UPDATE 5: Irony alert—the Boston Globe reports that South Korean officials are joining the fray on “So Far From the Bamboo Grove.” Old news, actually, but still ironic. (HT to jiwonsi)
UPDATE 4: Congratulations to the Chosun Ilbo for actually mentioning the Simon Wiesenthal Center by name. Don’t expect much enlightenment in the comment section, however.
UPDATE 3: According to a press release by Gimm-Young Publishers (and reported by Yonhap), Prof. Rhie Won-bok sent a letter to the Korean American Coalition (KAC) “deeply apologizing” for the distress he caused. He also said he would correct the problematic sections.
But—there’s always a but—Rhie said his work did not stem from anti-Semitism and he had no intention of slandering Jews when he wrote it.
He also said he hoped that the incident wouldn’t become a burden on Korean American-Jewish friendship and cooperation.
Marmot’s Note: Leaving aside for a moment Rhie’s “I didn’t mean to slander Jews” tripe, or his apologizing for “causing concern” (when he should be apologizing for teaching racism to kids), why is Prof. Rhie sending a letter of apology to Korean-Americans? I mean, he probably does owe them an apology for bringing them into his anti-Semitic rant, but shouldn’t the apology be going to a Jewish-American group? I haven’t read the press release, but I hope it’s something like KAC got Suzanne Scholte’s letter (see below) and kindly asked the good professor, “WTF?” Unless, of course—and I’d hate to imagine this to be the case, so please fill me in if you’re in the know—Rhie is apologizing to Korean-Americans for making those all-powerful Jews controlling the “Great Jewish Wall” angry at them.
PS: The comments at Naver.com, of course, are probably worth reading if you’ve got a strong stomach.
ORIGINAL POST: Finally—a Korean news provider picks up the story. Broadcaster MBC ran a piece this morning on how Jews in the U.S. were protesting cartoonist Rhie Won-bok’s anti-Semitic descriptions in his popular comic book series “Far Country, Near Country.”
The Naver.com comments section (583 so far) is not pretty, of course. The more humorous comments were along the lines of, “But how did the Jews know? It’s written in Korean…” Honestly, though, if I were Naver.com, I might be concerned about some of the commentary, especially the Hitler comments…
UPDATE: SBS is on the story, too. Interestingly enough, it also reports that Defense Forum Foundation President Suzanne Scholte sent an email to Korean-American politicians apparently asking them to condemn Rhie’s comic book as well. Personally, I wouldn’t have taken it that far, although given the kinds of things Rhie was saying (things like Jews keep Korean-Americans down), it would have been nice for Korean-American leaders to come out on their own and condemn the book (not that I blame them for not–as far as I know—doing so. I’d be surprised if more than a hand-full of KoAms have even heard of the book, and at any rate, it’s not like they have a collective responsibility to respond each and every time a Korean-Korean writes something stupid).
SBS also reports that “some people” are calling the criticism an “oversensitive” reaction to descriptions taken out context. I found that particularly rich coming on the heals of the “So Far from the Bamboo Grove” uproar. Nevertheless, SBS concluded by saying that many are pointing out the need to handle this situation with care lest the incident harm relations between Jews and Korean-Americans (read: “Essentially reprinting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in comic-book form for students really isn’t all that bad—although encouraging students to read books suggesting that Korean communists may have raped Japanese settlers at the end of WW II is—but we need to do something lest the Jews get angry at Korean-Americans. They control the banks and the media, after all”).
UPDATE 2: Prometheus makes the logical comparison between “So Far from the Bamboo Grove” and Rhie’s comic book… and then amazingly misses the point. But can you blame them when so far, the mainstream media has failed to explain what those oversensitive, nationalist American Jews are upset about?
380 Comments
Regarding those comments at Naver…
Yikes!!! So much for the argument that Koreans are apathetic toward Jews. It’s like Pawi jumped into a swimming pool and spawned a bunch of little Pawi gremlins over there.
Iceberg—It’s a real shame. At this point, you’d think Naver.com might have figured out that some of us CAN read what is being written. I mean, Jesus, if Occidentalism.org is a “hate site,” what does that make Korea’s largest portal site and third-most influential news source?
Now, that being said, I’m loath to draw general conclusions about entire peoples from the character of online discussion. Internet forums tend to bring out the wackos, after all. But I also think the discussion over there has pretty much stuck a fork in the debate over whether anti-Semitism exists in Korea…
You’re absolutely correct. I didn’t mean to imply that all Koreans are like those commenting at Naver. But obviously there is a decent-sized segment of the population who are harboring some serious animosity.
By the way…I used to wonder why, upon learning that I could understand Korean, many Koreans would respond by saying “무서워”. Hmmmmmm.
Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that you were saying that, either. I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn’t tarring the entire population of the Republic of Korea because of bad netizen behavior at Naver.com.
Here is a classic comment from the naver news story you linked.
“필독!!! 미국을 움직이는 유대인들”
A must read!!! The Jews that control America.
LOL.
