A while ago, the Chosun Ilbo ran a piece on a social studies comic book on the United States by famous cartoonist Lee Won-bok that, judging from the report, I thought was anti-Semitic. Well, a blogger in Bucheon is now translating the comic into English, and it’s not pretty. (Note: I can’t vouch for the accuracy of the translation). UPDATE: Commentor Sonagi has uploaded some pages from the comic, and all I can say is I’m speechless.
Translation of anti-Semitic comic
This entry was written by Robert Koehler, posted on February 4, 2007 at 8:02 pm, filed under Asides, Ministry of Barbarian Affairs, ROK-US Issues. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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154 Comments
Man…and to think the only issues my comic books dealt with was what that dastardly Reggie would do next, if Jughead could find enough hamburgers, and if that fool Archie could ever decide which girl to take out.
Try telling that to the Irish. Or the Spanish (depending on how you choose to count such things).
Anyhow, anti-Semitism in Korea and Japan has got to be one of the strangest bigotries in the world. It’s as if the Canadians had a hate on the Zoroastrians. Or the Australians for the Inuit.
That hatred isn’t so strange. It’s envy.
I own the volume on the US, two volumes on Japan, and the volume on Korea. As Robert mentioned, the racial caricatures alone make these collectors’ items. I appreciate the blogger including page numbers for his translations as I was able to check the originals; the ones I checked, including the bit about Koreans coming in second because their greatest barrier to the top is the Jews, is accurate.
I caught on to these books because they were popular with my elementary students. The series, sadly, has sold very well, and I say sadly because it is evident from the interview in the Chosun Ilbo that Lee is a sloppy historian, not to mention biased against some of his subjects.
“a federation made up of 50 states, each of which is bigger than Korea; ““Also, compared to its national wealth, they have a very poor social welfare system,” he said. “
This is harsh coming from a native of a country with practically no social welfare system. Tell all those naturalized elderly Americans living in government subsidized housing. Tell that to my undocumented students attending public school at the taxpayers’ expense. Tell that to their undocumented mothers, who get coupons for free milk, cheese, infant formula, beans, and other foodstuffs for their US-born children. Tell that to recent immigrants receiving public assistance from many US states, who stepped in after the federal government instituted a residency requirement of 5 years. No, we are not as generous as Canada or Western Europe, but “very poor”? Hardly.
“In his new series, Lee also wrote about his experience and impression during his stay in the United States for one and a half years from 1999 while preparing the book. Lee talked about one of his experiences, “When I arrived in America, I could not rent a room because I had no credit record there. So, I told a real estate agency that I would pay rent for a year in advance. Then, he hurried to sign a contract and even reduced the rent. Through that experience, I learned that the U.S. is a reasonable society that stresses credit, but the background to that is that they do not trust people.” ‘
One and half years and he’s expert enough to write a social studies book for kids? And some Koreans and gyopos complain that expats overestimate their understanding of Korea. Did this guy ever try to rent a room in Korea without paying a huge deposit? Seems like he’s just digging up that old “we Koreans trust each other” folklore that appears in one of my Yonsei textbooks.
i imagine the north koreans find the south’s welfare plan to be very generous. there’s lots of cash and rice and fuel. the south even goes out of its way to help the north koreans set up factories. they’re not just feeding for them for a day, they’re teaching them how to fish and feeding them for a long time to come.
You mean Canadians don’t hate Zoroastrians?
I had to look it up, but as a Canadian, they seem as good as any. Thanks for the tip!
Well, i wouldn’t call it antisemitism…More like admiration/resentment for the good fortune of the dastardly jew.
Is this a strictly private publication, or is this used as a school textbook?
Does the author have any connection with the government — ie., does he also write textbooks?
The books are privately published educational materials. They are not textbooks. They are very popular.
Lee Wonbok is a College of Art professor at Duksung Women’s University. His inside cover flap bio lists a few history publications but no textbooks. He won a prize in 1993 for his cartoon work.
Like I said…Koreans have an intrinsic but childish admiration for Hitler which can be attributed to their dislike for Jews. Anti-Semitism by Koreans, as baffling as it seems at first, is quite understandable once anyone spends a considerable amount of time with Koreans and understands their hatred of any entity or people who excel at what they do to the point of surpassing Koreans themselves. Basically, Koreans see Jews as people who are capable of overcoming the same obstacles that Koreans face but are too weak to handle. They see Jews being lauded as a model people with integrity who are praised by others for being able to achieve what they did by nothing other than their own hard work. Unlike Koreans, the Jews overcame obstacles without having to resort to the cowardly practice of whining and blaming others for their problems, or bribery. This makes Koreans feel extremely hateful and jealous towards the Jews.
I need to stop starting a comment as I’m reading something…
Because, I had some questions about how antisemitic this thing is, at least based on the quotes translated at that site, and I made some good observations I’ll leave below, but I eventually read down to this part:
DING DING DING —- We have a winner!!
Yup. Antisemitic is a definate “yes.”
I think he plagerised this from Louis Farrakhan??? Or, was it Saudi TV????
—-now to the original comments before I hit the really disgusting part—
I’ve noticed and mentioned before that I had been bewildered a couple of times by thoughts expressed by well-educated Koreans concerning Israel and the Jews, but I think, based solely on the translations provided on that site, an argument can be made that it isn’t particularly antisemitic.
