Japanese revisionist scholar Hideaki Kase [Wikipedia] warns in Newsweek that the “harder its neighbors or the United States push it for apologies, the harder Japan may start pushing back.”
Oh, and he says the comfort stations were commercial establishments and U.S. Army records (no doubt records like this [Report No. 49..., English], but probably not ones like this [OhMyNews, Korean]) declare the comfort women were prostitutes. And many Japanese politicians think the Rape of Nanjing is a Chinese fabrication. Or so he said.
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“And many Japanese politicians think the Rape of Nanjing is a Chinese fabrication. Or so he said.”
ha ha ha ha
There must be many debates about Nanjing Massacre. Nobody knows how many civilians were killed in Nanjing. The point is the reason why Japanese and Chinese fought in Shanghai and Nanjing.
Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931. Yes. But Nationalists government of China did not try to fight with Japan.
Japanese and Chinese forces had an accidental fight at “Marco Polo Bridge” of Peking in July of 1937. Yes. But that battle was small and stopped soon.
However, as for the fight of Shanghai in August of 1937, it was the invasion of China, not Japan. China fabricated Japanese invaded first, and is broadcasting this lie in the world.
As for Korean War, China fabricated S. Korea invaded first, either. They still write so in Chinese history textbook.
The fabricated story of “Japan invaded first” and “Nanjing Massacre” are the package to distort that Japan was evil and China was justice.
Criticizing the Massacre of enemy is so convenient for China to hide the shame to lose the capital and to cheat the Japanese naïve leftists to work for them.
Criticizing the enemy after losing the battle is just like football coach’s criticizing the opponent players after the game to excuse his fault.
The truth of “The rape of Nanjing” is just “The fall of Nanjing.” That’s it.
Chinese nationalists and Japanese naïve leftists had better criticize the crimes of CCP first before criticizing any other countries.
“The Japanese army will not rest until it finds the army responsible for the Rape of Nanking.” — spoof newspaper issued during 50th anniversary of WW2 end in 1995 in wake of OJ Simpson line.
Nanjing Massacre.
Unit 731.
Comfort women.
Bataan Death March.
Massacre of POW by Japanese force.
So many war crimes of Japanese. German was criticized, either.
But don’t you wonder why only losers committed so many crimes and victors did not.
(Italian was so weak that nobody criticizes them. It is a comedy.)
I think some kind of people must be so naïve who believe the victor’s justice and propaganda and try to point out the war crimes of losers only.
There is no justice or evil in the war. All of countries fight for its national interests.
But the government tries to make people believe they are fighting for justice.
This is propaganda. And ignorant people like to believe it.
We are always right, and they are always wrong.
WW2 was the first war that victors punished losers on the name of war crimes after the war.
“War crime” is just an excuse of victors to revenge losers.
That is the reason why war crimes of victors were never punished.
When Chinese and Korean shout “War crimes of Japanese”, it means they try to exploit the name of justice to revenge Japanese.
They never have an idea to punish their own war crimes at all.
Tomojiro
It seems you do not have any knowledge about political and economical background of WW2.
I recommend you to read this.
http://power.consumercide.com/VJ_Day.html
Do you label this writer as “revisionist” or “Japan apologist” again?
What is the essenatial differece?
“The nature of this “service” was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.”
(Report No. 49…, English)
“With the exception of Mrs.Hwang Nam-suk, all of the 23 women became “comfortgirls”, apparently under compulsion and misrepresentation. The fifteen who left Korea in July, 1943, for example, were recruited through advertisements in Korean newspapers offering employment for girls in Japanese factories in Singapore. The contingent with which they were sent southward included at least 300 girls who were similarly misled.”(OhMyNews, Korean])
What Korean media has been hiding is that in most
of the cases it was Korean pimps who deceived/forced women to make them prositututes just as they have been doing after Japanese rule,
during Korean War and around A-town.
And Japanese troop didn’t order Korean pimps to recruit that way, rather it regulated such illegal pimps.
As for Nanjing Massacre, Japanese government admits that it happened.
http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/area/taisen/qa/08.html
Comfort women controversy
Yasukuni controversy
They were invented and broadcasted by Japanese leftists, not by Korean or Chinese.
In short, some of controversies about Japan have the origins in the conflicts between Japanese leftists and rightists in Japan.
Unfortunately, Japanese leftists have lost its power and credibility in Japanese society in these ten years.
But ironically, the seeds which Japanese leftists broadcasted about Comfort women controversy 20 years ago have come true in America when Japanese leftists lost power and influence in Japan.
Now, Japanese is being criticized as rapists, thanks to the activities of Japanese leftists.
Japanese leftists are trying to use the comfort women controversy in US to recover its influence in Japan now.
But does it work?
How do most of Japanese people feel about the result of the activity of Japanese leftists who broadcasted the distorted story about comfort women in the world?
The flowers which lost its roots have a destiny to die sooner or later.
Ponta wrote:
“What Korean media has been hiding is that in most
of the cases it was Korean pimps who deceived/forced women to make them prositututes just as they have been doing after Japanese rule,
during Korean War and around A-town.”