“It’s not like they have a collective responsibility to respond each and every time a Korean-Korean writes something stupid…” Japan, on the other hand….
Will any Korean media or politician condemn Rhie’s idiotic books? Probably not. No, almost certainly not.
it’s all a conspiracy. naver is controlled by the jews! er…
imo, the fact that mbc and sbs is reporting this a good step forward. the problem with the general commenters, and the general korean population, is that many are shallow thinkers. one, they don’t realize the double standardness of this case and the “So Far From The Bamboo Grove.” i also think many koreans are/were apathethic toward the jews. however, they see this case as jewish people attacking one of their own, and hence, the korean culture, and have to resort to writing the jewish stereotypes to make themselves feel better.
i’ve been in so many conversations with koreans about world issues and they twist and chop arguments in a way that you can never come away thinking at least you opened their minds little bit. i love korea, but people like those commenters just make me shake my head. who the f*ck do these people think they are.
seoulmilk - “who the f*ck do these people think they are.”
The chosen ones?
Correction: The Chosun ones.
I’m not even sure if the reports are a step forward. They certainly don’t criticize Rhie’s claims. And SBS—indirectly, of course—tried to suggest that Jews were overreacting and that the stuff attributed to Rhie was taken out of context, which is bullshit on both counts.
it’s just frustrating to see koreans never accepting faults. i mean, they feel the need to defend a fellow korean even when he’s wrong. the weather is too nice outside for me to get frustrated about this.
When under attack by outside forces you’ll hear no criticism from the hive mind of one of their own.
Were Jews around the world to go down to their local ROK embassy or consulate and start burning flags, fighting with police, cutting off fingers, and calling for a boycott of South Korean products, I’d say they would be overreacting. Strangely enough, I’m not expecting that to happen.
I mentioned Rhie’s comics over dinner to a few of my in-laws - who happen to be extremely nice people - a week or so ago, but they assured me that anything negative contained within couldn’t possibly have any harmful impact on young Koreans because they’re only comic books, not textbooks. I could have argued that comic books and other forms of entertainment likely make a stronger impression (unfortunately) on young people than school books, both in Korea and abraod, but chose - wisely, I think - to have some more galbi and let the conversation drift back to MBC dramas, Lee Dong-guk’s future stardom in the English Premier League, etc.
The rabbi who wrote the letter to the publishing company has a bit of a history with Korea. If you go to the SW website and search “korea,” you’ll find all kinds of interesting links.
Rabbi Cooper was in Seoul collecting information from North Korean refugees about the camps being run in North Korea. The center has also asked the new Korean leader of the UN to try to get it together and bring charges against the officials in North Korea who are responsible for running the “special camps” for the disabled. He was in Japan in 2001 talking with members of the government about opening all of their records from the Second World War, including any and all information related to comfort women.
Too bad the Naver Koreans would never bother to find out the type of people who are reaching out to them.
As a side note, when I was a kid my Jewish friends and I dreamed of working at places like the SWC, because we all wanted to grow up to be Nazi hunters. It never crossed our childish minds that these types of groups might be doing other types of important work.
And then you have dimwits like this (trackbacked to the Naver.com piece).
It’s almost funny…
This seems like the basic injustice in Rhie’s and Bever’s situations. Most people are fine with the ideas that someone stirs up a big AND unnecessary controversy and they get canned.
The injustice is that Bever’s seems to have some documented evidence supporting his claim about those rocks, but his case is ignored and denied (by locals) without any consideration of his arguments’ merits.
And, at the same time, the ignorant, racist libel that Rhie parades as socio-historical fact is accepted by the local without consideration of actual nature of his racist claims. Note that the news is reporting, in effect, that Rhie’s situation is regretable for only one reason. Korean people are bothered by this only because of the possible repercussions on Korean people as a result Jewish people’s reactions.
Western society is focused on educating according to the power of reason. However, in Asia it is instead focused on Confucianism, filial piety and obedience to social superiors.
It’s like Huntington’s clash of civilizations, except in far east Asia.
The injustice of Bever’s case is the flip side of Rhie’s case, that his arguments were/are intially dismissed without an admission that there EVEN COULD be a shred of truth in them.
“cm” said it best: Koreans have not had sufficient time to develop a sense of empathy.
We need to be understanding.
Sine qua non, please don’t drag me into your bullshit discussion of Mr. Bever’s firing, I don’t know him and haven’t said anything about him here.
Sorry, but this sounds like the typical Korean excuse.
“Please, understand North Korea’s situation.”
I do understand. What I understand is that the people here, if they want to live peacefully with other countries, is that Korean people need to get off their lazy asses and look at others with respect.
It’s in the Korean language. Addressing another using the honorific form of the language, essentially, indicates that that people being addressed is superior and thus worthy of receiving my obediance.
Conversely, addressing another using informal language signifies that this other is not worthy of anything from me. And, thus I can do pretty much as my heart desires to this person. Korean people treat each other in this manner.