Do Jewish people deny this?
I thought that was a general understanding of one aspect of how antisemiticism was used as such a force in Western (and Muslim???) society. ——-That the Jews were discriminated against in what professions they could and couldn’t participate in –and that the professions they were allowed to do that could provide a good living — were ones the society deemed bad.
This quote reads to me as if the writer was not directly saying Jews were greedy, devious bastards and that is why Western society hated them —- but is saying that that is what Western society said about them after it oppressed them by not allowing them to work in all the occupations like any normal citizen.
Now, the logic here escapes me as well as tid bits from history. Jews were persecuted for centuries in the West, so I question just how many “concessions” they gained by any means during this period. I guess the author could be saying that one or two Jews who managed to get rich lending money to powerful Westerners gained concessions and then the other Jews had to suffer for it….???….
Now, here, as some others pointed out, this is starting to sound like the odd antisemitic things I heard from some Koreans —– that Korea had suffered just as much as the Jews, but the Jews get all the sympathy and Korea gets zip.
But, from the next quote, the guy seems to be chastising Korean society for not being as strong as one as he sees Jews being:
Part of the comment got cut off…
The summation was that this comic book fits with what I had seen a little of before: that Korean antisemiticsm stems from jealousy of the global sympathy the Jewish people get over The Holocaust, because they believe Koreans deserve just as much global attention for its suffering if not more. And since Korea doesn’t have that kind of sympathy, they have this subconscious driving force to rip down the idea of the Jewish people as if they did not deserve such sympathy.
I also noted how I couldn’t be confident in how deep this attitude is in SK, but when the Hitler bar made the news and caused a stir in the K-blogshere (of expats), and Koreans couldn’t figure out what the big deal was — it must run pretty deep…
If the translations are accurate, anti-semitic definitely yes. What’s more, it sounds just like the impressionitic views of someone who isn’t terribly thoughtful about the topic of culture. I can only imagine that these books are popular because he confirms his audience’s impressions about other countries and cultures…and probably their own superiority in relationship.
In a quote from the Chosun Ilbo, he says:
“When I arrived in America, I could not rent a room because I had no credit record there. So, I told a real estate agency that I would pay rent for a year in advance. Then, he hurried to sign a contract and even reduced the rent. Through that experience, I learned that the U.S. is a reasonable society that stresses credit, but the background to that is that they do not trust people.”
I’ve been in Korea for more than five years and I’ve got a reliable income from a university and it’s difficult to get phone, cable, internet, etc. services in my name. I can’t get a credit card, on and on…
I don’t believe that Koreans are not trusting people because of this. It’s just quirks in the system and perhaps some development lag concerning foreign residents.
Worst of it all is that these books are big hits not only with children but with adults as well. I’ve taught American culture classes for the past five years and in every class the students buy these US comic-history books (not sure if the same series) It’s my unfortunate lot to end up trying to argue with these books that no, Jews do not control the US…etc.
Talk about distortion of history!
i am familiar with Lee Won Bok. I was given his comic book sets which start as, 1/France, 2/Germany, 3/United Kingdom, 4/Netherlands, 5/Swiss, 6/Italy.
Earlier works were mostly educational and more of a highly educated man’s viewpoint of touring Europe and other areas of the world, and his thesis on how it relates to Koreans. Other than the obligatory potshots on Japan, I found nothing distasteful.
These were published pre-Kim Young Sam.
Note that.
Later works came out with many years of delay. I was about to purchase some at a New York kyopo book store, but each book cost about $20. So I just skimmed and didn’t buy.
Later works seemd to be post-Kim Dae Jung.
Note that.
They cover Japan, Korea, and US, etc.
Now with more freedom of speech, he criticizes Bush and Jews a lot, and seems more liberal in politics.
Overall, it’s just one man’s view of the world. No relation to goverment or any school.
anyone want to throw their 2 cents in on Jimmy Carter’s new book?
also, the earlier 6 works ran on a children’s daily newspaper, I think the children’s so nyun cho sun ilbo.
I think the later works ran in lady’s monthly magazines.
due to financial constraints, and opting to purchase music, I haven’t read any of Lee Won Bok’s new works nor Jimmy Carter’s book. I just skimmed Lee Won Bok’s for maybe 15 minutes.
the Koreans admire the Nazis? Japan has a manga called Adolf. Japan has more detailed replicas of SS Waffen units of soliders and tanks and vehicles and planes than Germany itself. Japan is more obsessed with fascism and idolizing of Nazis. Get it right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_(manga)
http://www.tamiya.com/japan/pr...../index.htm
“anyone want to throw their 2 cents in on Jimmy Carter’s new book?”
Good one, wjk! I wonder what people like USinKorea have to say about THAT! Does former President Carter’s book that is critical of Israel and supportive of the Palestinian cause (which in and of itself could be viewed as legitimate) mean that white Americans in general are anti-Semitic and pro-terrorist??? (I understand there’s a stretch to my hypothetical argument but it is to show the ridiculous generalization made by usinkorea about Koreans being jealous of Jews; if all Koreans can be generalized based on a few extreme cases the same could be done for white Americans.)
what my Jewish friend once said, when I showed him the above 2 links,
” Do the Nazis like Asians or something?”
