45-year-old Korean-American Jason Lee did his part to fight rising violent crime in the United States by shooting and killing one would-be robber [NBC10] and wounding another when they tried to knock over his Philadelphia diner last Thursday.
On Thursday morning, [Lee] shot and killed 20-year-old Cornell Toombs after he and 24-year-old Gary Williams pointed a gun at a diner employee, authorities said. The men demanded cash and threatened to open fire during the attempted robbery, Lee explained.
As the owner’s wife stepped to action and started opening the cash drawer because the cashier was shaking too badly to do it, the store owner grabbed his registered gun and prepared himself for the worst.
One of the robbers fired at Lee, but missed. Lee shot Toombs in the head and pumped two bullets into Williams — one in the face and another in the back, according to police.
Williams was listed in critical but stable condition on Friday morning, authorities said.
The odd thing is, this wasn’t the first time Lee has had to pop a cap in a would-be robber’s ass—he’d been robbed twice before, and in one of those robberies, he had shot and killed a robber.
The aftermath was caught on cell-phone video—see here [NBC10].
See also in Korean, via the Dong-A Ilbo.
59 Comments
The White House needs to strip the Presidential Medal of Freedom from George Tenant’s chest (or Paul Bremer’s, or Donald Rumsfeld’s) and pin it on this dude.
And then he needs to move his diner to the burbs.
Well done, Mr. Lee!!!
some of these crooks shoot you anyway, after you’ve done all you’ve wanted for them, sort of as their goodbye present.
Don’t know the law real well, but the law should be, if you walk in with a gun, store owner should be fully entitled to shoot your head off.
Use of deadly force in self-defense and the defense of others is a cherished American right. There is a very good website called Use of Force which goes through all the issues surrounding the right to self-defense and liabilities under criminal and civil law consequent to use of force.
Maybe he should tape copies of the news coverage of the previous two shootings on the front door of the store or something…But I guess that assumes that future would-be armed robbers could read.
And, I think many states do have laws permitting use of lethal force to defend self and others and,in some states, property.
Also, under some “parties to a crime” statues, the other robber could be tried for the murder of his accomplice, since he took part in the commission of the crime that resulted in the shootings.
Similar case happened when I lived in Alabama. Two brothers decided to rob a convenience store. Owner, when faced with gun-toting robber, was quicker on the draw with his own gun. Shot and killed robber #1, wounded #2. Whole thing caught on security camera. He wasn’t charged. Robber #2 was, however, charged with the murder of Robber #1, his brother, and also convicted, I believe.
You DO NOT ever wanna mess with these first-generation KAs that run stores in the big cities– particularly after Latasha Harlins and 사이구 back in ‘92.
A lot of KA shopowner types particularly in LA, Chicago, NYC area are hard-boiled to the core. They’d have no problem doing a double-tap to your head should you threaten their livelihood and way of life.
They are definitely not those warm and fuzzy boyband-wannnabe types or ditzy chicks you’ll see running the cash register at your local Family Mart over here who’ll cream their jeans just b/c you speak English.
No, rather a heckuva lot of them are Korean exilees or Vietnam vets who don’t exactly have a metrosexual Weltanschauung — what with this guy’s double-tapping skills, I’d wager that he’s ex-HID.
He did get two head-shots under fire.
I think his wife deserves honorable mention for her bravery under extreme duress as well.
@ H. Kim: I have not looked at the statistics for L.A. shopkeepers since 1991, but while I agree with you, up to that time, at least, the bad guys had killed more Korean-American shopkeepers (and family members) than vice versa.
Not wanting to put a damper on the festive spirits in here, but did anyone else feel mildly sorry for the guy crawling on the pavement with half his face blown off?
….
Sorry he lived?
but did anyone else feel mildly sorry for the guy crawling on the pavement with half his face blown off?
One scumbag gone, the other in prison. Good job Mr. Lee.
The pic is just begging for a caption;
“Didn’t think the finger was loaded, huh?”
good for mr. lee, as much as killing anyone is “good,” but next time maybe you just want to give the guys the money.
I’d say he’s not only lucky to be alive, but lucky that it wasn’t a crotch shot. Many gangbangers in the ER these days aren’t as lucky, I’m told.
