Now, I usually like what JP over at Japundit writes, but I have to say, I was a bit surprised to hear this during his last podcast (which, as I’ve pointed out, are outstanding—join it now if you haven’t already):
Excuse me, but until I read this report I had a lot of sympathy for the cause of comfort women. But if you look at the site of the Asian Women’s Fund, you will see that it deals with the misdeeds of the Japanese military in a very straightforward manner, admits guilt, and apologizes for it. As reported above, former comfort women are also eligible to receive compensation, which many of them are rejecting. If all of this is true, it would appear that the comfort women organizations are more intent upon embarrassing Japan than in bringing the matter to any type of settlement.
Well, JP, if you’re looking for why most comfort women have rejected compensation from the Asian Women’s Fund—which is funded by private, not government donations—in favor of continued demands for state compensation and an official apology, this is why:
Japan’s nationalist prime minister denied Thursday that the country’s military forced women into sexual slavery during World War II, casting doubt on a past government apology and jeopardizing a fragile detente with his Asian neighbors.
The comments by Shinzo Abe, a member of a group of lawmakers pushing to roll back a 1993 apology to the sex slaves, were his clearest statement as prime minister on military brothels known in Japan as “comfort stations.”
Historians say some 200,000 women — mostly from Korea and China — served in the Japanese military brothels throughout Asia in the 1930s and 1940s. Many victims say they were kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery by Japanese troops.
But Abe, who since taking office in September has promoted patriotism in Japan’s schools and a more assertive foreign policy, told reporters there was no proof the women were forced into prostitution.
“The fact is, there is no evidence to prove there was coercion,” Abe said.
His remarks contradicted evidence in Japanese documents unearthed in 1992 that historians said showed military authorities had a direct role in working with contractors to forcibly procure women for the brothels.
And this doesn’t help matters, either:
Nariaki Nakayama, chairman of the group of about 120 lawmakers, sought to play down the government’s involvement in the brothels by saying it was similar to a school that hires a company to run its cafeteria.
“Some say it is useful to compare the brothels to college cafeterias run by private companies, who recruit their own staff, procure foodstuffs, and set prices,” he said.
“Where there’s demand, businesses crop up … but to say women were forced by the Japanese military into service is off the mark,” he said. “This issue must be reconsidered, based on truth … for the sake of Japanese honor.”
Christ, could that have come off as any more callous? I mean, it’s one thing to argue that the Treaty on Basic Relations between Japan and the Republic of Korea put compensation claims to rest. Abe and Nakayama, however, are going beyond that—they are arguing that the women were either prostitutes or that even if they were forced into prostitution, the Japanese military was not to blame.
108 Comments
A blunder of incredible magnitude by PM Abe.
A bit of caution. It is still not clear what Abe exactly said. Reading some Japanese news site, it seems that he said there are NO EVIDENCE that the military kidnapped women (which is right), it seems that he didn’t said “there are no evidence that their were forced to prostitute”.
As for the number, 200,000korean comfort women is a joke. Everybody with a little knowledge of Japanese Military history knows that.
I wonder why there isn’t better evidence of this–I’m not trolling, I’m really curious. Were all the records destroyed? Doesn’t the U.S. have anything in its archives? This is one area I haven’t read up on much in Korean history.
Where’s the news?
what is it then, tomojiro?
The number. The real number.
Please educate us. Are the lying Koreans and Chinese putting the wrong numbers into the heads of the Europeans and Americans?
I don’t think Abe was as offensive as Nakayama. No surprise. Defend what honor? Personal family honor, of course.
Who is Abe’s father? Who are Abe’s grandfathers?
What is the LDP? There’s your answer.
Japan is getting strong again. Things are looking great. Deny wrong doings during wars, renew anti-semitic publications, what’s next?
So similar to late 80’s.
What is the truth? Did they lie after 1945 until mid 1990s? Did they tell the truth in the 90s or were they lying to themselves? (comfort women, unit 731, etc) Now, in the later 2000s, back to the truth? Because Japan is strong once again? Dangerous country. Dangerous thinking.
When will it be the right time to announce that Unit 731 was not that bad? When Toyota rules and GM, Chrysler, and Ford go bankrupt?
Yeah, Robert… I flinched when I saw this.
Some serious backtracking coming up on this weekend’s podcast…
JP
Meanwhile, Korean women are being forced into prostitution right now in China: http://freekorea.us/?p=6593
But you won’t hear the S.K. Human Rights [sic] Commission or Roh say a word about it and Ban will not address it in the U.N.
michael—True enough, but two wrongs don’t make a right.
And, also, one one who is morally wrong accusing another who is morally wrong is not right, as well.
wjk wrote:
What exactly are you saying here?
WJK (or Robert) what was the estimated size of the population by the end of the colonial period in 1945?
I get the feeling Abe is scrambling. He got elected on a right wing platform but many feel that he was full of empty promises. His approval rating is falling fast so I think he feels he has to stop the bleeding.
You’ve got journalists being fire-bombed for criticizing the neo-militarists and people applauding this sort of terrorist censurship. Right now there are some scary things brewing across the Sea of Peace.
To be fair, there is a fair number of rational humans over there but you get the feeling they’re afraid to speak up also.
I’m not implying “two wrongs,” I’m saying that the same Roh Moo-hyun who goes on and on about Japan’s 60-year-old failings has an obligation written into the Korean constitution to speak up about N.K. women being trafficked today in China. And ditto for the S.K. HR Commission. Maybe it isn’t fair to slam Ban, who is new on the job, so we’ll see if he ever brings this up.
But I think we all know the S.K. gov’t has no spine when it comes to China.
You see more diversity on this side of the Sea of Peace?
here’s the ap link.
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060.....nbc00.html
I think the mainichi is called the wah-wah, and discredited for its stories for some reason I do not understand.
Can’t discredit the ap, right?
wjk wrote:
So, you are saying because this Alex Yorichi was an ethnic Japanese soldier fighting in the U.S. Army _against_ the Axis powers (including Japan), he was biased _in favor_ of Japan because of his ethnicity?