The problem, and if you are a foreigner and speak the language, you are aware that Korean people generally hold all foreign people as social inferiors, for the only reason that they are foreign and not Korean.
Like I said, I understand Korean people. I understand that they need to deflate their culture-wide over-inflated sense of self-importance.
After all, what has Korean society contributed to world culture in history?
Chinese gave gunpowder; Europe gave scientific study. Has Korean culture ever contributed anything to world society?
P.S. michael, please avoid posting until you can have a civilized discussion without profanity and personal attack. Thank you.
Dogbert: We need to be understanding.
The Fifth Element: Sorry, but this sounds like the typical Korean excuse.
Hey Dogbert please give this tin ear a score so he can figure out what’s going on even though he’s tone deaf.
SBS needs to take a good look at its editorial content.
Sine qua non,
i agree with the gist of your comment, but just because korea has not contributed to something significant does not make them any lesser of a culture/country.
as to koreans holding foreign people as social inferiors, while this may be true to some extent, in many cases, westerners are held as anything but. in fact, one may even argue that koreans’ deep inferior complex is the root cause of bringing down other cultures to make themselves feel equal or better than other cultures.
I don’t know if Dogbert was being serious or not but I can sort of understand the sentiment behind the comment although I have an argument against that.
Lots of nations like to talk about how Americans in particular expect other countries to do in 2 years what America has done over 50 years (civil rights, women’s rights, attacking prejudices, forming tolerance, etc.)
While this is true, I would argue that in America’s case at least, it was setting a well-documented precedent with no other models to follow. (Or if there were other models available for it to follow, perhaps due to the lack of communication technology that we have today, it exerienced slowed progress.)
Perhaps this is a case for Korea. It may have phsysically developed itself at a rapid pace but has yet to mature at that same pace.
I don’t think there is an excuse for Korea this time, however. The world is getting smaller. Precedents have been set for others to follow. Technology has contributed to the convenient spread of accurate education.
As Marmot said, the Korean media could at least take a stand against such ignorance instead of making excuses for it.
Granted this Rhie clown does not represent all Koreans, still it would be great if the media or a politician took him apart for publishing his crappy cartoons.
So they wrote a comic book for kids saying the Jews control the world to the detriment of Koreans in America…..???…..ehhh….
At least it wasn’t Meg Ryan saying something negative about a commercial she made for “some Asian company” that happened to be Korean…..
I mean, come on….
It isn’t like the Korean Jay Leno is saying bad things about Jews on national TV or something…..
That’s a pretty stupid question. Even discounting the intangibles, you’ve still got plenty of inventions and/or technological refinements that Koreans came up with first. And then there’s Snuppy. How dare you forget Snuppy!
I’d prefer to save the discussions of what Korea has or hasn’t contributed to world civilization for some other time…
I was actually being facetious, but I do agree with what Jodi wrote above.
And the plain fact is if you want empathy from others, expect to show it yourself.
If you want others to respect you, show them the respect they deserve.
It’s actually quite simple.
I do too, i think.
But I still wonder about the fact that Korea constantly refuses to be held to account in relation to principle, rather than weaseling out on “the no worse than others, except to the extent we’re trying to catch up” refrain. Very odd, coming from the folks who insufferably celebrate their self-proclaimed history as the only upholders of Confucian orthodoxy.
Globalvillageidiot,
I’m starting to wonder if you really are an idiot, or just playing one.
Chaim Potok, the author of The Chosen, served in Korea during the war.
“He has described his time in South Korea as being a transformative experience; brought up to believe that the Jewish people were central to history and God’s plans, he experienced a continent where there were no Jews and no anti-semitism, yet whose religious believers prayed with the same fervour that he saw in the orthodox synagogues at home. The experience made him question many of the things he had believed in.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Potok
One of his last novels, I am the Clay, is set in Korea.
http://www.lasierra.edu/~balle......clay.html
When under attack by outside forces you’ll hear no criticism from the hive mind of one of their own. sin qua non
the book should be available to anyone who wants to read it. and yes, i wonder why we didn’t see the same kind of reaction to yasukuni or kenkanryu. in my mind, it’s a major contradiction of your alleged opposition to stereotypes. it’s interesting to see how many of you go berzerk about any ctriticism towards jews but won’t do the same when people do it to the people you’re married to. to me, your indignation ain’t so much about the jew as it is your desire to humiliate koreans. that’s why i won’t bring the prof to task. your logic here based on some kind of dark.
‘Korean people need to get off their lazy asses and look at others with respect.’ sin qua non
most of you are treated with the utmost respect in korea and you know it. btw, your telling koreans to get off their ‘lazy asses’ is an example of the respect they could have if they were just like you?
‘Chinese gave gunpowder; Europe gave scientific study. Has Korean culture ever contributed anything to world society?’ sin qua non
are you saying that certain peoples have different worth based on what they didn’t contribute to history? are you a nazi? i think the sw ought to investigate you.