LOL. Of course hell not.
i don’t have to link back to Taiwan again, do I? Put South Korea way below Japan and Taiwan on the Nazi lover list.
His work maybe viewed as too much race based generalizations and patronizing therefore, anti semetic. But am I the only person here who is wondering where is the violent, virulent Hitlertarian anti semeticism and Korean supremacy in his work that everybody is talking about? In fact, he keeps claiming Korea was backward ass and comes second to Jews because Jews are stronger. That doesn’t sound like a Korea number one pitch to me. Although he does sound like a dolt with too much time on his hands who thinks he’s got it all figured out when he hasn’t got a clue.
A report on anti semiticsm in the world.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/40258.htm
I guess what I’m trying to say is
—-sigh—–
I don’t think I’m the only one here who said they had caught wind of this phenomenon in their time in Korea.
And I believe I specifically stated
I can also think of some things I’ve heard about Israel from the Korea Herald editorial desk too.
And I have no problem with my generalization of Korean society as a whole as I stated and qualified.
As for Carter’s book, I would think the mass defections of key members from the board connected with his center probably means something, but I haven’t read the book or read quotes from it.
As for Carter and mass generalizations, try this one on for size…
…if Carter’s book had come out in the early to mid-20th Century, or if it had come out in the US in the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s-70s as Carter was the governor of the southern state of Georgia — I would have lumped it together with a significant general trend of antisemiticism in American society.
Again, I’ve caught enough glimpses of this Korean reason for bemoaning the sympathy the Jews get in the world, and apparently so have other expats commenting on the thread, not to feel one iota sorry for my generalization about what you call “all Koreans.”
cm,
As an answer to your subsequent question, uh, he isn’t just making generalizations and being patronizing…
…he specifically argues, whether incoherently or not, that the reason Koreans can’t get to the top in America is because of the Jews and their powerful hold on American society.
He specifically says Koreans should are “sad” that they can’t reach greater economic and other positive status in Korea, because they are blocked by the Jews.
Then he goes on about how the Jews control the American economy and thus the world economy - with the strong implication that this is again to the detriment of the Korean nation.
Those things alone are bad.
But, when you recognize they are also echoes of lines of argument used in the past (and today) by rabid anti-semitics, it doesn’t take a giant leap of faith to begin to place this guy in the same ballpark as other more violent antisemitic groups.
That should be “He specifically says Koreans are “sad” that they can’t reach greater economic and other positive status in the US (and beyond), because they are blocked by the Jews.”
“Koreans couldn’t figure out what the big deal was — it must run pretty deep…”
BUZZZ… wrong.
Nazi bars have been a fad trend not just in Korea, but also Japan, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. And the last time I looked these three countries aren’t considered to be virulently anti semetic, at least nearly to the same degree as the Europeans and Muslims.
You said it, “Koreans couldn’t figure out what the big deal is”. That’s because a shrug and a what’s the big deal is all you’re going to get when you talk to an average Korean about “the Jew”.
What you see in Korea is what you see in typical East Asian cultures - lack of empathy for others towards who are not the same countrymen. This makes them obvilious to the fact that others are victims too. It’s selfish, outdated, frog in the well attitude in the globalized world. Now that’s a criticism and generalization that’s on the mark.
A picture is worth a thousand words. It isn’t just the Jewish Conspiracy content. It’s the caricatured images that have helped Lee Wonbok sell so many books and even win a prize. Judge for yourself by viewing the chapter page by page at Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/6.....517612348/
On p.221 at the bottom is a picture of a Star of David manipulating the word “WASP” like a puppet.
P.226 shows a pitchfork adorned with a Star of David lunging at a gentile.
P. 230: dollar signs and money in nearly every picture. My favorite is the Jewish man thrusting a shield bearing a Star of David on top and a dollar sign on the bottom.
p.232: in the sixth picture a huge Star of David is superimposed on Europe.
p.233: in the middle is a picture of a bag of money adorned with both the Star of David and a dollar sign.
p.242, top right pic: Jews control the media
p.246: A chef wearing a tophat adorned with the Star of David holds a huge knife over a slice of meat labeled “American Financial System” The text reads that Jews control finance in the US. Check out the other images on the page.
p.249, the final page of the chapter: The author reminds kids that ethnic Koreans in the US number more than 2 million
Oops, got cut off.
p.249: The author reminds kids that among the varied ethnic groups in the US are 2 million ethnic Koreans who’ve never given Americans any reason to hate them.
I just remembered US copyright law fair use guidelines and deleted a few pages to put me just under the 10% limit.
Hey, MARMOT, I just saw your plumpness on CBS. Dude, wear some makeup please. Seriously, you are way cool. Who was the Korean chick? Did you meet Couric?
He is not the only person at Duksung who is anti-Semitic. Another guy there (Duksung) straight out of middle America is a holocaust denier. Never talk about Jews to him as he will go off on a huge diatribe on how the Jews are responsible for every evil in the world and that they are subhuman.
Marmot on CBS? Really? What did you talk about? Yootube link anybody?