That might be so, although I seem to recall from John Downer’s Embracing Defeat that the Japanese set up what amounted to comfort stations for American troops at the very beginning of the occupation—the belief being that it was necessary for some of Japan’s daughters to make the ultimate sacrifice to save the rest of the country’s wives and daughters from the horrors of occupation. I don’t believe the book said they were “coerced,” however.
Well, 200,000 Korean comfort women would be an exaggeration. I believe most estimates put the total number of comfort women at 100,000-200,000, with Koreans making up the majority.
Still, kind of unsightly to be bickering about exact numbers, given the vast and terrible nature of what happened.
Robert, there is a misquote here, I think. I have one Japanese news site with a direct quote, and I am looking for another to confirm it.
Perhaps bad translation is better than “misquote”.
dogbertt, let’s revisit that incident. One nurse came out. One nurse. Out of all the people involved. Just one mouth opened.
That’s quite impressive.
Applaudable, in fact.
That’s a better than 99% keep-your-mouth-shut rate.
Alex Yorichi is honored as a war veteran in the US, but he is of the same tradition. In fact, he was probably chosen to interrogate since he had full capability in conversing in Japanese.
Why is there only one report?
Did he talk to the girls only or did he also talk to the Japanese POWs?
Gasp ! Do you think he took the Japanese mens’ words over the girls?
Saving face is not a foreign tradition in the part of the world you are sitting in, Dogbertt.
When it comes to “no spine with China” why pick on a small country. There are not many who can stand up to China and certainly the US is one of the biggest example of this. They are too scared that China might call in their IOUs.
We know that documents have been destroyed before the end of the WWII. The japanese historian Yoshiaki Yoshimi had pointed this out and had found some documents that were scheduled to be destroyed which helped him unearth information about the history of the comfort women. Without his independant study the Japanese government would have denied the existance of comfort women.
Abe also has a history of trying to muffle information about the comfort women. In 2006 he tried to pressure NHK to cancel a special on comfort women. NHK wound up watering down the special instead and got fined for it.
Haisan
20,000(hata ikuhiko), 50,000 to 200,000(Yoshimi).
20% according to Hata were Koreans. 40to50% is Yoshimi and Hayashi’s numbers.
Haisan numbers matters.
If 200,000 is right that means that almost 1% of their whole population became sex slaves.And they are saying that most of them were kidnapped, isn’t it? By the Japanese military, hunting down the street,isn’t it?
Believe me, numbers matters.
Why did this not became a great problem between Japan and Korea until
the late 80ies, after a controversial book was published in Japan? When the Book was translated into Korean, the Korean press reacted very negativly,I believe.
If you read essays like this (sorry it’s in Japanese),
http://www.awf.or.jp/program/pdf/p061_088.pdf
It is clear that what to the comfort women happened was realy a tragic, and that the Japanese military must take responsibilities.
Therefore, I strongly oppose what Nakayama says.
what’s the chance that all the men involved with comfort women are dead?
Very, very, very low.
Japan boasts one of the longest lifespans for men and women in the world. I think they are close to #1 in longetivity. If not the #1.
Why so few mouths being open and lots of mouths saying they were prostitutes?
Amazing and somewhat applaudable solidarity and saving of face.
Lt. Okamoto and Chun Doo Hwan weren’t exactly angels.
They didn’t want the public to know about the treaty between Japan and South Korea. Some got to find out roughly what it was. Lee Myung Bak was one of them. Lt. Okamoto jailed him for leading a student protest. They didn’t want to pay individuals, either. They had their own goals, and trade and relations with Japan was important. And objectively, it was and is and will be very important.
In the process, they filtered what would strain relations with Japan.
My private belief is Lt. Okamoto had plenty of comfort women experiences himself as Lt. of the Japanese Imperial Army in Manchuria. People best shut up, at least while he was getting drunk, wearing a kimono, weilding a samurai sword and asking girls to sing in Japanese for him.
No, no decent historian is saying most of the comfort women were directly kidnapped by the Japanese military. Coersion takes (and took) many different forms. But 20,000 vs. 100,000 is an argument for academics, imho. Regardless, it was still a pretty shitty thing to do in a pretty shitty era. Since the Japanese government of the day was running the show, that is ultimately where responsibility lies (as then Prime minister Kiichi Miyazawa indicated in his 1993 apology).
Ironically enough, Foreign Affairs magazine just ran an article lauding the rise of Japan and mentioning Abe’s focus on foreign policy over domestic issues, particularly economics. They gave him great credit for refusing to visit Yakusuni, unlike his predecessor Koizumi, and visiting both Korea and China within the first weeks of taking office.
I find it hard to believe that he and his advisors would be so tin-eared as to mend fences with China and Korea over the shrine and then screw the pooch over related war history issues that are just as highly charged.
Morrow– “When it comes to “no spine with China” why pick on a small country. There are not many who can stand up to China” is rather disengenuous when you consider that the “shrimp” Korea routinely “stands up” against the world’s first- and second-largest nations, the U.S. and Japan.
Roh certainly seems to be able to puff up his chest to take on Abe and tell Bush he won’t “kowtow” to the U.S., but stays silent about human rights abuses by two of the world’s most anti-democratic nations, China and N.K. No spine. It discredits the S.K. gov’t when it addresses other nation’s failings.
The insinuation just kills me…
michael’s right. South Korea shows no spine with China. Roh thinks Mao’s a great person. Someone he looks up to. Weird, but he also looks up to Lincoln.
Like Michael said, Roh has no problem standing up to Japan and the US. Very selective. That’s why he is accused of being a borderline commy. I swear the CIA thinks so, too.
Of course I’m not saying Roh shouldn’t address his country’s issues, only that his moral authority as it were would be higher if he took issue with China’s treatment of N. Koreans. And it doesn’t let Abe off the hook either. Regardless of the specific wording, he seems callous.
Perhaps not as weird as you might think… (see also here)
No need to thank me for that little stroll down Cold War Lane.
Haisan
“No, no decent historian is saying most of the comfort women were directly kidnapped by the Japanese military.”
These historian you are mentioning are they Japanese, Korean or American?