‘The injustice of Bever’s case is the flip side of Rhie’s case, that his arguments were/are intially dismissed without an admission that there EVEN COULD be a shred of truth in them.’ sin qua non
it doesn’t matter whether gerry’s research was sound or not; the university was worried about it’s reputation. you do notice that gerry worked there for 6 years, right? the u only became concerned about gerry’s research when korean netizens started to complain. the school is about making money. it’s under no obligation to become a martyr for the free speech of gerry bever’s.
wake up, tyke.
The Book of Light was also set in Korea… but in I am the Clay, the story is presented from the perspective of the Korean protagonists. Sorry about the omission.
btw, if the koreans were smart, they’d ask to see the translation the EXPAT provided. they should also provide their own translation of the good prof’s book.
pawi,
What was I saying in the other thread? Oh, yeah. Some people bring up Bevers because it clouds the real issue.
pawi,
If you could speak Korean, you’d know the translations are accurate.
Do you have any reason to doubt the EXPAT’s translation, or are you simply suggesting that the EXPAT lacks the proper Korean skills owing to him being an EXPAT?
And, Pawi, you saw enough of the originals here to know that there was some highly offensive material in there. Or were you too busy making fun of the EXPATs to click on Sonagi’s photo collection to actually see what people were getting upset about?
For the record, however, I would like to see, at the very least, the original Korean text posted with the translations over at http://monnarakorea.blogspot.com/. I know it’s a pain in the ass, but it could prove useful/important.
My personal belief is that most expats don’t care that much if there is racism in Korea. Our own societies have the same problem. The issue is this, what does Korea do about the problem? Take a good hard look at itself, debate the issue, develop policies, and solutions, or circle the wagon and claim innocence and blame the outsider.
I can’t comment on how others think, but personally my own opinions are not formed by Korea’s ‘faults’, but by how the average Korean reacts when they are confronted by those ‘faults’. Personally if I witness debate, and reflection upon those ‘faults’ it inspires respect and admiration for Koreans. However if the reaction is to circle the wagon and blame others then the needle on the respect o meter goes down. Koreans are very concerned how foreigners perceive them. I think in Korea the belief is that the best way to ensure foreigners respect Korea is to resort to covering up the dirty laundry (take a look at Arirang). Actually it’s the opposite, most foreigners don’t care that the laundry is dirty, what gets our respect is when an effort is made to clean up the mess. The efforts to cover up the dirty laundry I personally find very offensive and insulting, as it’s saying to me that I as a foreigner am so stupid, that I can’t see through the lies. Please Korea, stop offending me!!!!
Austin, I think you hit the nail on the head. I run into this all the time. In fact, I’ve had Koreans get nervous when I’ve bought books on Korea or mention I’m going to a lecture (like Myers the other night) on Korea. It’s like they want us waygooks to remain ignorant, rather than learn things outside the party line and have a healthy discussion on Korea’s past or current social ills.
I’m sending links about this to every right-wing attack-dog blog out there. Lets get our cartoon jihad on.
I’d hold off on that one.
I think even Confucius said that if Chinese wanted to see how the traditional ways should be, they should look to the foreigner in Korea.
In any event, you can reasonably argue that Korean society did uphold the way with more strength than China. It would be a difficult and pretty much useless conversation about which society is more Confucian today, but it is a historical fact that Korean society held onto its Neo-Confucian conservatism and resisted the reforms brought by Wang Yang Ming.
I am not saying this based on extensive personal research on my part. I’m regurgitating what I’ve read from others (non-Koreans mostly) what have extensively researched Korean and Chinese Confucianism…
On a slightly different track, if you look at some of the things Kim Jong Il and North Korean society has done or elements of their contemporary culture, you can find exact parallels from the Confucian past.
I have no doubt Confucius and later Neo-Confucian theorists would be repulsed by how Kim runs his nation. I am also sure the 12 disciples of Jesus would have been horrified at the Spanish Inquisition……but that doesn’t mean Kim’s way didn’t misappropriate cosmetic points from Korean Confucianism.
‘Korean people need to get off their lazy asses and look at others with respect.’ sin qua non
This is difficult, as we are talking about INTELLECTUAL LAZINESS, something which many supposedly educated koreans have no concept of. For them intellectual achievement in school means being able to memorize hundreds of items of contextless information and regurgitate them on command.
However the intellectual skills necessary to come to terms with inexplicable are neglected. It’s much easier to see the outside world as a series of caricatures, rather than as something three dimensional and living.
And to top it off the very pragmatic south koreans would have to be convinced that there is some economic pay-off to letting go of their stereotypes. But frankly speaking there isn’t- it’s much easier to mistreat foreign workers, for example, when south koreans keep their negative stereotypes about them.
“…to come to terms with the inexplicable..”
Sorry- I left out the all-important article.
“Prof. Rhie Won-bok sent a letter to the Korean American Coalition (KAC) “deeply apologizing” for the distress he caused. He also said he would correct the problematic sections.
But—there’s always a but—Rhie said his work did not stem from anti-Semitism and he had no intention of slandering Jews when he wrote it.