Mr. Lee 3, bad guys zero. And as noted above, he made two head shots, with a pistol, under pressure. Somehow I think there is less luck and more skill on his part. I’d go with what works.
You’re every schoolground bully’s wet dream.
I was robbed at gunpoint while working in a retail store, and I don’t think Mr. Lee is a hero. From the description of the events in the article linked above and here (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1797821/posts), Lee initiated the firefight by taking out his gun, and thus endangered everyone in the restaurant. In MOST cases, if you hand over the cash, you will not get hurt. No amount of money in the cash register is worth risking your life or the lives of fellow employees and customers. Lee, his family, and his customers are fortunate Lee is a good shot. This heroic story could have turned out very differently if the first gunman hadn’t missed.
Cases where unarmed and cooperative employees are murdered usually happen before or after hours when there are no customers. If Lee and his wife had been alone, then Lee’s risky move might have made more sense.
Perhaps not a hero but really, really cool.
I still feel sorry for Mr. Lee having to unload on someone; it is not a good feeling having to do such even though it was needed.
I do not like Philly either.
Do you think the criminal would have felt sorry for Mr. Lee if he had shot him? I doubt it.
More likely, he would have done an improvised jig over Mr. Lee’s prone figure before shooting him again.
Forget handing over money quietly; here’s hoping Mr. Lee’s act serves as a deterrent to other urban scum.
Let’s see, 2 guys walk in w/ firearms, threaten to use them, and Mr. Lee initiated it? That’s a heck of an analysis, Sonagi.
Love the surname of the deceased.
Good on him I say.
No.
“Let’s see, 2 guys walk in w/ firearms, threaten to use them”
Make that 4 guys walked in, 2 were shot dead, and 2 were maimed. Because Lee did the exact same thing back in 1993. Deja vu all over gain in 2007. Criminals should be alerted not to mess with this guy because he doesn’t seem to miss.
Sonagi,
Mr. Lee put two potential killers out of action. Even if Mr. Lee had given them the money and he, his wife, and the customers had managed to stay alive, the two armed robbers’ next victims may not have been as lucky.
In my book, Mr. Lee “is” a hero.
I call BS. The criminals who walked into his store with firearms initiated the incident. One got what he deserved, the other a bit less so. The law agrees, which is why it’s called self-defense.
Jason Lee’s version of the story
http://www.philly.com/mld/inqu.....874467.htm
Every life is presumed precious.
The presumption, however, is rebuttable.
I’m seldom happy for people to get blown away, but it’s hard to feel bad for the scumbags Mr. Lee shot.
I’m curious though as to whether or not a guy like Mr. Lee would face to possibility of criminal charges were he to open up and A) shoot an innocent person (even though it appears he knows how to handle a handgun pretty well) or B) initiate a larger exchange of fire that resulted in one or several bystanders being killed or maimed.
Just wondering…
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Weird. Usually on this blog (at least since I visited here), it’s white Western expat vs. Korean and kyopo (the way the discussion threads have been so far). But now it’s more like humanists and Democrats vs. hard-core Republicans. And even the most virulent anti-Korean, gbevers, is on the side of the Korean-American in this one particular case.What has this world come to?
This guy is my wife’s cousin. I feel sorry for him because of what he had to do.
I wish the robbers had made different choices so they could avoid an eternity in Hell for their actions. They, and they alone, escalated the situation by pointing guns at restaurant staff, including Jason’s wife. Anyone willing to rob a place in broad daylight is asking to be 86′d from the gene pool.
Anyone who disagrees with using deadly force for self-defense under any circumstances can just give me $100.00, since they’re too cowardly to defend themselves or their families.
>>>”Weird. Usually on this blog (at least since I visited here), it’s white Western expat vs. Korean and kyopo (the way the discussion threads have been so far).”
When all you have is a hammer….
Given that the police are either incompetent, unwilling, or unable to do their job properly, I welcome the use of Koreans as front-line shock troops in the war declared by minorities upon functioning society.
I can’t speak for Gerry, but I for one can’t help but support a man, kyopo or not, fighting to save the lives of his family.