I have pretty much read Japanese historiography about this issue, but have no knowledge about korean historian.
Do you have any to recommend?
Thanks in advance.
thank you for the link, Mr. Koehler. That’s very weird, too.
you know, ampotan wrote about yasukuni’s decision to revise what it writes about ww2. however, ampotan failed to metion that the revision will primarily focus on those aspects that anger americans and not koreans or chinese.
it takes two to tango and it looks like japan is going to dance that sorry dance with the koreans. i think both the japanese and koreans really need to move past this. they need to work together against the chinese who are going to be a menace to the free world.
btw, because i know this thread will be more read than the thread i posted the following on, i hope marmot will not mind:
‘amerasian kid with korean mother and white father just about to graduate from harvard found out he has a rare form of leukemia. he will need a bone marrow transplant but because of his race, he’s finding it hard to find a match. many of your readers have Amerasian children and they may want to help…’
won’t you guys take a look? only requires a swab. your son or daughter could be the one who can save this young man’s life.
http://www.samiam.com
the boy is just too young. i am doing what i can for him.
OH MY LORD! it’s not the above website. it’s this one:
http://www.helpsamiam.com
please have a look.
I still see American texts using Yoshida Seiji as a source, including George Hicks’ The Comfort Women: Japan’s Brutal Regime of Enforced Prostitution as does, I believe, Yuki Tanaka’s Japan’s Comfort Women: Sexual Slavery & Prostitution during World War II & the US Occupation.
Some of you guys may have already seen know of her, but I found Sarah Soh’s work on this issue to be pretty enlightening, in particular, this piece which was published in Pacific Affairs.
Good for him, then.
Here are some articles about the young man nulji’s posted about:
http://www.ivyleaguesports.com.....intID=5752
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=516860
Pawikirogi I hope your luck.
I have sent the link to some Japanese I know who live in the states.
Best
Pawi,
my wife and I haven’t got any children yet - otherwise we would definitely be willing to help.
Sorry about my snoddy remark above - I realise that it was not appropriate in this very serious context.
It seems that the english media misquoted PM Abe’s comment.
He was asked on march first what he thinks about the movement of some politician inside the LDP to reconsider the Kono Statement.
NYT did another sensationalist job, I think.
James at Japan Probe nails it down.
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=1259
I have also written what in the Yomiuri shinbun was described.
http://japundit.com/archives/2...../#comments
Remember Koreans only started to kick up a fuss about “comfort women” in the 90s. It was not such an issue for a long time after the end of WWII. What caused this issue is the book published in 1980’s. In the book, the author, Seiji Yoshida, claimed he had abducted Korean women and forced them to work as prostitute. A Japanese newspaper Asahi Shimbun reported
his story as a fact. However Yoshida confessed that the book was fiction after many people had mentioned errors in it. And now even Yoshiaki Yoshimi does not claim the military abducted women.
Japanese government admits that the military involved in establishment and maintenance of the brothels, just as there were American Military-Base Prostitution and Korean military-Base Prostitution.
http://www.wm.edu/so/monitor/spring2000/paper6.htm
Its a misquote/mistranslation. I have it nailed on my blog.
Maybe I am not understanding something, but this seemed like more than just a mistranslation.
The Kono Statement read:
> The then Japanese military was, directly or
> indirectly, involved in the establishment and
> management of the comfort stations and the
> transfer of comfort women.
I do not see how the original apology was about the “narrow” definition of coercion. Seems to me that the original statement was about the broad definition.
Also, wasn’t Abe’s statement in the context of the 120 LDP members who want to overturn the 1993 statement?
Also (2), plenty of news stories have used the proper translation:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....efer=japan
But if I am missing something, please fill me in.
“Also (2), plenty of news stories have used the proper translation:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....&refer =japan”
That was posted by Bloomberg only 6 hours ago, and has been updated since then. Who wants to bet it was the translation that was updated?
“But if I am missing something, please fill me in.”
Do not get me wrong. There are still people that will be displeased by this, but basically what Abe is doing is reiterating the official Japanese government position.
I should add that I wrote the correct translation more than 10 hours ago, and there definitely was not a correct translation available at that time.
Is it possible that someone got to these Yoshida and Yoshimi characters. I mean maybe, “We’ll burn your house down just for starters if you don’t ammend your story”? I’m not saying it happened but I don’t believe it to be far-fetched either.
Hm. I actually have helped in my own very small way in the effort here in Washington to get this issue on the floor of the House. And it is moving along nicely.
People like the writer at Japundit and the blog owner of partial Australian and Japanese ancestry make the fight easier for us with their views. It makes the crazy views of the Japanese right-wingers in Tokyo appear to be even more visible to the world, which only helps our cause with fellow Americans here to get their support on this issue.
BTW, this news is getting some serious coverage in the Washington Post. In the Express version of the Post, we have an 87 year-old Japanese soldier who “remembers the screams of the countless women he raped in China as a soldier in the Japanese imperial army in WWII…..Some were teenagers from Korea serving as sex slaves in military-run brothels. Others were women in villages he and his comrades pillaged in eastern China.
“‘They cried out, but it didn’t matter to us whether the women lived or died,’ Kaneko said in an interview at his Tokyo home. ‘We were the emperor’s soldiers. Whether in military brothels or in the villages, we raped without reluctance.’” (Source: March 2, 2007 issue of Express, a publication of the Washington Post)
They also interviewed a Korean comfort woman in the article, who was 14 when she was kidnapped out of her home by Japanese soldiers and then forced to serve Japanese soldiers in Taiwan.
BTW, Robert Koehler, I got a random email yesterday mentioning you in a critical manner (for putting links to the two hate sites on your blog). I didn’t know whether to take it seriously at first….until I saw through the prank and saw that a few minutes beforehand on my blog stalker tracer that….a few people from Japan and Australia had gone to my blog and tried to see my photoblogs (thankfully on protected status because otherwise, we KNOW what blog they would have ended up on).
Considering the historical politics between Korea & Japan and Korea & US, Roh probably doesn’t want to kowtow to them. I’m not saying its right for a president to have different rulers for different countries but I know many Koreans who dislike Japan and America but admire and feel a kinship with China and therefore take a more lenient view towards them. In any case I thought your original post was in itself shifting the attention from what Robert K.’s blog was about.
