This is interesting—you can get into Princeton and still be a dumb ass.
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36 Comments
“Li said that he had quickly recognized that the article was satire but that satire was no excuse.” So now satire is verboten in the U.S.?
The piece was written by a group that included Asians, so even if it’s not PC it wasn’t written mindlessly. It addressed a relevant issue and made fun of stereotypes.
“I thought it was sad that people were so offended by it, because it shows that racism still exists,” said Felix Huang, a senior from Texas whose parents are from Taiwan. “But I think the column was a joke, and I took it for the satire that it was meant to be.” There’s at least one intelligent guy at Princeton.
I don’t think it’s at all funny. It embarasses the institution.
What was even remotely satirical about it?
Humor is subjective but satire is protected free speech:
http://www.firstamendmentcente.....ody_satire
What isn’t satirical about it?
Possibly a funny idea, but the execution was poor.
True it isn’t Swift, but free speech is on the decline in the U.S. and everything gets the knee-jerk label “racism.” Even though “Borat” wasn’t all that funny to me it hit some nerves that deserved to be hit, probably like this article.
“Borat” was stupid and unfunny too — good comparison.
What is that satirizing?
You were dead on with your borat predictions dogbertt, I’ll give you credit for that. Complete and utter bomb. No media coverage. No golden globes. No oscar nominations. Paltry box office. Absolutely zero impact on the culture, and fans and critics alike simply hated it across the board, just as you predicted.
Oh wait, sorry. The opposite of all that happened and you ended up looking like Dick Cheney talking about Iraq…every single thing you ever said about the subject turned out to be completely wrong.
Not that I was keeping track or ended up being spot on in everything I predicted.
http://asiapages.wordpress.com...../#comments
So funny! Me laugh long time!
@blueballs: So what? My prediction was wrong. FWIW, I saw that shlemiel’s speech at the Golden Globe awards — real classy.
Hey, if you get off on men 69-ing each other, I’m glad you were “right” about Borat. I’m happy not to share the taste (if you can call it that) of you and the film’s fans.
This episode seems uncannily similar to an op-ed that appeared in The Dartmouth Review, while it was piloted by Dinesh D’Souza. That op-ed essentially was written from the perspective of a newly admitted African-American student at Dartmouth, and laced with indecipherable ebonics.
http://www.dartreview.com/arch.....ve_bro.php
The difference is that the Dartmouth Review episode caused national uproar–a veritable orgy of righteous indignation; I doubt this will ruffle any feathers, given that it is still kosher to make fun of Asian-Americans and Arabs in the U.S.
A bit mean spirited and tasteless. I rather liked it.
Here is the article by the way
http://tinyurl.com/ywvjaj
Bad judgment and poor taste - yes. Other cultural and institutional issues in the article being overlooked for the obvious - yes. (same as the Dartmouth article - interesting link by the way - I had never heard of that incident…but then again I was 10 at the time and in Canada)
The writers should have known that there is really only one ‘group’ that it is politically acceptable to satire….
It that article is not allowed then jokes about Southerners should be right out also.
So I don’t want to hear or read anything about inbred, slack-jawed rednecks any more.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=516680
Some of you must think Jonathan Swift actually wanted English people to eat Irish children.
A guy gets a perfect score on the verbal section of the SAT and they mock him by having him use stereotypical FOB English?
Dear Mr. Jackson,
I initially wrote a rather hot-tempered and bellicose response to your comment #12. But I deleted that after having remembered that I made a vow to try to emulate Ben Franklin’s rhetorical approach after reading his Autobiography. Namely, that “the chief Ends of Conversation are to inform, or to be informed, to please or to persuade” and one must not assume the adversarial “Manner that seldom fails to disgust, tends to create Opposition, and to defeat every one of those Purposes.” Nonetheless, I will not try to aim for persuasion here, because I possess neither Franklin’s wisdom nor eloquence, and I also frankly think this is one of those problems where understanding or sympathy is not available unless you have experienced the wrong yourself. So I will be brief and to the point.