The very paragraph you cited, the report by the US Army, contradicts your statement although it’s not apparent in your post because you edited out the first sentence, which identifies Japanese agents as having recruited the group of Korean comfort women interviewed for the report. Below is the paragraph with the key first sentence intact:
“Early in May of 1942 Japanese agents arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for “comfort service” in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia. The nature of this “service” was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.”
http://www.exordio.com/1939-19.....-orig.html
Why Japanese Politicians have so much trouble moving beyond its past?
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/s.....ry_id=3760
Obviously, It’s because “Advanced-Democratic” Japan has only been ruled by LDP(自民党) over 60 years.
jion, I’m beginning to think you should turn those nines over.
Winners and losers huh? I think the point of those war crimes tribunals was to take a look behind the lines at the plight of non-combatants. Genocide was not merely collateral damage. What rankled is that Aushwitz existed in the first place.
As far as Nanjing, the uproar had little to do with the ebb and flow of war. Why were there baby brouchettes? What ticks me off was the Japanese end zone celebration.
Come on jion, spin that one for me. Let me see another parade of tripe come off your keyboard. I know, I know. The babies invaded first.
Maddlew wrote:
“jion, I’m beginning to think you should turn those nines over.”
Sonagi
“The very paragraph you cited, the report by the US Army, contradicts your statement”
It does not contradict my statement.
I didn’t say Japanese agent was not involved; they were involved; for instance, there were Japanese brothel owners, and there are also records of that. And your record shows Japanese agent was running away with Korean comfort women. It is well known.
What I said was in most of the cases, it were Korean pimps that deceived/forced women to make the pimps.
That and what happened to Korean women in Korea after Independence are what Korean media has been covering up.
And that is what you or some pro-Korean people have not dared to touch upon it.
I am glad even Kase didn’t call ex-comfort women “old senile whores”.
I don’t understand why some people want to call them that way. But after all, the female victims under Korean government were called yanggalbo(Western whore) in Korea, so there may be a background for them to call them that way.
“it were Korean pimps that deceived/forced women to make the pimps.
→ to make them prostitutes.
“I think the point of those war crimes tribunals was to take a look behind the lines at the plight of non-combatants.”
I agree. And i think the point of the article jion linked was while Japanese (and Korean) civilians and Pow were killed, the victors were not tried, isn’t it?
Then please the proof for this allegation, Ponta:
“What I said was in most of the cases, it were Korean pimps that deceived/forced women to make the pimps.”
And why did you lop off that first sentence mentioning Japanese agents? I thought historical accuracy was important to you.
Sonagi
In that paragraph I wanted to ask what the essential difference was between two reports.
One report(Korean version) emphasize that women was deceived.
Another report in 1944 also claims the women were deceived.
The part I cited is sufficient enough to show that.
That there were Japanese brothel owners is no secret; after all comfort women system is the extension of the then brothel system in Japan.
And it is also natural most of pimps in Korea were Koreans. Japanese didn’t have to speak Koreans, but to deceive Korean women, you need to speak Koreans.
You are posing this kind of question probably because you have some bias that I am hiding the truth, or I am trying to cover up the wrongs Japan did. I am not. I hold to admit the wrong Japan committed is important, but I also hold Japan does’t have to accept the allegation that she didn’t committed.
I have been asking people to give us the evidence, for instance the testimonies of Korean head of the village, Korean pimps, the document to the effect Japanese troop odered Korean pimps to abduct Korean women. So far you have shown none and the documents available show Japanese politice regulated such illegal bokers.And it is a fact that Korean illegal brokers have been rampant in Korea after Japanese rule.That is what
you have been silent about.
I am going to change my opinion.
It’s really interesting the minds that are at work here. The evil “Korean pimps” who forced and kidnapped those ‘hookers’, versus the good “Japanese agents” who recruited the girls with kindness and goodness. Forgive me, but I was thought the pimps were pimps, even if those Japanese agents were sanctioned by their government.
cm
“the good “Japanese agents” who recruited the girls with kindness and goodness. Forgive me, but I was thought the pimps were pimps”
Where did people say that?
Could you quote that?
Or are you trying to make opponents’s argument look bad just like somebody by misrepresenting the argument?
Didn’t you say “Japanese agents” instead of what they really were, pimps and goons from the Japanese government?
cm
I also said “Korean brokers”.
You are reading too much into my comment like somebody else.
Nationalism is messed up. I think the world breathed a collective sigh of relief when Germany and Japan went down after WWII. We’d gotten a whif of their act. Any group of people with an idea that others are somehow inferior are not fit to equitably run the show. People marginalize other groups of people and it makes it easier to do all kinds of unspeakable things. To use the veil of war to shield these acts is a self-serving cop-out.
Yeah, the victors didn’t go on trial. So what. You’re still walking around, freely I might add, in the wake of all that supremist nonsense and voila, no gas chambers and no babies on sticks.
Ponta, you say “most”. How many are excluded from that most.
I don’t care about apologies. As a victim’s tormented world begins to fade to black I don’t think an apology from the great grandson of some sick putz is going to help much. But to deny that it even happened or to somehow try to rationalize it? You might as well take these people and encase them in cement then blast them into space. You are piling a crime on top of a crime.
Do the Japanese not bear some responsibility - at least of the moral variety - even if they used brokers/agents - Japanese or local - to acquire prostitutes for their troops? Even if they were not involved in the actual organization of the system - and that is a very big “if” - do they not bear some responsibility for allowing comfort stations to operate on territories they conquered and were administering?