As many know, there is deep hostility between Japanese and Koreans esp with the older generation who remembers the occupation and having Abe and Japanese politicians who are on a nationalistic march–revising history and making comments publicly like this doesn’t improve relations but sets it back to pre 1993 climate. In my view I would love for the two countries to get along and work as economic allies. I thought Abe’s initial visit to China and Korea was a good sign of things to come. Unfortunately his stock is falling in Japan and he needs to either shift attention away for that or follow more of the party line to be viewed favorably.
tomojiro’s % population is a bit flawed.
the comfort women are ‘drafted’ over a period of time, 8+ years. the population based is not a snapshot population of korea.
at any point of time, the total number may be only a portion of the total #. (eg if each were drafted for 2 years, over the 8 years, we need to use 1/4 of the total for a time snapshot).
i used 8 years, because that is when japan went into war in larger scale (invaded china in 1937 till 1945) — the soldiers deployed were already more than half of that eventually deployed post-1941
That doesn’t surprise me.
These b.s. resolutions are nothing more than identity politics.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....sex_slaves
The bottom line is that there is no documental evidence indicating that Japanese government or military were directly involved with capturing women to make them “Sexual slaves”. There are, on the otherhand, records of advertisements on newspapers recruiting the women with pay info.
How that will be explained in the congressional hearing in terms of slavery will be interesting.
As in Nanjing Incident, I think that, people tend to go for the emotional argument that because there are testimonies made by women claiming to be victims, everything they say must be true. They may be saying what they believe, but nothing should be one-sided. Historical evidence should also be researched.
Also, some said the lack of evidence is due to documents being destroyed, but as the advertisement shows, the Japanese government thought what they were doing was right and proper (I mean, they had thousands of Korean soldiers, as well. You can only abuse the families of your soldiers so far before there is a riot). Why they would go out of their way to destroy document regarding something they considered legal is beyond me.
And I believe there were also interviews done by the U.S. military in regards to these comfort women at the end of the war and found them to be prostitutes. Ref one of Matt’s article at Occidentalism.
from the chosun comment section…
You say Korean women responded to ads to sell themselves, because they were dirt poor and had nothing else to do.
Why were they so dirt poor?
Wasn’t the Empire of Japan a tremendous blessing presence for modernization and improvement of living standards in Korea?
Comfort women exist in Korea today. In the camp towns outside the US and Korean military bases in Korea, There are women who are abused by their pimps, yet the US military personnel who have sex with the women most
likely do not know they are enslaved or abused. While the Japanese Army has some responsibility for having a system that was open to abuse, it is no different to what is happening now in Korea. If Koreans don’t give a damn about women who are abused today, why should anyone believe that Koreans cared about“comfort women”during WWII. Remember this issue became a problem after almost 50 years after the end of WWII.
wjk,
Just one? There must be a name for that riot. Care to give?
Now, you say the ads were just formalities, but then again, are you telling me that Korean pimps were forced by the Japanese military? What proof have you.
>US report. One, right? By one Nisei US soldier. More, please?
You miss the point. What other US report taken after the war says contrary?
genie201, what you say is just a detraction. Maybe a coincidence, but most Japanese people like to say there are comfort women in China, North Korea, South Korea, Los Angeles, New York, but somehow missout comfort women in modern day Japan. Why do you guys always somehow fail to count the ones in Korean communities inside Japan?
Would you call Chinese and Thai farmer’s daughters who were lured into “factory city jobs” and turned over to sex slave masters comfort women?
Ah! They have to be Korean to be comfort women.
What do these women have to do with Japan’s use of comfort women? Are these women tied to military, being seen by military doctors?
Ah ! The Imperial Japanese Army sent their military doctors to “care” for these comfort women. Do you deny it?
Why? It sure hell isn’t being done in China, South Korea, North Korea, or any army these days.
Gee, I wonder why Japanese military docs were caring for civilian brothel houses. They must have been providing humanitarian aid…
Shadkt, I only came across one US report written by a Nissei, which happens to fit exactly with LDP Japan’s 50 year stance. I just asked if you know of anything more.
genie201
It’s different. At least in the Japanese case the army requested directly to civilian brothel owners and mediators to gather women as comfort women.
Ex-prime Nakasone braged about that while he was in charge of his unit as a lieutenant back in China, that among his unit that there was very little rape against chinese civilian. He said that was because he directly requested some brothel owners and pimps to gather comfort women and make a comfort station(慰安所）.
As you know, the Japanese comfort women system expandet rapidly after the Japanese army was advancing toward Nanking from Shanghai. During this campaign, Japanese soldiers began to looting, raping and murdering many civilians. The Japanese generals became horrified by the act of their own soldiers and urged civilian brothel owners and mediator to make a lot of comfort places. I don’t believe that Japanese army did directly kidnapped or coercly abducted women from Japan or Korea and china, but this urgence created many tragedies, as it seems that there were many cases that young women believed that there were simply going work in some hotels and restaurants, but found up that there were forced to become prostitute.
There is a difference between prostitutes around US army camp.
how do you think all those ilbos came to exist in Korea?
They came to be after 1919.
On the pretext of freedom of speech, education of the masses, more power to Koreans. They allowed Korean newspapers.
Chosun, Joong-Ang, Dong-A. Now all accused of having played the role fo propaganda machines for the Japanese military government. Getting all articles approved by them and encouraging the men and women to go be a foot soldier or have sex with one on the front lines.
Forgeddabouddit!
It may or may not have happened more than fifty years ago. It is time to move on!
Korea and Japan have common enemies, North Korea and China. Either two countries support each other or kill each other off. And, if two countries fight, who will benefit? NK and China.
So, shut the fuck up about this subject and forgeddabouddit! Let’s think about the future rather than the past.
pawikirogi “dear genie in japan, could you tell me what the difference is between korea’s massive prostitution industry and japan’s massive prostitution industry?”