This quote alone shows about how sloppy this guy’s ‘research’ is. Each of the 50 states is larger than Korea? Even Rhode Island? Actually, if you only take into account South Korea, there are 37 states larger than it. If you compare the entire Korean Peninsula, you’d only have about 12 states that are larger. Sure, Alaska is about 7 times as large as the entire Korean Peninsula, but I don’t think it counts as seven states because of that.
Holy crap! It’s a wall of Jews! This is just such a precious quote… Yes, friends… The wall of Jews is keeping Koreans down. And here, I thought it was the ceiling of Irish or perhaps the chandeliers of Scandinavians. What I find interesting here isn’t so much the fact that the author blames the failures of the Korean minjok in America on Jews, but rather that he implies that somehow, Koreans’ influence on American culture is just a couple degrees less than that of the Jews (which I don’t find to be quite as dominant as the author does, but then again, I’m not wearing a tinfoil hat, so their Jewish mind control rays have undoubtedly warped my fragile mind). Sorry, Mr. Author, but Koreans are at least going to have to get past the (wall of) Mexicans in the arena of cultural influence before we can even consider them as runners-up to the Jews in the great culture wars. Heck, there’s not even any fast food restaurants that serve up unhealthy bastardizations of Korean cuisine to the faceless masses. Ever heard of Kimchi Bell? Pajeon hut? Me neither.
Hey, it’s not like I got much warning. CBS calls our office in the morning—and this was like early last year—and say they’re coming in to interview us. So they interview us, and only after do they tell us its for the Superbowl pregame show. The Korean woman, BTW, was our assistant editor. And no, I didn’t meet Couric.
Robert,
Were you on the CBS Evening News? Free videos are available at their website. Which day were you on?
@Zonath:
Perhaps my favorite part of the chapter is the concluding image, a big picture of Hangeul signs in Koreatown, and the author telling kids not to forget that Korean-Americans have never given anyone any reason to hate them.
put in on youtube
I’d prefer not to, but I’m sure someone has already.
HOLY CRAP! ITS A WALL OF MEXICANS!
What did you talk about, Robert?
Hines Ward and mixed-race individuals in Korea.
After I went to bed after commenting last on this thread, I thought I should qualify my statement some more and put it more along the lines of something acceptable to my critics - along these lines:
“Antisemitic” is a strong word. It naturally brings up a stronger thought that what I actually mean by the trend in Korean society I am talking about.
I would agree with CM that “antisemitic” thought in Korean society is nowhere close to what it is in Muslim states and not as strong as it is in Europe (I guess, because I don’t really have much of a clue what it is like in Europe these days) and it is not as bad as with the groups in the US who are antisemitic.
I would also say that the Koreans I’m talking about would not be close to strength of antisemiticism this author expresses in the parts quoted so far.
But, I do still say that there is an odd trend in Korean society, especially with the intellectuals and educated, of being bitter about Korea’s not getting the same level of sympathy as the Jews for The Holocaust.
And on the subject of Hitler bars in Japan or other Asian nations - that and if comic books like this were mass sellers in those nations as well - they would deserve just as much criticism as Korea. There is something very wrong when stuff like that is shown out in the public and the public does not have a natural negative reaction to it.
Those “먼나라 이웃나라” books are absolute garbage, written by one frog in the well for the tadpoles stuck in the bottom. It’s a true shame that they are so popular with Korean elementary students, who are the series’s target audience.
Their only value is as amusement, an encyclopaedia of Koreans’s stereotypes of each and sundry races and nations.
Lee Wonbok is an assclown (maybe someone has already made this observation, I didn’t read all the comments). One of his moronic cartoons “explained” the difference between Chinese, Japanese and Korean use of chopsticks, and of course the latter’s chopsticks were superior, just the right length and made of metal–how pathetic is that.
Lee represents the worst of Korean society.
BTW, I have pulled all but two of the pages on Flickr because Fair Use copyright is very restrictive with children’s materials. Little by little, I will repost the worst pictures with commentary in order to abide by US copyright laws.
Sonagi—I just read the page still up dealing with the Jews. Can’t say I’m surprised, but still…
Oh, and just a note about the last page. Lee says “Koreans mustn’t hate America” because America is part of “us” (i.e., Koreans) since some 2 million Korean-Americans live there. Remind me to drop a note of thanks to all my Korean-American friends—without them, Koreans would really hate us
“Nazi bars have been a fad trend not just in Korea, but also Japan, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. ”
“the Koreans admire the Nazis? Japan has a manga called Adolf. Japan has more detailed replicas of SS Waffen units of soliders and tanks and vehicles and planes than Germany itself. Japan is more obsessed with fascism and idolizing of Nazis. Get it right.”
But of course….how can we forget to leave out a comparison with Japan about who is more anti-semetic when the topic at hand is Koreans and their negative attitude towards Jews. Thank you so much, wjk, for bringing up yet again a totally unrelated reference to Japan to somehow sooth the criticism of Korea. We mustn’t forget to do our jobs as good Koreans by leaving out…”Oh, well Japan/Taiwan is worse!” whenever we get criticized. LOL.
It’s really funny…Koreans are simply notable to evaluate themselves without Japan. On the other hand, Japanese would hardly consider Korea to be even close to a standard for evaluating themselves. Other than evaluating the number of poorly acted dramas, incidences of cyber-terrorism, and production of illegal copied goods, Korea provides hardly any useful comparison models.
