Good. the Simon Wiesenthal Center has denounced Rhie Won-bok’s comic “Far Country, Neighbor Country” for its anti-Semitic content (HT to One Free Korea):
“The images in question in Monnara Iunnara echo classic Nazi canards like those found in Der Sturmer and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion by recycling various Jewish conspiracies like Jewish control of the media and money, Jews profiting from war, and even the reason for the 9/11 attacks was that, ‘Jews use money and the media as weapons in America to do as they want’,” charged Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Wiesenthal Center, adding, “the author also even alleges that the ‘final obstacle to success’ in the U.S. for Korean-Americans is a so-called ‘Wall of the Jews’.”
“The Center urges Koreans of goodwill whatever their political, ideological or religious affiliation to denounce this bigotry and strongly suggest that if they wish to know the truth about the Jewish people and their values that they reach out to their Jewish neighbors,” said Cooper.
Cooper is also urging the Eun-ju Park, CEO of Gimm-Young, the publisher of Monnara Iunnara, to “carefully review the slanders in this book that historically have led to antisemitic violence and genocide,” and instead, “consider providing facts about the Jewish people, our religion and values to young Koreans.”
Rabbi Cooper was nice enough to acknowledge the efforts of American expats (not used as a dirty word here) in Korea for bringing the issue to the center’s attention.
I’ve linked to the press release above. Rabbi Cooper’s letter to Gimm-Young Publishing, meanwhile, can be read here.
Now, if we’re lucky, some local and/or foreign press will pick up on this story as well, especially now that the Wiesenthal Center has weighed in on the issue.
The only thing that I find regretful about this whole affair (so far) is that the attention comes a little late—the fact that the comic has been out since 2004 and is getting attention only now (even after the Chosun ran a story on it) should be proof enough that the Jews don’t control the media. With the foreign press running several pieces this week on a xenophobic comic book in Japan, I couldn’t help but think that there were times Korea should actually be thankful that it so often flies under the world media radar.
Nevertheless, it’s better late than never, and much credit should go to Joe in Bucheon for taking the effort to translate the book and bring it to wider attention.
UPDATE: Israel’s Ynetnews has run a story on the Wiesenthal Center statement.
UPDATE 2: This comment by “austin” does provoke thought:
Now if a foreign ‘professor’ at a uni can be fired (Contract not renewed) for writing stuff about Dok Rocks (Not Dok-Do as Do means island) that Koreans disagree with, what are the consequences if a Korean Professor employed at a University, writes racist, and slanderous books, that are condemned internationally. Surely, doesn’t this tarnish the reputation of the University. Then again, in the eyes of Korean netizens, maybe being racist is in fact good for ones reputation.
Well, I’m not going to assume anything about the netizens, but as for the rest of the comment, if Gerry Bevers could be disciplined for tarnishing the reputation of his school by posting controversial opinions about the Dokdo islets on a blog, one naturally might wonder what Rhie’s employer—Duksung Women’s University—should think if his comic book were to come under greater attack. It would be quite unfortunate if a situation were to develop where one could fairly criticize Korea for being a place where publishing blatantly anti-Semitic rhetoric in a popular student comic book series is OK but posting unpopular views about Dokdo on a blog puts you beyond the pale.
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Better late than never I guess Mr Marmot. I hope it does come to the world’s attention, but it probably won’t. Why does it seem that most Korean nationals hate everyone but themselves?
“The only thing that I find regretful about this whole affair (so far) is that the attention comes a little late—the fact that the comic has been out since 2004 and is getting attention only now…”
Well, if Korean-American parents can blow a gasket about a book by a Japanese writer that was published 20 years ago, I think the Wiesenthal Center is justified in protesting this bigoted crap. It’s still being published in Korea after all.
With ya on that one michael. It’s about time something be done about this blatant hypocrisy. Again, Koreans can do it to others, but when it happens to them…And of course Westerners do the same. The difference is that Westerners are barbarians, Koreans are not.
Quite simply, it’s envy clumsily manifested as hate.
Take a look at the cartoons in question, substitute “Koreans” for “Jews,” and you have the aspirations and dreams of the author in question. Not to mention that of a good number of Koreans.
Breaktrack wrote:
“Why does it seem that most Korean nationals hate everyone but themselves?”
Given the Korean propensity to sectionalism, provincialism, and other tribalism of all sorts, your presumption is highly contestable.
Mr. Choe is right, there is an element of self-loathing in some parts of the society that manifests in the ways he described. It’s one of the paradoxes here that the people can be so nationalistic and factional at the same time.
By the way, Joshua’s Blog is “suspended”–probably for exceeding its allotted bandwidth. Has he become prey to VANK-er aggression?
No, I’d imagine he’s become victim to Bluehost’s CPU usage issues. I like Bluehost, but they were prone to do that. It’s why I moved.
Bizarre semi-related football analogy incoming!
Back in the’good ole days’ when hooligans were allowed to be hooligans, you may be beating the crap out of a guy with a pipe one day (club matches) then the next week standing side by side with the same guy beating the crap out of a foreign guy (international).
I just got home and discovered that my site crashed after a lot of digg links to my last post about the mass escape from Camp 16. Guess all those gargantuan images were a bit much.
The revenge of Feffer for OFK.
The site is back up. Not VANK or Chomskyites, just hotlinkers. I know that trick where you replace switch your image url with some gay cat porn, but I’m just too nice a person to do such a thing.
This time, anyway.
“Nevertheless, it’s better late than never, and much credit should go to Joe in Bucheon for taking the effort to translate the book and bring it to wider attention.”
Well, some of us did email some links to the Simon Wiesenthal Center. It’s funny how blogs now make the news.
I’ve actually had one of my emails plagiarized by several leading American magazines and newspapers. I emailed some guy who had a blog about a reality TV show about a tidbit of information that I had found out online. Told the guy to quote my email word for word if he wanted as long as he didn’t reveal his source. It’s exactly what he did, and then the reporters plagiarized it from there.
i wonder how this is going to play out with the Korean netizens once they read that the Wiesenthal Center was tipped off by American expats in Korea.
More wisdom from Prof. Lee:
http://article.joins.com/artic.....ID=2611754
Here’s a photo of the good professor. Please forgive the follow-up post.
http://www.heraldbiz.com/SITE/.....190004.asp
Actually, the football hooligans analogy is a good one Goat.
Anybody else see the Chinese guy get decked at the friendly match in London? Good to see China taking its place on the international stage
http://www.goal.com/en/Articol.....oId=229456
Jews are cool
dogbertt’s photo shows the professor with a glass of Medoc getting ready to dine on mung-mungtang
Oh sorry, I’m stereotyping.
Back in high school I used to smoke weed at parties with the parents of my Jewish friends. Jews are cool.
Looking at that photo of the prof with dog, I’m reminded of Baduk’s talking cat. Not sure why.
My wife just told me she has read the book. What she got from it is that although she doesn’t believe his intentions were malicious, he did rely heavily on stereotypes, good and bad, to express his views.
I already sense goose shit boy putting his parastaltic machinery in action to pinch a loaf about how this episode is really about the victimization of Koreans, especially by the subhuman expat scum floating on the waters of the pure-blood minjok.
Hey Someguy, definitely no offense to your wife, but that’s just lame. Serving up every stupid, bigoted stereotype under the sun (look at the quotes on Joe of Bucheon’s blog for Lee’s views of whites etc) but “not in an intentionally malicious way” only means the man is incredibly stupid.
Now if a foreign ‘professor’ at a uni can be fired (Contract not renewed) for writing stuff about Dok Rocks (Not Dok-Do as Do means island) that Koreans disagree with, what are the consequences if a Korean Professor employed at a University, writes racist, and slanderous books, that are condemed internationally. Surely, doesn’t this tarnish the reputation of the University. Then again, in the eyes of Korean netizens, maybe being racist is in fact good for ones reputation.
michael, she was saying that the guy probably doesn’t know any better. She’s not excusing it, she just understands his mistake.
Oh, and I don’t think he’s that stupid. Over 10 million books…even if he made 500won off each, that’s quite a bit of cash.
Someguy, I meant I understand she’s not excusing Lee, he’s just incredibly stupid. And over 10 million books sold is a combination of “there’s a sucker born every minute” and someone shrewd enough to capitialize on that.
Unacceptable for a man in his position.
The thing is, a lot of objectional things get said in the Korean media by people who think foreigners don’t understand Korean enough to take them up on it. But, times are changing because an increasing number of foreigners now study Korean.
The psycho-social dynamic of Korean demonization of other races/nations rivals in its origins and complexity – particularly in respect of the memes of sectionalism, provincialism, tribalism, national humiliation, etc. – that of that other völkische people so well that it’s probably worth rereading Fritz Stern’s The Politics of Cultural Despair: A Study in the Rise of the German Ideology to really get a perspective on how to understand it. The Metropolitician already has done yeoman’s work in collecting and catalogueing a lot of the sources. See his “Starter Post” on Korean racism to get digging. Jargon alert: first you have to chew through a thick cardboardy crust of pop-Gramsci) goobledygook. Which is too bad, because the “theory” is simple enough. You don’t need to read German, Italian, Russian or even French loggorheaolics of abstraction to get it. Herodotus, Xenophon and Tacitus laid it all out in simple prose a long time ago. Caeser and Ghengis Khan were practical masters of it. Unify related but contentious groups bent on internecine conflict over limited natural and affective resources by focusing their violence on outsiders, particularly ones who can be painted as having a fifth column inside the tribal tent. The devil is in the details, though. What happens in a modern industrial state forged out of the remnants of a humiliated nation, which itself and the volk on which it is based themselves both are more wishful thinking than settled historical fact and without an effective competing ideology (e.g., govt of, by and for the people having equal rights w/out reference to religion, ethnicity or color or creed. One of the results is a knucklehead like Rhie Won-bak who actually has a sizable audience. The MP provides a lot of materials that elucidate both the emergence of a dangerous clown like Rhie and the reasons why he is not an anomaly.
10 million books? Wouldn’t that mean almost every household in Korea would have a copy somewhere? Do the Jews control publishing, advertising, and booksellers in Korea too? Without harnessing their secret powers, I doubt such marketing genius could be possible.
Have they translated that “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” yet? I don’t think this kind of thing indicates any racist tendencies on the part of Korean society, merely a tendency to be late to the party. Believing in the Zionist conspiracy for world domination is so 1930s, so it’s only fitting that it finally arrive here. Kind of like how every other person on the subway is reading “Angels and Demons” by the DaVinci code guy
Angles and Demons…That book was a waste of my time, to say the least. It’s like a Hardy Boys mystery, but with simpler sentence structures and a more predictable plot.
Angels, not angles.
ain’t it interesting? while the koreans must adopt to the sensibilities of westerners, westerners themselves don’t need to adopt to the sensibilites of asians. when a racist book about koreans came out in japan, many of you defended it. you certainly weren’t whinning about racism then.
i’m going to write to the wiesenthal center and ask them to peruse the comments on this blog so they can see that the people who whine about racism in korea are racists themselves.
as far as the book is concerned, korea is a democracy and thus the book should be available to anyone who wants to read it.
I believe that figure equates to the sales figures for the entire series of books rather than this particular one, so I think we can safely assume that some households are likely to have multiple volumes. But even so, considering how comic books are traded, borrowed, and otherwise disseminated, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that many (or even most) people of a certain age have at least read one of these.
“as far as the book is concerned, korea is a democracy and thus the book should be available to anyone who wants to read it.”
I agree with this. Books don’t kill, people do.
Pawi: Go right ahead. And while you’re at it, maybe you can ask them about “Jewish groupthink.” You can also finally ask them how this compares with Chinese netizens saying mean things about Korea.
Yep, and anyone who finds it offensive should be free to criticize it.
Wooo! Good luck with that, tonto. Are you also going to pigeon-bomb them? Oh, forgot, that’s what your posts are — so much bird shit.
That’s funny. I remember a not so long ago time when the Korean govt. had an internet ban so as to prevent anyone who wanted to view a certain video from doing so and that ban affected tons of sites unrelated to the questionable video.
Why anyone would have wanted to watch the video in the first place (just as why anyone would have wanted to read this comic book in the first place) is beyond me but Korea as a democracy in terms of access to media, well, as the Beach Boys sang, “Wouldn’t it be nice?”
I don’t think a-letheia was defending the internet ban. And for that matter, I happened to agree with a-letheia that the book shouldn’t be banned. It should be condemned, however… or at least it should have been when it was published in 2004.
And for the oh-so-easy guess about the inevitable editorials.
1) Who better than the Koreans to empathize with the Jews, i.e. if we can’t beat ‘em join ‘em.
2) Korea’s cultural and/or economic isolation has caused this misunderstanding, i.e. give oneself the idiot pass.
3) Korea tricked by anti-Semitic works from the west, i.e not our fault.
4) And a slam against the Japanese, i.e. we’re not as bad.
Pawi, I reckon the Wiesenthal Center will find much to worry about when they peruse everything you’ve posted. Please do send that e-mail.
““as far as the book is concerned, korea is a democracy and thus the book should be available to anyone who wants to read it.””
How do you feel about the Korean government banning porn in the name of protecting ‘impressionable young minds’?
As Robert was saying, the book shouldn’t be banned, but it must certainly be condemned.
Jeez….Korea also bans video games.
Oh, and Pawi, since you are so focused on calling out expat hypocrites (often building strawmen in the process), let me ask you this—Since you defended Gerry Bever’s university for getting rid of him, don’t you think Duksung Womens’ University should get rid of Prof. Rhie for inviting international condemnation?
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Of course, Korea isn’t exactly a paragon of free speech and toleration; but that’s besides the point for birdman, because pointing out a fact about Korea when you’re not Korean = anti-Korean racism and discrimination in his Little Book of Kimchi. It’s the farcical rerun – a stick-figure comic version of Chaplin as The Great Dictator — of the proto-Reich govt denouncing Thomas Mann as being un-German for having the temerity to demur from the national socialist line. One of the true tests of a racist is that’s what it all comes down to in the end for him. Who fits that description – the lawn despoiler or his critics here in the lists who, despite occasional disparaging asides, generally ground the tire spikes they scatter in the way of overinflated Korean pretensions on the less sanguine ground of some neutral principled position or other. Somebody please pass me the Bernelli; the single shot version will do nicely.
“It is understandable, though unfortunate, that some misguided Koreans have, in an effort to understand why this recognition hasn’t come, been duped by “answers” written by anti-Semitic writers abroad.”
Read pp. 223-224 of ‘State and Society in Contemporary Korea’. Very interesting passage about Yi Bom Sok who went to Germany in the 1930s to study the Fascist youth groups, helped set up the Blue Shirts in Taiwan, and founded the Korean National Youth in the late 40’s in Korea.
Let me change my question for Mr Choe. Why does it seem that most Korean nationals hate all other ethnic groups but their own? I guess I should have been clearer with that one, I thought it was simple enough. Please note that I used “seem” and “most Korean nationals” and not “all Korean nationals” in my question. I’d like to see Pawi respond to Mr Marmot’s question. That would be a hoot! Since the US is a democracy they had every right to use Kawashima’s book in their schools right Pawi?
Aw, come on. If we keep forcing nulji to jump through hoops in order to justify his hypocrisy, his head will explode!
“Let me change my question for Mr Choe. Why does it seem that most Korean nationals hate all other ethnic groups but their own?”