The only thing I agree with - in part, anyway - with Kase is that it may be counterproductive to keep on criticizing/demonizing Japanese people - most of whom were not born at the time - in the name of justice. I don’t believe the Japanese have owed up to the actions of their government and many citizens during the first half of the 20th century - nowhere near as much as the Germans have - but I also don’t believe that the intentions of some Chinese and Korean critics are all that noble.
“harder its neighbors or the United States push it for apologies, the harder Japan may start pushing back.”
This comment is correct. It never happens that all of Japanese apologize for the abduction of 200,000 Korean women because it is not true. It never happens that Japanese writes so in its textbook.
Who believes there were no prostitutes in Korea in those days in spite of the fact that there are plenty of Korean prostitutes in Japan and US now?
On the other hand, Japanese will start to hate Korean and try to expose all of their lies.
Some Koreans try to exploit the name of justice to revenge Japanese to hide their miserable modern history and inferior complex against Japanese.
But if you hate and attack someone, you must be hated and attacked by him.
Korean must know this reality. It is so counterproductive.
P.S.
Chinese is so clever. They are big sponsors of Rep. Mike Honda, but they never attack Japan in the front line regarding comfort women controversy and use Korean to do so.
Korean must know why Chinese is so quiet against Japan now.
Maddlew
“Yeah, the victors didn’t go on trial. So what”
That was the point of the article.
“Ponta, you say “most”. How many are excluded from that most.”
As far as i read the testimonies and documents.
“As a victim’s tormented world begins to fade to black I don’t think an apology from the great grandson of some sick putz is going to help much”
Sure that is what I am saying. Japanese comfort women system was wrong just as brothel system during Korean War and around A-town was wrong.
I don’t care about apologies from the grandson of some “sick puts”
“But to deny that it even happened or to somehow try to rationalize it?”
Who denied it ? I didn’t. I showed Japanese government admit Nangjing massacre took place.
What is controversial is the death toll, but that
does not justify the massacre:Nanjing Massacre was a horrible crime.
I am afraid you are piling your ungrounded imagination on top of ungrounded accusation.
It’s lies!! All lies!!
globalvillageidiot
“Do the Japanese not bear some responsibility - at least of the moral variety - even if they used brokers/agents ”
Yes they do.
Japanese troop set up the house, transfered women, regulated illegal pimp/agents/brokers. But there were cases where the living condition was horrible. In kono’s words, there were cases where the brothels was running in coercive atmosphere. In view of that, Japanese government set up the funds, and PMs issues apology.
What has not been focused is Korean brokers role they played under and after Japanese rule, and the horrible living condition Korean prostitutes
had to go through after Japanese rule.
When I read many comments on the above, it seems there are so many Korean here.
Is it convenient for you to insist 200,000 of Korean women were abducted by Japanese soldiers?
Korean did not fight when Korea was colonized by Japan. (Except some terrorism and riots.)
Korean did not fight for its independence except some small numbers of terrorists in the foreign countries.
And do you like to insist Korean did not fight at all even if 200,000 of Korean daughters and sisters were kidnapped by Japanese soldiers?
I know Korean likes to become almighty victim like Jews.
But such kind Koreans do not understand they are insulting Korean men in those days as coward.
“Japanese comfort women system was wrong just as brothel system during Korean War and around A-town was wrong.”
Keep up the rationalizing and excuses Ponta. Many, if not most Japanese have this kind of view. It’s not really surprising why China and Korea just yawns when Japan makes another irrelevant apology with strings attached, only designed to avert international criticisms with vaguely worded double speak.
Having said that, I say Korea should make Japan irrelevant. I would love to see the day when Korea just ignores the BS coming out of Japanese politicians mouths.
“Robert Koehler your flag
Posted March 29, 2007 at 12:04 pm | Permalink
It’s lies!! All lies!!”
Who is telling lies? What are they lying about?
“Who is telling lies? What are they lying about?”
One perfect example: jion999.
cm
Keep up the rationalizing and excuses, cm.
But the fact remains that Korean had the similar system during Korean war and around A-town.
Korean government has not set up fund and has not apologized.
International community will be surprised to know that. It is just that Korea, except North Korea, has been relatively invisible to the world.
Koreans have become rich now. GDP of Korea is 12th in the world.
However, in the statistic of US to show the numbers of arrested illegal prostitutes, Korean occupied 23.5%, No.1 in nationalities.
How do you explain this reality?
(Korean)
http://www.donga.com/fbin/outp.....0609250118
(English)
http://english.donga.com/srv/s.....r=20060925
Will you criticize American for the abduction of Korean women and forcing them to work as sex slaves 60 years hence?
Many Koreans on a Korea-based blog about Korea? Go figure.
“However, in the statistic of US to show the numbers of arrested illegal prostitutes, Korean occupied 23.5%, No.1 in nationalities.”
Because bubba, modern day prostitution in Korea has nothing to do with what happened 70 years ago. You have some clear problems separating issues that are not related and are comparing apples with pineapples. Unless what you’re suggesting is that Korean women are borned to be natural prostitutes (I do believe that is a common belief in Japan).
cm
“modern day prostitution in Korea has nothing to do with what happened 70 years ago”
Even if the way the brokers deceive women and exploit women is the same?