Korean brokers smuggle Korean women illegally into foreign countries and sell them to brothels. Why are there so many Korean women being forced into prostitution now, when South Korea’s economy is doing much better than it ever has since WWII?
Korean Prostitutes Threaten Visa Waiver
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....80030.html
“Michael Kirby told reporters Thursday it does not help Korea’s efforts for a visa waiver if Korean women are uncovered every time there is a prostitution bust in the U.S. Kirby said apart from decreasing the percentage of visa refusals, Korea must also cooperate in a system of joint law enforcement and ensure that Americans have a good impression of Koreans.
Kirby said on one occasion last year 100 Korean women were arrested on prostitution charges in a single day in Los Angeles and San Francisco. Korean women were also held in Connecticut, New York and Huston this year, he said, with Korean women forming a bigger part of the prostitution problem in the U.S, than those of any other nationality during the last one to two years.
The consul said many of the women are smuggled into the U.S. via Canada or Mexico, and some of them enter the country on forged visas. Korean women pay between US$15,000 and 20,000 to traffickers and often see no option except prostitution to pay them off, he added.”
genie201, South Korea has a large income disparity with no social safety net.
Would you say people in Thailand, India, China, and Africa just love sex, so these women go all out and decide just to have a job having sex, because it doesn’t require skills or thinking?
These Korean women aren’t going to poor countries. They only go to rich countries with places where there are more than 100k Koreans around.
CIA factbook says Taiwan used to be a huge supplier of sexworkers to Japan. Why do you think it was so? Because Taiwan’s women love sex?
Japanese women would be traveling a lot out of the domestic market if Japan had a huge income gap. I bet they would.
Why are Russian women entering South Korea just to serve 3rd rate modeling jobs or even bar or sex jobs? I assure you it probably isn’t better sex.
“Abe on Thursday said there is no proof the women were forced into prostitution: ”The fact is, there is no evidence to prove there was coercion.””
Bad move.
Maybe we should have banned the Japanese language in Japan.
I just hope that what Mr. Abe has said doesn’t reflect what an average Japanese thinks about comfort women. At least my Japanese friends disagree with Mr. Abe.
As for people who say we should forget about the whole event it reminds me of a paragraph from Elie Wiesel’s Night:
“For the survivor who chooses to testify, it is clear: his duty is to bear witness for the dead and the living. He has no right to deprive future generations of a past that belongs to our collective memory. To forget would be not only dangerous but offensive; to forget the dead would be akin to killing them a second time.”
Let’s just hope that the REAL victims don’t get buried in Japan-Korea bashing fest.
Jesus Christ, one almost thinks you have to rape a white woman before anyone will take you seriously…
http://www.theage.com.au/news/.....81441.html
Abe is insane.
Facts are not as important as how we look at the facts. Maybe these women were forced. Maybe they wanted to make money. It depends on how you look at it. I prefer the second explaination, especially for Korean women sex slaves. Gisaeng was a popular occupation for Japanese occupation time.
Now don’t call me Jap-lover. If you have been reading my posts, you know me. I am a pragmatist.
Since this issue and Dokto can only harm Koreans, let’s just sweep it under the rug and forgeddaboutit. As the US leaves the peninsula, Japan may be the only friend that Korea has.
Either that or serving the Chinese masters. I prefer serving the Japanese. At least with the rich masters, you may not go hungry.
baduk, i disagree with u. if u look at the history, did korean starved when japanese ruled korea? im sure many koreans were hungry. did koreans starved when chinese ruled korea? not really… koreans were happy being chinese little brother/servant.
i think koreans should change their mentality. lets stop bitching bc japanese will never admit their guilt… it’s big waste of time. i think we should stop looking at our sad past. north koreans are curretnly suffering right now. where is our outrage? north koreans are hungry and being tortured. at least with south koreans, our suffering ended after korean war. however, north koreans suffering didnt stop since japanese colonization. lets do our best to end north korean’s suffering.
The title of the thread is “This is why the comfort women aren’t satisfied”
It seems they are not satisfied because the money does not come from the government.
But there might be other reasons why they are not satisfied..
“Many of the Korean victims, he says, were put under intense social pressures to refuse the Japanese donations, although they sorely needed that support.”
ttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4749467.stm
And ex-comfort women complain.
“1991년, 정부는 전국 읍면동에 공문을 보내 “위안부에 대해서는 비밀을 보장해 줄테니 창피해 하지 말고, 신고하라”는 취지의 공문을 보냈고, 이에 따라 신고자는 총 200명 정도였던 것으로 알려져 있다. 이들 중 지금 남아 있는 사람들은 125명 정도이며, 이 125명 중 진짜 “일본군위안부”라고 자기들끼리 확인한 노인들은 33명이다. 이 모임은 약칭 “무궁화회 할머니회”로 불린다. 이 할머니 대표가 바로 일본 대법원에서 진짜로 확인된 ´심미자´(82세) 할머니이며, 2005.4.13. 오전과 오후에 걸쳐, 필자가 여러 시간에 걸쳐 인터뷰를 했다.
이 곳은 관광하러 한국에 온 일본인들의 관광 코스로 되어 있고, 국내외로부터 성금이 답지된다고 한다. 먼저 나눔의 집을 지어달라 호소했던 할머니들은 운영자측에 대해 많은 불만이 있어 나갔고, 현재 홈페이지에는 10명의 위안부 얼굴들이 나타나 있지만 이들 중 약 5명 정도는 중국에서 온 할머니들이라 한다. 이 중국 할머니들 중 몇 명씩이 하루에 3만원을 받고 수요일 일본대사관 앞 집회에 나간다고 할머니는 말한다
인터뷰에서 심 할머니가 거론한 두가지 큰 불만사항은 두가지.
위안부봉사단체인 두 기관들은 위안부를 이용하여 국내외로부터 모금도 하고, 자신들의 명예를 올리기 위해 일하며, 모금한 돈을 나누어 주지도 않는다.
2) 몇 명 안 되는 할머니들을 앵벌이로 삼아 국제 망신을 시키고 다닌다. 우리는 돈을 바라지 않는다. 우리가 바라는 것은 명예다. 우리를 이용하여 국제 모금을 하는 것은 우리를 두 번 모욕 주는 행위다.