Most Koreans don’t hate other ethnic groups despite the fact that Korean modern nationalism finds its roots in Social Darwinism. Read up on colonial Japan’s policies aimed at assimilating Koreans, the writings of Yi Bom Sok, and their effect on Korean ethnic nationalism. That should be a good place to start.
it’s funny how expats keep comparing this professor to gerry. gerry was a highly replaceable esl teacher who keep posting at anti-korean website call occidentalism.org. to expats, occidentalism is truth telling website (it was nominated for best blog) but to koreans, it’s a hate site. for sake of argument lets say i was highly replaceable korean language teacher in some college in israel. and if i post some bs about how jews are stealing lands from palestine on some blog that also claims that jews fabricated holocaust then i doubt they would renew my contract too.
i used to like this blog but slowly, this blog is turning into one of those antikorean website (occidentalism). i know this blog is not nytimes so it doesnt have to be objective but i am rather disappointed. i think too many expats are effected by kenkanryu.
kimchi,
It’s not ‘expats’ but ‘expat’ (austin at #25). Don’t try to divert the topic.
jd wrote:
“i wonder how this is going to play out with the Korean netizens once they read that the Wiesenthal Center was tipped off by American expats in Korea.” The blogger who contacted the Wiesenthal Center lives in the US.
You’re right—it probably is silly to compare the two. But not for the reason you say. All Gerry did was post about Dokdo on a blog. And from what I understand, where he was posting was never an issue. Prof. Rhie, on the other hand, chose to perpetuate anti-semitic stereotypes and accusations in a popular comic book aimed at teaching students about the world. The fact that you can not only compare the two, but actually suggest—as you do—that what Gerry did was somehow worse might be suggestive of the real problem.
BTW, about Occidentalism, personally, I don’t like its tone, but if you’re wondering why some expats think it’s a “truth-telling website,” perhaps you might wish to begin your search by reflecting one more time about what you wrote in comment 53 (I don’t mean that to sound confrontational, BTW).
kimchi2000 wrote; “i used to like this blog but slowly, this blog is turning into one of those antikorean website (occidentalism). i know this blog is not nytimes so it doesnt have to be objective but i am rather disappointed. i think too many expats are effected by kenkanryu.”
Blaming troubles in present-day Korea to the Japanese is just absurd. I am starting to see that Koreans, generally, don’t know much about personal
responsibility. It is never their fault, it is always the fault of the others. I think this is one of the reasons why so many expats are down on Korea. You guys should try to fix yourselves for your own problems. Otherwise, many more people will come to dislike Korea more and more.
I recall pawikirogi spouting some similar racist nonsense a few months ago on a thread about the korean king’s visit to yasukuni. His point was that the jews manipulate the U.s. government into manipulating the media and people into ignoring military action in Lebanon while yasukuni wasn’t on the agenda because it isn’t important to the jews.
Kimchi 2000 it”s obvious by now that Koreans are the experts on hate. World-class, they are. Anyway you can always take your disappointment to naver or one of those cyworld cafes…
“i used to like this blog but slowly, this blog is turning into one of those antikorean website”
I can’t vouch for all the other posters, but I doubt that’s what motivates the majority. I don’t hate Koreans (my wife and son are Korean and, well…they’re great). I’ve been witness to racism all my life, even had some directed at me, so the colour of a person’s skin most certainly isn’t a deciding factor in how I form my opinion of them. My posts are simply an expression of my hopes that Korea will become a much greater country than it already is (Is it too much to ask that my son isn’t exposed to nationalistic propaganda and bigotry?). I guess you just don’t get it because you have a different opinion of what makes a country great than I do (for example, Norway and Sweden are pretty awesome in my books (well, except for the high taxes…Korea’s got them beat on that one)).
Jiwonsi—I believe you were referring to this comment:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/.....ment-46197
No need to get nasty with Kimchi2000, though.
jiwonsi,
i do not know what pawikirogi said and i really dont care. jiwonsi, please find some peace within urself. hate is not a good thing.
kimchi2000: “i used to like this blog but slowly, this blog is turning into one of those antikorean website (occidentalism).”
This is not an anti-Korean website; this is not an anti-Korean discussion. You are just going to have to trust that statement. In Western cultures, discussion and debate are just the way things are done.
Nobody’s burning the Korean flag, here. Of the posters, most seem pretty reasonable; it seems only one is anti-Korean (btw, Sperwer, I hope you check your self…your postings demonstrate some ‘issues’). Just because many people show you examples and reasons of why they think you could be mistaken doesn’t mean they are ‘out to get you’ or out to get Korea.
Get a thicker skin, and listen to reason.
Perhaps the ESL sector or English-Korean dictionary publishing world is doing the great Korean nation a disfavor. How do “criticism” or “disagreement” somehow always get translated as “hatred” in Korean cyberspace?
Sine qua non:
My only “issue” is with people like Pawi and those who use pycho-babble like “issues”. I’ll be gunning for you next; watch out.
Professor Rhie could always try the classy Jimmy Carter response to his recent troubles with the Tribe — “Fuck off, lying Jews!”
And then there was China….
Peter Hessler wrote, in his excellent book about his Peace Corps experince in China, that the Chinese thought ALL Jews were smart(Einstein etc etc) BUT also got the biggest kick out of Adolf Hitler !!!???
lol at the spoof editorial in #48!
Sperwer:
I used to word ‘issue’ as a euphemism. I was trying to be polite, out of, what now appears to be undeserved, respect. To go around talking about using a gun on a person is psychopathic. It’s not any kind of joke; no other posters thinks something like that is funny, just you. That’s mentally unstable psychopathy. I hope the explanation of the psycho-babble word ‘issues’ is clear.
Furthermore, your sense of writing style is tortured and forced. It doesn’t work. It’s flat. Get a new style. To wit:
“…critics here in the lists who, despite occasional disparaging asides, generally ground the tire spikes they scatter in the way of overinflated Korean pretensions on the less sanguine ground of some neutral principled position or other.”
Mixed metaphors like this communicate as clearly as a passed-out drunk, mumbling to himself on the floor.
kimchi2000:
There. Does this help? The criticism isn’t reserved solely for Korean issues. Westerners are open to criticize wherever there are problems. This isn’t an anti-Korean website. It’s just open and frank discussion. (Now, kimchi2000, let’s watch Sperwer continue his ‘discussion’ with some weak, over-wrought, pseudo-intellectual poseur remark about how smart he *really* is.)
Somebody’s having a bad day, it seems.
This story is about to get much, much bigger. The Anti-Defamation League just held its national conference this week in Florida.
Thousands of politically-connected organizers, tossing around copies of Rhie’s garbage…. Rhie, prepare thyself for the fury of Abe Foxman.
to robert
i read my post and i must admit that it was wrong of me to compare ur blog to occidentalism. it was very low of me. occidentalism is a site with bad intention, urs is not.
This story is about to get much, much bigger. The Anti-Defamation League just held its national conference this week in Florida.
Thousands of politically-connected organizers, tossing around copies of Rhie’s garbage…. Rhie, prepare thyself for the fury of Abe Foxman.
If this causes some genuine soul searching and a sincere acknowledgment of the evils of this type of claptrap I’m converting. Of course getting that out this lot will prove that the Jews do indeed rule the world
Kimchi2000 my comment was for tit for tat for your calling this a hate site. I only wanted you to wake up – visit Daum or Naver for examples of genuine, untrammeled vitriol.
Anyway I thank you for your concern for my emotional well-being; I’m puting on some Alice Coltrane now to help me achieve some inner peace.
Erm… Obviously, when you were taking ‘pseudo-intellectual diatribe 101′ and ‘two-cent words 101′, you should maybe have taken ‘common idioms 101′ as well. ‘Gunning for’ doesn’t actually mean what it sounds like – it means ‘challenging’, ‘taking on’, ‘confronting’ and so forth. Sperwer wasn’t saying that he would be coming to your house with a .30-06 anytime soon.
(Doh… sorry for the double-post. I hit ‘post comment’ accidentally (damn Windows!) I’m really not meaning to pull a baduk or wjk.)
Before you, criticize, another person’s, writing, style, you might think, about, laying off the, unnecessary, and misplaced, commas.
jiwonsi
id suggest drinking a cup of green tea, it’s good for ur mind and body and i hope ur journey of finding inner peace goes well.
i have visited daum and naver but u must understand that those people are not grown ups and they are pulling things out their ass and they know it. they are bunch of teenagers who need to find inner peace within themselve. can u honesty compare daum and navar to websites like stormfront.org or occidentalism.org? the key difference is that navar and daum people are not serious but stornfront and occi people are dead serious.
Zonath:
The commas used were grammatically necesary.
Also, refer to Spewer’s comment #47 where he makes reference to using a gun with the suggestion of assaulting a person; and that poster even failed to correctly spell the name brand of the shotgun.
Actually, the commas weren’t necessary. I’ll give it to you that they may have been properly used (though gratuitous) commas, since I don’t have any of my usage books handy at the moment. They sure do scan poorly, though.
Good of the Weisenthal Center.
Having said that….
“Now if a foreign ‘professor’ at a uni can be fired (Contract not renewed) for writing stuff about Dok Rocks (Not Dok-Do as Do means island) that Koreans disagree with, what are the consequences if a Korean Professor employed at a University, writes racist, and slanderous books, that are condemned internationally.”
First of all, the analogy would be more appropriate if the Korean writer was working and living in Israel (which he isn’t). I think it would be NO surprise if he WERE to be working in Israel that the university in Israel would have fired him immediately….or at least not renewed his contract. But as he is in Korea (not that that excuses his actions), the situations are NOT comparable with what happened to G. Bevers.
I am still gonna make the point that you don’t go to a country and harp on and on again about a sensitive issue that felt nationwide and then complain later that you got either fired or didn’t have your contract renewed. Bevers is not a martyr, and to those of you who try to present him as one, you lose your own credibility when you argue about other cases that ARE legitimate.
Imagine going to teach English at a university in Saudi Arabia on a contract-basis and then slamming the Koran or Mohammed. Suppose you got fired or didn’t have your contract renewed. IS THIS A SURPRISE????? Imagine a Korean coming to teach chemistry at a university in the US on a contract basis and say that this Korean said the US deserved the attacks on 9/11; the Korean lecturer does not have his contract renewed. IS THIS A SURPRISE?????? I’ve seen AMERICAN lecturers and professors in the US get fired for much less than this, so imagine what would happen to a FOREIGN teacher teaching on a yearly contract basis in the US (not that I often hear about yearly contracts among university lecturers in America, which explains why a lot of them don’t even last a year) if he WERE to touch on a raw nerve of the American public. I doubt he’d last.
You don’t hear too much about this, though, because foreign lecturers in the US NOT on tenure are not stupid enough to do this. Leave it to someone like Bevers to pick on a sensitive topic to Koreans and then harp on it over the years online in PUBLIC and then acts like a martyr because he didn’t have his contract renewed.
I accept JK’s broader point about rejecting Bevers/Rhie analogies, but it is troubling and even pathetic to see nationalistic Korean sabre-rattling over an insignificant set of islets that it ALREADY CONTROLS AND IS NOT IN DANGER OF LOSING equated to heartland fanaticism over a/n (allegedly) great religion. What is troubling is not this apt-enough comparison itself, but the fact that it can be legitimately made about the values and views of a first-world country.
Rhie’s problems would appear to be the tip of the iceberg in Korean academia, where it seems there is no shortage of quacks and cranks in every field. (Not that Korea is alone here.) For starters, think of the various “peace” movement PhDs writing for OhMyNews or the large ranks of North Korea scholars influenced by Bruce Cummings who somehow missed the memo from the USSR archives.
Sine qua non:
ur such a fucken asshole u grammer nazi why dont u shut up and mind ur own or imma shot ur ass with a fucken gat!
There now. Occupy yourself with criticizing that little post and stop bothering others with your inane, precious chatter.
wel sed, colontos!
colonhole drunkenly slurred: “ur such a fucken asshole u grammer nazi why dont u shut up and mind ur own or imma shot ur ass with a fucken gat!”
kimchi2000: See? Now if you see something like directed at Korean culture, you can be pretty confident that that would be an anti-Korean post.
Dokdo=Koran and Mohammad? Geography=Religion?
The problem is, Gerry makes his case dispassionately using original sources. The Korean argument against him is based on popular sentiment, not reason. It’s like fighting fire with gasoline.
Oh, and Rhie Won-Bok is a complete idiot.
Because, you are judging Korean thru a blog or blogs …
I hope Rabbi Cooper’s letter to Gimm-Young Publishing did not read yet by Ms. Eun-ju Park nor Professor Lee(Rhie) with misspelled name as it seems a formal complaints letter … It’s Lee(Rhie) Won-Bok not Won-Bak.
Or was this Rabbi misspelled name with intention to annoy Prof. Lee? Maybe practicing “an eye for an eye”?
And he could see the sections of publication about Talmud, Jewish education system and culture which get more interest to Korean parents than Monnara Iunnara in any bookstore in Korea.
Is he?
WTF???? award: Or was this Rabbi misspelled name with intention to annoy Prof. Lee? Maybe practicing “an eye for an eye”?
GOD NAMES NEXT “CHOSEN PEOPLE”; IT’S JEWS AGAIN
“Oh Shit,” Say Jews
Jerusalem (SatireWire.com) Update — Jews, whose troubled, 10,000-year term as God’s “chosen people” finally expired last night, woke up this morning to find that they had once again been hand-picked by the Almighty. Synagogues across the globe declared a day of mourning.
Asked if the descendants of Abraham shouldn’t be pleased about being tapped for an unprecedented second term, Jerusalem Rabbi Ben Meyerson shrugged. “Of course, you are right, we should be thrilled,” he said. “We should also enjoy a good swift kick in the head, but for some reason, we don’t.
God conducts blind drawing for next Chosen People
God conducts blind drawing.
“Now don’t ask such questions until you watch the news, or read history, or at least rent ‘Fiddler on the Roof’.”
Much of the world’s re-blessed Jewish community shared that feeling. “It’s always been considered a joke with us. You know, ‘Please G-d, next time choose someone else,’ ha ha,” said New York City resident David Bashert.
“Ha. Ha ha,” Bashert added. “Shit.”
According to a worldwide survey of faiths, not a single group expressed an interest in being chosen, and the only application submitted before last night’s filing deadline, on behalf of the Islamic people, proved to be a fake.
“Somebody filled out a form and signed our name to it, but I guarantee it wasn’t us,” said Imam Yusuf Al Muhammed of Medina, Saudi Arabia. “I’m not going to say who it was, but the application was filled out in Hebrew.”
“Oh, don’t be such a k’vatsh,” responded Meyerson. “It’s only 10,000 years. Trust me, after a few diaspora, you would have gotten used to the universal hatred thing.”
Buy a Moses Tour T-shirt!
Due to the absence of voluntary candidates, God’s Law stipulated that the Almighty had to choose a people at random to serve out the next 10-millenia term. Elias Contreau, director of the International Interfaith Working Group, said he wasn’t surprised it came to a blind drawing.
“According to the Bible, God promised to bless Abraham and those who came after him,” said Contreau. “Who knows, maybe that sounded good at the time, or maybe ‘blessed’ meant something different back then, like ‘Short periods of prosperity interrupted by insufferable friggin’ chaos.’ Whatever, I think it’s safe to say that people didn’t know what they were agreeing to.”
Now they do, Contreau added, which he said explains why so many religions had lately been exalting God’s existence, but downplaying their own.
“We were not avoiding Him. We just told our parishioners that if Anyone asks, we’re out,” insisted Archbishop of Canterbury Dr. George Carey, who had called off services during February. “Besides, we weren’t the only ones. I didn’t see the Hindus raising their hands.”