It’s the quite the leap of logic to compare today’s Korean prostitutes plying their trade in Miari, with comfort women of 70 years ago, who got dragged into battlefield fronts in South East Asia where many were simply raped or murdered or killed in action (no pun intended).
For foreigners except Korean;
If you like to understand the background of comfort women controversy, you must know the inferior complex of Koreans who forgive any kinds of lies if they criticize Japan.
Korean learned a lot of modern technologies and Japanese cultures during the colonial period. But Korean could not admit this reality and fabricated the all of origins and histories.
Taekwondo is the most famous case.
If you can read Korean, read this. You could understand why haraboji told a lie.
http://www.donga.com/docs/maga.....40010.html
If you can read English only, this is good either. You would understand how Korean fabricated the history of Korean national martial arts.
http://winstonstableford.com/identity.html
Korean ex-comfort women have become national heroines because they are criticizing Japan.
If there are some women who confess they became prostitutes of Japanese soldiers for money, what will happen to them?
They must be criticized as “chinirupa” or “traitors” by Korean.
This is a reality of Korean society.
jion999
You are the perfect example who has an inferiority complex here. Covering the ears with your hand, closing your eyes, just shouting to the wall ” We were not bad, it’s not our fault”.
If a Korean and a Japanese had a contest of who is most stubborn, who would win?
tomojiro
Personal attack?
Take it easy, ponta.
Can’t you answer to my posts properly?
You are just running away from answering every time.(笑）
The difference here, Ponta and Jion999, the US government in no way condone nor is involved in kidnapping, recruiting of Korean women. Furthermore, the US government frawns upon the exploitation of women through deceit, fraud, and violence. For instance, the US government does not force Korean women to open their legs to US soldiers in Iraqi battlefields where they get blown to bits from RPG rocket attacks. Furthermore, the US does not have a secret government program to run military prostitution camps where women are thrown away like garbage after they’ve been used up.
But we all know what happened in WWII with how Japan treated their neighbors. Not that I care a rat’s ass about getting another meaningless one quarter apology. But it would be nice if Japan did the morally right things to give back what is rightfully owed (not really compensations). For example like paying the back wages to surviving Korean labourers who got ripped off, and returning the bodies of the dead Korean labourers who died in the black mines due to hunger, abuse, overwork, and murder. That would be a huge step in the right direction.
Allow me again to summarize jion999’s argument:
“It’s lies. All lies. By Koreans. Who are lying liars who lie.”
cm—I might point out perhaps the most obvious contextual difference between Korean prostitution exports to the States and the comfort women of the 1930s, namely, that as I look outside my office toward Gwanghwamun, nowhere do I see the U.S. Government-General.
tomojiro
I am explaining my idea with URLs of evidences.
How about you?
Laughing hahaha and a slander?
It is the the perfect example of “Covering the ears with your hand, closing your eyes, just shouting to the wall ” (笑）
If you have courage to show your justice, explain something, not a slander. (笑)
Robert
Not exactly correct. You have forgotten to add the “chinese”, and the american government (who are brainwashed by sino-korean propaganda).
tomojiro, not exactly correct either.
You forgot to add the whores of Phillipines, Taiwan, Malaysia, Netherlands, and others, who have the same “brain washing”.
Hard to deny the Nanjing massacre. Even if you discount the thousands of reports from the Chinese (who - like Koreans - can’t be entirely trusted to be objective re Japan) - several of the witnesses were foreigners, and there is a raft of photographic evidence that’s impossible to refute.
One foreign witness was a nazi member, who set up a safety zone in Nanjing. He kept a diary on the attrocities, many of which defy belief. He had no vested interest in attacking Japan.
Also, if you take into account the psychology of the Japanese at the time - who considered themselves a super race to the extent that in comparison other peoples were mere animals - one begins to understand how they could carry out such crimes without conscience.
The hardline right-wingers in Japan do themselves a huge disservice by trying to water down the comfort women issue in the same breath and denying the Nanjing massacre - much akin to denying the holocaust. Their credibility has to be questioned.
In saying all that I’d be interested to find out how many Koreans are genuinely interested in helping the comfort women, as opposed to simply damaging Japan’s reputation. To me this whole sordid affair stinks of jingoism and inter-ethnic affray, rather than genuine concern for a group of abused people. Were Koreans genuinely concerned they’d be doing more (as Joshua has pointed out at OneFreeKorea time and time again) about stopping the traffic and forced prostitution of Koreans happening now in China/North Korea. Of course they aren’t, because the perpetrators of these crimes (the scale of which is comparable to the comfort women mobilization of yesteryear) are ethnic Koreans, not Japanese.
All the attention is on the comfort women.
But here’s another ticking bomb that has been relatively silent and ignored. But for how long?
And how will the Japanese defend and rationalize this one?
“But absent from Tokyo’s agenda will be another unresolved disgrace: decades of enforced removal to Japan for work-slavery of a million Koreans — including 12,000 laborers compelled to work under grotesque conditions in coal mines owned by a firm still run by the family of Japan’s foreign minister, Taro Aso.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/reed02022006.html
cm
Robert
Of course Korean doesn’t criticize American for Korean prostitutes. Because everybody knows they are prostitutes. Nothing more.