I think if the majority of people, including myself, had been in this situation, the best and most rational thing to do would have been to let the robbers take the money and go. Especially considering that I probably can’t hit a barn door if I tried. I’m reminded of that gruesome scene at the donut shop from Boogie Nights.
he had six shots. One revolver. One of them pointed a gun, was counting to 10, until he was going to shoot.
Good enough shot to hit 2 heads with 3 shots.
He did the absolute right thing.
Stop blaming the wrong person.
thanks for the good link, Mr. Carr.
Jason Lee should get a street named after him. He gave the riff-raff the only thing they understand, force. I don’t feel the least bit sorry for their lead poisoning. You live by the sword, you die by it. The Gang-bangers, most uneducated blacks love to pick on the Asians. Street/sweet justice!
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>>> But now it’s more like humanists and Democrats vs. hard-core Republicans. And even the most virulent anti-Korean, gbevers, is on the side of the Korean-American in this one particular case.
It seems to me that the wisdom of this kind of self-defense action very much depends on how familiar and skillful you are with using a gun, your gun. Jason Lee seems to really know what he’s doing with the thing, and the threat was real, so it was the right thing to do. A beginner/amateur pulling out a gun and trying to play the hero is being pretty stupid, would be much better to just give the money and duck — trying to use the gun would bring far greater chance of getting yourself killed and/or harming innocent bystanders.
How fortunate we expat-residents are that Korea is relatively gun-free, that we don’t have to fear hardly ever having to face this situation — any sort of armed robbery is so rare — except when we Americans visit the good old homeland, of course. I find that one of the weirdest and worst things about visiting the USA on vacation — having to deal with the threat of armed criminality, all the neighborhoods you shouldn’t even enter, the fear after dark.
“…How fortunate we expat-residents are that Korea is relatively gun-free, that we don’t have to fear…I find that one of the weirdest and worst things about visiting the USA on vacation — having to deal with the threat of armed criminality, all the neighborhoods you shouldn’t even enter, the fear after dark.”
You’re absolutely right. of course. We Americans need to immediately bring home our troops from Korea; the funding for those slots can be diverted into homeland security along the border to stop drug smuggling, or for more domestic policing in the big cities. This will eliminate much of the motivation for armed robberry, such as was attempted in this case.
Then we will be able to take pride in being more like low-crime Korea.
As someone with no experience with guns, I would have just handed them the cash, but its good to hear that Mr. Lee gave the scum their just rewards. If more and more such victims were to blow the heads off of criminals, hopefully the result would be fewer criminals rather than better armed ones.
But as I was pointing out to a friend from LA, home invasions have been on the increase in Canada. He said that they aren’t common in LA because few criminals are stupid enough to try it with many people having guns at home and if they do, their life (of crime) is soon over.
Richardson wrote:
“I call BS. The criminals who walked into his store with firearms initiated the incident. One got what he deserved, the other a bit less so. The law agrees, which is why it’s called self-defense.”
Don’t misunderstand. I have no sympathy for the criminals, who did indeed put everyone in the restaurant in jeopardy by walking in pointing guns. Most criminals, however, do not shoot during a robbery unless someone resists. According to the news reports, the first gunman fired after Lee drew his weapon. Even if Lee is a good shot, his actions were still risky. One of the robbers managed to fire a shot before Lee could, and Lee and his family are fortunate the robber missed.
Seoulout wrote:
“Let’s see, 2 guys walk in w/ firearms, threaten to use them, and Mr. Lee initiated it? That’s a heck of an analysis, Sonagi.”
Lee did not initiate the incident. He initiated the gun battle. The robber did not fire until Lee drew his gun. I’m not blaming Lee as a bad guy. I’m saying he took a huge risk.
Not necessarily. There had been a rash of hold ups in the area where the robbers still shot the clerks even when the clerks cooperated fully, for no reason. TV news reports prior to this case, showed taped videos of business owners getting shot after they gave the robbers the money. I bet Lee feared that this was going to be one of those cases and didn’t want to take a chance. I say go for it if you know how to use it.
The guy deserves an award for adding some chlorine to the gene pool. Muchas gracias!
@ Sonagi. Gun battles are initiated when guns are brought. That Mr. Lee got off the first shot is due to the robbers’ mistake when they both paid more attention to the register. His skillful shooting shows me that he was well trained. That he waited for an appropriate opportunity to strike shows a steely demeanor and sound judgment. There was risk, and Mr. Lee neutralized it.