“Again, I’ve caught enough glimpses of this Korean reason for bemoaning the sympathy the Jews get in the world, and apparently so have other expats commenting on the thread, not to feel one iota sorry for my generalization about what you call “all Koreans.””
And I, usinkorea, do not feel one iota sorry for my own generalizations about the stereotypical Western expat living in Korea, married to a Korean woman, and bitching constantly about Koreans while defending their OWN country as some morally superior one (what nonsense!) and holding Korea to a different standard even though their OWN country can be as bad if not worse in many aspects.
BTW, I KNOW a lot of Koreans from my time living in Korea and here in the US, and none of them are anti-Semitic. So much for your generalizations. Shall we now generalize white expats in Korea? Some of these stereotypes have been confirmed by white expats living in Korea themselves.
But seems you’re okay with one kind of stereotype but not another.
I wonder what the Embassy of Israel thinks of this. In any case, the links have been sent to the Simon Wiesenthal Center.
please teach me how to report the Japanese to the Simon Wiesenthal Center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_%28manga%29
same guy who drew Astro Boy !
I was always wondering where was the Korean equivalent of such a center against the Japanese.
I’ve uploaded the most offending images from the chapter on Jews in America at Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62177820@N00/
When I have time this week, I will translate. Others are encouraged to put in their own translations using the comment feature.
I will note that Lee Wonbok is perpetuating negative stereotypes created by others. The cartoons, however, are entirely his own ugly creations.
And still they queue at the US embassy, knowing at best they’ll be only be
#2#3–them South Asians are a far talented lot.@ Zonath, funniest stuff I’ve read in a while.
WJK, that comic doesn’t seem anti-semitic, it has Hitler as a partly Jewish character and another is a German-Japanese character. It’s just a whacky Japanese manga.
http://www.rationalmagic.com/Comics/Adolf.html
Wiseunja in #49 has your number man — I’ve lost count of how many times Koreans have asked me “Which country do you like better, Japan or Korea?” Good god.
wjk, you really are a piece of comic work. As wiesunja said above..what the hell does anything related to Japan have to do with this anti-semetic comic published in Korea? My god, you Koreans are seriously like stalkers…always having and obsessing about Japan 24/7 like some rejected scorned lover. If you only knew how pathetic this makes you Koreans look in the eyes of others, you would cease such stupid behavior..but then again, to be able to see this requires confidence and logic, which I guess is pretty much impossible for Koreans.
It really is an enigma, that even Korean Americans such as yourself (I assume you are KA since your English is good) who have lived their entire lives in this country can be susceptible to such stupidity and feelings of insecurity. I totally could understand a native Korean behaving in such a way given their educational system and culture, but for someone who is brought up in a supposedly objective and logical environment in the US…how could the likes of you, bluejives, nulji, etc. turn out like this? And it is not just one or two in the minority…every single kyopo just reeks of insecurity and extreme feelings of jealousy when it comes to anything regarding Japan.
I am almost convinced now that it is genetic..that there is something in the Korean genetic map that prevents self confidence and maturity synapses from firing correctly all the way into adulthood. Now, it is not even funny but really sad.
Actually, Marka, I understand the point wjk is making. He is saying that this recent cartoon by the Korean is yet ANOTHER excuse to jump on the “slam Korea ’cause it’s the most screwed up country” bandwagon when he sees it as ANOTHER thing that is common with countries like Japan. In other words, if you look hard enough, you can FIND something screwed up with Korea….the same way that if you look hard enough at Japan and the US and Canada, trust me, you can find something screwed up in those countries as well. And often, those screwed up things are common. But I guess you didn’t get this point.
Seriously…I sometimes wonder, if Japan didn’t exist, what would Koreans be like? Who would be their whipping post then? Koreans can only definite themselves in terms of comparisons with other nations. Have you noticed that? I really wonder.
Also, you are correct. The comic “Adolf” is hardly what you would call “Anti-Semetic”. More of a suspense and action manga taking place during World War II. WJK, must have pulled his hair out scrounging all over the internet hoping to find something which he could use to somehow say that Japan is more anti-semetic than Korea but I guess all he could come up with was this.
WJK, seriously..there is a world out there which exists outside of trying to prove Korea is a better nation than Japan. That’s fine…we know Korea is so great and better than Japan, yada yada. Now, please go back and relax…OK?
(chuckle)
JK,
Last time I checked, this blog, and this post in particular, has nothing to do with Japan. The topic is Korea. Why do Koreans always want to divert and deflect criticism into “Oh, Japan is the same/worse!”
Hell, why not “Russia is the same. China is the same or worse, etc.”? I think you know the answer. It’s obvious. It’s that obsession/jealousy feeling. Believe me, it looks very stupid and childish and just makes Koreans look like insecure idiots. Is that the image that Korean Americans really wish to project?
No one is claiming that Korea is the only anti-semetic country in the world or the worst one. However, as many have written, the attitudes towards Jews and admiration for Nazis amongst many Koreans does seem to indicate a propensity for Koreans to view Jews with disdain. That is the topic at hand. How is a comparison to Japan even remotely related to this? If Korea gets criticized for something such as bad sportsmanship (such as in the recent Asian Games incident in China), do Koreans automatically try to dig up dirt on Japan to defend themselves?