Korean didn’t criticize Japanese for comfort women either in 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. They started to criticize Japan after 1980s, after losing the memory of old reality.
So, I have a question for all of Korean here except abusing Tomojiro.
If you insist 200,000 of Korean women were abducted by Japanese soldiers, could you show me any news article which is the evidence that Korean protested for the abduction in 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s?
Korean did not do any protests or demonstrations for losing so many daughters and sisters?
Remember. The usual excuse that Korean families could not do so because of shame of rape does not work.
If daughters are abducted, raped and killed by Japanese soldiers, how the families know their daughters worked as comfort women?
OK? Go ahead.
What woman living in the 40s, 50, 60s and 70s in their right mind is going to admit that they spent the war years getting gang raped by the Imperial Japanese Army? Especially when the country was being run by Japanese collaborators? Even today, it’s believed most Korean rape victims do not report what happened to them due to the stigma surrounding rape.
You’re right that it was only in the 1980s—and the late 1980s, to be more precise—that people started talking about this issue, though. It was only in the late 1980s that people started talking about a lot of things. Democratization tends to have that effect on a society.
jion999, you have to understand Korean history.
1940’s Koreans were made to be third class Japanese citizens. They had no place for complaints.
1950’s was the Korean War, everybody was too busy warring and recovering from warring.
1960’s and 1970’s Korea was so poor that it was in no position to complain, especially after a military dictatorship who was a byproduct of Japanese military, took over.
What didn’t change though is the fact that all throughout the decades (40’s,50’s,60’s,70’s,80’s), S.Korea always had animosity against Japanese military rule over Korea. Why do you think that is?
Couldn’t agree more that there’s a serious disconnect there.
cm
You mean Korean were so busy for war and poorness that they did not make protests or demonstrations for abductions?
hahaha
You could find so many news articles and pictures of Korean making protests or demonstrations violently in 50s, 60s and 70s.
Don’t you see?
How do you explain it?
Find a better excuse.
Robert, 200 000 Korean women were supposedly kidnapped. Is there any newspaper article, protest, entry in a father, mother, brother or sisters diary detailing these events? Even one contemporary record of this? Did people wake up in the morning and say “oh, my daughter has disappeared. Oh well, time to get on with my life and not mention it and not report it to the police, not write about it, and not complain, because we Koreans are not a vociferous bunch, no sir”?
I do not buy the “Japanese collaborators” running the country for all these women remaining silent (all of them, supposedly 200 000 of them doing the same thing) because these “Japanese collaborators” were already undertaking a hostile stance towards Japan (mixed with realism, or course, in economic matters), with the occupation of Takeshima, anti Japanese education, the total ban on Japanese culture, etc.
There is no concrete difference to the way that Korean prostitutes were recruited then, and the way they are recruited now, except that back then parents would coerce their daughters to do it for the big payoff.
Korean is so notorious to love to make violent protests and demonstrations frequently.
Such kind of Korean did not make protests and demonstrations against Japan at all in 1940s, 50s, 60s, 70s even if they lost 200,000 their daughters and sisters.
Unbelievable.
As I told you, the usual excuse that Korean families could not do so because of shame of rape does not work.
If daughters are abducted, raped and killed by Japanese soldiers, how the families know their daughters worked as comfort women?
They lost their daughters and sisters suddenly without any reason. And those women did not come back even after the war.
Why their families kept quiet?
The family members of 200,000 women must be around 1 million!!!
What made them so quiet?
Please find a good excuse to make people of the world understand.
jion on shaku,
Korean men definately mobilized the comfort women for the Japanese soldiers - of this I have no doubt. But that does not absolve Japan of blame. Far from it. The mobilization of the comfort women for Japanese soldiers finds its root first in the fact of Japanese invasion, and second in the deliberate policy of subcontracting out such unpopular tasks to ethnic Koreans. Divide and conquer.
To paraphrase Cumings: Japan fractured the Korean national psyche, pitting Korean against Korean with consequences that continue down to our time.
There are many other examples of this philosophy of division by the Japanese. Many, if not most, of the police in Korea were ethnic Koreans, acting at the behest of their Japanese masters. Even camp guards in POW campes were often Koreans. It was a deliberate, cynical policy by the Japanese military, who were nothing if not shrewd. The fact that people in this day, in this forum, still point out the fact of colaboration as an excuse for imperial transgression attests to its success.
hoju_saram
”Korean men definitely mobilized the comfort women for the Japanese soldiers”
If you admit so, you and other Koreans must insist that the resolution of US house of representative is wrong. If you do not so, you must be criticized as a liar in the future.
“The mobilization of the comfort women for Japanese soldiers finds its root first in the fact of Japanese invasion”
It is wrong. How do you explain the tradition of “gisaeng” in Korea.
The system of military prostitutes is not bad to stop raping local women in the battlefields. Korean and US forces had similar system.
If Korean comfort women were not abducted by Japanese soldiers, there is no excuse to criticize Japanese.
You had better start to criticize Japan after wiping out all of pimps and gangs in your country.
You see?
Where is cm?
I am waiting for your reply for my questions of No. 49, 53, and 55.
Do you run away without a word? (笑）
cm
“The difference here, Ponta and Jion999, the US government in no way condone nor is involved in kidnapping, recruiting of Korean women.”