The robbers initiated the shooting by brandishing firearms in Lee’s store. If they’d done so outside on the street, off Lee’s property, it’d be a different story. But by coming into his store with pistols out, they initiated the action. This is similar to law enforcement; cops can’t just shoot someone, but if a suspect points a weapon at the cop (or another person, I believe), that person has just initiated themselves getting shot for cause. Same principle – and law – applies with this self-defense case.
I can’t help but cringe when i read some of the comments - especially the infantile “he should get an award!” and “lets name a street after him” garbage. Glad I come from a society where death - no matter how deserved - is viewed with a little more dignity and sobriety.
I won’t even bother mentioning my thoughts on gun-laws.
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@ JK, if it wasn’t for the attempt at humor, that comment above, #28, is almost insulting. To suggest that western expats are so myopic that American robbers = good and Korean merchants = bad says a lot. Projection? As seen by the comments on topics about legitimate wrong doing (joyriding, rape, storming into cop shops) the western expats, regardless of their national origin and allegiance, have called a spade a spade. I don’t think the same could be said of a particular groups of commenters, ex. the strong defense of Prof. Rhie.
Strikes me as a personal attack.
If what cm says is true, then I understand why Lee took the risk. I agree from the get-go that Lee acted in self-defense. Even if the first gunman had shot Lee, his wife, or someone else, Lee would not be responsible. I simply questioned whether it was the safest decision, but after reading what cm wrote, I can see that Lee operates a business in a very rough neighborhood and Lee probably felt people’s lives were in danger.
My own experience being held up was different. The gunman was very businesslike and demanded the money very calmly. I did not feel afraid for my life despite the fact that a gun was pointed inches from my ribcage.
#46 Hoju_saram: “…I can’t help but cringe when i read some of the comments…Glad I come from a society where death - no matter how deserved - is viewed with a little more dignity and sobriety…
I won’t even bother mentioning my thoughts on gun-laws.”
What society is that, hoju_saram? Being a naturally violent American, I find I’m always inclined to yank out my “debate” handgun and try to “stick up” a morally superior “citizen of the world”, whenever I encounter one.
Class envy and all that. But first — I gotta see the whites of your eyes.
Blast me first, if you can! Afterwards you’ll have yet another opportunity to sneer — I reckon you’ll find that irresistable.
#46 Sonagi: “….My own experience being held up was different. The gunman was very businesslike and demanded the money very calmly. I did not feel afraid for my life despite the fact that a gun was pointed inches from my ribcage.”
You were one twitch of the trigger finger away from oblivion, Sonagi. Doesn’t that make you even a little mad, in retrospect?
I presume your Irish ancestors weren’t willing to tolerate such a status, which is why this country (the US) got settled by the kind of people it did. Mr Lee is that kind of a person also; he may be “purely” Korean in ethnicity, but ideologically I say he’s now “purely” American.
To the admiration of some here, and the horror of others.
And I’m not criticizing you — at all. You made the “right” decision for your circumstances — every one of these situations is going to be different and only the “man on the spot” can be the judge of what to do.
I wager you were an employee (rather than an owner); probably of a franchise or a chain, which provided you with very strict instructions as to what to do during a hold-up. And also which absolutely forbade its employees to keep guns on the premises for defense.
Also, I think you as a female are automatically less psychologically threatening to the “average” armed robber.
You were able to see the gunman’s demeanor, and to make a judgement that he was “more or less” rational — at least, as far as armed robbery can be said to be a rational act.
But we aren’t in a position to judge what Mr. Lee thought he saw, and in his case his own livelihood and the lives of his family were at total risk.
But, let’s take the comparison one step further — into the hypothetical. In your robbery situation, what would you have felt (and what would you have done) had the gunman taken the money and then (instead of just leaving) ordered you to kneel on the floor, facing away from him, while he tied up your hands behind you?
Perhpas you would have obeyed, in hopes that all the gunman wanted was to improve his chances of getting away.
I honestly don’t know what I would do, in a similar situation to this “hypothetical” one. I think I might grab a can or a hard object and try to brain the guy, rather than kneeling for possible execution.