“Now look, it’s like we told the ethereal vision who dropped off the application, ‘Sure, we have a strong shared faith and all that, but I wouldn’t exactly say we’re a ‘people,’ not really,’” recalled Hindu leader Samuldrala Swami Maharaj of Calcutta. “Plus, you know, I told him we had a lot of other commitments. We’d like to help, honestly. Another time, maybe.”
In Jerusalem, Jewish leaders said they will propose an amendment to God’s Law prohibiting a people from having to serve more than two consecutive terms. “Hopefully, G-d will hear our prayer,” said Meyerson. “No, wait, that’s what got us into this.”
Americans, meanwhile, expressed outrage at the decision, saying they had assumed they were God’s chosen people. However, explained Archbishop Carey, “It only seems that way because so many people don’t like you.”
“First of all, the analogy would be more appropriate if the Korean writer was working and living in Israel (which he isn’t). ”
Not really. Bevers’s attacks were on what he thought was incorrect arguments and historical data concerning a territorial claim. His posts were directed at adults. Whereas, the book in question perpetuates racial stereotypes, good and bad. The comic book is directed at children. In other words, if you wanted the analogy to be correct, the professor would have gone Israel but, instead of perpetuating stereotypes, would have questioned Israel’s claims on the West Bank and Gaza.
Correct; taking down a precious pissant tosser like SQN wouldn’t require anything bigger than a .22LR.
1. anti semitism in kora is not a problem since there is no anti semitism in korea.
2. even if you could prove that there is widespread hatred for the jew (which there isn’t because koreans don’t think about jews), i think korea would represent a low priority for israel and her aliies. contrary to the expat’s claim, koreans are not the new nazis of the world nor are they terrorists.
3. a korean man writing a book with stereotypes about jews does not represent the korean population. for those who say it’s about sales volume, i’d say two things:
one, sales volume doesn’t confirm that koreans hate jews anymore than the sales volume of ‘kenkanryu’ (a bestseller injapan) confirms that japanese hate koreans. two, just because someone buys a book doesn’t mean they agree with it.
4. did i already mention that koreans don’t think about jews or israel?
5. what’s the differenc between gerry and lee? well, let’s talk the real world here: gerry chose to write about the sacred cows of the people who gave him a job. he wrote about this openly. he paid the price for bitting the hand that fed him. lee doesn’t live in israel and the consequences of his book will have little impact on his life. lastly, looking at it objectively: was gerry tenured?
6. i think it’s important for the wiesenthal center to know that the guy who runs this blog provides links to guys who run hate sites. hey marmot, david duke is polite. did you know that?
7. nothing i’ve written on this board is anti semitic. the example marmot provided was clearly directed at the expat’s hypocrisy. but sly of marmot not to provide context.
8. go home people. there’s nothing to see here.
9. how do i feel about korea’s ban on pornography? well, how do you feel about people going to jail for saying the holocaust didn’t happen? i read just the other day that yet another man is going to be put into jail in germany because he denies that it happened. free speech doesn’t always mean free speach.
1. The book contains stereotypes and traditional conspiracy theories aimed at Jews, which are anti-semitic. The book was written in Korea by a Korean, so it’s quite obvious that anti-semitism exists in Korea.
2. Nobody is claiming that. Many of us are foreign residents of Korea, parents, educators and journalists, so it’s only natural that we are concerned about this book, in my case because it is aimed at children. I don’t think most parents are aware of the contents of this book when they get it for their kids. They see that it was written by a professor and automatically think they it is educational.
3. see number 2.
4. That’s besides the point…then again, it would explain why it took foreigners to bring any attention to the contents of the book.
5. Lee wrote a book that will/was published in many countries, so the point is moot. I’d say the book makes Koreans look bad.
6. Whatever, linking to another site does not consist an endorsement of its content.
7. Have you ever been to a concentration camp? It was offensive, regardless of your intentions.
8. You wish.
9. It was a rethorical question. I was suggesting that it is hypocritical to claim that pornography is banned in order to protect young minds when such books are published.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....l_accosted
it’s the white man who does things like this. Not the Korean man.
there are some horribly twisted people in America.
for all the hate Koreans are accused of displaying towards the Japanese, I don’t think you can compare with select white Americans who paint Nazi symbols every single year around major US cities, yearly. Lee Won Bok is wrong, but don’t bury all Koreans with him.
Just posting so that wjk wouldn’t have 8 consecutive posts, then I saw this:
Finally!
Fair enough.
“1. anti semitism in kora is not a problem since there is no anti semitism in korea.
2. even if you could prove that there is widespread hatred for the jew (which there isn’t because koreans don’t think about jews)…”
There is a distinct prejudice against Jew in Korea. That IS undeniable. Although I have heard and seen it for over 10 years now (And, no, I am not even Jewish), I am now beginning to wonder if this book isn’t the main reason for it in the last couple years.
a-letheia,
is that why South Koreans still yearly visit Israel, to tour the Holy Land, even post 911 ?
http://photo.chosun.com/site/d.....00410.html
totally unrelated, but interesting. Worth a look.
wjk
I didn’t say every Korean is openly prejudiced. It is here on a certain level. What tourists do is meaningless.
wjk,
And I might add that the same prejudice is much more clearly evident in the US. I am not accusing Koreans of anything worse than Americans.
wjk, I also don’t think you can compare a few thousand white American crazies – in a total population of 300 million – to millions of Koreans who are indoctrinated from kindergarten, if not earlier, to dislike Japan. The kind of indoctrination that may have contributed to a Korean man – not a white man like the one who attacked Elie Wiesel – attacking amd injuring a couple of Japanese kids in Seoul a couple of years ago with a hatchet, to come up with another individual case.
What is worse? A fringe group of malicious, sometimes violent idiots most people (including most white people) recognize as being human trash OR a general population of pretty decent people (not burying all Koreans, OK?!) who – more through ignorance than malice – seem prejudiced against a neighboring country? Probably the fringe lunatics are worse – they have no excuse – but that isn’t to say that the latter siatuation is OK.
I don’t think most Koreans give a damn about Jewish people either, but I don’t like the idea of millions of kids being targetted by comic books that sum up a people or country in such an inaccurate light. It reinforces a notion, one that already exists, that stereotyping is alright. If there was a best-selling comic book called “The Koreans” that was produced for this purpose in North America I would condemn it as well. Except, of course, that wouldn’t happen in North America in 2007, would it?
To answer comment #94:
1. Uh, OK, if you say so. But let me ask, just because I’m curious, would you agree that it exists in Japan?
2. Did anybody claim that Koreans were the new Nazis, or even that there was widespread anti-Semitism in Korea? I certainly didn’t. But that’s not the point. If Korea can expend so much energy making sure the world knows the horrors the Japanese inflicted on them (to the point of the Foreign Ministry involving itself in the curriculums of classrooms in Massachusets), then certainly, a Korean university professor producing popular student-use comic books that teach age-old anti-Semitic canards could be a point of concern, no?
3. Again, nobody is comparing the level of anti-Semitism in Korea with anywhere else or saying that all or even most Koreans hate Jews. Obviously, anti-Semitism, to the extent that exists in Korea (which, admitedly, is probably limited to a small number of intellectuals influenced by European anti-Semitic thought and a few but probably widely held stereotypes born more of ignorance than hatred) is NOT the same as anti-Semitism in the West, which is deeply rooted and much more intense. It is interesting to note, however, that when the series on America was released, it hardly raised any eyebrows. Now, to be fair, when the Korean translation of “Far from the Bamboo Grove” was released two years ago, some Korean media that reviewed it actually liked it. It was only after the book became an issue in the United States that the netizens went wild, crashed the publisher’s site and forced the company to discontinue publication of the translation.
4. Did I mention that most Americans don’t think about Korea or Koreans (other than, perhaps, the North Korean nuke issue). Are you suggesting, perhaps then, that Koreans—including government organizations like the Foreign Ministry, for example—shouldn’t take an interest in heightening awareness of, say, the Comfort Women or the Yasukuni Shrine in the United States?
5. Or, to put this slightly differently, Gerry made the grievous error of attacking a “sacred cow,” namely, Korea’s right over a couple of rocks in the East Sea, while all Rhie did was try to perpetuate in the minds of Korean youth anti-Semitic conspiracy theories that have been used to do such things as stick six million Jews in German ovens. Or, in other words, while Dokdo—or the Comfort Women, or Yasukuni Shrine—is a “sacred cow,” anti-Semitism and the Holocaust are not. Which would be fine (OK, it wouldn’t be “fine”) if Koreans dealt with overseas indifference toward their own suffering under Japanese colonial rule with the same nonchalance. I think we can agree that’s not the case, however. If an Israeli had published an educational comic book justifying Japanese colonial rule in Korea or opened up a “Comfort Women” bar in Tel Aviv and the Koreans found out about it, I can assure you, it would be an issue.
Your point about tenure, however, is a good one.
6. Don’t throw the term “hate site” around so freely—it cheapens the word. Occidentalism might be fairly criticized as “anti-Korean,” but it’s no more a hate site that the Fighting 44s or OhMyNews. And at any rate, the fact that I link to it doesn’t mean I agree with it. I also used to link to Bluejives’ blog when he was blogging and Babble On. Heck, if you had a blog, I’d probably link to it.
7. I linked to the comment to show the context. But the wording of your comment—even if directed at the “hypocricy” of the expat—would seem to certainly suggest that believe Western sensitivity toward anti-Semitism to be misplaced.
8. Clearly many Koreans thought so, as the book has been on the stands for several years and nobody has said anything. One might wonder, however, if a well-regarded American illustrator publishes a popular educational comic book series that justified Japanese colonial rule whether there would be “nothing to see” and we should all go home?
9. For the record, since you seem to ask, I disagree strongly with European laws regarding Holocaust denials. Holocaust deniers are still assholes, but when you stick them in jail for denying the Holocaust, they became asshole martyrs to free speech. I also disagree with Korean porn laws and, although you didn’t mention it bit it is more relevent here, Korea’s National Security Law banning some forms of pro-North Korean speech.
wjk is quite a bit like President Rhono…at least his line of reasoning is:
“I cheated but not as much as the other guys so it is ok.”
“is probably limited to a small number of intellectuals influenced by European anti-Semitic thought and a few but probably widely held stereotypes born more of ignorance than hatred) is NOT the same as anti-Semitism in the West, which is deeply rooted and much more intense.”
I agree with the above written by Mr. Koehler.
I think I am nothing like Pres Rho.
Besides, Goat, for your line of reasoning attributed to me, I’d have to be an anti-semitic person. Far from it !
I’m just defending South Korea. Incoherent defense, maybe.
actually, i think i share quite a bit of things with Pres Rho unfortunately, but so do a lot of people. And, I never said
…thus it’s okay. You said that, Goat.
No, it’s not.
If the uni simply had let Bevers go, this might be a coherent perspective (but see below);, but they didn’t and it isn’t. They axed him because he pricked one of Korea’s many hot air balloons. In other words, they penalized him because he exercised his right of free speech. That’s not a tenure issue. It’s a straightforward employment discrimination issue.
Moreover, as alluded to above and covered in more detail in the commentary at the time of Bever’s termination, under Korean employment law, Bevers was entitled to be rehired because he effectively was a permanent employee. I subscribe to Holmes’ view of what a “right” is, so that doesn’t mean that the university couldn’t fire him in some metaphysical sense, but that they are to be held responsible in monetary damages for doing so. Again, even under established Korean law, the western notion of tenure has got nothing to do with the matter at all; anyone who works any job in Korea for more than a couple of years has the legal equivalent of tenure.
Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong point either. Not once did I say that Korea nor Koreans in general were anti-semitic.
Chewbacca defense for the win!
“http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070210/ap_on_re_us/wiesel_accosted”
That’s terrible.
“it’s the white man who does things like this. Not the Korean man.”
That’s racist…and not quite true. Remember the 2002 subway incident in Seoul?
I don’t have a problem with anyone damning Israel on the issue of Palestine or America on issues like Iraq. But the Jewish Conspiracy tone of Rhie’s latest bumwad is simply an extension of his earlier diatribes. It isn’t the first time this guy has spouted nationalist-agenda tripe disguised in a pop culture medium. After all this is the same ‘professor’ who penned Korea Unmasked back in 2002.
In Unmasked Rhie mixes common fact with convenient omission and heavy helpings of outright bullshit in an attempt to persuade the foreign reader of Korean superiority and to excuse Korean nationalistic excess. It’s peppered with the insinuation that Koreans have historically had it tougher (let’s not mention Belgium, Cambodia, England etc.) and as a result are more tenacious, hence superior to all other people. Of course, he maintains, this has enabled them to independently make Korea the best at this, that and the other and to do it faster and better than anyone else (again he omits mention of Western/Japanese technology transfer agreements, patent infringement, education, aid and so on).
For example, did you know the Miracle of the Han happened in islation of the Western Industrial Revolution and Western/Japanese technology handed on a platter (insert drawing of ’shocked’ big nose pointing at Korea’s per capita GNP growth exclaiming “that’s inredible!” on page 110, 149), that “POSCO is the world’s largest steel company” (page 149) (it isn’t, and wasn’t even in ‘02), that Koreans are the hardest-working people in the world (well, if 16 hours of online chat on the job is ‘work’). On and on it goes, page after page, hoping to sucker the gullible. He even devotes three pages to the ‘fact’ backed by the atomic structure of capsicum, that Koreans have the “world’s spiciest food” which he suggests foreigners simply can’t eat (page 83).
It gets tired fast. His drawing style relies on overcaricature and his research simply wouldn’t pass muster at high school level. But most ironically in light of his recent ‘Jewish conspiracy’ diatribe he likens his own ‘Korea Unmasked’ to Speigelman’s Pulitzer winning ‘Maus’ (page 235). Yeah, as if.
It speaks volumes about Korean ‘universities’ that Rhie’s position is secure while Gerry Bevers is shown the door for daring to make serious enquiry.
” “it’s the white man who does things like this. Not the Korean man.”
That’s racist…and not quite true. Remember the 2002 subway incident in Seoul?”
/ I apologize for the comment, Someguyinkorea. And to everybody.
“The Goat
Posted February 10, 2007 at 1:11 pm | Permalink
Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong point either. Not once did I say that Korea nor Koreans in general were anti-semitic.
Chewbacca defense for the win!
”
/ I don’t think your reading comprehension is that great, either, Goat. I mean, I never said it was you who said that. I said it was tomas, who turned out to be aka wiesunja, aka marka, all at the same time.
Those who are truly great need not talk about their greatness.
Ergo -> nobody is
“His drawing style relies on overcaricature and his research simply wouldn’t pass muster at high school level. But most ironically in light of his recent ‘Jewish conspiracy’ diatribe he likens his own ‘Korea Unmasked’ to Speigelman’s Pulitzer winning ‘Maus’ (page 235). ”
That’s the same guy? I remember reading an article about this book that mentioned the comparaison to Maus. It thought at the time that it was quite a bold statement, to say the least. Maus is, after all, an intricate work of art and quite possibly the best comic book(s) ever published.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus
LOLOLOLOL(OL!!) Now you’re just pulling stuff out of your ass. There’s no way that book can say that. After all, Korean food isn’t even as spicy as good Mexican food, much less Thai or Ethiopian food.
Sperwer, while it is a matter of record that the university did not renew Bever’s employment contract, you should possibly reconsider your attribution of what motivated them to follow that course.
According to Bevers, he received a letter from the school’s president in which the president postulated that the decision was likely reached as a result of Bevers blogging. Yet while that could mean that the university administration was reacting directly to what he had written, it could also mean that they were concerned with the possiblity of public fallout as a result of a netizen campaign.