First, viscerally speaking, and for the record, I do not think the “parody” was funny at all, given that I have been jumped by neo-Nazi skinheads and subjected to much racist verbal abuse. In fact, you would be surprised how many Asian-American students have to put up with racist slurs in the very “tolerant” academic settings, similar to the ones this Princeton incident took place. In fact, the racial slurs I and my Asian-American friends heard at Dartmouth College were of the same variety as the slurs used in this “parody.” Hell, I had to even hear these racist remarks from a very old and old-fashioned white male professor! (And it’s too bad that I was a clueless freshman lamb, overawed by the venerable professor, as my Confucian upbringing taught me, when it happened, rather than the “rights-bearing” individual of today.)
Second, intellectually speaking, I cannot understand how someone who is otherwise so careful writer cannot see a distinction between regional stereotyping among white men and racial stereotyping of Asian (or other minority race) individuals by white men. How many southern men in America have been lynched by northern men, or otherwise brutalized, solely due to their place of origin? The distinction is nothing less than, to borrow from Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. (who is actually an old-fashioned patrician liberal and not exactly a race warrior), the distinction between cultural snobbery and hardcore racism.
In particular, what is particularly surprising about the tenor of your comment is that you too are a stranger in an alien land, potentially facing the same vulnerabilities as Asian-Americans do in the U.S. Perhaps the fact that you (as a white minority male in Korea) are not sufficiently aware of the vulernability attendant to living in Korea by your outsider status is a demonstration of the fact–in spite of the constant bleatings in the ex-pat blogosphere–the xenophobic Korea is more hospitable for outsiders (and certainly for white men) than the land of egalitarian empire?
Finally, I understand that this is “only online” (and a comment space at that), and people are not always inspired to etch their most rigorous thoughts or exacting prose on this medium. God knows I have said a lot of flippant and stupid things in the comment spaces here and elsewhere too. Nonetheless, I don’t think levity is warranted here.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion about Cohen’s comedy. Just don’t delude yourself into thinking everyone else shares it. Your cultural radar is just way out of wack. No shame in that.
Won Joon Choe - Try and keep references to D’Souza to a minimum. Anyone that writes a book about rap lyrics and Hollywood movies being responsible for 9/11 doesn’t even deserve acknowledgement.
You’d be surprised at how little SAT verbal scores and actual speaking/writing skills correlate among Asian students going to American Universities.
On a side note, there’s a tremendous amount of money to be made by whitey in Korea, just in writing college entrance essays for Korean students. And yes, 99% of those paying to have a native English speaker write for them got excellent scores on the SAT verbal, TOEFL, and TOEIC.
Well, I have not been keeping up with U.S. pop culture. But most of what I see I don’t like, so I cede the majority preference to you and like-minded “dumberdowners”. I won’t delude myself into thinking that the majority has a distaste for the lowbrow, juvenile, and unfunny and an appreciation for the cultured. Thanks for disabusing me of that notion.
So, what was it about a man shoving his face in the hairy asscrack of another man? Surely there’s no shame in finding pleasure in that. Maybe even humor.
I will admit the bit about the Jew egg was slightly amusing.
Stephen Colbert - dumberdowner
Ricky Gervais - dumberdowner
Matt Groening - dumberdowner
Trey Parker and Matt Stone - dumberdowners
Larry David - dumberdowner
Jon Stewart - dumberdowner
David Letterman - dumberdowner
Chris Rock - dumberdowner
Ben Stiller - dumberdowner
Dave Chappelle - dumberdowner
Gary Shandling - dumberdowner
What a bunch of lowbrow, juvenille, unfunny dumbasses those guys are. They’re all on the record as being fans of Borat, so they must be morons. If only they had dogbertt’s highbrow, wine-sipping, cultured view of comedy, they’d realize how stupid they are for finding Cohen funny.