He also said he hoped that the incident wouldn’t become a burden on Korean American-Jewish friendship and cooperation.”
You’re kidding. So, his defense against accusations of anti-Semitism is passing the buck on to the Jews? The guy is playing a dangerous game.
Nope; it was some Han Chinese diehard Ming loyalists some centuries later disgruntled about being ruled by upstart Mongol and Manchrian barbarians from the north and thniking they might get some support from the “cultivate your own garden” (with as much manure as you can steal from tour neighbors’) Koreans.
Concur; the point is that Korean self-congratulatory celebration of their better-than-thou Confucianism is so grotesquely at variance with their actual behaviour you have to wonder why their head don’t explode from cognitive dissonance. [Hint: copious draughts of bad liquor and a deep well-spring of speciesm, ie. they're (fully) human; we're not]].
What’s even more disturbing is some of the comments. Like I said, I don’t want to draw general conclusions about society from Naver.com’s comment section, but at the same time, we’re not talking about just a few comments. Frankly, it’s disgraceful.
Sperwer,
Don’t you think it’s a bit hypocritical of you to,on one hand, criticize Dr. Rhie for his xenophobic books and ,on the other, make blanket statements about Koreans?
It took an Expat to notify the Simon Wiesenthal Center, about this Comic. Now hold on a minute. One would think that Korean mothers who meticiously supervise their children’s education would have seen the racist crap in this comic. So how many Korean mothers would have seen this garbage, maybe 100,000? How many bothered to write to the education board, their local politician, newspaper etc. Probably zilch.
Koreans will not critize the good Professor (Is he REALLY a professor?) because to do so is to critisize themselves for purchasing such garbage, and for not taking any action themselves.
Someguyinkorea - Globalvillageidiot,
I’m starting to wonder if you really are an idiot, or just playing one.
Chaim Potok, the author of The Chosen, served in Korea during the war.
“He has described his time in South Korea as being a transformative experience; brought up to believe that the Jewish people were central to history and God’s plans, he experienced a continent where there were no Jews and no anti-semitism, yet whose religious believers prayed with the same fervour that he saw in the orthodox synagogues at home. The experience made him question many of the things he had believed in.”
Not an idiot, at least for the most part. Was that meant as an insult or compliment? What exactly were you referring to?
In any case, I’m disappointed about the way it has been spun by some sections of the Korean media. Have they translated and published the full text of the letter from the Simon Wiesenthal Center? Has anyone explained what is the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and how the comic book appears to be based on some of its canards?
No.
Has anyone even mentioned the Simon Wiesenthal Center?
No.
No.
Compare this with the way in which “So Far from the Bamboo Groves” was (and still is) sliced and diced.
This is why, in a way, I can’t fully blame the commenters at Naver.com—if they are putting on a display of ugly anti-Semitism, it’s in large part because the media is keeping them ignorant.
It was meant that as a compliment.
Robert,
I couldn’t agree more. Whether they’re doing it on purpose or not, ommiting this crucial information as for effect of keeping their readers in the dark. It clouds the issue.
Robert, why don’t you translate some of the Naver comments? Lets drag those thugs through the public mud. This is the first time I wish I spoke korean..
Apologizes to Korean-Americans?! Too fantastic! Says as much about the man as do his comics.
The most interesting development so far is this question: How did the Jews find out?
I take some pleasure seeing the discomfort this causes. No haven of the esoteric language anymore? More scrutiny to follow?
I hope for his sake the translator of Prof. Rhie’s rubbish is 100% spot on. Not that I doubt he has mistranslated Rhie’s message, but I believe that a minor mistake could allow some to dispute the accuracy of it all.
austin,
A few years ago, while walking with one of my university students, a very bright young man who probably moved on to great things, I remarked that construction workers had left unused bricks on the sidewalk. These bricks had been there for months and no one had made the effort to remedy the problem yet. I inquired about doing something about it because it forced pedestrians to step onto the road. He replied, and I quote, “Nodoby ever bothers to complain about anything because nothing ever gets done when they do. Besides, no one want to risk getting any negative attention from it.” The comic book is one of many discarded bricks on the sidewalk that nobody wants to touch.
Pretty sad (and telling) that this needs to be explained to them. It’s written in their own language. Read a bit of it. Look at the pictures. Not knowing anything about Jews the reader should still understand that the discussed group is being slighted. No heavy lifting required.
Don’t know if this belongs more on the expat blogs thread, but has anyone over there at Naver targeted foreign bloggers - or the EXPAT, in pawi-speak - for their role in potentially making Korea look bad in the eyes of outsiders (not that Prof. Rhie might have brought any of this on himself or anything) or are people fixated, for the moment at least, on a Jewish bogeyman?
Someguyinkorea, Thought as much, but thanks for the clarification. Had a trying ride home on the subway and was feeling a little sensitive. sniff, sniff.
I’ll never forget the first time I encountered open anti-semitism here. It shocked me, largely because it was from a very highly educated businessman.