Really. It is pathetic.
“Actually, Marka, I understand the point wjk is making. He is saying that this recent cartoon by the Korean is yet ANOTHER excuse to jump on the “slam Korea ’cause it’s the most screwed up country” bandwagon when he sees it as ANOTHER thing that is common with countries like Japan. In other words, if you look hard enough, you can FIND something screwed up with Korea….the same way that if you look hard enough at Japan and the US and Canada, trust me, you can find something screwed up in those countries as well. And often, those screwed up things are common. But I guess you didn’t get this point.”
I just loathe people who profit from hate.
JK,
I do not see how you understand the point wjk made as he failed to make one. This is a blog regarding Korean issues. Surprisingly, Korean issues are discussed
.
For the most part, people who put in their opinions do not see these topics as being mutually exclusive. Those that do should be either a) ignored or b) mocked (but why feed em?)
Citing other instances in other countries is just a diversion from the issue at hand and makes it look like you have nothing substantial to offer - and in many cases it implies that there is a reasonable amount of truth to the topic that you are trying to avoid.
By the way, you don’t have to look very hard to find things screwed up in Canada or the US - I, and I am sure many others from the US and Canada, will not hesitate to admit it. Those that don’t, are not worth talking to except for the amusement factor.
I’m not sure if that’s true, either. Don’t want to extrapolate too much from a comic book and a bar in Sinchon. And while this will probably sound hollow, to the extend that there is some degree of admiration for the Nazis, it’s because of their reputation for law and order, visual/fashion taste and, probably most importantly, Hitler’s charismatic leadership style, NOT because the Nazis killed six million Jews. Granted, there may be a double standard there given the kind of reaction similar admiration for, say, Imperial Japan might evoke, but I’ve never heard a Korean express admiration for the Holocaust. In fact, the worst thing I ever really hear are attempts by some to liken the plight of Koreans under colonial rule to the Holocaust. If I had to make an uninformed guess, I’d say most Koreans know or care as much about Jews as they do for indigenous tribes in the Amazon; I doubt very strongly there is a general propensity for Koreans to hold Jews in disdain. I will grant, however, that you can read some pretty scary things sometimes…
Aigoo!!! With the exception of Robert Koehler’s, there were some seriously nonsensical responses after my last comment. I’ll address them eventually, rest assured that.
For now I will address one of the many comments: “Seriously…I sometimes wonder, if Japan didn’t exist, what would Koreans be like? ”
Seriously…I sometimes wonder, if Nazi Germany didn’t exist, what would Jews be like? Sounds like a silly statement, no? Unfortunately Nazi Germany IS and WILL ALWAYS BE a part of Jewish culture in the same that imperial Japan is and, to some extent, always will be a part of Korean culture. That is sad, but that is a fact. THAT is also part of the tragedy of what Nazi Germany and imperial Japan did to Jews and Koreans, not just what happened up to 1945 but the dark memory that will always linger.
Anti-semitism isn’t foreign to Koreans. Some christians here blame the Jews for the crussifiction. I wonder, is that cartoonist a Moonie?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.....tisemitism
In any case, modern Korean nationalism has been influenced by Nazi ideology, thanks to Yi Pom Sok, who had studied in Germany and had strong connections with the Nazi government. He eventually became the prime minister of South Korea.
http://metropolitician.blogs.c.....of_th.html
SomeguyinKorea, exactly WHO is profiting from hate? Surely you don’t mean me. I am not propagating hate; I am showing that I get wjk’s comment and I’m not getting paid for it. So clarify.
The comic book writer is making a profit the same way Rush Limbaugh and Pat Buchanan and John Mayer are. What they say grabs attention. And a lot of Americans get their parents to listen to people like Limbaugh, Buchanan, and Mayer.
Correction from previous post: I meant to say a lot of Americans get their KIDS to listen to people like Limbaugh, Buchanan, and Mayer.
TheGoat wrote: “I do not see how you understand the point wjk made as he failed to make one. ”
Actually TheGoat, wjk DID make his point well. It’s like if a Korean was rude to a white Westerner, someone on this board would go “Aha! You see??? Koreans are rude to us white people. They’re racist in general - most of the population! Not like where I come from!” If I say, “Well actually, I am an American, and I often got treated badly by certain white people growing up because I am of Asian descent. Strangely, I don’t experience this half as much as I do in certain parts of America.” And people like TheGoat go, “That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand! We’re talking Korea here!” And I go, “Well, just pointing out that Korea is not this uniquely screwed up country since an implied comparison was being made.”
But you STILL probably don’t get all of this, TheGoat. I’ll let you live in your small little world where we can criticize the speck in Koreans’ eyes and ignore the log in your own. And believe me, I could REALLY make some stereotypes because I often see this attitude in the expat community. Funny thing is that when these Western expats stay in Korea too long, they often remember their home countries as paradise. Of course then they return home….and find they can’t adapt that well in their own home countries….and within a few years are back in Korea.
Marka wrote:
“Last time I checked, this blog, and this post in particular, has nothing to do with Japan. The topic is Korea. Why do Koreans always want to divert and deflect criticism into ‘Oh, Japan is the same/worse!’