I do not mean to defend the school for what it did, yet it seems at least possible that that their actions could have been an attempt at self-preservation rather than malice. Indeed, considering that Bevers blogged on this topic for some time, yet ran into trouble with the school administration only after pressure from netizens was brought to bare, an alternative expalnation for the the adminstration’s motive is at least equally plausible.
Leaving aside the issue of legality, I have not seen nor heard anything that could provide a clear sense of their motive, and it seems premature to state one at this point.
Zonath,
Yeah, that’s pretty silly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper
Yes, Ee Won Bok is a complete idiot.
Yi Won Bok is a complete idiot because he generalizes about an entire culture of people and cuts himself off from their insight, friendship and compassion.
Rhee Won Bok is a complete idiot because he is a relic of 1930’s Nazi Germany and a dead age.
Lee Won Bok is a complete idiot because he publishes hatred, prejudice and outright lies that a child with the most basic education would know were wrong. Like, um, Adam Smith was Jewish.
You know who the only bigger idiot than him is? His publisher and anyone that defends him.
Pawikirogi, your statement that Koreans do not think about Jews is hilarious. This would of course mean that Koreans had no understanding of the Middle East, European and Asian history, the theory of relativity, and, um, Hollywood. Koreans think about Jews, whether or not they know they are Jewish, all the time and their ignorance in this regard only makes them look bad.
Zonath
Posted February 10, 2007 at 3:44 pm | Permalink
He even devotes three pages to the ‘fact’ backed by the atomic structure of capsicum, that Koreans have the “world’s spiciest food” which he suggests foreigners simply can’t eat
LOLOLOLOL(OL!!) Now you’re just pulling stuff out of your ass. There’s no way that book can say that. After all, Korean food isn’t even as spicy as good Mexican food, much less Thai or Ethiopian food.
I wish I were but I quote (page 83 Korea Unmasked,Gim-young International) “The food is served hot, so hot that it’s easy to burn your tongue and mouth (drawaing of ‘astounded’ whitey exclaiming “How do you expect me to eat something that hot!”) followed by a Korean dude downing a bottle of Mexican Tobasco sauce and saying “You call this spicy?”, followed by (page 84) “Red Pepper ….c18H27o3N makes peppers hot” and the proclamation that “Koreans have been making it hotter and spicier so that today they have the hottest food in the world!” and “Westerners don’t eat spicy food”, and finally the the warning (page 85) that “Any hotter and my mouth and stomach will explode!”
Rhie must have been a sheltered lad and obviously never heard of Western stuff along the lines of Blair’s 16 Million Reserve (by far the hottest stuff on earth, named for it’s 16 million Scoville units, compare kimchi’s 15,000). As you mention Mexican, Indian, Tex-Mex, Thai, Sechuan and Iranian are all much hotter than any Korean foods I’ve had. Guess Rhie is just a victim of his own propaganda, which comes thru time and time again in his publications. Don’t buy from this turd and make him richer, just borrow a copy or look for it online.
SomeguyinKorea
Posted February 10, 2007 at 3:29 pm | Permalink
“His drawing style relies on overcaricature and his research simply wouldn’t pass muster at high school level. But most ironically in light of his recent ‘Jewish conspiracy’ diatribe he likens his own ‘Korea Unmasked’ to Speigelman’s Pulitzer winning ‘Maus’ (page 235). ”
“That’s the same guy? I remember reading an article about this book that mentioned the comparaison to Maus. It thought at the time that it was quite a bold statement, to say the least. Maus is, after all, an intricate work of art and quite possibly the best comic book(s) ever published.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus” ”
As far as I can tell, SomeguyinKorea, this is the same Rhie Won-bok of Duksung Women’s University in Seoul. Rhie is a propagandist with a boring graphic style, while Speigelman’s ‘Maus’ and Sienkiewicz’s ‘Brought to Light’ were/are world class cutting edge graphic novels worthy of their international acclaim. Notice it’s Rhie’s translator in the inset of Korea Unmasked (Loius Choi) and nobody else who is comparing Choi to Speigelman. A nationalist git who likes to blow his own horn, it seems. Surprise surprise.
gbnhj:
Well, as noted, it really doesn’t matter what their motive was; under Korean law Bevers is entitled to serious damages for violation of his right to continued employment.
But if you want to talk about motive, the only reliable evidence — indeed the only evidence, practically, since witness testimony of Koreans is justifiably regarded by the Korean courts as having no credibility — is the letter. The only reasonable conclusion that a trier of fact could derive from the letter is that Bevers was penalized for exercising his right of free speech.
Moreover, even admitting arguendo, the possibility of the motive that you ascribe to them – abject, pusillanimous submission to the will of the mob – doesn’t exonerate them. It’s a distinction without a difference; the devil made me do it defense. Whether they sought to muzzle Bevers because they thought it right or expedient, they acted to silence him. Hence, that was the motive for their action, legally-speaking; their “true” intentions, whatever those might have been, are irrelevant.
“with a boring graphic style”
That’s an understatement.
PS. If you want to see talented comic book artists, check out the works of Jim Lee (huge celebrity in the comic book world, I’d be surprised if you’ve never seen at least one of his drawings), Jae Lee, and Mike Choi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Lee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jae_Lee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Choi
Sooooo, apparently the British have the hottest food. Who’d a thunk it.
Maddlew
Posted February 10, 2007 at 6:59 pm | Permalink
“Sooooo, apparently the British have the hottest food. Who’d a thunk it.”
Blair’s sauce is from New Jersey, not the UK. That said even a good Birmingham vindaloo is hotter than maeuntang or the like. In contrast to Rhie’s boasts I find Korean food is actually pretty bland (not to mention repetitious) when you get down to it.
“Sooooo, apparently the British have the hottest food. Who’d a thunk it.”
The Dorset Naga pepper, yeah. Don’t know if I can get the seeds, but I’ve actually considered growing it and the Naga Jolokia pepper here to make ‘gochu karu’ that I’d package in baggies for restaurant owners to sample every time I’m told that I shouldn’t order yuk-kae-jjang because I’m a foreigner.
Sperwer, again, my point does not touch on the aspect of criminality. Rather, I simply contend that
(as you wrote in #110 above) is not the only possible explanation for their doing what they did. You describe it as ‘a distinction without a difference’, yet it is nonetheless a viable alterate explanation.
I might add that it is an explanation which does not involve a description of axes or balloons in order to account for why Bevers was not rehired. Of course, I do not beleive that you were speaking literally, but wasn’t your figurative description really an attempt to state what you believed ‘their “true” intentions, whatever those might have been’ actually were – irrespective of the relevance of those intentions in terms of the law?
(Or is that just hot air? I’m just axing…)
It was in jest. I was refering to the wikipedia account of the hottest pepper which was apparently grown in a lab in England. I doubt if they snuck it into a shepherd’s pie.
Thank G-d for the Wiesenthal Centre.
Actually, most messanic Koreans I know (a lot) are sympathetic to the plight of the Jews. They do not believe that Jews “control the media and banks” because if they were that powerful and mighty, why did they suffer for more than 1800 years under oppresive rulers? Why not buy back the land from which they were unjustly expelled from; the land of their ancestors? The suffering of the Jewish people is the most obvious proof that Jews do not control the media and financial institutions.
Also this has nothing to do with Gerry Bevers. If an ESL teacher in, let’s say… Taiwan begins to say “Taiwan belongs to red China!” on his blog, the consequences are obvious. This is turning out like the argument on wikipedia on the naming of the Dokdo page. While some users say it should “comply with Wikipedia NPOV rules thus change the page name to ‘Liancourt Rocks’” it attacks users who say the same rule must be upheld to the “Senkaku Islands” page. BTW, robert, you even said occidentalism had a tone you didn’t like- racism. why should any korean institution employ someone who agrees with anti-korean thought?
also i disagree with people who say koreans hate everyone but themselves.. you should not judge the majority on the minority.
“Blair’s sauce is from New Jersey”
Blair’s sauce has so much pur capsaicin added to it, you can’t eat it on its own, you must add it to food. Therefore, it’s a condiment, not food.
“Hey Mr. Jewie Jewstein, please enjoy Korea’s wonderful well-bing cuisine that’s too hot for you to eat. Don’t explode or you’ll lose all your money.”
Reckon that summarizes Prof. Rhie’s work?
“also i disagree with people who say koreans hate everyone but themselves.. you should not judge the majority on the minority.”
Sure. Unfortunately, little gets done to prevent the xenophobic and ultra-nationalistic minority from attempting to ruin it for everyone else–mainly the good, decent and open-minded Koreans and the expats who enjoy their company.
that is same with most countries.. is anything done to phelps? is anything done to the ultra-nationalist japanese? neo-nazis?
not that im saying these people should be accepted. these people should not be tolerated.
osted February 10, 2007 at 9:21 pm | Permalink
“Blair’s sauce is from New Jersey”
Blair’s sauce has so much pur capsaicin added to it, you can’t eat it on its own, you must add it to food. Therefore, it’s a condiment, not food.”
I always say if you can it it, it’s food and you can eat plenty of condiments (if you like) on their own. However,16 Million Reserve is pure capsicum and hence the hottest you can get. Lots of other peppers are plenty hotter than Korean gochu (pretty mild on the pepper scale) but maybe guess gochujang is a ‘condiment’ as well.
Regardless, the other Western and Eastern hot sauces (condiments if you like) are much hotter than their Korean counterparts. True ‘foods’ like good Tex-mex beef, a 24 hour lamb Vindaloo, Thai larp or Chinese Sechuan noodles are simply much hotter than Korean watered down ‘hot’ sauces. When Koreans tell me their food is hot I generally have to hold a muffled laugh. Most Korean foods (bibimbap, nengmyun, kimbap, etc. are simply bland). Maybe this is why many Korean tourists bring ramyeon to Thailand or the USA, they’ve finally realized the Americas are the home of the real deal.
Madllew, got it. Don’t think that would go well in a Shep pie, but perhaps in a good curry.
Fly,
Ever go for a big steaming bowl of mustard?
Sorry, but Blair’s 16 million reserve is a condiment. You can’t eat it on it’s own unless you want to cause chemical burns to your digestive system.
How about having a spoonful of strychnine? It’s unlikely that you’ll live long enough to ask for seconds, but you can eat it at least once, so it’s food, right?
Okay, this thread has gone off track…I was going to add something about dogs eating their own…
gbnhj:
Sure, there are as many alternate theoretically possible explanations as there are buddha worlds. In fact, though, the only explanation supported by credible evidence in this world is the letter. It was written by the Uni President. Despite the flim-flammery of his circumlocutions, or maybe because of them?, it’s dispositive of the issue of what the university meant to do when it fired Bevers,i.e., punish him for shooting off his mouth. That’s good enough for me. I’ll leave the counterfactuals and alternate realities to the heirs of Gene Roddenberry; it’s bad television and it’s even worse jurisprudence.
That would be nice. Then I wouldn’t have to take Dogbert’s money for the ticket to San Diego (although that wouldn;t be bad in itself), and bust a cap in bird boy’s bird brain, and confirm the self-proclaimed Fifth Element’s humorless pyschobabble about my “issues” – which are mainly that I’m currently out of stock on Hi-Shock hollow points.
I’d put wjk under moderation simply for ignoring multiple requests to stop double, triple and quadruple comments.
Sheesh. ‘Condiments’, ‘foods’….whatever! Who cares? Ipso facto you can eat bondaegi and dongjip but would you call those foods? Depends on the consumer doesn’t it. The point is that all spices are condiments but it’s the spices which make food hot.
Why does any of this matter? In the end Korean food is mainly salty and certainly not close to being the world’s spiciest and hottest as Rhie claimed. Right? Right.
“Yep, and anyone who finds it offensive should be free to criticize it.”
Well, it’s probably not a good idea for you to do so, as it would be like a thief criticizing stealing by other people.
Well, I’m glad to know now who I can ‘thank’ the next time I’m in a South Korean restaurant and I pop some (not very spicy) kimchi in my mouth right before the astonished gasp from those sitting nearby and the inevitable question ‘Isn’t it hot?’
I’ve found that once the novelty wears off, Korean food comes in exactly two basic flavors: red and brown. I blame the Japanese.
..and of course, if you think Korean food is bland now, just imagine what it must have been like 300 years ago, when they didn’t even have chili peppers in Korea. One shudders to imagine it. But hey, at least Korean food isn’t as bland as British food.
Sorry to inform you about this,otoritakeo, but we are not juding the majority on the minority. The majority of Koreans are exactly like how he describes.
Fly,
Chili peppers are food, chili powder is a condiment.
Tomatoes are food, ketchup is a condiment.
Condiment: A preparation used to flavor food…
http://en.mimi.hu/gastronomy/condiment.html
Condiment: A savory, piquant, spicy or salty accompaniment to food, such as a relish, sauce, mixture of spices and so on.
http://www.epicurious.com/cook.....ry?id=2024
“that is same with most countries.. is anything done to phelps? is anything done to the ultra-nationalist japanese? neo-nazis?”
Can’t say much about Japan, but in the West neo-nazis and, in America, Phelps are completely marginalized and seen as lunatics. If Fred Phelps penned a comic detailing his views, it would first of all never be published, and even if it somehow was, it would not be bought and would be universally condemned. Which is quite different from what is happening in Korea with Lee’s garbage.
Fly, number 113 raises some good points about ‘Korea Unmasked’. Friends suggested I read it as a primer to the culture when I first came here in 03 and, oh boy, did it stink. His fisking suffices for the grievances I hold towards it.
Regarding the Bevers/Rhie comparisons, the other obvious link is that both are operating outside their chosen teaching discipline. Bevers is/was an English teacher cum historian whilst Rhie, last time I checked, is a professor of Graphic Design masquerading as an historian/sociologist. And whilst the former does a good job of exposing the historiographic distortions surrounding one of Korea’s sacred cows, the latter should stick to designing name cards and wedding invitations.
Sperwer,
Your statement in #142
simply confirms that you only want to talk about what could be legally held, instead of what actually occurred. Yet I wonder how you could prove, based on the evidence at hand, that
as you originally stated in #110. While the letter could show that they sought to punish him after he wrote about Dokto, it does not offer unassailable evidence that the university sought to punish him because they disagreed with the position he took.
Events do not occur in isolation, and – again – I did not try to ascribe a legal basis for their actions, although it seems that this is all you you are willing to talk about. Therefore, I would say that while I would certainly agree that myriad motives are possible, the one about which I wrote was hardly fantastic.
In fact, while it might not be provable in a legal sense, it stands a liklihood of being the actual cause. I state this because I also work at a university, in a position superior to Bevers’, and spend part of every workday in conference with its faculty and administrators. While I do not claim to know why Bevers former employers did what they did, I can say that the motive I have suggested represents a plausibly certain explanation for what occurred within an organization of that type. I am not an attorney, and take no comfort in knowing that what is legally provable may not be what actually happened, and it is for that reason that I discussed motive.
You mentioned Star Trek’s creator, and show strong preference for a logical vessel which allows space for only one. Given this, we should all take care to choose well between a Picard (a legally unprovable yet nonetheless plausible explanation) and a petard (an untruth that is nonetheless held as truth in a court of law). Surely it preferable to be hosted by the former than hoisted by the latter.
Someguy, I KNOW. My point (again) is that once you add that condiment or spice to the food, it’s all going down your gullet and is then food. Without the chili powder, salt, cumin, or insert-spice here, most food would be boring.