Since you’re such a highminded scion of cultured and highbrow comedy, go ahead and give us the list of great comedy. What is it…Korean comics hitting each other with rubber hammers? British comics dressing up like the Queen? French comics acting like Jerry Lewis? I’m dying to know what kind of high-class comedy you’re so big on since it’s obvious that us crass, lowbrow Americans can’t meet your lofty standards.
I’m an American myself — I just don’t find men fellating each other funny. Time was, American men didn’t. I guess you’re of the new breed though.
If Larry David does, more power to him (and you). I’m sure he’s kicking himself for not having included such scenes in his own shows.
ihearthblueballs,
I see your dumbdowners and I match you with ‘Idiocracy’, which may be the most ironic movie ever made–although I’m not sure that’s how the director intended it to be.
It may be satire, but the article was still juvenile. It makes the institution look bad, as dogbertt was saying.
Yes dogbertt, I suck cocks by the truckload down by the overpass, and that’s why I found the film funny. As did the other 15 million plus who saw it. Cocksuckers every one, just dying to see all kinds of dicks being slobbered on in the theater. You make it sound like the entire film was a gay porn, which is not only stupid, it’s completely dishonest considering that took up about 10 seconds of 90 minutes and the scene was nothing like you described it. I’m sure you said the same thing to anyone that liked Pulp Fiction. “BUTTFUCKERS, every last one of you. That film was all man on man rape! How could you like such trash? John Wayne never sucked cock on screen. Time was, American men kept their blowjobs in private like they ought to be.” It makes you sound like someone who…how shall we say…might be a bit too similar to the military neighboor in American Beauty than he’d like to admit.
Once again, what’s your standard for funny? You made such a show of taking the cultural high ground, so let’s hear what stands behind your holier-than-thou attitude.
iheartblueballs wrote:
“Won Joon Choe - Try and keep references to D’Souza to a minimum. Anyone that writes a book about rap lyrics and Hollywood movies being responsible for 9/11 doesn’t even deserve acknowledgement.”
Eh, I am not sure why you are directing this at me? It’s not exactly I have a habit of citing D’Souza as an authority. to begin with, of my two years or so of commenting at the Marmot, this is the first time I’ve brought up D’Souza, and the reference only tangentially had to do with him.
But for the record, I’ve had dinner with D’Souza, read two of his books (Illiberal Education & The End of Racism), and I think I’d be spectacularly magnanimous in calling him an intellectual lightweight.
Won Joon Choe, I know it can tough at times and believe me I also attended some of the best univ. in America but you have to keep in mind that our older brothers and cousins had it worst and that it is much better than it used to be. Size also matters in America. I am 6 foot 2 inches tall and weigh 294 lbs (give or take) and have played football and rugby all my life and let me tell you I was intially bewildered about the racism stories experienced by so many American Koreans. But man, some times you got fight (very rare that I have been called chink but man those individual or groups never did again) to make it easier for the next generation. Keep your head up high and count your blessings. Being in Korea for a couple of years has convinced me that being raised in America has been way better in terms of being given a chance to make something of yourself. If I had been raised in Korea there would have been no way my poor family could have sent me to college, played leisure sports and experienced so much in life.
Dear Mister Choe,
Flippant reply:
I think levity is warranted here. Let’s hear that rather hot-and-bothered and bellicose response of yours. Too many “rigorous thoughts” give this good ol boy a headache.
Non-flippant reply:
Since you put some effort into your post, I will make a little bit of a longer reply (as much as preparing for my daughter’s dol will allow).
I certainly don’t condone skinheads or members of any other youth gangs conducting interracial violence (if for no other reason than self-preservation since whites are more likely to be vitims than perpetrators of interracial violence). In any case, I don’t see the connection between working-class toughs getting their kicks out of attacking folks and a group of (in all likelihood) upper crust pencil-necked geeks making a sophomoric attempt at humor except as an attempt to brandish the moral authority that some folks attached to victimhood.