Well then let me respond like my fellow Americans would respond if either Korean or Japanese immigrants or expats living in America were to constantly complain about America and find faults in the news about some American sensationalists or anti-Semites looking for attention and a quick buck.
My American friends and colleagues would say (to a hypothetical complaining Korean or Japanese expat living in the US who was determined to find all the latest dirt on America to prove what a messed up country it was): “Look, I won’t lie and say America doesn’t have its faults. But America is still a great country and a great people! Not all of us Americans are anti-Semites even though SOME Americans like David Duke are. And if you’re just gonna live in America and gripe day in and day out that America is screwed up and racist, well, you can just get your little *ss out of here and go back to Korea (or Japan)! America, love it or leave it! And things in many ways are a LOT worse in YOUR country (be it Korea or Japan). ”
Of course the angry Korean or Japanese expat might say, “Why do Americans always want to divert and deflect criticism into ‘Oh, another country is the same/worse!’
Hm…sounds kinda familiar, no?
JK,
Don’t get me wrong, I could really care less what you or wjk have to say in pretty much any thread as it rarely has to do with the topic. I put you guys (among) others in the ‘amusement’ category that rarely bring anything relevant to the table.
Also, you know nothing about me or my views on Canadian society, the people, culture, politics or anything. Actually, you don’t even know my views on this topic as I have not added anything other than 2 glib remarks at the beginning of the thread. But that does not matter. To you, I am and will always be a hater due to the simple fact that I am not Korean and that I have the gall to talk about social issues pertaining to the country in which I live.
Should be “(among others)” of course.
Uh-oh. Piss off expats, no biggie. Piss of the Jews and you’re in for a whole lot of hurt. Betcha the screenplay of that poor Japanese girl fleeing Korean rapists was just green lighted.
Since we’ve digressed to talking about other countries I’ll pile on. Was at a few social events back in the States a while ago and fell into some conversations where Canadians were mentioned unflatteringly. I’m all for that. It struck me that these Canadians were unlike any I’d ever heard about. “Who are these Canadians?” A women replied, “Not Canadian Canadians. It’s a codeword…for Jews.” Golly! Poor Jews. Being called Canadian I mean.
All in all, I gotta give the stupid Professor a bit of credit; he wears his prejudice proudly, which is more than can be said about those with whom I conversed. Or those who keep pointing fingers at Japan.
Yeap familiar. I’ve seen the exact same thing in non-Korea related forums. It’s human nature to be defensive. But usually it’s alright if family members criticize each other. That’s human nature too.
But I digress. All you Jews in Korea, watch your backs lest you get lynched by all those Nazi Korean skin heads and adjumas who hate Jews.
To TheGoat: “Don’t get me wrong, I could really care less what you or wjk have to say in pretty much any thread…”
Ah, now that IS a laugh.
“To you, I am and will always be a hater due to the simple fact that I am not Korean and that I have the gall to talk about social issues pertaining to the country in which I live.”
No, I merely question why a certain amount of relativism cannot be introduced when critiquing a country to give it some sense of perspective.
JK, the answer is pretty obvious: the cartoonist and his publishers.
“The comic book writer is making a profit the same way Rush Limbaugh and Pat Buchanan and John Mayer are. What they say grabs attention. And a lot of Americans get their parents to listen to people like Limbaugh, Buchanan, and Mayer.”
I loathe them too.
“JK, the answer is pretty obvious: the cartoonist and his publishers.”
Ah, well considering that you wrote this in reply to what I wrote, it could have been construed as having been aimed at me. Fine. My mistake. Then what did your comment then HAVE to do with what I wrote to you?
Okay, okay, I get your point, usinkorea. Yes, I hate people who write scandalous sh*t to make money.
I haven’t. Only in Korean forums.
Too bad you couldn’t give the same warning a bit earlier to Major David Berry about barbaric Korean skinhead losers who like to stab foreigners just because they are foreign.
http://edition.cnn.com/2000/AS.....litary.ap/
Or brave Korean patriots who attack 6 year old Japanese schoolchildren with an axe:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/....._113064215
2 Trackbacks/Pingbac
“Too bad you couldn’t give the same warning a bit earlier to Major David Berry about barbaric Korean skinhead losers who like to stab foreigners just because they are foreign.”
Yeah, Marka, next time bring up the time African-Americans went on a rampage and shot Korean shop owners. Or too bad we Americans didn’t give warnings to each other about how white ex-soldiers behave…then we would have been warned in advance about people like Timothy McVeigh. Because as you know, if ONE white ex-US soldier is bad, this just HAS to mean the entire white American race of ex-soldiers is bad, right Marka?
I hope everyone sees I wrote the above paragraph sarcastically to make a point to Marka.
cm,
I agree. I am not saying that I am a master of the argument by any means, but I do try and stay on topic and avoid the common pitfalls.
I like http://fallacyfiles.org/
I can’t say for sure if it is 100% correct but it is a pretty good guide and straightforward.
I really don’t think I have much to say about this topic that has not already been said. I don’t think there is malicious intent, but just a rather naive acceptance that what he is saying is indeed true. The troubling part is that there is no domestic controversy about the book as far as I know. This could imply larger ignorance and acceptance of these ‘distortions’ as facts.