Zonath, “red and brown” yes, exactly. I’ve also wondered how bad K-food must have been before peppers arrived from the Americas. Pretty bland I imagine (like some of the European fare in days of olde, only worse). Some of the stuff like bondaegi, chicken asses, seaweed and dog seem like they must be holdovers from the famine years of long ago. But a lot of English food is far from bland and is it’s certainly easy to find hotter and much more varied food in London than in Seoul. You do know that chicken korma has replaced fish and chips (admittedly due to the scarcity of fish) as England’s national dish, yes?
aaronm, Spot on. I don’t know whether Bevers was trained in the social sciences or humanities prior to his English teaching career but there are scores of degree-holding historians, etc. teaching English in SK. Regardless he was doing some decent, balanced research and it’s pathetic that his ‘university’ punished him. Oh well, more loss to them I say.
In contrast the good Dr. Rhie gained his social science ‘credentials’ in the form of an bachelor’s architecture degree from SNU and a Designer Diploma from Munster in Germany. fair enough but I’d suggest he perhaps focus on improving his drawings and leave the story-telling to someone a little more qualified and honest. Perhaps in the future Dr. Rhie should give Mr. Bevers a fact-check call before committing ink to paper?
Gerry Bevers still appears at the Gachon website:
http://www.gachon.ac.kr/03_uni.....ulture.jsp
#116 Even a cornered Marmot can become ferocious. You called Bullsh*t with your usual flair!
I presume it’s pawikirogi you’re threatening to shoot, Sperwer. According to the rootkit on his computer, he’s still accessing the Internet through Nitelog (an honest-to-goodness BBS!) in Monterey. I’m going to be in Monterey (well, Pebble Beach) at the end of March. Maybe we can meet and snap a pic together.
Whose bag are you going to be caddying Brendon? Watch out, you may end up as a lawn ornament in Pyeongchangdong.
Just great — I play to his fears, you play to mine.
Brendon’s greatest fear is probably getting paid the same amount of money as a hagwon teacher—worse yet…being a hagwon teacher.
The strange thing is that Koreans used to respect Isreal and tried to imitate her. Koreans believed Jews to highly intelligent, and books were written teaching Korean mothers how to education their children the Jewish way. Also, before South Korea established diplomatic ties with China, Korea compared her security situation with that of Isreal. However, after establishing ties with China and after doing more and more business with Middle Eastern countries, Korea not only started distancing herself from Isreal, but also started talking negatively about her in the media. I think that has been going on for the last ten or fifteen years.
Also, Koreans seem to also have a strange, maybe innocent, fascination with Nazi Germany. I know the Nazi bar that used to be in Sinchon has been talked about here, but has the following video been discussed?
Interesting Fashion & the Nazi Salute
Ah, Gerry, Gerry, Gerry….there you go with your generalizations again about Koreans that, when taken as a blanket statement, is often be wrong.
As for critical reporting about Israel, this has increased in the US as well. Shall we make generalizations about the way Americans (aside from the conservative evangelical crowd) have changed in their attitude toward Israel in the past several years? Yeah, I didn’t think so.
Mr. Mao,
“Dokdo=Koran and Mohammad? Geography=Religion?”
So you’re implying that Koreans as a whole are going too far to take Dokdo so seriously. I won’t necessarily disagree with you on this one. Having said that, what is your opinion of an American English teacher who writes about Dokdo for YEARS online and who also obsesses over it to the point that he risks his job? Tell me THAT, Mr. Mao. What does that say about the American teacher?
“The problem is, Gerry makes his case dispassionately using original sources. The Korean argument against him is based on popular sentiment, not reason. It’s like fighting fire with gasoline.”
Um, I have actually read much of gbevers’ arguments that Dokdo belongs to Japan. Believe it or not, I want to hear his arguments based only on FACTS. However, his argument, after presenting SOME facts, of questionable accuracy, and then leaving out OTHER facts that argue a side that is different from his own already reached conclusion (that Dokdo rightfully belongs to Japan), Gerry Bevers then says statements like “I believe” or “I think” to show his interpretations of his “facts” before presenting his final conclusion. In other words it’s not based really on FACTS but also on his ASSumptions.
As for Gerry’s ORIGINAL sources, I agree with you on that one. After all, using imperial Japanese sources as well as Bruce Cumings (the guy who once claimed the Korean War began when the US and South Korea invaded North Korea) could be called ORIGINAL. I guess Gerry could be even MORE original by using the tabloid newspapers like the National Enquirer or The Star.
unrelated to much of the post, but what about Gerry Bevers claiming more than once that King Sejong started the comfort women system, and taught this comfort women system to the Japanese?
versus
and, regarding Japan, there was a time in the mid to late 80’s, when the yen looked better than the dollar, and some predicted that Japan would financially become stronger than the US. Interestingly, this is the exact time when anti-semitism had a surge in Japan.
http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/11kowner.htm
Bevers says,
I think this observation is true. Perhaps unrelated, but Japan was doing it at the heights of its powers. When it felt that no one could oppose them. Interesting, is it not? Incoherent, also, yes.
Wait a minute. What was that video G. Bevers put up? No, don’t deflect this question. Don’t tell me that G. Bevers wears garters or that he got his maps from some hermit in a cave somewhere who thinks the center of the universe is his navel. What the hell was that? Don’t tell me he was able to get his former students to dress up like that. That was a hell of alot of students. And who was that woman giving the “Zeig Heil” salute? What planet is she from? Is February fascist month?Please, I want to hear you spin this. Give me some kind of a rationalization. Anybody?
wjk,
Since you bring up Ewha University and comfort women…What are your views on Kim Hwa Ran (Helen Kim), who is seen by a hero of Korean feminism by some, and one of the worst Japanese collaborators by others who say she’s encourage many women to become comfort women? It was a big debate over this in 1998 or so, but it seems to have died down since.
I know little or nothing about her to say anything, but she deserves praise for what she did right and condemnation for what she did wrong. Just like any other person. I assume condemnation directed towards her counts as one of the many “proofs” that comfort women existed, versus the Japanese govt’s position and the US Army soldier (who was a Japanese American from the internment camps) report on comfort women?
Similar to the lady I know nothing about, Chosun, Joong Ang, and Dong A newspapers are accused of having acted as yes men for the Japanese Empire, encouraging Korean men to die for the Empire’s war efforts. I think the newspapers deserve praise for educating the public, sometimes working for independence and the welfare of the people, while deserving just blame for purchasing fighter planes for the Empire from newspaper profits and writing editorials to make men go and join the Japanese Army, in many cases to kill fellow Korean men fighting for the exact cause. Like Lt. Okamoto in Manchuria.
Anyway, if I would defend them, I would say they were forced to do some of the things they did. Afterall, the govt was of the Japanese Empire.
Do you think you would have done any differently in their shoes, someguyinkorea? I can’t say I would have done any differently. The human instinct is to save his own skin first.
exact opposite cause.
Sorry, I am really trying to restrain any multiple succession comments.
Gbnh:
Please don’t feel slighted. Your entry took the silver. As I indicated earlier, it’s the most plausible of the hypotheticals.
But it’s still pure supposition – your testimony about what might happen at your university notwithstanding. No matter how much we might agree that it’s possible (”likely” is too weighty to be supported by such weak struts), the fact remains it has no factual basis in Bever’s case.
That’s important, not just in a technical legal sense, but because demonstrable fact is the only sound basis for any kind of practical response — although in this instance, I would argue that the best practical course of action for Bevers happens to be to get these mooks in front of the labor board and/or the court; even a Korean one has to do the right thing by Bevers because of the labor law.
You may be so enamoured of your proposed explanation of the Uni’s “true” motive that that doesn’t cut it for you. Unfortunately, we don’t live in a world of perfect transparency, nor are we endowed with the sort of omniscience that enables us to know these things and to make them convincing without mundane proofs. If you get the skinny from the Dalai Lama on the short course to the latter, or make it to the Tsushita Heaven of the former, please let me know/beam me up. I dream of such things; but I also drink coffee in the morning.
“Do you think you would have done any differently in their shoes, someguyinkorea? I can’t say I would have done any differently. The human instinct is to save his own skin first.”
Well, that’s a poor excuse for what she allegedly did when you consider the fact that some foreigners, like Dr. Francis Schofield, risked their lives to end the Japanese occupation of Korea.
sorry to derail and it will be my last comment for a while, because of certain situations, but Matt Shakuhachi of occidentalism.org has said many times, Koreans showed no resistance to perhaps 4000 Japanese soldiers trying to militarily occupy Chosun.
Maybe.
Then, why did the March 1st uprising occur so quickly? After about 15 years or so since occupation? They must have been super happy to pull that kind of stunt.
4000 Japanese troops with modern guns versus 10000 (the maximum expected Chosun dynasty troop level barring a tremendous war) would have ended in the Japanese army’s total victory with 90% + casualties for the Chosun army. Why? It didn’t take the Spanish a huge army to conquer the world, either. They had guns, machine guns(the Japanese did), and gunboats. Just like the Japanese, and the Japanese probably with better equipment. Good enough to sink the Russians. Futile attempt and the leadership decided to give up, so no armed resistance, I reason.
Turn that to modern armed conflicts between govts and anti govt factions. Give any man a gun, and it’s an equal fight. An unfair fight favoring the natives, nowadays. No more of the brave charging Indian warrior wasting his life on a foot soldier’s rifle shot.
Do you know why Jews circumcise their boys? Because they want everything 20% off.
LOL Railway
Didn’t know that Rhie or Lee or however asswipe spells his name was a graphic designer–you certainly couldn’t tell from his books.
Indeed Michael! He is at best an imbecile.
SomeguyinKorea
Posted February 11, 2007 at 10:22 pm | Permalink
Brendon’s greatest fear is probably getting paid the same amount of money as a hagwon teacher—worse yet…being a hagwon teacher.
Can you blame him? Soap and toilet paper is often missing from their lexicons
Sperwer,
I agree with most of what you’ve written in #168 (well, with the notable exception of how you’ve written my ID): you’re right in saying that ‘likely’ goes too far, and that Bevers’ should call for a review of the matter by the labor board if not a court. I also agree that his former employer is unlikely to provide him with a full and complete description of what happened unless compelled to do so; in furtherance of that idea, I would say that there is no guarantee of this even if they were to appear before a magistrate. Regardless, Bevers really ought to do it.
Yet if my description is hypothetical – and it certainly is, for as I have clearly stated, I don’t have direct knowledge regarding how his employer came to their decision – it is no more so than yours. While the letter lends a timeline to the events, its language does not make definite your supposition that the events happened in that order because they disliked Bevers’ ideas.
Your hypothesis may bring Bevers money, but may not bring him any closer to the truth. If a discussion of the truth is deemed to be without reward, then by all means he should head toward a courtroom, for while he may not find the truth, he may at least find some money.
Despite your (continued weak) attempt to link my ideas with the extraterrestrial, I am sufficiently grounded as to recognize the need he may have for money. Yet I imagine that, after receiving his money – less the requisite fee for an attorney, of course, – he may still want to know why it happened. His possible financial gain will not be so great as to erase that question, and he will be left to continue guessing. Indeed, we are doing so now, although perhaps you do not agree.
In short, I agree with your idea regarding a practical response, but that does not equate to an understanding of motive, which relevancy is maintained in that the question will remain even after the magistrate rules.
You remarked that I got the silver, and we both agree that Bevers should get the gold. Sperwer, I’ve always thought of you as an intelligent and interesting person, but your continued allusion that my ideas are ‘spacey’ really only deserves the bronze. That we might disagree, even pointedly, is alright with me – I think that people learn a lot through such discourse. As I said, I sincerely like and respect what you write on threads here; let’s still be polite with each other, even when we disagree.
I somehow got a hold of this guy’s comic book on how Koreans are different from us waygooks. The best part was how Korea had the spiciest, hottest food in the world, which is too hot for us poor waygooks.
The guy is all about rehashing comfortable stereotypes which require no critical thinking–hence his popularity here.
171. Railway,
I mean, really.
176. Wedge,
Yeah, we discussed several dozen posts back the British obsession with vindaloo so spicy that it makes Korean food look like traditional British cooking.
Someguy–You’re right, I neglected to read the gazillion other posts.
gbnhj:
Sorry about dropping the “j” last time; just a typo.
Concur, except with the “unless…” Korean courts couldn’t so compel Bever’s former employer – unless maybe they brought back the rack and red hot pokers — since Korean litigants routinely lie (the courts expect it, so don’t credit witness testimony, indeed rarely even take it) and since they have no effective power to order the production of documents. If a criminal action were commenced, the prosecution could conduct a document raid, but I imagine it’s way too late for that, the shredders having gone into operation long since this affair became a topic of semi-public controversy.
I didn’t claim that my reading is metaphysically airtight, only that it’s the best, i.e., the most reasonable, reading of the evidence, based on what the letter actually says and what one can reasonably infer from what is actually said and by taking (loosely speaking) “judicial notice” of the facts of life here down the rabbit hole. It’s much more than just the source of a timeline.
Our difference reminds me of the parable about the man wounded by a poisoned arrow reportedly told by Shakyamuni to Malunkyaputta in the epnoymous sutra in response to M’s incessant questions whether the gods exist or not, the universe is infinite or not, the soul and the body are one thing or not, etc.
According to S, when the man is taken to the doctors by his friends, before he lets the doctor take the arrow out and cleanse the wound, he does not ask who shot him, whether his assailant was of the warrior caste, the priestly caste, the merchant or agricultural caste or an outcast; he does not ask after his name or family or inquire whether is tall, short or medium in height or black, brown or golden complexioned; he does not hesitate to know what village he is from; nor does he inquire about the kind og bow with which he was shot, or the kind of arrow or what kind of feathers or point it has. Because he would die before all these matters were conclusively settled.
Just between us girls, I happen to share your suspicion that the university’s behaviour may be at least in part attributable to the typical failure of nerve of Korean elites to lead. But as “Hoot” Hooten says in Black Hawk Down, “It don’t matter what I think” on this score; in this case, because we are no more likely to get to the “ultimate truth” of the matter – assuming there is one — than Malunkyaputta was to get an answer to his misplaced metaphysical questions from Shakyamuni. There just isn’t any data. I hope Bevers is smart enough not to risk his sanity by obsessing about “what really” happened, and I have infinitely less reason than he does to do so.
Again, that’s not to say yours isn’t an interesting hypothesis, just that it is one on which the already known and likely known facts of the Bevers case don’t seem likely to shine any light. In the form that I’ve suggested — the gutless propensity of Korean “opinion-makers” to really be opinion followers — it’s even more interesting as a general topic of inquiry. But, alas, the facts of Bevers’ case don’t support any conclusions about it one way or the other. And without the facts, as a topic of discussion, it’s just another self-licking ice cream cone.
BTW, I didn’t say your views were “spacey”; that’s your word. I’ve found your various posts in the commentariat to be unusally literate and sensible. I’ve just been having a little fun and tweaking your nose because I think your speculations about Bevers case are a bit of a bridge too far. If I thought you were just another of the usual suspects, I’d be carving your initials on one of my infamous trademark
rounds“issues”.Dear Gerry:
May I write to you today as one human being to another? May I say some things to you? Won’t you give me a moment and listen? Gerry, is all this crap worth it? Is proving Dokto belongs to Japan so important to you that you would allow it to adversely effect your personal life? Gerry, you’re now a middle-aged man. Let this go. You love korea. I know it. Don’t you think it would be easier enjoying all the things you love about Korea instead of spending your time stewing about all the things Koreans get wrong? You’re starting to be malaffected by your own actions, Gerry.
Get over this woman. Find another woman and fall in love again. Perhaps at the same time, you’ll fall in love with Korea again.
I wish you well, Gerry. I really mean that.
Pawi
Quick, Mellors, pass me the other gun; I’ve got the quarry bracketed at last.