또 우리 정부와 시민단체 등이 툭하면 위안부 할머니들을 내세워 일본을 비판하고 일본에게 배상할 것을 요구하고 있으나 정작 정부와 시민단체 등이 위안부할머니에게 해준 일이 별로 없다고 지적하고 오히려 일본인들이 위안부 할머니들의 건강과 소송문제, 또 장례식 등까지 세세한 부분에 대해 지속적인 관심과 보살핌을 펴왔음을 역설적으로 전했다
이와 관련 2004년 위안부 할머니중 한명인 박봉순할머니가 사망했을 때 장례식장에 한국인은 거의 없고 일본인들이 몇명 모여서 장례를 치뤘는데 화장비도 일본인들이 내고 유골을 운반할 때도 무궁화회 회장인 심미자 할머니가 먼길을 걸으면서 홀로 운반해야 했다는 가슴 아픈 일화를 소개했다. 봉사단체 관계자는 보이지 않았다면서 위안부봉사단체의 허구성을 통열히 비판했다.
언론이나 TV에 나오는 할머니중 일부는 일본에서는 진짜가 아니라고 본다면서 이로 인해 한국이 불신을 받고 국제적인 망신을 당할 우려가 있음도 지적했다.”(지만원)
.
As for Dutch women,
Two cents summarised nicely.
“The man executed as the war criminal for the charge was Yoshiharu Okada. (Maybe Keiji Okada, I’m not sure how to read the kanji.) He was found guilty for kidnapping, forcing prostitution, and rape of Dutch women at Semarang and executed by the Dutch.”……” The facility was closed down after the General Staff Yamamoto hears that the women were taken by force. “…….”
ttp://www.occidentalism.org/?p=309#comment-6861
As for O’Herne, if the story is true, that was a horrible crime.
She said,
“more than half a century after her dignity was stripped from her, Mrs O’Herne is still waiting for an apology from Japan”
ttp://www.theage.com.au/news/world/australian-woman-seeks-apology-from-japan/2007/02/13/1171128974189.html
“Mrs Ruff-O’Herne said of Cardinal Shirayanagi’s apology, sent even though the Japanese Government still refuses to accept any responsibility: “This is a healing of wounds, a bridge of peace.”
…..
“Last night, however, Kayo Yoshida handed a painting by her artist sister, Mizuyo Kawabata, to Mrs Ruff-O’Herne. “It will hang in a place of honour in my home,” she said”
April 25 2003
ttp://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/24/1050777359432.html#top
But Koizumi had made an statement of apology and responsibility.
“The Year of 2001
Dear Madam,
On the occasion that the Asian Women’s Fund, in cooperation with the Government and the people of Japan, offers atonement from the Japanese people to the former wartime comfort women, I wish to express my feelings as well.
The issue of comfort women, with an involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time, was a grave affront to the honor and dignity of large numbers of women.
As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women….”
We must not evade the weight of the past, nor should we evade our responsibilities for the future.
I believe that our country, painfully aware of its moral responsibilities, with feelings of apology and remorse, should face up squarely to its past history and accurately convey it to future generations.”
ttp://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/pmletter.html
Asian woman’s fund was set up by the decision and th investment of the Japanese Government.
I find it a little hard what she really wants.
Does she want apology for her rape from PM individually?
Should American president apologize to each Japanese women raped by GI during the occupation? Is that what each head of the country are supposed to do?
BTW Alex Yorich investigation is about Korean comfort women in Burma in 1944.
ttp://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html
“A “comfort girl” is nothing more than a prostitute or “professional camp follower” attached to the Japanese Army for the benefit of the soldiers. The word “comfort girl” is peculiar to the Japanese. Other reports show the “comfort girls” have been found wherever it was necessary for the Japanese Army to fight. This report however deals only with the Korean “comfort girls” recruited by the Japanese and attached to their Army in Burma. The Japanese are reported to have shipped some 703 of these girls to Burma in 1942.”
It is a report of Korean comfort women collected soon after comfort women were captured. It is not a report on Dutch comfort women in Indonesia.
And it is not a report made more than fifty years later, like the book in which a Korean professor says,
“This book was begun in March 1992, when members of the society began speaking to about 40 former comfort women who had given their addresses and had indicated a willingness to be contacted. In the processo of recording testimonies, the number of women we decided to include here was narrowed down to 19. We eliminated those who were reluctant to talk about the details of their experiences, those whose stories contained inconsistencies and those who contradicted themselves. The surviving comfort women are now quite old, and have lived through so much adversity that many can faintly remember the sufferings they endured. To help them remember their experiences more clearly, all the researchers compared the details of the accounts with what we know about the military history of Japan through documents ” page 12
ttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/030433264X/103-1096385-2718212?v=glance&n=283155
Thanks.
”
if u look at the history, did korean starved when japanese ruled korea?”
If you look at the collection of testimonies by Korean Americans who lived under Japanese rule, they say,
” many people, it turned out, lived ordinary lives. Interview after interview began with sentences such as, “Nothing much happened to me. The Japanese people were not bad. We got along. It was the police that bothered us. I just stayed out of their way. .” However, these same people had small bits of salts and pepper tucked away in their interviews that, when gathered together, added dimension to the larger picture.pare 5
ttp://koreaweb.ws/ks/ksr/ksr02-02.htm
JK, #117:
That was exactly the link I was referring to - in order to prove your point (which you fail to do) you are obligingly providing a flood of links to “Occidentalism”, thus bringing a lot of new reader’s to Matt’s blog. Okay, maybe that was what you intended…
JK, you may not believe it, but, regarding the comfort women issue, I am actually on your side, for once. Not that I like siding with you - it is just that I happen to think the same here. I have written about it before (over at Metro’s blog). I think Shinzo Abe, or even more appropriately, the Tenno himself, should come over to Seoul and fall on his knees in front of these old ladies.
But I also find Baduk’s arguments interesting, he really sounds very pragmatic here.
