here for over two years, he’s had plenty of opportunitites to ban me but has not. maybe he realizes i’m no troll. maybe he realizes i add a bit of color to the whitebread view you often get here. marmot has no reason to ban me.
‘From what I understand, Korean pop is what is driving Halyu’ madlew
your understanding is wrong. tv dramas drive the korean wave, not k-pop. and more than a few historical dramas have become big hits in asia.
‘nothing korean about k pop.’
really? i think it’s in korean, isn’t it? i think the people who make it are korean, no?
before moving on, i’d like to say to orankey and marmot that i like the new rules since it forces people to attack what is written instead of who wrote it. sine qua non, perhaps you can provide some information on the ‘hideyoshi era’ and have me stand corrected.
‘during the hideoshi era, the japanese learned new technologies form the koreans…’ from the book ‘the glory of the hideyoshi era’ by momomutsu akinohakaburi
paw wrote:
“really? i think it’s in korean, isn’t it? i think the people who make it are korean, no?”
Many popular K-pop songs from the 90s are remakes of Japanese tunes. I have a 2-CD set of 30 J-pop hits from 1983-2005 and recognize the melodies of about ten songs from the first CD. Many of the more recent songs may very well have been borrowed by Korean singers, too, but I quit listening to all pop period about ten years ago, so I wouldn’t even recognize the voices of BoA or Shakira or anybody else who came on the music scene after 1996.
Overall, J-pop and K-pop do share a sound that is distinct from North American pop.
Hi Sonagi. Please shoot me an e-mail with your latest address as the one I had for you seems defunct.
sonagi, i don’t disagree with you that k pop copied quite a bit from j pop. i myself like trot music (also derived from japan) and lament it’s apparent demise though i finally got my hands on some music from the early 70s when almost all the music was trot. i have to shake my head sometimes at how fast korea changes. no more trot, no more chinese characters, no looking back with nostalgia. sad.
may i ask if you like 트로트?
Will do, Slim. I missed you and a few others when I cancelled my account. I might have to google your work address and use that as I can’t recall your email address offhand.
I like trot when it suits the atmosphere - for example, a yot peddler on the street or a gaggle of ajoshis and ajummahs sitting cross-legged on wooden platforms while enjoying a meal al fresco.
Let’s say for instance you get a group from Iceland who start doing reggae, smoking blunts, wearing dreads and playing ska. It’s got icelandic lyrics and the news reports say that Josh Ickbleen and the Vessles are conquering the polar regions, does this constitute a national cultural identity. No props to Marley or Peter Tosh or any that came before that. Oh, okay.
Hey, if you say that the period dramas are what’s driving Halyu, then I stand corrected.
I still think Josh Ickbleen is promoting Jamaican culture.
I’m not a big fan of the “Man Banders”. I prefer musicians who pick up instruments. Who can account for taste, right. But outside of what you said, the lyrics being in Korean and the actual members being Korean what else is there that is authentically Korean? That goes for J-pop too.
I’m only saying this because of the article.
When I flipped my calendar over to April at work today, I found that I had written “LUCY LIU IS COMING” sometime in early April. I don’t remember where I got that from. Anybody have any further info on that, or did I get some bad info?
There is a job opening at Economic Daily(MaeKyeng) newspaper.
http://news.mk.co.kr/newsRead......01&cm=헤드라인&year=2007&no=165857&selFlag=&relatedcode=&wonNo=&sID=
Go to http://www.mk.co.kr/
and look for “COPY EDITOR WANTED” in one of the article headings.
if you like Japanese style trot music, which is what heavily influenced Korean style trot music, check out Kim Gook Hwan.
http://kr.blog.yahoo.com/swh0077/2154.html
http://kr.blog.yahoo.com/hanul072/535.html
Not old enough for 999. Old enough for Mechandar V. These are basically trot style songs, although I didn’t notice at all at the time for Mechandar V.
Trot music (or enka) is great stuff–Tae Jin-ah, especially. You don’t see the women trot singers on TV as much, which is too bad.
I was eating in a shikdang in Chongno that played 1970s Korean rock-pop music and it was interesting to hear how they took on influences and reworked them–not plagiarizing, just doing what musicians everywhere do. You could pick out some early Fleetwood Mac sounds or Badfinger or Mountain….
The current K-pop is totally ignorable aural wallpaper, like in other countries. Wait, exactly like in other countries:
http://korean-bitez.blogspot.c.....rized.html
The “K-rap” is too funny though–I still can’t believe it isn’t a put on.
Why the most urgent matters arose when a senior manager is away for vacation? Damn it.
Amen to all those celebrating “trot” music! And I agree some of the women are just as good or better than a number of the men. They’re all class acts, and I agree with Michael that Tae Jin-a is one of the best.
JiMong, perhaps your senior manager is testing you!
Yes, I think so too. It must a set up…
Care for Soju with Tae Jin-a trot songs under the cherry blossoms, Sewing? Oh, Let’s not forget to give a credit to Hyun Chul 현 철 형님. And It would be perfect season to listen his “사랑은 얄미운 나비인가봐.
Here’s Pee Guy. Reminds me of Korea somehow
http://www.mcphee.com/items/11200.html
(Taxi, soju not included)
One for Oranckay:
http://blog.pentagram.com/arch.....a_blog.php
Thanks to “michael” for that.
If that diagram holds true, moderation is unnecessary.
Oranckay’s been doing well with a thankless task, even if I’d have more of a “lucha libre” approach to the comments
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