“I haven’t. Only in Korean forums.”. Then you’re not being honest. I post in a Canadian forum, about Canadian stuff. Can’t count how many times I’ve read anti-immigrant, anti-Chinese, anti-Asian posts. Not a day goes by without someone posting immigrants are ruining Canada. Visible minorities are leeching off Social welfare, that there is systematic discrimination against whites, that there is an evil Asian conspiracy to spy and take over the country. We’re constantly told to go back home, get out of Canada if you don’t like it here, and I might add much much more so then this forum or any other Korea related forums I’ve read - probably because there aren’t that many Koreans who are proficient enough in English.
As for those links, unfortunate and unacceptable incidents but is that all you can do - to go back years to dig those up? Racist incidents they are, they still are very isolated cases from the overall view of the situation. You can’t possibly be telling us that Korea is a dangerous place for foreigners? But nevermind, I think that’s what you’re saying.
“The troubling part is that there is no domestic controversy about the book as far as I know. ”
As I have tried to explain before being shot down by reactionary forces who will probably won’t accept any explaination other then the black and white view of Koreans as nothing but racist nazis. And there is a big difference between trying to ‘explain’ and trying to ‘excuse’.
There is no domestic controversy because for most Koreans, apathy toward sufferings of people other then Koreans is the norm. Korean culture is simply not mature enough at this point to be able to put themselves in other’s shoes (lack of empathy), that some of the actions maybe hurtful. This only proves my point that average Koreans are apathetic to Jews (a group that Koreans have had any experience before). I brought up Taiwan, Hong Kong and Japan where similiar things happens because I believe that this is maybe something to do with Confuscianism.
Not saying there is no anti semiticim in Korea. There is, especially in some intellectual circles. But come on, trying to tie this up to another example of Korean hatred of foreigners is frankly hard to swallow.
cm, I agree with much of your last comment. Well put!
They’ve had
5000 years4000 yearsseveral millennia to mature. Can’t keep asking for the we-don’t-know-no-better idiot pass.Pretty odd, and perhaps selfish, that they want everyone’s empathy, though.
I think I figured out the wisdom of give and take by the time I was 5.
And here I thought me me and the gimme gimmes was just a punk band.
Robert:
For that, the great minjok writer Jo Jung-rae gives a good example in the introduction to his 12-volume novel Arirang:
(The whole introduction translated in an old blog note of mine.)
While being actually envious of Jews for being able to “use the Holocaust for their advantage” and being a strong an influential people, Jo ends up sounding (and being) offensively antisemitic and similar to what Rhie draws and writes. And that’s what much of the attitudes of Koreans who have any seem to be about.
Antti—I was thinking of Jo Jung-rae, and your post in particular, when I wrote that. Thanks for the link to your post.
Yeah, Antti, Koreans are so ENVIOUS of Jews. (WTH are you talking about???)
Seriously, though, this is really REALLY the first time I’ve ever heard of this. If anything the Jewish and Korean communities in America, at least, have strongly paralleled and helped each other. I see no envy whatsoever.
But since I have a different opinion from many of you who insist that Koreans are racists who hate Jews, I guess there’s no more point in my arguing against the angry “Koreans-hate-Jews” Western expat mob.
I’m with JK on this. After all, we have “bluejives” and his Korean-Jewish outreach program. Although only one man, certainly that is enough to defy this putative stereotype.
Scrolling through Antti’s site there’s a link in the comments to hardcore Waffen SS stuff. That comic must just be a primer.
For those who apt to, commence your rationalizations.
I don’t believe this site represents a view of but a few nutters in Korea. But with the great number of kiddies exposed to the comic being discussed, I won’t be surprised if more than a few make the leap to the dark side. Especially when some make light of it, cast blame on accuse others, etc.
I guess the first question is, do you know who Jo Jung-rae is? It might help in knowing WTH he’s talking about.
That very well might be the case. This isn’t America, however.
And to volunteer to help clarify what I think Antti was trying to say, he wasn’t saying that all, or even most, Koreans are racists who hate Jews. He was simply saying much the same thing as cm (a comment with which you agreed), namely, that within certain intellectual circles (such as those swam in by Jo Jung-rae and, perhaps, Lee Won-bok), anti-Semitic ideology exists. And that most Koreans who have an opinion about Jews—which might not be very many—hold Jews in the regard Antti described. I see no reason why this should be a surprise.
‘Last time I checked, this blog, and this post in particular, has nothing to do with Japan. The topic is Korea. Why do Koreans always want to divert and deflect criticism into “Oh, Japan is the same/worse!” ‘
well, you mustn’t check arond much cause the expat loves to use japan as a club against korea. you mean you’ve never seen that here? you must be blind. ‘japan more mature!’ ‘japan don’t act that way.’ ‘look at japan!’ you see that all the time on this board. if the expat can do it. so can we.
wiesunja, i’m glad korea chewed you up and spit you out. makes me feel proud. don’t blame korea you’re a weakling.
ps would the person contacting the wiesenthal center also send the photos of the chinese stereotyping koreans? you’ll remember most of you were just as upset about that as you are about the subject at hand here today.
wiesonja*, indeed.
* for those who don’t know, ‘wiesonja’ means ‘hypocrite’