Wow – owing to the tone of nulji’s letter, he seems to be trying to find some comfort in Gerry’s great bosom. Sure, they’ve had their disagreements, but Gerry’s bosom has got to be ample enough to shelter such an emotionally sincere man as nulji. Anyway, I’m hopeful – I’m sure we all are. God bless you, nulji.
Sperwer, your points above are well taken. BTW, are we ever going to get together for a beer?
“…Gerry, is all this crap worth it?….”
Desperate pleadings vainly attempting to support an already lost argument, standing from a fundamentally untenable position.
Indeed, the emperor has no clothes.
Well, although the ‘fired for Dokdo’ story is a juicy one, this could be the real reason Gerry is out of a job…
http://times.hankooki.com/lpag.....310230.htm
ah, sperwer, you’ve threatened to murder me now three times. btw sonagi, i guess threatening violence doesn’t rank right up there with calling someone a bitch, huh? what’s the matter, sperwer? another korean guy make fun of you last night? still steaming over the fact you fourth class? tsk, tsk, tsk….
did you like my post to gerry? i hope you did.
love, pawi
Silly pawi, Sperwer doesn’t really plan to kill you. You do really think I’m a bitch, but like I said, coming from you, it’s a compliment.
Poor pawi, he called me a bitch and HE sulks because I don’t defend him.
#
Sonagi
Posted February 13, 2007 at 9:15 am | Permalink
Silly pawi, Sperwer doesn’t really plan to kill you. You do really think I’m a bitch, but like I said, coming from you, it’s a compliment.
Poor pawi, he called me a bitch and HE sulks because I don’t defend him.
Feelings of embarrassment abound.
The last couple of comments have been kind of bizarre….and childish.
Gbnhj:
email me @ sperweractual@gmail.com.
“Gbnhj:
email me @ sperweractual@gmail.com.”
You two are finally getting a room?
Look at that nulji — Sperwer is not afraid of people knowing his e-mail address.
I gotta say, I have mixed feelings about this whole affair. On the one hand, Rhie is coming out with some stuff so extreme and absurd that he will almost certainly find himself in an ADL shit storm, and it seems to be justifiable.
But the ADL has a history of really nasty attacks on people who merely satirized Jewish culture or were flippant toward it, etc., and so it’s really hard for me to get behind anything they do. I remember Frank Zappa got hammered by them pretty hard for writing the song ‘jewish american princess’ and he had to battle it out with them in the national news media. Good ol’ Frank, he was always able to hold his own at least and totally wipe up the floor in a debate at his best.
But it was a joke song and it was so funny and extreme; and the ADL had 0 sense of humor about it. Zappa said something like, ” You can’t have a group tell you that only one version of any ethnic group is the correct one that we all have to adhere to and toe the line with.’
Imagine that .. an ethnic group trying to force the whole world to see it in only one, generic, positive light.. HEY! Wait a minute! HAHAH
One more thing.. On re-reading, I saw the flowering debate about comparing Bevers to Rhie.
As an American, I’m more worried about freedom of speech in our own universities than I am about same in Korea. Lawrence Summers, I believe was his name, was until recently the president of Harvard. He got canned because he suggested that differences in genetics MAY contribute to the dominant numbers of men in the sciences.
Hit a soft spot he did, old Larry, and it was sayonara. My fellow Americans who blog here: how can we criticize the Koreans on this issue? Only if we agree that two nations’ wrongs don’t make a right.
In America, you can’t question certain tenets of national dogma without risking your career. It’s no better than here.
I went to a University in California, and a dean of social studies was canned there because she made a flippant comment about a Filipino holiday, or a Malaysian holiday, saying that it wasnt’ important enough to warrant a special event, if I remember right. She was fired for this. We certainly need to clean our own house.
Easy. Who cares how they do it in the United States? The fact that the United States axes profs for offenses against political correctness doesn’t make it OK in Korea. Maybe they fire profs in Moldova for addressing sacred national cows in a critical manner. Maybe they don’t. Either way it’s not really relevant.
Certainly the good Professor knows better. I mean, “The Jews are the barrier of progress”? If we had any gray area/matter here, one might have a leg to stand on. This stuff is blatant hate mongering. The real sickness is the targeted audience!
Someguy:
Naw, we’re going to get together and come over and invade yours. Got a panic room, do you?
relayer77,
You should meet wjk…you will get along fabulously.
“Naw, we’re going to get together and come over and invade yours. Got a panic room, do you?
”
Panic room? Must be an American thing.
Panic room= A place to sweat like Ryan Seacrest at the opening of Brokeback Mountain.
Goat,
Maybe. But stick around if you think I’m an apologist for Korea.
“Easy. Who cares how they do it in the United States? The fact that the United States axes profs for offenses against political correctness doesn’t make it OK in Korea.”
This appears to be quite an inane comment.
What, then, pray tell, doesn’t make it O.K. in Korea?
Sina que non wrote:
““Easy. Who cares how they do it in the United States? The fact that the United States axes profs for offenses against political correctness doesn’t make it OK in Korea.”
This appears to be quite an inane comment.
What, then, pray tell, doesn’t make it O.K. in Korea?”
Your response does not make sense as it is written. Robert is correct in that two wrongs don’t make a right and whether or not political firings happen elsewhere is irrelevant here on this Korea-centric blog unless someone is claiming that Gerry’s firing wouldn’t have happened in another country.
Actually, I agree with Sine qua non in what he wrote to Robert.
Whether it is stated or not, it seems that there is always an implied comparison between Korea and other countries on this and other blogs. And if it is NOT implied, I think a certain amount of relativism is necessary, ESPECIALLY if those specific things being complained about by foreigners in Korea are worse in countries other than Korea.
For instance, to use an admittedly ridiculous, but hopefully effective, hypothetical example: Suppose a Westerner living in Korea were to complain that Koreans, after they eat a certain amount of food, go to the bathroom and emit stinking crap from their butts. Then you get people like myself reading about this who are baffled by the entry on a Korea-related blog about this. Now even though a comparison with other countries and ethnicities has not been made, I think it totally appropriate to point out that people other than Koreans also take craps after eating a certain amount of food – and what’s more, those non-Koreans’ sh*t stinks also just as bad, if not worse.
Now imagine if someone wrote to me in response, “This is a blog about KOREA and KOREANS. Someone taking a crap in the US does not mean that crap from Koreans does not stink or is not wrong.” Agreed. But the point is, everyone, Americans, Canadians, Japanese, etc, does it [take a crap]. And it’s not necessarily a bad thing, either.
JK,
Your analogy is illogical. Defecation is a necessary bodily function. Firing teachers is an act of choice.
It was a mistake to bring Bevers into this Rhie thread to begin with, and now we’re just skidding downhill further….
OK, JK, let me ask you for argument’s sake whether you might, therefore, in a discussion of, let’s say, immigration in the United States point out that while the U.S. might be tough on immigrants, European nations can be even worse? Or in a discussion of U.S. environmental policy note that Chinese environmental policies are even more disastrous?
Slim, you’re right. Some people latched on to this because it clouds the real issue: the use of xenophobic and racist imagery in a popular South Korean book and the negative affect it has on its readers.
I made this point to Pawi a while back I will do it again here. The fact that the US axes professors for politically incorrect statements is incidental. This is my home. I want it to be as good a home as I can possibly make it. To say that the point made in this blog about the inappropriatness of a teacher’s termination is somehow nullified by the fact that the US is prone to the same injustices is illogical. If I were an inmate in a prison and I made a true statement, the veracity of that statement is not diminished by my place of residence.
The point you often seem to be making is that we expats complain too much. Sorry, it’s what we do. It’s perhaps our greatest attribute. We question everything and we distrust almost everything. We would have laughed “fan-death” right out of the media. I’m sorry if you don’t like it. I was invited here and I’m not a tool in a closet. You can’t just bring me out when it’s convenient or when you find me useful. If I see something wrong I will point it out.
By the way, I still haven’t heard what the deal was with that video Gerry Bevers put up. We’re talking about an anti-semetic comic book which is targeting youth and then I see images of students nancing about in ultra-nationalistic garb. I think it might be pertinent. Hello? Is this thing on?
The thing is, jk, many Koreans loudly _do_ claim, online and off, that their crap does not stink, while everyone else’s does. In the meantime, the rest of us are wondering who dropped those bombs distinctly redolent of garlic and fermented vegetables. Not un-understandably, this annoys a lot of people who are tired of this baseless braggadocio and widespread distortion of history as well as current affairs.
This is why sites like this and Occidentalism exist, as a sort of balance.
First of all, dogbert, as another commenter once noted, while I may disagree with Robert Koehler on many issues, I must say that he runs a pretty decent site. But I classify Matt’s Occidentalism as a hate site and clearly an anti-Korean one with no class whatsoever. Two different classes of blogs. One blog is like a mixture of CNN and FOX News (meaning it’s a combination of well-researched facts along with some strong opinion which I may or may not agree with), while the latter site is more like something run by David Duke and the KKK.
To Robert: Why NOT make a comparison of Europe’s immigration policies when discussing policies in the US and why NOT make a comparison of China’s environmental policies when discussing American environmental policies?
When you talk about issues in Korea, I am not always in disagreement with you (believe it or not). However, you mentioned one crazy writer in Korea and then decided to reference Gerry Bevers in your post, and one could say it was an implied statement about Koreans. Perhaps not from you as much as others who comment on this blog, but generalizations about the supposed anti-Semitism in Korea and the supposed unfairness that Bevers was let go from his job were made. Others with different opinions have mentioned the anti-Semitism in the West, and as for me personally, I think it was reasonable to talk about the job instability of university lecturers not on tenure in the US. In such a case, I felt a comparison with the US was okay.
That was all.
The people who call Occidentalism a “hate site” are those who are miffed that some people actually like to think for themselves rather than simply accept the erroneous VANK-ish platitudes that others would desperately like them to believe.
dogbertt, I can’t deny that Japan is more hospitable for foreigners and that its citizens display more socially responsible behavior. Everyone and anyone would probably find Japan more appealing, especially if they’ve been to both and don’t have any Korean genetics. I haven’t been to Japan, but if I believe the personal stories, Japan seems so.
However, occidentalism’s major point of existence is to ridicule things about Korea and for some reason it is solely made of white men(seems like white men who hold a grudge against a Korean or Koreans) and Japanese men who speak good enough English. Can you deny any of it? It’s an accurate observation.
Japan has its bad side, too. I won’t name any now.
[sic]
No derogatory comparison except by JK h-self.
Koreans — the blondes of Asia.
Yes, I can deny it, because you and many other Koreans/Korean-Americans comment on Occidentalism too. Can you deny that? You could not make an accurate observation if your life depended on it.
And for the record, I don’t give two craps about Japan or the Japanese.
Those Koreans and Korean-Americans who falsely label Occidentalism a “hate site” do so because they “hate” that non-Koreans dispute the self-stereotypes Koreans hold inviolate.
Dogbert, *sigh*, if you don’t see that Matt has a hate agenda with his site, then you are hopeless. I have no doubts there are those like yourself who suffered unjustly at the hands of many Koreans and who thus find some sort of solace to see some guy give it to Koreans…..but to do so by spreading lies and hate and by saying that the comfort women were willing whores and that the Rape of Nanking (something that happened to Chinese and not Koreans but is an example of Matt’s lies) didn’t really occur…. isn’t this a bit much? even by YOUR standards, dogbert???
BTW, some of Matt’s strongest supporters were equally critical of the US and our bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Plus some of them, using those infamous Japanese sources that Matt and the Japanophiles find so reliable, claim that President Roosevelt knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor long before Dec. 7. THAT’S who supports Matt’s site, dogbert, and THOSE are the kind of lies they are spreading. I would hope you wouldn’t be one of them. I guess lies and hate about Koreans are okay, but the same for Americans is not, eh dogbert?
dogbertt, the few that go there, including me, seem to go only to offer a contrary view, protest, dissidence, etc. I, for one, decided to never comment there again, like many others.
dogbertt, wjk, lots of tit for tat. But, how is it relevant to the fact that a Korean comic book ‘artist’ has essentially published a cartoon version of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....rs_of_Zion
“BTW, some of Matt’s strongest supporters were equally critical of the US and our bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Plus some of them, using those infamous Japanese sources that Matt and the Japanophiles find so reliable, claim that President Roosevelt knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor long before Dec. 7. THAT’S who supports Matt’s site, dogbert, and THOSE are the kind of lies they are spreading. I would hope you wouldn’t be one of them. I guess lies and hate about Koreans are okay, but the same for Americans is not, eh dogbert?”
OK, show us the link for that or shut up. Lying wont work.
Anyway, we are talking about the Korean comic book. I have not made any comments about it on my site, so would you stop stalking me?
Someguyinkorea,
Regarding your last comment: The Korean comic book artist is an idiot and a bigot against Jews. Plain and simple.
But not the entire Korean population.
And gbevers was STILL stupid to get himself fired…an effort that took many years of online activity on his part. I am mentioning him since he was mentioned in the original post.
Well, well, well….if it’s not the guy who comes on MY blog as KYOPOBOY. Talk about stalker!
BTW, Matt, they all think you’re a freakin’ loser who got dumped by one too many Korean girls.
“->My fellow Americans who blog here: how can we criticize the Koreans on this issue?
Easy. Who cares how they do it in the United States?”
“This appears to be quite an inane comment.
What, then, pray tell, doesn’t make it O.K. in Korea?”
“OK, JK, let me ask you for argument’s sake whether….are even more disastrous?”
No, please don’t ask me; just explain what moral paradigm you are using where 1) president Summers can justifiably be fired (for it seems that the U.S. justice system seems to agree in the just nature of Summers’ termination) and 2) notwithstanding this precedent, where a man like Bevers requires a form of justice tailored more specifically to his (or your) own personal sense of justice, such that Bevers’ similar fault earns him the right to hold himself above society’s sense of what is just and right? This is all along the lines of the other American professors mentioned above who were terminiated under substantially similar circumstances as Summers, as well as Bevers.
Everyone complains that in Korean society, people brag about how good and right the Koreans are, and that Koreans fail to recognize or openly admit their hypocritical failings. But people here are doing the same thing by failing to discuss the fundamental truth of this issue while continuing to say that their own idea is right, without any justification. To wit:
A: “Dokdo is Korea’s.”
B: “Why?”
A: “Dokdo is Korea’s!”
However, it seems that a lot of the Westerners commenting here are twice the hypocrite. Once for portraying an image of reasonablity, but conveniently failing to reason through the opposite side of an argument that they disagree with, and a second time for, at the same time, holding themselves up in self-righteousness over Korean people, whom they generally imply to be dumb and ignorant, while they themselves demonstrate the same failings they criticize in Korean people.
Eh?
PS: I don’t seem to recall arguing that President Summers’ termination was justified.
Maybe the Fifth Element is channeling a Newfie that’s spent too much time in the water
No answer, eh?
Summers agrees that it is not proper for him to lead Harvard.
“Maybe the Fifth Element….”
This adolescent name-calling was almost mistaken for a weak attempt at intelligence.
Good job, Spewer; you’re getting better!
someguyin Korea, basically he’s an evil Korean guy.
the tittat started somewhere relevant, but I guess we should relax more.
By the way, is it okay to mention that I saw a Japanese version in your link?
Naw, I wouldn’t want to compete with your posts for that prize.
some things I’m sure of Matt of occidentalism is that he pokes fun at Koreans, Muslims (he once said what happenned to our great country, Australia), doesn’t like immigrants, uses the word nigger a lot for an Australian, hates Bush, likes Democrats, likes the Japanese, and is very much interested in banging yellow skinned girls. I assume his only experiences were prostitutes.
by the way, Gerry Bever’s material is just a direct translation of material you can find in Japanese web sites.