I actually favour a closer and more amicable connection between Korea and Japan. An absolute no-no for many, but a “marriage of necessity” for others. Because China (a country I actually like due to my affiliation to Chinese culture on account of my upbringing in HK and S’pore) is certain to aspire to regional dominance, if not more.
Funny, many of my friends are from the PRC. They keep asking me what I think of their country. I tend to answer that I love Chinese culture, also like the PRC to some extent, but certainly do not want her to rule the world, or even the East Asian region.
Fantasy
Do you happen to know how Germany apologized and compensation for the prostitutes under Nazis?
In case of German,
German—500 military brothels, similar to Japanese system.
(IKUO Hata ttp://www.amazon.co.jp/慰安婦と戦場の性-秦-郁彦/dp/4106005654
From what I have read, and if I remember correctly, a German journalist heard about Korean comfort women, and investigated German case, and broad casted it . There was no reaction. Since then no movement toward the atonement for the former prostitutes under Germany.
I know little about German case.
Could you enlighten us how German atoned for former
prostitutes under German?
Ponta, I fully accept that South Korean govt may be using these people to their advantage.
Possible. As for why the issue was kept silent in South Korea for so long, search for Lt. Okamoto on this thread.
But, Ponta, you’re running around away from the thread, too.
Abe and Nakayama. Aren’t they un-doing whatever their predecessors did and actually strengthening the claim that they didn’t really apologize and they didn’t really compensate?
And, since you came here, how do you defend yourself from the accusation that you are going to people’s private websites, which they did not post, they did not share, but you found by some means or trace, and that you have been digging for entries to defame and pictures to post?
wjk
Thanks.
“Abe and Nakayama. Aren’t they un-doing whatever their predecessors did and actually strengthening the claim that they didn’t really apologize and they didn’t really compensate?”
“Abe’s latest comfort women comments are nothing new”
ttp://www.japanprobe.com/?p=1259(Japan probe)
” As for why the issue was kept silent in South Korea for so long, search for Lt. Okamoto on this thread.”
That might be true.But also, one of the reasons it was kept secret Bruce Cumings says in his book is because Koreans pimps were involved.
I think there is another reason; Korean (then Japanese) soldiers were also using the comfort station under Japanese rule.
Ponta, you’re also trying to have it both ways with Korean Colonial life in Japan as well.
On one hand, Japanese and Koreans were equals, happy, high standard of living.
On the other hand, these girls were so poor, they chose to sell themselves.
Why were they so dirt poor? Japan came to help Koreans live much better than ever before, didn’t they? Can you find a document that says Shilla, Koryo, or Chosun women were so dirt poor they decided to sell their bodies by registering with the armed forces and they later complained they were abducted?
Why were Japanese military docs seeing these women, when their primary duty should be seeing as many soldiers as possible to make sure these men are ready for combat?
@Ponta, #126:
Well, Germany apologised for lots of things to lots of countries and people and paid huge amounts of compensation, all this with very good reason.
You are right with your insinuation that there were no apologies nor compensatory payments to forced prostitutes, although forced prostitution clearly did exist during WWII. But then, while many claims have been handed in on account of the German wartime conduct, there have, to my knowledge, no claims by former forced prostitutes been received.
I would imagine that this is due to the very rigid attitude towards prostitution in Eastern Europe, where these forced prostitutes originated. The admission that they had been prostitutes, even forced prostitutes, might have earned them some compensatory payments, but would at the same time have meant ostracism for them in their own societies. These women had to continue living in their home countries after the war. Where should they have gone instead ?
Fantasy
Thanks.
Japan should study more about the atrocity Japan did during WWⅡ.
But Japan also apologized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....d_by_Japan
and compensated
http://www.jiyuu-shikan.org/e/reparations.html
“Poland Won’t Seek German Reparations”
ttp://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1328961,00.html
when Korea and Japan reached an agreement in 1965,
“Japan agreed to pay 180 billion yen (500 million dollars) indemnity and aid”
Of course there might be problems with Japanese side, but I don’t think that is all there is to this rant about Japan from Korea.
wjk,
“baduk, I agree that business comes first. However, is it too much to ask that your business partner to stop saying your ma’s a whore and your grandfather wanted to be my slave out of his own will?”
–> Nobody, I believe, is saying that. If you become too emotional, people have difficulty following your argument. This sex slave thing is a minor, minor problem. Something that happened more than sixty years ago. Isn’t it time to move on?
“Korea doesn’t have to “serve” anybody.
They have a right to demand equality, state to state.”
–> Sure. Tell that to the Vietnamese. Once the US troops pulled out, the whole country got eaten up by the Commies. Have a right to demand? You can demand all you want but you are shouting in a forest. All you hear is your echo. Nobody will stand for you. Nobody!
The UN is a joke. European countries and the US will only help Korea if that goal aligns with their national interests. I say it one more time, “there is no such thing as the international community that enforces justice”. None. Every country works for itself.
Therefore, Koreans should be very careful. And, think deeply about what works. The Chinese will be a very damaging master. They may literally come and take women away, something the Japanese has not done. The Chinese can be very old-fashioned brute; they are stuck at 15th century where these abominable and horrible things were allowed.
The Japanese, at least, have some money and try to be civilized. They are shifty and evil fellows but at least they try. The Chinese may just say, “soldiers need women. Round up mothers, sisters and daughters and ship them to the front!” No pay. No exceptions.
Choose the lesser of two evils.
wjk
thanks
wjk wrote
“I think you’re trying to have it both ways, and in the process you are sometimes saying the Japanese Imperial Army was involved (when you can say they offered an apology and $, Koreans were responsible), or you will choose the route that they were prostitutes by their own will.”
Japan was supposed to be committed to regulating illegal private pimps and brothels.,but she did it poorly. That is why they should be hold responsible
for it.
They were not kidnapped. In most of the cases,they were sold by their parents or they were deceived by private pimps, Koreans and Japanese or they had little choice but to choose to be prostitutes. It is not the case that they are willing and happy to choose it.