There seems to be a certain strain in Korean “psuedo-internationalized” society that fancies itself hyper-aware of things in the world. As if spending a semester at Oklahoma State bequeaths a great insider knowledge into America. I suppose this tendency is buttressed by the comic books.
btw, has anybody else, particularly from America, noticed the tendency Koreans have, especially Korean men, for trying to guess which European nation your family name came from?
The tribal thinking is strong in these parts.
“if they are putting on a display of ugly anti-Semitism, it’s in large part because the media is keeping them ignorant.”
AMEN, Robert.
It’s funny, actually. The Naver commenters that have brought it up are generally bewildered as to how ‘dem Jews found out. Now, there are over 1,000 comments on the MBC piece, so it’s not like I went through all of them, but there were at least a couple wondering if the book had been translated and exported. Nobody—again, as far as I knew—had figured out who “leaked” the information (and it’s a sad state of affairs when you feel almost compelled to regard translating a book commonly found in bookstores across Korea as a “leak”). One Korean blogger, in fact, penned a rather long and none-too-pleasant-to-read screed about how the Jews must be researching Korea because the rising economic and political strength of Korean-Americans is threatening Jewish interests.
The rising strength of Koreans? Goddamn some of them are delusional. Only a nationalistic, foolish Korean could think that a Jew might wake up every day concerned about the looming takeover by kyopo.
Nothing surprises me anymore. Maybe only a nationalistic, foolish person (Korean or not) could suggest that Bush, Cheney, and Condi get up an hour early each morning to convene in some sub-basement of the Whitehouse to work on keeping the peninsula divided so as to thwart Korea’s destined rise of superpowerdom, but it has been suggested to me, more or less in such terms, on numerous occasions. These conspiracy theories have generally been voiced to me by intelligent and otherwise nice people - they seldom come across as being malicious in their intent.
Anyway, let’s keep the gang over at Naver guessing as to how those crafty Jews managed this one!
“btw, has anybody else, particularly from America, noticed the tendency Koreans have, especially Korean men, for trying to guess which European nation your family name came from?”
They ask, but they don’t offer any guesses. My name is somewhat common, but my branch of the family still uses the archaic spelling, which doesn’t resemble anything they would have ever encountered. What’s funny is how some can’t seem to get it out of their heads that French and English speakers aren’t segregated, that French and English speakers are free to live anywhere in Canada. I’ve had this conversation too many times to count. It makes me wonder what their social sciences teacher has been telling them about multiculturalism.
“Are you American?”
“No, I’m Canadian.”
“Oh, I heard people speak French and English in Canada.”
“Yes, many do. I can speak French.”
“Really? Are you from Quebec?”
“No, I’m not.”
“But, you speak French?”
“Yes, but people speak French all over Canada. French speakers don’t have to live in Quebec.”
“So, do you live near Quebec City?”
“No, I don’t live in the province of Quebec.”
“Are you from Montreal?”
“No, I’m from another province.”
“Where are you from?”
“….”
“Is that in Quebec?”
This will probably result in a big, second tongue lashing by the
Jewish groups that have already criticized Rhie. With more Koreans then jumping on board to fight back again.. could snowball. Should we start a pool on how far it goes?
I could see Korean netizens/hackers spamming ADL servers or something..DoS attacks or other hacks. If the next Jewish salvo hits the national media here again, how many comments will naver
get? 1000s I imagine. Some Korean politicians could get involved. I could see Korean politicians coming out to defend Rhie much easier than I could see them coming out to criticize him.
Maybe some Korean churches will cancel trips to the ‘holy land.’ The devil in me looks forward to all this mischief.
In the Hilarious Boneheaded Theory category , by the way:
I once had a conversation with a manager from Samsung who told me the proof that Koreans were smarter than most was the size of their heads. I asked him if he had heard of phrenology. No. Good fun, I thought.. I said, ‘Well the nazis agreed with you that skull size and shape determined intelligence and character.” He paused. “I think the German people are very smart,” he said. I continued. “But they used bogus science to justify mass murder. In fact there is no correlation between skull shape and intelligence.”
He asked what bogus meant, and then we changed topics.
relayer,
DoS attacks on the SWC? Ouch. That would be like an alcoholic calling the cops to tell them that he’s drunk driving.
“…the proof that Koreans were smarter than most was the size of their heads.”
There used to be a sign as you entered the first exhibit at the Chonan Independance Hall that made mention of this. It’s that brain to body mass ratio argument that only hold true when you compare organisms from very different species.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.....mass_ratio
Robert wrote:
“This is why, in a way, I can’t fully blame the commenters at Naver.com—if they are putting on a display of ugly anti-Semitism, it’s in large part because the media is keeping them ignorant.”
Well, that’s partly true. None of the reports provided any background on anti-Semitism to help viewers understand the reactions of Jewish and non-Jewish Americans. I wonder, though, if the reporters are even aware of what the Simon Wiesenthal Center is or have ever heard of the Protocals of the Elders of Zion. The reports did show viewers some of the most offensive cartoons.