The piece wasn’t funny (at least the small bit that I read) but nobody was called “nigger” (or “peckerwood” for that matter) and attempts to link this with lynching are overblown at best.
BTW, whites are not a monolith. I will let you in on a secret: There is no secret white club with a secret handshake. And don’t think that the hundred years or so of virtual economic colonization (from which those stereotypes of southerners developed) are nothing.
As for my status in Korea. I am aware that I am one confrontation with a drunk local from losing my job, having my bank account seized, and getting kicked out of the country. Luckily I am a confirmed house bear with remarkably weak Korean skills, so I avoid most drunks and am spared most racially-motivated remarks except the taunts of teenage boys.
As the husband of a lovely daughter who looks more Asian than anything else, I do worry about her being the victim of black or white (or any other non-Asian) racists, but this ain’t it.
Won Joon Choe, another thing to consider is that as bad as it gets for American Koreans is the fact [I stress fact] that the girls get the worst deal. At least guys can get in shape, learn to fight and use sports to bond with other guys. Girls if on the outs have little recourse but to bear it. I would defended more American girls back in my day if I could have but there was no way I could see myself hitting a girl even to help a girl. In a lot of high schools, like Annadale High in Virginia, girls who dated white guys were called sluts but Asian guys who did the same suffered little of the same stigma. And contrary to belief, the biggest fighters for Koreans are not necessarily Korean. Consider the mastermind behind the move to kill racial preferences in Cali and Michigan. The guy’s name is Ward Connelley [maybe mispelled] and he is black businessman from Cali. The end of racial preferences will benefit American Koreans tremendously.
How’d Johnathan Swift get hooked into this? Did he write “A Modest Proposal” in a phony ‘Mick’ accent and liberally pepper his work with references to eating potatoes, getting drunk, and beating women? It’s been a long time since I read the piece, so I don’t remember exactly.
Just because something is ‘protected free speech’ doesn’t mean we can’t call someone an asshole for saying it. Actually, under the basic premise of free speech, calling that person an asshole is pretty much protected free speech, as well. Free speech isn’t always in good taste. Some illustrations of ‘protected free speech’ that could be considered to be offensive or in bad taste:
A blackface minstrel show. The KKK website. Holocaust denial. Any of Shelton’s posts
Sure, I think you could argue that a minstrel show is just ’satire’ and is ‘protected free speech’, but I don’t think Princeton would win points with many people by staging one…
Andy - As the husband of a lovely daughter…
You do the southern man proud.
Zonath, per the Swift reference, read the link I posted.
I agree “Free speech isn’t always in good taste,” but you like others here are missing the point that the student’s paper wasn’t putting on a minstrel show but composing (with Asian writers involved) a targeted satire. Again, read the Crimson piece, which I think makes valid points.
I read the link you posted… The part where it really started to unravel for me is where the author used the word ‘liberal’ as an epithet.
Well, for the first part, the fact that there were Asian writers involved counts for exactly jack. For the second part, although I can maybe understand why these dumb-asses at Princeton felt compelled to lampoon someone who sued their university, it seems a bit disingenuous for them to claim that their piece was ‘just a satire’ when they honestly should have known better.
Speaking of underwhelming comedic efforts and ensiung controversy, what ever happened to the Pusan 9?
ensuing
seouldout,
Doh!
OK, I give up. Every bad stereotype of Southerners must be true. I guess I will never get a job when I get back to the States.
I happen to agree with dogberrt: Borat was spectacularly unfunny (I like his Ali G character much better) and this letter is a pure excuse for ’satire’. IMHO, satire works best when it is subtle and doesn’t have to beat your over the head to get its point across. This letter was not satire, but more like slapstick. Very lowbrow slapstick.
so sorry, that would be ‘poor excuse for satire’.
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