“일제 치하, 일반 백성들에 직접적으로 강요된 최초의 개화는 상투를 자르고, 양반-상놈-노비의 계급을 타파하는 것이었다. 상투를 자르는 것도 유익한 일이었고, 계급제도를 타파한 것도 백성들에는 아주 유익한 것이었지만 백성들은 왜놈, 왜놈 하면서 저항을 했다. 일본이 시키는 것이면 무조건 싫고 나쁜 것이다. 가치관이 일본놈에만 고착돼 있었고, 무엇이 나은 것인가에 대한 과학적 가치관은 없었던 것이다.
개화로 대표되는 일제의 지배를 30년 이상 받아왔으면서도 1940년대 초, 조선 시대의 아버지들은 딸자식을 인간으로 취급하지 않았다. 여성은 가정에서 노예처럼 일만 했다. 어쩌다 공부를 하고 싶어 학교에 몰래 나가면 아버지가 찾아와 교실에서 딸자식의 머리채를 잡아 흔들면서 끌어내 남학생들이 보는 앞에서 책을 태우고 짐승처럼 폭행을 했다.
노동과 학대에 견디다 못한 어린 여성들은 개화된 도시를 향해 가출했다. 돈도 벌고 공부도 할 수 있다는 인신 매매단의 꼬임에 빠져 일본군 위안부로 직행한 여인들도 부지기수다. 일본을 감정적으로 미워하는 사람들은 일본 순사들이 가정에서 일하는 양가집 딸을 무조건 붙잡아다가 일본군 위안부로 넘긴 것으로 홍보해 왔지만 이는 일반적으로 사실과 거리가 멀다.
어린 여식들을 일본군의 노리개로 넘겨준 원흉은 누구인가? 여기에서 판단들이 갈라진다. 필자는 고정관념을 깨지 못하던 조선 시대의 아버지들이었다고 생각한다. 수십 개 나라를 상대로 오파상을 하는 어느 기업인이 이런 말을 했다. 외국을 많이 다녀서인지 말도 활달했다”
ttp://www.newstottpco.www.newstown.co.krvnewsbuilder/mess_column.asp?P_Indcolumn.asp
wjk wrote
“On one hand, Japanese and Koreans were equals, happy, high standard of living.
On the other hand, these girls were so poor, they chose to sell themselves.
Why were they so dirt poor? Japan came to help Koreans live much better than ever before, didn’t they?”
Japanese women in the rural area were equally poor, and pimps provided parents wiht the contract for
their daughter to do sexual service. And some had little choice but to be prostitutes. I think most prositutes now prostitutesould choose another job if there are decent jobs available.
wjk wrote
“Can you find a document that says Shilla, Koryo, Shillasun women weChosundirt poor they decided to sell their bodies by registering with the armed forces and they later complained they were abducted?”
“沿疑錐税 尻姥拭 税馬檎 洛秡釟生稽 瑳 凶 霹獰秡營 鈿椀拭 鉦 2幻誤 舛亀税 偈匈亜 糎仙梅揮 依生稽 蓄舛鞠澗汽 戚依精 穿端昔姥税 鉦 0.5%拭 背雁馬澗 依戚陥. 戚掻拭辞 賺舉引 憤搗研 謂搾廃 偈匈澗 益軒 弦精 収切亜 焼艦陥. 絲淅蟹 兩巵拭 蟹展蟹澗 偈匈澗 働呪廃 採嫌拭 紗馬澗 益醤源稽 識澱閤精 糎仙虞壱 拝 呪 赤陥. 益君蟹 酔軒澗 ‘偈匈’馬檎 戚坦軍 識澱閤精 護護幻聖 彊臣軒壱, 益依幻聖 舛莫鉢馬食 閤焼級心奄 凶庚拭 匈弋撼劦税 幽祚躡戚暗蟹 攜拮人 禽嬢貝 憤搗, 淪嘲檢研 管亜馬澗 越 蛇松人 益顕 蛇松, 瑪拭 淫廃 切政稽崇, 紫帖廃 持醗 去生稽 偈匈虞澗 戚耕走研 莫雌鉢馬心陥”
“Vewed synchroniVewed,synchronically thousands kisaeng and it kisaeng% of the whole population. And The fact is that there were only few who could sing and dance.)
They didn’t choose it. They were born into it.
“As a vassal state of the Yuan Dynasty after the Koryo Kingdom surrendered to the Mongols in 1257, hundreds of women were demanded to serve the sexual needs of envoys. Girls aged 13 to 16 were forbidden from marrying so that a different girl could be found to attend them almost every night.”
http://times.hankooki.com/lpag.....810980.htm
Wjk wrote
“Why were Japanese military docs seeing these women, when their primary duty should be seeing as many soldiers as possible to make sure these men are ready for combat?”
They were afraid of the spread of VD
It is the same stuation as Korstuation the independence.
“In the early days of the US military presence in Korea after the Korean War, VD was rampant amongst the GI population. Infection rates of some units were as high as 25 percent. It was simply out of control. In fact, the issue was so important that entries of VD rates constantly appeared in the 8th US Army Chronology in the 1960s and 1970s. In the 1970s in A-town the checks were conducted in the government health clinic set up outside the gates. “….”The VD checks in the old days of the 1970s used to result in the bar girls wearing color-coded tags. If the tag was red, stay away. Other tags were color coded to show which girls were free of venereal disease on their last check. Checks were monthly — with those bar girls identified as “burning” a soldier being called in for shots out of cycle. EVERY FEMALE who worked in the A-town clubs — bar owner wives, waitresses, old adjumas, and baadjumas — had to submit to a monthly VD check.”
ttp://kalaniosuttpvankalaniosullivan.com/KunsanABb8thFWhHowitwasb11d6.html
I think most prositutes now prostitutesould choose another job if there are decent jobs available.
→I think most prositutes now will choose another job….
It is the same stuation as Korstuation the independence.
→It was the same situation as korean situation after the independene.
Ponta, tell us the name of the Japanese organizaiton you are enlisted in.
So, now you want to say they went voluntarily to make money.
How do you respond to the charge that these women responded to ads for factory jobs, not sex jobs, and found out later they were sex slaves, not factory workers?
and Zonath, just close your eyes. No, you won’t get a kiss, but you’ll have piece of mind.