“The Naver commenters that have brought it up are generally bewildered as to how ‘dem Jews found out. Now, there are over 1,000 comments on the MBC piece, so it’s not like I went through all of them, but there were at least a couple wondering if the book had been translated and exported. Nobody—again, as far as I knew—had figured out who “leaked” the information (and it’s a sad state of affairs when you feel almost compelled to regard translating a book commonly found in bookstores across Korea as a “leak”). “
Hilarious! You mean that some furiners can speak OUR LANGUAGE?! How did these toads get into our well?
Tambe wrote:
“Robert, why don’t you translate some of the Naver comments? Lets drag those thugs through the public mud. This is the first time I wish I spoke korean.”
How sad that you want to speak Korean only to read hate spew.
Why the hell else would I want to learn it? To get a job at Yaile Hagwon in Bucheon “teaching”? I’ll pass, thanks. What would be sad would be spending time to learn how to speak it only to find out that most everything you now understand is racist, nationalistic, xenophobic, nonsensical, aggrandizing lies. And what would be even more sad would be the look of indifference on the face of a potential employer in the West when you list your language abilities. You might as well learn Klingon.
Someguy:
It should be apparent that I’m not talking about each and every Korean, but the overall cultural construct.
Robert: “The Naver commenters that have brought it up are generally bewildered as to how ‘dem Jews found out.”
What does this tell you? They are more concerned about how the country has been shamed–or at least is getting negative international press– than finding out the truth and doing the right thing by Mr. Rhie.
As much as I strongly believe that everyone should be at least biligual and that any new language learnt is an asset– regardless of how common or obscure it may be–this had me laughing out loud:
“Why the hell else would I want to learn it? To get a job at Yaile Hagwon in Bucheon “teaching”?”
“It should be apparent that I’m not talking about each and every Korean, but the overall cultural construct.”
It should be apparent that it could be understood otherwise.
Robert: “The Naver commenters that have brought it up are generally bewildered as to how ‘dem Jews found out.”
‘What does this tell you? They are more concerned about how the country has been shamed–or at least is getting negative international press– than finding out the truth and doing the right thing by Mr. Rhie.’ (aletheia)
And in the brewing shit-storm no-one has yet come forward to denounce anti-semitism or violence against jews?
Outstanding.
Our korean friends might take the time to consider that whenever a similar incident happens in dear old Europe some people at lest take the time to speak out publicly against racism.
Robert wrote:
“why is Prof. Rhie sending a letter of apology to Korean-Americans? I mean, he probably does owe them an apology for bringing them into his anti-Semitic rant, but shouldn’t the apology be going to a Jewish-American group? I haven’t read the press release, but I hope it’s something like KAC got Suzanne Scholte’s letter (see below) and kindly asked the good professor, “WTF?” “
I wonder why Ms. Scholte sent a letter to the Korean-American organization instead of Mr. Rhie’s publisher or his employer. Korean Americans aren’t responsible for this nut making money poisoning Korean kids’ minds with racist tripe.
I want people to remember what yahoo news message boards were like.
Do you want people to translate that into Korean?
Keep in mind that naver lets you comment anonymously.
When omnipotent world Jewry has you in their sites you are indeed the center of the world. Mission Accomplished.
Warning bells were first raised at Mossad when The O.C.’s lily white Summer took the Korean rapper to the prom to spite Jewy Seth.
This seems like a particularly important reminder for this discussion.
By the way, wjk, do you tend to criticize this society or do you tend to support this society? This blog needs a great many more supportive voices painting the opposite side of the canvas, opposite from the majority here.
It is a shameful demerit that this blog’s commentary forum’s sense of support of this society is so lacking as to be anemic.
In ways, this blog seems similar to the ignorant posters on Naver, except everybody here is jumping on the bandwagon heading in the opposite direction.
For your daily dose of korean-inflected surrealism, I recommend reading the latest on the “So Far from the Bamboo Grove” uproar:
http://www.boston.com/news/loc.....ok/?page=1
tambe wrote:
Why the hell else would I want to learn it? To get a job at Yaile Hagwon in Bucheon “teaching”? “
If Robert hadn’t bothered to learn Korean, he might still be a hagwon teacher.
@wjk,
That’s the whole point. Anonymous message boards bring out the worst in people everywhere. I read the comments that got hundreds of recommendations and noted that the most recommended one (700+ recs) called for an investigation into charges that sections of the book were prejudiced. The second most recommended post (almost 600 recs) suggested publishing a Munnara volume on the Middle East, to expose the slaughter of innocent Arabs, including children, by Israelis. The fourth most rec’d (almost 500) cited passages and asked “what’s problem?” “It’s all true, isn’t it? The fifth and sixth most rec’d (350+) praised Hitler and expressed sorrow that his great humanitarian task of exterminating the Jews was never accomplished.
I used to read the message boards at Yahoo before they were taken down. News items on Korea or China got their share of racist posts, but the posts never got more than a couple of recs. Compare that with 400 Korean netizens cheering on a bizarre ode to Hitler’s genocide of the Jews.