It’s funny….I have been living here in Korea for over 18 months, and the entire country, even the so called cosmopolitan city of Seoul, reminds me of a small hick town in the US or at least the mentality does. Very xenophobic..and very ignorant of he outside world.
and a guy vouches for his handsomeness.
No, because I don’t understand quite what you’re trying to get at.
OK. I’m still not sure how Summers agreeing with his own dismissal makes me a hypocrite. Or—and allow me to quote your question:
Given how this question is seemingly directed at me, I ask, when did I say I believed Summers could be justifiably fired?
First off, is everyone complaining of that? I certainly didn’t. If anything, I feel Koreans—and I’m speaking in generalizations here—are overly critical of the country.
Again, I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. Or who you are directing this criticism towards.
PS: Bye, Garlic Breath.
I have never commented on your blog. How on earth could it be called stalking when I was just following a link from your blog to mine.
Who is ‘they’? Does it make you feel better to think that?
Do not stalk me, plz.
Occidentalism is not a hate site. Matt’s posts are factually based and despite what others claim, are not obsessively focused on Korea. The criticisms against him are without merit and usually devolve, a la wjk, to some slander regarding prostitution and Asian women, which says more about the insecurities and jealousies of his critics than anything else.
The fact is, those who complain about his site just cannot stand criticism of Korea, which they internalize because of their ethnicity. I mean, we have a poster on here, an educated man, who can still claim that Korea before Western contact was an ideal society where child abuse and other social wrongs were unknown. Of course, when you present the truth to people as deluded as that, they react irrationally. But that is not Matt’s fault and it certainly is not “hate” material.
Look at one of Occidentalism’s most recent posts. It features a cartoon strip (drawn by a Korean, btw) that points out Korean consumer products that are direct and unlicensed copies of Japanese consumer goods. Any of us who has been to both Japan and Korea can see the same. Of course, most Koreans don’t want “foreigners” to know that, much less point it out, so they get upset when someone does. However, that does not make what Matt is doing “hate” — it makes it “truth”.
HTH
Care to offer some links or context, wjk?
it will take me a month. But, I’m sure you know, if you’re not lying to yourself, Shaku.
Excuse me for interrupting whatever it is that’s going on here, but does anyone have any follow-up on the Wiesenthal Center’s complaint, like Rhie/Lee’s response, if any?
You know, not all Koreans are bigots. For example, the VANKers say: “We learn the lessons from the Jews and Chinese. Both succeeded to collect the power of their country people, whether they were in the country or abroad, into one, to vitalize various businesses to contribute to the national benefits and to influence a great deal of the entire world.”
http://www.prkorea.com/english.....rseas1.htm
Collect the Power, baby!
“Again, I’m not sure what you’re arguing here.”
“What, then, pray tell, doesn’t make [leaving a university position due to controversy] O.K. in Korea?”
This is the third time the same question has been posed, answered not once. It’s regretable that this fundamentally simple question couldn’t be understood.
Out of consideration of the difficulies some have with understanding, it is more simply: “Why is this situation an injustice?”
Again, there is no need to answer this question with another question or plead ignorace of the meaning of the question.
Dose anyone else feel like Sine qua non is trying to pull off a pseudo intellectual “ I know you are, but what am I”?
That train of thought never crossed my mind actually. Trying to negate discussion because it happens somewhere else was what I was getting at.
No offence but that is one of that is a pretty stinky steaming pile of crap you just put out there. The implications are often only there if you, as the reader, create them. Defensive much?
Second part – why? If the problem is more severe in another country – what difference does it make? The magnitude of the problem is less relevant than the steps that are being taken to eliminate the problem anyways….
Arrrrgggghhhh! Nobody has been saying that (about the population) except those that should be ignored!
My apologies. This is, however, partially because of the way you quote. You may wish to make use of the blockquote tag. It will make things easier.
Now, to answer the question, the reason Bevers’ situation is a injustice is because holding—and expressing—unpopular opinions about anything—let alone Korean sovereignty over a bunch of rocks —should not be grounds for dismissal, especially from a university position. But that’s not the reason I felt Bevers’ case was relevant here. The reason I brought Bevers’ case up was because he was dismissed for posting unpopular opinions. If Bevers’ blog posts claiming—horror of horrors—that the Korean government’s claim over Dokdo isn’t as strong as it would like to believe were beyond the pale for university employment, shouldn’t we expect Rhie’s full-blown anti-Semitic screed to earn him some sort of university reprimand? That’s all I meant to argue.
“Does anyone else feel…?”
If you want to talk about your feelings, go see Dr. Phil.
If you want to explain why this type of situation is an injustice, submit your idea.
Dr. Phil.? I guess I have been out of the States too long…
Sine qua non, how do you find hats?
Problem in Korea is that they have not reached the level of sophistication reached by Whites in the West when it comes to their hatred. One thing they have to learn is is to use words like Neo-Cons for Jews. Here’s a good place to start. There’s still alot to learn from Europeans and even Americans.
http://www.vanityfair.com/poli.....ntPage=all
http://64.233.167.104/search?q.....=firefox-a
Thank you for engaging the question.
However, the above quote is still circular reasoning: ‘It is an injustice because it is not [should not be] just.’
So, why should that not be grounds for a dismissal, (i.e., what reason)?
Is this a genuine question or a rhetorical question? Are you asking others’ opinions or are you indirectly suggesting you think Rhie needs to be reprimanded?
I can understand the value of indirectnes of a rhetorical question, but in this form of discourse [blog], clarification is in order when addressing the audience (i.e., whether for dialectical or rhetorical purposes).
Oi Vey
Masturbating poseur.
Sine qua non, is a champ.
Re Michael’s question that I almost missed.
If it’s only that letter of complaint it’s been ignored. Here is Korea, and it takes a creative approach to get a reaction. Years ago I was in the lobby of one the LG Twin Towers and found myself in the midst of an outraged family carrying a dead body. The funeral cum protest was happening and wouldn’t conclude until someone from LG upped the consolation money–the guy died on the job.
Change will require a few new 9-fingered Jews. Until then the kiddies will still recite in their pronunciation drills: “The Jews know how to choose the best business.”
Kids like songs, don’t they?
“I have never commented on your blog. How on earth could it be called stalking when I was just following a link from your blog to mine.”
First of all, Matt, like most blog writers, I have stalker tracer, and yes, I saw that you created the ID “Kyopoboy.” Not only that, you started to SUBSCRIBE to me.
So I called you out and embarrassed you on my own blog before booting you off my subscription list (like you got booted off of Yellow World for your hate comments). You then put up links to Occidentalism on the comments section of my blog, which I then deleted. After all, I know that whether you try to p*ss off people or please them by what you write online, the one thing you DO want is attention for your blog, and I am not going to help you there…anymore.
And I still say that your site and the Marmot’s Hole are two different classes of Korea blogs.
Now let’s see if you’re gonna lie again and deny you posed as Kyopoboy. The thing is, Matt, you and I at least know that you would be lying.
Robert (Koehler),
I think we will never agree about Gerry Bevers and all. And you KNOW what I think….that it is a mistake to reference Bevers in this post about a bigoted Korean author. We’ve already gone into the reasons why….so no need to rehash…
But I did want to ask you one thing as it relates to Bevers (so I guess I AM rehashing): What would you have done if, say, you were a university president in the US, and some lecturer from Korea who was working at your school spent YEARS writing things online, both at his own blog and at OTHER blogs that are more widely read on an international level, that the complaints of Americans about 9/11 were unfounded and that the whole thing was a Jewish or White House plot and that “it wasn’t all that bad” (something Bevers said about the Japanese colonization of Korea, which according to my own family members and their friends WAS that bad)? Never mind the presentations of these so-called “facts” (ie, bullsh*t), but this Korean lecturer then makes blanket generalizations in a condescending way that Americans need to quit being brainwashed and quit lying to themselves and need to change their education system, etc. to see the “truth.”
Now you’re the university president. This Korean lecturer is working on a yearly contract basis, and you have the power to see he gets his contract renewed every year or not. Meanwhile, most of the students at your school are American and are deeply offended by this Korean lecturer’s posts that he has been writing for YEARS. You even have students at your school who lost loved ones on 9.11 who are outraged. The Korean lecturers has, (perhaps intentionally?), gone out of his way to p*ss of Americans by saying how they are ungrateful, illogical, and incapable of seeing the “truth” as the Korean lecturer sees it. He has made enemies online and among the student population. You yourself are getting disturbed by the things this Korean lecturer says online (under his own name at that) and wonder WHY he would put himself in a position where he would be under fire by so many Americans.
But he has. Now, you have a decision to make….renew his contract or not. Has he done his job well? Well, that’s the funny question that one should ponder over. Has he taught well? Maybe. Has he gotten along with his students okay? Maybe many of them. Has he p*ssed off his students? Likely many of them with his posts. Is this his area of expertise and what he is teaching about at your university? No. Is he presenting just the facts or is he also making generalizing negative comments about Americans saying that Americans are irrational, illogical, and incapable of seeing “the truth” as he sees it (that 9.11 didn’t happen or was greatly exaggerated and wasn’t all that bad) which p*sses off many of the American students at your school? Well, as you know, Bevers in real life not only presented his “facts” (which really were not accurate by any means) but also made his generalizing remarks about Koreans and refused to give an inch even when presented with solid evidence that showed he was wrong. He also stated time and time again that Koreans willingly supported Japan (and I can tell you that this is ridiculous and would not be backed up by my family members who lived under Japanese colonial rule).
So then the question is, did Bevers do his job of teaching and getting along with his students? Here in America, you are rated by your ability to do your job and ALSO by how well you get along with people. I would dare say that a Korean lecturer in the US would NOT be doing his job well if he insisted on p*ssing Americans off by writing online in very public blogs under his own name that 9.11 wasn’t that bad and that Americans were actually allies of Al-Qaeda and that Americans are too emotional and illogical to see that. Even in America, people can be fired for what they write in their own blogs at home. And I don’t think this is wrong.
The years have gone by but this hypothetical bitter Korean guy is still writing his posts about 9.11 and about the supposed backward thinking of Americans. Not surprisingly, he is p*ssing off more and more Americans, including a sizable portion of the school’s students. It’s getting out of hand. Plus, you find this Korean lecturer to be a pain in the *ss in general.
Do you renew his contract? or not? It’s all your choice. But you have a pretty unhappy student population at your school. And this hypothetical Korean lecturer….well, he’s just a pain in the *ss.
What do you do?
Robert, I wrote all this out because you said you thought an injustice was done to Bevers. I disagree. That is all.
O.K., so there seems to be no injustice (according to any reason) in the situation where a professor is dismissed for expressing unpopular opinions.
Also, we have several examples (Summers, plus examples cited by JK in post #81 and relayer77 in post #183) that seem to imply, at least, that dismissal for expressing unpopular ideas is in fact just.
Now, we all live in a democratic society. Democracy means rule of the people, and it’s probably fair to say that the majority of the commentators here have democratic ideals well-ingrained into each of our individual psyches.
Therefore, let’s imagine the people rising up and voiceing an opinion, for example: “We disagree with that professor’s words. That professor should be fired.”
If democracy means the people should rule, and if the people say the professor should be fired, that seems like a form of democracy in action in the society.
I genuinely sympathize with Mr. Bevers and I hope he is doing well and continues to do well (while I imagine he is confronted with no major problems other than the inconvenience of having to find a new, readily available job).
However, it seems that his expressing his opinion about Dokdo (and the way he expressed it) yielded the end result that the people rose up and voiced their opinion that he should not continue to teach at his university.
Shouldn’t we applaud this democratic justice? [This is a rhetorical question.]
For myself, I think there is much relevance to discussing Mr. Bevers’ situation within the context of Mr. Rhie’s situation. But I think it would be better to work through the issue of Mr. Bevers’ situation and to see where and to what extent we all (commentators) agree, first.
BTW, I really enjoy the photos at the top of the pages of this blog. Well-done, blog-meister!
Blog-meister. The Blog-man.
Bloggy-blog-blogger.
The Blog-a-nator!
Also, JK: you say you are not an apologist, but you defend Korea so much. I’d like to meet you for a beer sometime.
Because it clouds the issue, perhaps? Unless there’s something to be gleaned by using one system as a model for another, then comparison is pretty much useless, and only goes towards fostering some sort of internationally-acceptable mediocrity. After all, what’s the point, when criticizing one system, of pointing out several other systems that do the same thing worse? Just to feel better about ourselves?
“Well gee, the tap water sure does suck here in LA.”
“Did you know they found radium in the tap water in South Korea?”
“No, I didn’t. Well, I don’t feel so bad now.”
“Wow, the streets sure do smell like crap here in South Korea.”
“Did you know that in Elizabethan England, the streets were basically open sewers and people liberally tossed the contents of their chamberpots out the windows?”
“…Jesus, that’s gross.”
So, in making these comparisons, are we really doing anything useful with our time, or are we just trying to stifle criticism and pretend that everything is just peachy? So sure, if you honestly want to compare the pros and cons of two or more systems, then by all means, bring the comparisons. But I don’t see a whole lot of that going on here, so don’t just deflect honest criticism by putting the commentator on the defensive. That’s just poor manners.
Zonath,
I think my hypothetical example about the Korean lecturer at an American university posting crap about 9.11 online at #252 was an appropriate comparison with gbevers’ situation. It showed, at least from my perspective, that a university president often has tough decisions to make, and when a lecturer is stupid enough to post inflammatory posts year after year under his own name IN PUBLIC….this is going to catch up to him.
So see, Zonath? Comparisons of situations in different countries are appropriate sometimes to give it perspective.
Jeez Louise JK, could’ve said all of that in a sentence or three.
In and out of class some of the best professors I had were ones with whom I didn’t agree. Challenged me, understand? What kind of education would it be if it were cumfy kitty cats and yummy lollipops?
By the way, slim, was this comment directed at any one, particular commentator or was this a slur cast upon all of the male comentators participating in this thread?
Or…perhaps this was a public confession?
You weren’t, so-to-speak, ‘coming out of the closet’ just there, were you?
It doesn’t really add much to the discussion though, does it? You could just have easily made the same argument without making that comparison.
Who’s masturbating and who’s hijacking a thread to strike intellectual poses here?
“It doesn’t really add much to the discussion though, does it? You could just have easily made the same argument without making that comparison.”
Actually, Zonath, it did (in my opinion, though not in yours). We have Westerners talk all the time about Korea’s obsessions with “those rocks.” First of all, I don’t think it’s just about Dokdo as it is about what it symbolizes: resistance to future Japanese aggression on Korean territory to avoid the mistakes of the past.
Secondly, who is anyone to say what a country and people are supposed to be sensitive about???? Americans are VERY sensitive when the topic of the 9.11 attack being ‘deserved’ is brought up, or how Spanish is becoming the second official language, or the effects of affirmative action. In Saudi Arabia, you don’t talk about the prophet Mohammad’s relationship with his very YOUNG bride in a disrespectful manner. In Thailand, you don’t talk sh*t about the king. Well, I suppose you COULD talk about these topics in a disrespecful manner….no one’s gonna kill you….but don’t expect to get your yearly teaching contract renewed.
The bottom line is that EVERY country and peoples have a sensitive topic that you just either discuss respectfully but usually avoid when in that very country. And why someone WOULD engage in such an emotional topic so dear to an entire country in such a provocative manner when he is working on a yearly contract basis is beyond me.
See, Zonath? Comparisons DID add to the discussion.