And the US regulated illegal pimps, right?
You are neo-nationalist according to Robert.
Robert
“cm—I might point out perhaps the most obvious contextual difference between Korean prostitution exports to the States and the comfort women of the 1930s, namely, that as I look outside my office toward Gwanghwamun, nowhere do I see the U.S. Government-General.”
But you have seen a lot of GI at A town, buying “western whores” in Korean term? No?
And Korean women have been deceived/exploited by Korean brokers, No?
Why do you keep covering it up?
cm
“All the attention is on the comfort women.
But here’s another ticking bomb that has been relatively silent and ignored. But for how long?”
I have a lot to say about it, but this is off the
topic, and it only goes to show your willing to hide Korean injustice and the will to keep bashing Japan.
Robert
“You’re right that it was only in the 1980s—and the late 1980s, to be more precise—that people started talking about this issue, though. It was only in the late 1980s that people started talking about a lot of things. Democratization tends to have that effect on a society”
So are Korean people going to talk and keep bashing themselves about rape/deception/coercion of Korean brothels during Korean war and around A-town from now on?
There is something wrong with this game.
When Japan acknowledges that she did wrongs and apologize, she keeps being bashed.
when Korea ignore the wrongs she committed, she goes unnoticed, uncriticized.
hoju_saram
“Korean men definately mobilized the comfort women for the Japanese soldiers - of this I have no doubt. But that does not absolve Japan of blame”
I agree.
“The mobilization of the comfort women for Japanese soldiers finds its root first in the fact of Japanese invasion, and second in the deliberate policy of subcontracting out such unpopular tasks to ethnic Koreans. Divide and conquer.”
In a way, you can blame everything on Japan because it happened under Japanese rule.
But the fact is that Korean brokers has been deceiving/forcing/exploiting Korean women with or without Japanese rule.
I don’t see why some people do not want to face this fact.
ponta-san
Am I so aggressive today?
I can not change my style. (笑）
I never said 200,000 Korean women were kidnapped. I’m sure kidnappings did take place, but I don’t think the Japanese military needed to resort to going house to house when it could rely on agents to do its dirty work and after August 23, 1944, when it could divert drafted female labor. Frankly, if Abe and Co. simply arguing about whether Japanese troops launched an organized campaign to kidnap women, it wouldn’t be such a big deal. But it should be pretty clear, especially at this point, that it’s about more than that—it’s about Tokyo trying to wash its hands of the problem by a) either blaming Korean pimps, or b) calling the comfort women ordinary prostitutes.
Robert Koehler
It is so interesting that Japanese comfort women never complain about their sad destiny and never criticize others.
Korean old women who are shouting, crying, abusing others.
They are saying the truth because they make such a big performance every time?
I feel there must be big difference of culture between Japan and Korea.
Robert have you evidence about that the Japanese military systematicaly diverted drafted female labor to comfort women?
That was the problem and a point of missunderstanding from the beginning when the comfort women problem became official. Again there are no historical evidence on the Japanese side that the so called 挺身隊 were systematicaly diverted to comfort women. In the mid-ninties the Japanese government had officialy protested that these confusion about comfort women should be removed from Korean history books, and as far as I know, the answer from the Korean government was, that they were aware that these both are quite different but there were some examples as it seems, that some brothels and pimps disguised their recruitement campain as that for the teishintai.
Robert
“don’t think the Japanese military needed to resort to going house to house when it could rely on agents to do its dirty work and after August 23, 1944, when it could divert drafted female labor.”
I agree. And I don’t think neither Korean government nor the US troop needed to resort to going house to house when it could rely on agents.
“Frankly, if Abe and Co. simply arguing about whether Japanese troops launched an organized campaign to kidnap women, it wouldn’t be such a big deal.”
Huh?
Am I mistaken people on this blog made a big fuss when I said Japanese did not systematically kidnapped women?
“But it should be pretty clear, especially at this point, that it’s about more than that—it’s about Tokyo trying to wash its hands of the problem by a) either blaming Korean pimps, or b) calling the comfort women ordinary prostitutes.”
From early on—from he took office, Abe has been consistent he affirmed Kono’s statement.
It should be pretty clear, especially at this point, that Korea and the media is not concerned with women’s right, but political game stimulated
by Honda at the US congress.
“after August 23, 1944, when it could divert drafted female labor.”
Ops, I miss that one, thank Tomojiro.
Women’s Brigade is for female workers mobilized to the factories.
It has nothing to do with recruiting comfort women.
Some Korean people keep being confused about it.
tomojiro
Your comment to Korean does not work.
Korean is using the opinions of Japanese leftists and broadcasting that Japanese abuducted Korean woman and raped.
Even if you try to stop the runaway of Koreans, they do not stop to use any kind of imaginations to criticize Japan.
They just like to degrade Japan.
If the opinion of Japanese leftists is useful, they just use it. That is it.
Their motivation of them is not for justice.
It is revenge. Nothing more.
You had better understand this reality sooner or later.
Jion999
I hate to preach you,and I wan’t do it again, but at least try to read this book.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%92.....amp;sr=1-1
It gives you a more subtle look and understanding what it means to become a colony.
No wonder some people are furious.
They are not informed of the fact.
(Or do they not want to know the fact, because they can not keep bashing Japan?)