I do know that I would want to have a gun available — as I’m sure I would go for it if it looked like I was going to be executed, no matter how hopeless the chances seemed.
So I’d have a hard decision to make, if I desperately needed a job as a convenience store clerk, working alone late at night. And it was a chain or franchise that forbade the keeping of guns by its employees and insisted on strict instructions to always hand over the money and submit to the bandit.
I’m lucky that I’m not in that situation, so I’m damn sure not inclined to judge others who are (unlike some of the other commentors here).
I find it wryly amusing that the only remaining “original sin” recognized these days is being “judgmental” — except of course for the fact that we Americans aren’t allowed even that one any more.
that neighborhood is dog-eat-dog, and i respect a man working to take back the streets and protect his family.
It’s a no win situation for him, I’m afraid. I’m willing to consider that the robbers got what they deserved…but, I fear that this incident could make him a bigger target now.
I agree.
It is not only the lack of easy access to firearms, but the difference in mentality. Koreans just do not become the sort of hardcore thugs of the type shot by Mr. Lee. Lack of those types is a distinct lifestyle advantage Korea offers over urban America.
It’s a no win situation for him, I’m afraid. I’m willing to consider that the robbers got what they deserved…but, I fear that this incident could make him a bigger target now.
I disagree. I think the thugs will avoid Jason Lee. One thing must be acknowledged about the strong arm robber, he is a coward behind his gun. G-d bless Jason Lee, he is a good American.
Paul, not sneering, cringing. If my comment came off as condescending, it wasn’t meant to. I don’t have a problem with people defending Lee’s right to lethal self defence (if that happens to the law of the land). My gripe is the gung-ho attitude towards it which you can read wherever this story is being discussed. Since you asked, I come from Australia. Australia can be a violent place, but fatal shootings are few and far between, particularly since the government passed serious firearm laws not long back.
I do not know about Australia, but Americans who have lived in urban areas are familiar with these types of violent crimes and the criminals who perpetrate them.
Make no mistake: Cornell Toombs was no Jean Valjean.
Anyway, without belaboring the point, valid reasons exist for the gung-ho attitude you gripe about.
I wonder if firearm control legislation in Australia has had an effect on violent crime:
“The Australian government made sweeping changes to the firearms legislation in 1997. However, the total homicide rate, after having remained basically flat from 1995 to 2001, has now begun climbing again. While violent crime is decreasing in the United States, it is increasing in Australia. Over the past six years, the overall rate of violent crime in Australia has been on the rise – for example, armed robberies have jumped 166 percent nationwide.”
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/.....entRev.pdf
Dogbertt, notice that the fraser institute doesn’t once mention guns in its analysis? “total homicide rate” “violent crime” “overal rate of crime” and even “armed robberies” need have nothing to do with guns.
From the AIC: “Less than one in five Australian armed robberies involve a firearm.”
More importantly, in the year following the gun-laws,
“Although armed robberies increased by nearly 20%, the number of armed robberies involving a firearm decreased to a six-year low.”
– Recorded Crime, Australia, 1998. Australian Bureau of Statistics, Jun 1999
Again:
“There was a decrease of almost 30% in the number of homicides by firearms from 1997 to 1998.”
– Australian Crime - Facts and Figures 1999. Australian Institute of Criminology. Canberra, Oct 1999
“We have observed a decline in firearm-related death rates (essentially in firearm-related suicides) in most jurisdictions in Australia. We have also seen a declining trend in the percentage of robberies involving the use of firearms in Australia.”
– Mouzos, J. Firearm-related Violence: The Impact of the Nationwide Agreement on Firearms. Trends & Issues in Crime & Criminal Justice No. 116. Australian Institute of Criminology. Canberra, May 1999; 6
There is a whole bunch more. Basicaly, crimes involving guns dropped after the buy-back scheme. Overal violence has been on the increase more recently, but its harder to draw a correlation to guns on that count, since most don’t involve them.
I might also point out that tougher gun-laws in the UK and Canada also had strong positive effects.
Of course, you could argue that crims simply swap a gun for a knife and go ahead with the robberies anyway, but I know what I’d rather be facing in a hold-up.
Doesn’t seem to make much difference. Your violent crime levels are still rising despite firearm control.