The JoongAng Ilbo (English) looks at why Koreans might come off as rude and unpleasant to strangers. Of course, as a New Yorker, I hardly notice this. (HT to Ampontan)
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You need to go back and spend some time in New York. I’ve just returned to the rabbit hole after 2 weeks in Manhattan. People unfailingly said things like “you first”, “go ahead”, “excuse me” and held doors open and asked if we needed help (although I lived there for 15 years, things have changed quite a bit and my sense of it must have registered on my face). Apart from people whom you know and people who are trying, more or less transparently, to separate you from your money, this sort of public civility, even courtesy, is unseen and unheard of in Korea.
Korea has a far stronger sense of distinction between those you personally know and value (family, friends and coworkers) as opposed to the rest of humanity (strangers). They treat the former better than we Westerners do, and treat the latter much worse; not much sense of equal democratic citizenship here. Guests are treated very well, to have the status of guest of Koreans is a wonderful thing, you’ll leave with a great impression of kind generosity, sometimes to an amazing extent. But to the extent that you are treated as a stranger out in public, you’ll come away feeling that Koreans are quite rude and uncaring — far worse than New York…
sanshinseon, and as outsiders we fall between the cracks. Just look at how Korean university students react in the presence of their Korean teachers and how they behave in their classes with foreign teachers. Simply put, some students show us disrespect because they think they can get away with it. Luckily, you can tell which one has the potential of being disruptive. From the first class, they start testing you, trying to see what they can get away with–these particular kids have the minds of a 2 year-old, really. It gets old pretty quickly.
and some have the minds of a foreigner
I have a personal theory that national or regional rudeness is directly proportional to the average density of population per unit of square area and has nothing to do with Koreans being “the Italians of Asia”.
Moreover, foreigners tend to be unnecessarily verbose and may have the tendency to ask obtuse questions which will completely confuse and flabbergast the mind of a Korean. To the pali-pali minded Korean, who has no time for such idle chatter, and what’s more, don’t care, of course, it is totally unacceptable.
there have been studies with rats showing higher rates of homosexuality correlated with increasing density. however, i haven’t seen any studies on the rudeness factor for rats.
sanshinseon is pointing in the right direction.
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Which must be why the Singaporeans and Dutch are notorious for their incivility.“XXXXXXX” must be “XXXXXXXX”, right?
From the article:
‘Anti-social behavior displayed by Koreans is said to have its origin in the agricultural society of the country’s past. In close-knit communities where members care for each other like family, strangers were rare.’
Hmm - would the reporter care to explain how Korea’s past differs from most any other country’s, in this regard? Or particularly, how its past differs from any other Asian country’s, in this sense?
A counter-theory: it’s the Joongang’s fault. People were simply nicer in the days before that paper was put to press.
Italians of Asia? Sure, why not? What with the sheer volume of Gucci®™ and Prada®™ knockoffs produced and exported by this country, they very well could be. Also, 9 out of 10 Korean females, especially in Gangnam, are certified oenophiles and spaghetti freaks.
I’d be interested to hear from anyone of Italian descent how they feel about this comparison — especially if they are in Korea.
How about the Peruvians of Asia, or the Ugandans of Asia, or maybe even the Americans of Asia? Pick a nationality, ny nationality…Or, how about the Koreans of Asia.
[DELETED. Reason: Inappropriate, Off Topic, & Inappropriate Comments Should Be Ignored.]
Dogbert wrote:‘“XXXXXXX” must be “XXXXXX”, right?”
Yes. He initially forgot to change his gravatar when he changed his username. Maybe he wants a fresh start.
Laugh, but “Netizen Kim” expressed the sentiment I almost always had walking the sidewalks or riding in the streets of Seoul: Koreans are simply in too much of a hurry to bother with manners. That was not a vibe I got in Italy.
As I wrote, people in several equivalently crowded societies somehow manage to maintain at least a veneer of public civility.
“People unfailingly said things like “you first”, “go ahead”, “excuse me” and held doors open and asked if we needed help—— this sort of public civility, even courtesy, is unseen and unheard of in Korea.”
So why bother with such uncivilised land then?
A comparison thats definately unfair on the the italians…
Maybe this “Italians of Asia” stuff has some merit after all
http://tcc.itc.it/people/rocchi/fun/europe.html
I admit that oftentimes Koreans do seem unable to grasp the concept of an organized queue. Anyone kyopo who denies that obviously hasn’t had the common experience of being around the coffee and snacks table in the chin-gyo-shil of a crowded Korean church after a service.
But I’ll never forget one wise-ass kid who cut in front of me on a queue for guk and bap. He quoted Luke 13:30, “And Behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.”
NK, that was hilarious…
I’d have to say that we are a bit more organized then Italians on a macro basis, but on a micro basis, we are almost as chaotic as they are…
Speaking as a true paysano, I would say that the similartity between Koreans and Italians is the emphasis on family and eating. Koreans and Italians love to gather around dinner and family although being Italian, I have to say that no cuisine comes close to beating ours.:)
However, I would say besides that, the similarties stop. To Italians or any other southern European, high stress and fast paced nations in East Asia are more like American than anything in Europe. There is more emphasis on living to work and being rushed (pali pali) which is more similar to the American mentality than the slower pace of life you find in Italy.
bbundaegi has a point; several actually, but one that reminds me of the infuriating insularity of most Koreans. Over the years I have heard from Koreans too munerous to count in all walks of life about the superiority of Korea life founded on the emphasis on family, along with an oft-stated observation that as an American I wouldn’t understand that. Like bbundaegi, though, I grew up in an extended Italian-American household. Even after my family and all my aunts and uncles moved away from my grandfather’s house, every Sunday - every Sunday - the entire family returned there to attend Mass and then spend the rest of the day eating and socializing. Three times a year, everyone made the trips to the various cemeteries around the city where previous generations were interred. Hell, even my paternal Anglo-German family did that, and it involved hundreds of miles of travel across Eastern Canada three times a year. The one positive aspect of the Korean tradition that I have experienced is the adoption into my wife’s family, which befitting their history, they have extended to me in the manner of the Goryo dynasty times, when it was as common for husbands to become members of the wifes’ families as vice versa. The suffocating patriarchy of Neo-Confucianism was only imposed over several centuries after the Joseon usurpation, and even then - judging by the number of royal rescripts condemning and penalizing the practice, the old Korean matrlineal traditions remained alive and well, especially in the south and among the older aristocratic strata who were on the wrong side of the Joseon revolution and/or otherwise opted out of the Seoul vortex for the countryside.