Robert,
http://www.geocities.jp/nakano.....9-519.htm#女子挺身勤労令(昭和19年勅令第519号)
http://www.ndl.go.jp/horei_jp/.....t00549.htm
Here is a law about the female mobilization in 1944. Let your reliable friends, sonagi or anybody familiar with Japanese, read it.
OK, lets say that the Japanese military did not do that. Lets says their agents did it, and their techniques included diverting labor from the 여자정신대. Lets repeat the question again.
“Is there any newspaper article, protest, entry in a father, mother, brother or sisters diary detailing these events? Even one contemporary record of this? Did people wake up in the morning and say “oh, my daughter has disappeared. Oh well, time to get on with my life and not mention it and not report it to the police, not write about it, and not complain, because we Koreans are not a vociferous bunch, no sir”?”
Perhaps you could also explain why prostitutes were in such short supply in Korea that Japan had to force women to become prostitutes. Perhaps you could also explain why there were willing prostitutes for the US occupation force in Korea immediately after the war when the Japanese were seemingly unable to find any (if you believe the “all the comfort women were forced” idea).
Tomojiro
“I hate to preach you, and I won’t do it again, but at least try to read this book.”
If I have a chance, I will read that book.
I understand your goodwill to Korean.
But it is reallity that the activities of Japanese leftists for the friendship between Japan and Korea have been used by Korean nationalists to attack Japan.
The controversies of comfort women and Yasukuni……
Those topics have been broadcasted by Japanese leftists first and do you believe those activities helped the friendship between Japan and Korea?
No.
They are just another excuse for Korean to hate Japanese. Now they are broadcasting that Japanese is rapist in the world.
Korean teaches about comfort women and Yasukuni to Korean children and they learn how to hate Japanese either.
And this chain of hate never stops.
Do you really believe Japan and Korea would have a good relationship if Japanese continue to apologize forever?
It is impossible for Japanese, but Korean have become to be not satisfied if Japanese don’t apologize.
It is an unhappy situation.
Japanese will hate Korean if this situation continues.
I am wondering the motivation of Japanese leftists.
Do you really hope the peace of Japan-Korea relationship?
Or, in other words, why aren’t there records of Koreans complaining to the colonial police and military, and why aren’t there reports in the papers of a fascist dictatorship at war that the government was involved in impressing sexual slave labor? And at any rate, I already said that I don’t think the Japanese military resorted to systemic kidnapping.
Perhaps because with Japan fielding a several million man military fighting throughout China, Southeast Asia and the Pacific, demand was higher?
Ponta—I’m well aware of what the law said. Nor did I say the stated objective of the law was to recruit sexual labor.
Robert, read any history book about and name one that mentions any incidents related to comfort women. Usually historical events have names, dates, journal entries, etc. They do happen in a historical void.
If you say that you don’t think that the Japanese military resorted to systematic kidnapping, then you agree with Prime Minister Abe, because that is exactly what he said. You criticised him at the time he said that, and if I recall correctly, problems with the translation in the NYT was dismissed as “obscurantism”.
So what is your opinion on the comfort women? That all of them were forced or tricked into it? Or that some of them were, but it was not systematic, and there were actually willing prostitutes among the comfort women? Please elaborate.
Robert
thanks.
“Ponta—I’m well aware of what the law said. Nor did I say the stated objective of the law was to recruit sexual labor.”
But you said,
“I don’t think the Japanese military needed to resort to going house to house when it could rely on agents to do its dirty work and after August 23, 1944, when it could divert drafted female labor”
Were you not talking about this law? This law was enacted and executed on August 23, 1944.
So what were you talking about? May I ask?
OK, I’ll say it again, with italics to help:
Robert
Thanks but, Robert, I am not a Jap in need of an English lesson, as you seem to be suggesting.
Okay, I’ll ask with italics to help:
Where is your evidence that Japan diverted the labor needed for factories as required by law?
So, is there any Korean to answer my question of No. 49, 53, and 55?
cm has run away and nobody can not make a reply.
If Korean tries to insist that 200,000 of Korean were abducted by Japanese soldiers, they would suffer how to deceive to keep their lies forever.
The same situation of fabricated history of Taekwondo.
You could deceive the world once. But it is so difficult to continue to deceive forever.
it’s not worth replying to your kind. But I will. 5 minutes of my precious time spent your kind. What a waste, but here is my final answer.
53. Lt. Okamoto.
49. Lt. Okamoto.
55. Lt. Okamoto.
Happy? You do deny Nan Jing massacre, Unit 731, Comfort Women, in part or whole, do you not?
In post #16, Ponta wrote:
“In that paragraph I wanted to ask what the essential difference was between two reports.
One report(Korean version) emphasize that women was deceived.
Another report in 1944 also claims the women were deceived.
The part I cited is sufficient enough to show that.”
However, you posted the quote sans the critical first sentence identifying the pimps as Japanese along with the allegation that most pimps were Korean. It is ironic and looks deceptive.
“And it is also natural most of pimps in Korea were Koreans. Japanese didn’t have to speak Koreans, but to deceive Korean women, you need to speak Koreans.