Despite the ugly comments about Jews in particular and hideous praise of Hitler and the Holocaust, I see this as more a typical “단결” response to any waeguks who dare to criticize anything Korean. If the NAACP were objecting to negative depictions of African-Americans, Korean netizens would be spewing “깜둥이.”
Anonymity does not make good people hate; it enables ordinary people to expose their own latent hatred and bigotry.
“This blog needs a great many more supportive voices painting the opposite side of the canvas, opposite from the majority here.”
A lot of the stuff selected and served up by the Marmot is hard to be “supportive” about with logical argument and factual points, which is why we see all the baiting, non sequiturs and unpersuasive counterexamples. Korea has a built-in booster club in the form of the Korean media and a far more unified pack of netizens and expatriates/emigres than most other free societies seem to generate.
Right. And the Korean media and netizens all have the same types of ‘baiting, non sequiturs and unpersuasive counterexamples.’
We need many more REASONABLE supportive voices here.
Read for yourselves the bizarre ode to Hitler that’s got 400 recs so far:
히틀러 폐하께서 눈물을 흘리실 일이도다..
“히틀러 폐하께서 인류를 구원하고자 유태인들을 학살하였으나, 소수의 살아남은 유태인들의 흉계에 의해서
폐하께서는 끝내 대업을 이루시지 못한채 눈물을 흘리며 붕어를 하시옵고, 미래의 후손들이 폐하의 대업을 유지하지 못한채,
유태인들에게 고개를 숙이나니, 이 어찌 폐하께서 개탄할 일이 아니란 말이온가! 아아, 폐하여..
인류와 세계를 지키지 못한 무지몽매한 후손들을 용서하소서.. “
date and time of post: 11 2007/02/15 21:01
It’s not very legible in italics, so I’m posting again in regular type:
히틀러 폐하께서 눈물을 흘리실 일이도다..
“히틀러 폐하께서 인류를 구원하고자 유태인들을 학살하였으나, 소수의 살아남은 유태인들의 흉계에 의해서
폐하께서는 끝내 대업을 이루시지 못한채 눈물을 흘리며 붕어를 하시옵고, 미래의 후손들이 폐하의 대업을 유지하지 못한채,
유태인들에게 고개를 숙이나니, 이 어찌 폐하께서 개탄할 일이 아니란 말이온가! 아아, 폐하여..
인류와 세계를 지키지 못한 무지몽매한 후손들을 용서하소서.. “
wjk:
“I want people to remember what yahoo news message boards were like. Do you want people to translate that into Korean?”
and
“Keep in mind that naver lets you comment anonymously.”
Fair enough about Yahoo boards, but who wouldn’t admit that there are tons of racist idiots in the US? Or China, Canada, Russia, Europe for that matter.
Yet, a racist animated history book gets published in Korea and the media fails to even notice or care for a couple years, racist tripe fills the Naver boards, and yet, the majority of Koreans insist that this is not a racist country. It is this very ‘gap’ that motivates people to be cynical on this and other similar issues.
You seem to partake in it as well. By that last sentence are you suggesting that anonymity makes people say things they don’t “really mean”? If it is, isn’t explaining away the racism too?
last line: If it is, isn’t THAT explaining away the racism too?
Contrast the reactions of Korean netizens and overseas Koreans like wjk with the cooperative efforts between foreigners and Japanese in getting Family Mart to remove from its shelves a racist comic and issue a letter of apology. Read all about it at http://www.japanprobe.com .
Well, to be fair, racist shit gets published all the time and fails to make the news. I think the issue of concern here is more that this particular racist shit became a best seller before it took an overseas organization to point out that it was dangerously close to Nazi propaganda.
And while I think there’s probably a perception about a lack of racism in South Korea (amongst the local populace), I wonder how much of that comes simply because South Korea seems to lack much of the hypersensitivity over racism that more culturally-and-racially-integrated countries like Canada and the US have. Point out to the average person in South Korea that prevailing attitudes about Japan are racist (well, cultural chauvanism really) or that stereotypes of black people (like the golliwog-like pictures on those ‘Mi in black’ snacks they used to make) are racist, and I don’t really think that the average person would argue much. At least, that’s been my experience. There simply isn’t much awareness of racism in South Korea.
Sine qua non is doing his apparent crusade to bring logic to discourse on Korea and reasonableness to online debates a constant and deep disservice with his own misreadings of comments, sloppy reasoning and trollesque off-topic attacks. You got off to a bad start here, attacking Sperwer’s supposed problematic prose and then subjecting us to days of knee-jerk retorts or irrelevant meanderings. If you are going to call for reasonableness, you should be adding to the sum total of that here, not subtracting from it.
Wow.
A bunch of goyims getting hot and bothered by anti-semitism in Korea.
Jesus forgives you all.
Yeah, imagine that, people getting offended by prejudice against other people not of their own ethnicity or religion. What a shocking notion!