Uh huh… But that still doesn’t answer the question of should discussing a sensitive issue in an unpopular way be grounds for termination in any culture. While I can understand that every culture has its hot-button issues, that still has little bearing on the question of whether or not Mr. Bever’s dismissal was actually warranted (something about which I really have little opinion), or whether or not such attitudes about sensitive issues have a stifling effect upon open and frank discussion. The fact of the matter is that nobody’s talking about Thailand, or Saudi Arabia, and making comparison to those two (admittedly deeply flawed – but what country isn’t) countries just complicates the discussion without adding much.
Congratulations on showing us all that you really are a *hands on* kind of guy!
And, this thread is entirely focused on (from my approach, at least) Mr. Rhie, his job, and the nasty, vile, anti-Semetic libel he has managed to shove into the faces of the people of this society.
We may be close to winding up Mr. Bevers’ case and beginning to conclude with Mr. Rhie’s situation.
P.S. You probably won’t like the conclusion.
wjk:
Are these exact, direct translations, or are they paraphrases? regardless, these original source materials would be very interesting to see.
Are they in Japanese? English? Korean?
Where are the websites?
Bevers suicidally confronted and even pilloried one of the most deeply held beliefs of Korea. Rhie is profiting handsomely from reinforcing widely held beliefs of Korean society. It is worth remembering that while it was the Wiesenthal folks who cried foul, Rhie’s works seem to crudely stereotype all non-Korean races and societies — making them little different from the cartoon treatments of (fill in the people) found in the main daily newspapers. I expect Rhie will suffer nothing and might actually gain sales from this flap.
Quickest way is go to occidentalism.org, and ask Gerry Bevers or Matt. Slower way is to go thru the dokdo/takeshima entries on that site. Slowest way is to rely on me to find it again. My memory says, it was a Japanese site written by a Japanese person, but he managed to provide a full Korean translated version. It might be available in English. I’m not sure of that.
wjk, you are absolutely wrong. Gerry does not use Japanese sources. He uses Korean sources and Korean maps. Gerry does not read or write or speak Japanese. Gerry’s work is entirely original, and people are actually translating his original work into Japanese at this moment. Gerry’s view on Dokdo has nothing to do with Japanese arguments.
http://www.geocities.jp/tanaka_kunitaka/takeshima/
you be the judge.
http://www.geocities.jp/tanaka_kunitaka/takeshima/
This is COMPLETELY different. Gerry’s work is largely based on debunking the claims of a specific video, hence the title of his posts, “Lies, Half-truths, & Dokdo Video”, which has absolutely nothing to do with the site that you have posted. Accusing Gerry plagiarizing another persons work is LOW. You should apologise.
Putting “See” at the bottom of your post does not make your argument immaculate. You say it like “Ta Da”, I have created this foolproof argument. Doing that doesn’t enhance your point, it makes it sound like self-congrajulatory drivel.
See, you use way too many “ifs”. This results in speculation which again retracts from your argument. If my aunt had a package she’d be my uncle. The facts are out there. There are precedents. Do your homework. If you don’t half-ass your points those “Ta Da’s” sound more reasonable.
See, this is a blog. We are in open debate. Everything is rhetorical and nothing is. Asking whether a question is rhetorical is absurd. This isn’t the floor of the General Assembly. “Point of Order”. Please! Even if a question is obviously rhetorical, respond to it. Nobody’s going to come charging in with a red card and send you to the locker room. “I was first”. “That question is sacrosanct”.
See, you don’t have to tell us that it’s your opinion. You are being a master of the obvious. You are wasting space. That’s cyber-littering.
See, you don’t live in a democracy. You live in a representative democracy. It wasn’t a majority of people who came in and got Gerry canned. It was maybe 100 vitriolic cyber-thuglings. For arguments sake, let’s just say it was 1,000. That’s still less than 1% of the population. The Korean public didn’t come out en masse to get him booted. Most people are busy making a living and don’t have any idea who he is. Now if you think they should know and that you should make them aware and then they would have, as a group, been so outraged that he would have been sent packing, you tear down your own argument. Now you’re moving away from democracy and more resemble a lynch mob and anarchy.
See, Gerry’s job was not in the public secter and therefore not open to public petition. Should people that have nothing to do with the university, nor their family, nor will they ever have anything to do with the university have say in how that institution runs its affairs? Shall people start losing their jobs over public referendums?
See, your comparisons aren’t suitable. You have not clarified things you’ve clouded them. You are like that little hedge hog like creature who latches onto the guy’s boot in “The Gods Must Be Crazy”. You are just as persistent and similarly myopic. Now that’s an apt comparison.
See, I’m a moron for arguing with you.
What is completely different? Shaku? Matt? Same maps, same idea, same logic, same conclusion.
Why should I apologize? I went thru his site and Gerry’s stuff. No new ideas.
Maddlew, do you have a point to make that can be stated directly, without so much cyber-littering?
Fifth Element:
Do you have anything to contribute other than your utterly unwarranted supercilious sniveling?
Sine:
I like your insistence on reasoning logically very much.
I did not mean to imply that there was justice in the non-renewal of Mr. Bevers’ contract. It was very unjust. Why? Because of the principle of freedom of speech.
But does the Korean constitution protect freedom of speech?
PS We will never know precisely to what extent the blog factored into the non-renewal of Mr. Bevers’ contract.
Wjk wrote:
If I directly translate something, I put it in quotes. Also, I gather my information on Dokdo from a variety of sources, but they have to be sources that I can read, and I cannot read Japanese. If I am saying the same thing as a Japanese Web site, then that probably means that we both have found the same logical errors in the Korean argument.
Most of the problems with Korean claims on Dokdo are so obvious that anyone who has the ability to read Korean (and a little Chinese) and the time and desire to confirm the facts can do it. I am not claiming any special talent. It does not take much talent to see that Korean claims are based on flawed logic and half-truths. It is just a matter of fixing the logic and telling the other half of the story.
By the way, what I write about “Dokdo” is completely different from 9-11 conspiracy theories, so I do not think I should be compared to people who have lost their jobs because of their conspiracy theories. Actually, Korean historical claims on “Dokdo” and 9-11 conspiracy theories have much more in common than my writings. Besides, “Dokdo” history is just a hobby of mine, and I did not talk about or teach the history of Dokdo in my classes. I am an English teacher, not a history teacher.
“Most of the problems with Korean claims on Dokdo are so obvious that anyone who has the ability to read Korean (and a little Chinese) and the time and desire to confirm the facts can do it.”
Uh, Gerry, they are NOT obvious because Korea’s claim to Dokdo is stronger. Toadface has presented the evidence to show that. Hell, he’s even shown official JAPANESE maps from the 1600s that show that Dokdo belonged to Korea. It’s just you don’t want to acknowledge any of the information that contradicts your already reached conclusion that Dokdo supposedly belongs to Japan.
And regardless of who is right on the issue of Dokdo, you did present your arguments in a condescending arrogant way and made one too many negative generalizations about the entire Korean population. How did you think the people would feel reading this?
You used to do this at the Korea Times, Gerry….remember how you criticized South Korean politicians in 2000 for questioning the wisdom of Kim Dae-Jung’s Sunshine Policy? You called them petty jealous Korean politicians for questioning the KDJ’s policy and you asked, why else would they question such a sound policy that had already produced good results (meaning the summit with Kim Jong-Il in North Korea). I called you on it then and said that the opposition had a RIGHT to question the wisdom of appeasing a deadly enemy. You refused to budge on your negative generalizations of Koreans.
Then after the Sunshine Policy turned out to be a failure, you became its biggest critic, saying that you couldn’t understand Koreans for coming up with such an idea. It seems the Korean politicians opposing Kim Dae-Jung’s Sunshine Policy were right prior to the summit, and you were WRONG!!!!!!! As usual. Yet you stood on one side of the fence and made critical, condescending remarks about all Korean politicians for not agreeing with you (that the Sunshine Policy was good), then later you stood on the other side of the fence (after you had been proven wrong) and made critical condescending remarks about all Korean politicians again for supporting the Sunshine policy; never mind that you had been JUST AS WRONG as KDJ AND you were wrong to criticize those who opposed the Sunshine Policy.
Furthermore, as for Dokdo, regardless of who is right or wrong….WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY would you want to discuss the issue online, under your own name, and in such a widely read forum FOR YEARS knowing it was a sensitive topic for so many people?? And why make the generalizing comments about Koreans as being illogical, brainwashed, etc? Do you STILL think you got a raw deal about not getting your contract renewed? Toadface and others warned you that it would catch up to you, but you just had to keep it up. And Matt, Ponta, pacifist, etc. just egged you on since THEIR jobs weren’t at stake. I think ALL people, regardless of where they stand, will agree that it was stupid on your part.
Meanwhile, people like Matt and Ponta have jobs and you don’t. I hope you find one soon, but I hope you see that losing your job after talking FOR YEARS about some rocks really wasn’t worth it. You were the only one to have lost your job over it. Instead of viewing yourself as a victim of Koreans, why not see yourself as someone who got egged on unnecessarily by Matt, Ponta, and pacifist, and be accountable for your own actions? You’re no victim, gerry.
So how did this turn into yet another rant about Dokdo?
So how did this turn into yet another rant about Dokdo?
Because certain people have a pathological need to discuss it.
JK,
You are a goofball, as anyone who reads your posts should know by now, so I will not respond to all of your goofy claims. However, I do want to say that Matt, Ponta, and Pacifist had nothing to do with my deciding to write on “Dokdo.” They simply joined in on the discussions, which was the whole idea of posting on the Internet. They have provided me with a great deal of useful information on Japanese sources, which I appreciate. However, you, JK, do not seem to add anything to the debate, except to “egg on” Toadface, who supports the Korean claim with a bunch of half-truths and flawed logic.
Railwaycharm,
If you were referring to me in Post 280, I just want you to know that I was not trying to turn this thread into a Dokdo “rant.” I was out of country when this post was made and have just returned to find I have become a side-subject of it. I just wanted to respond to some of the allegations made against me in this thread. I tried to keep my response short and to the point. Now that I have said what I wanted to say, I will try to resist the urge to respond to any further comments made about me.
Gbevers,
You should come to terms with the fact you have become an infamous tragic hero of this blog and an innovator of the latest dance craze to hit Korea, The Phallic Stomp.
“JK, You are a goofball”
Gerry, Gerry, calling someone who disagrees with him a “goofball.” Some things really haven’t changed since 1999. At least come up with an original put-down! And why is anyone who disagrees with you, be it about Dokdo or your views on the Sunshine Policy, however flawed your views may be, a “goofball”? Keep your cool, Gerry, and answer calmly.
“, as anyone who reads your posts should know by now, so I will not respond to all of your goofy claims.”
Perhaps because you know they are NOT goofy claims, Gerry. You did indeed support the Sunshine Policy before the 2000 summit in North Korea and at the time said any Korean politician who questioned it was being a typically selfish Korean. Yet it turned out to be a failure, and you then jumped the other side of the fence and became the Sunshine policy’s biggest critic. You then started making statements that any Korean politician who SUPPORTED it was being a typically selfish Korean. Just ADMIT that those Koreans who opposed it from the beginning were right and that you were wrong to support it and that you were ALSO wrong to negatively stereotype all Koreans for opposing the Sunshine Policy prior the meeting between Kim Jong Il and Kim Dae Jung…because eventually you started thinking like they did. Have you learned your lesson since and stopped negatively generalizing Koreans? Apparently not.
“However, I do want to say that Matt, Ponta, and Pacifist had nothing to do with my deciding to write on ‘Dokdo.’ They simply joined in on the discussions, which was the whole idea of posting on the Internet. They have provided me with a great deal of useful information on Japanese sources, which I appreciate.
And they have jobs and you lost yours. Interesting consequences. At least they blogged from their home countries about it. YOU, on the other hand, blogged from a school in Korea while working on a yearly contract basis without tenure. Like I said, regardless of where anyone stands on issues like Dokdo or the Comfort Women or Korea’s colonization by Japan……we all think it was pretty stupid of you, Gerry. Don’t justify your own stupid actions.
“However, you, JK, do not seem to add anything to the debate, except to ‘egg on’ Toadface, who supports the Korean claim with a bunch of half-truths and flawed logic. ”
What part of his argument is a half-truth and flawed logic, Gerry? Pray tell.
RE: Gerry’s sources for his Dokdo posts
Matt wrote:
“wjk, you are absolutely wrong. Gerry does not use Japanese sources. He uses Korean sources and Korean maps. Gerry does not read or write or speak Japanese. Gerry’s work is entirely original, and people are actually translating his original work into Japanese at this moment. Gerry’s view on Dokdo has nothing to do with Japanese arguments.”
and wjk replied:
“http://www.geocities.jp/tanaka_kunitaka/takeshima/
you be the judge.”
wjk,
I went to that website, and some of the information posted there, including maps, does appear in Gerry’s posts. However, Gerry’s translations of historical records and map images are far more extensive that what appears at the site whose link you provided.
However, it took me fifteen minutes of googling to find another trilingual (Japanese/English/Korean) website with a large collection of historical materials:
http://toron.pepper.jp/
The Korean and English pages contain translations and explanations of historical data but no maps that I could find.
I did a map search at the Japanese page and found a whole collection of historical maps, many of which appear in Gerry’s map links:
http://toron.pepper.jp/takesr/wwwsrch.cgi
If the link doesn’t work, go to this page and put 地図 in the search box.
http://toron.pepper.jp/jp/take/ahn/index.html
Gerry does not read Japanese, but his coblogger does. Whether or not Gerry was made aware of the information at this or other sites does not make the historical data false or invalid.
And BTW, pages like this one (http://toron.pepper.jp/jp/take/tizu/maplist.html ) I viewed at the Toron site are dated the year 2004.
Most of the reasoning and logical processes behind Gerry’s postings can be found on the comments section of his posts, where theories are presented, tested, blown away, then reconsidered. Gerry does not really argue a positive Japanese argument for Dokdo/Takeshima, rather he investigates what, if any, relationship Korea had with Dokdo/Takeshima.
Anyone know more about this?
the unethical side of Matt=Shakuhachi=Occidentalism is that, they know all about Jodi’s link, can translate it, can comment about it, but choose to be silent about it.
Instead, they go all out on condemning red handed Korea.
How many times did Matt simply say LOL on threads like this?
So devious.
So, does the Japanese (Japanese/Canadian?) book that jodi linked have a target market of children and teens? Is this the kind of book that is likely to sell 12 000 000 copies? Whether it does or not, does that somehow justify Rhie’s book? Happy to see the IHT has a Rhie related story today…
Here’s the IHT story Global mentioned:
http://www.iht.com/articles/20...../korea.php
>Jodi
“Anyone know more about this?”
Ha, a book by Benjamin Fulford. He is a funny guy.
He believes that the recession in Japan during the 90ies was created by the Yakuza’s and basicaly that the Japanese economy is “ruled” by Yakuza’s.
He also firmly believes that the “9/11″ was a combined conspiracy by the MOSAD and CIA.
A total moron.
tomojiro, well, that being said, anyone who promotes such stuff including anti-semitism must be a complete moron.
globalvilliageidiot: “So, does the Japanese (Japanese/Canadian?) book that jodi linked have a target market of children and teens? Is this the kind of book that is likely to sell 12 000 000 copies?”
well, I guess any form of hate is pretty disgusting and whether or not it targets kids or makes lots of money doesn’t make such things any less wrong.
>Jodi
That’s his homepage.
http://benjaminfulford.com/indexEnglish.html
In the blogs he is saying that someone (He is accusing “Soka Gakkai”) sent a falsified piece to the Simon Wiesental Center.
He is also claiming that he has Jewish blood.
It seems to him that it is “apparently” a pressure from the American government to prevent him telling the truth.
Full of conspiracy theory.
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