In post #15, I asked you for proof. Repeating your allegation is not proof. As for your “logical” conclusion that most pimps had to be Korean because of the imagined language barrier, the recruitment ads I’ve seen in links provided by you and others were written in Japanese, not Korean. Many Koreans could read them because Japanese was the medium of instruction in schools and the language of government business. Moreover, as you recall from So Far from the Bamboo Grove, a number of Japanese, like members of Yoko Watkins’ family, could speak “perfect Korean.”
In plain English, you have no evidence to back up your assertion that most pimps were Korean, and your illogical conclusion flies in the face of historical accounts like So Far from the Bamboo Grove.
wkj
If you could not reply logicaly, you had better be quiet.
Even if you lose your face, I don’t give a damn.
(笑）
wkj
What is the meaning of your ID?
“We kill Jap”?
(笑）
I feel so pity that you have such kind of inferior complex against Japanese. (笑）
I have little time for some of the extreme nationalists in China or Korea who use any little excuse to demonize the Japanese, whether it involves hate sites on the net or teaching hatred in the classroom. Although I think Japan, when compared to Germany, has done a pretty poor job of coming to terms with its historical shortcomings, I don’t think the average Japanese deserves to be hated for it.
I also don’t believe that ALL Koreans who wound up working in brothels or factories or serving in the Japanese military were outright kidnapped, though that doesn’t mean there wasn’t trickery - Japanese and/or local, Japanese pressure to support the empire’s war effort, and an utter lack of options for those who had to get involved.
However, comfort stations, forced labor, and general brutality did play a role in Japan’s occupation and administration of much of Asia. The Japanese brought the war and the misery that accompanied it on the people they conquered in the 30s and 40s. The percentage of the dirty work done by collaborators and middlemen versus that done by the Japanese isn’t the point. Who was running the show?
“wkj
What is the meaning of your ID?
“We kill Jap”?”
Very good deductions. How did you know?
I too will waste 5 minutes of my time. Again, as it has been pointed out again and again, it was in the best interest of the Korean military dictatorship government (Japanese collaborators who were the ruling elite) to cover up, shut up, and hide the truth. That’s what collaborators do, to protect themselves.
globalvillageidiot
When Germany went to WW2, it was only one years for Austrian to unite with Germany.
But they feel guilty for WW2.
In Asia, there is a funny county who hoped to unite with Japan 100 years ago, and enjoyed the status as Japanese for 35 years, and criticize Japanese most after Japan lost the war and pretend they were just like a victim like Jews.
You must remember that 149 Korean was guilty for war crime and 23 were executed after the war.
Because Allied soldiers could not recognize the difference between Japanese and Korean, such kind of excuse “I am a Korean” did not work.
cm
Welcome back.
When do you reply to my questions of No. 49, 53, and 55?
“it has been pointed out again and again, it was in the best interest of the Korean military dictatorship government (Japanese collaborators who were the ruling elite) to cover up, shut up, and hide the truth. That’s what collaborators do, to protect themselves.”
It is not Japanese fault that you had a military dictatorship.
It was your fault.
Even if you do not like the policies of the military dictatorship, it was your government and you have to take responsibility for that.
Understand?
jion,
“there is a funny county who hoped to unite with Japan 100 years ago, and enjoyed the status as Japanese for 35 years”
Supremecist and disgusting.
“You must remember that 149 Korean was guilty for war crime and 23 were executed after the war.”
149 war criminals pales in comparison to the horrors inflicted by the Japanese. You can say what you want about collaberation and muddy the debate about who exactly should be blamed for the comfort women issue, but comparing Japan’s WW2 crimes to Korea’s is infantile. The Japanese inflicted misery on such a grand scale as to be almost unimaginable.
I’m not Korean, I’m Australia - to this day my grandfather won’t speak about what he saw in Papua New Guinea.
This debate finds fresh tinder not just in Korean nationalists but it people like you, who refuse to accept that the Japanese had ill intent or caused any harm in the recent century.
All I know is that most Western doctors did not know of the disease beriberi, caused by a deficiency in thiamine, before Allied war prisoners were released after Japan’s capitulation. Those prisoners had been kept on a starvation diet of white rice, which lacks thiamine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriberi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_rice
PS. Most American rice is parboiled rice because the process drives thiamine from the husk into the grain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parboiled_rice
“globalvillageidiot
When Germany went to WW2, it was only one years for Austrian to unite with Germany.”
Actually, Germany annexed Austria BEFORE WW2. And there were plenty of Hungarian, Croatian, Ukrainian, etc. traitor underlings who wound up executed for the work they did in association with the Germans, just as some Koreans did for serving with the Japanese. So what? Who was calling the shots?
Straight back at you, citizen of the Empire of Japan.
“In Asia, there is a funny county who hoped to unite with Japan 100 years ago, and enjoyed the status as Japanese for 35 years, and criticize Japanese most after Japan lost the war and pretend they were just like a victim like Jews.”
I don’t think there is any point debating with people as this guy, who I think honestly believe half the crap that he reads and writes. The sad part is, he’s representative of the new Japan.
As I have said before, historically verifiable proof is important and Ponta, Shakuhachi, and even jion999 have made some good points, or at least raised some important questions that should not be ignored or dismissed. Often though, I read this at the end of the day and am too tired to write all the rebuttal I might wish. However, I cannot let this one slide (by jion999):
Not a bad idea? I cannot d