Comments on: Busan Nine in KT http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/ Korea... in Blog Format Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:43:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: NathanB http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60485 NathanB Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:18:06 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60485 Sanshinseon, I generally agree with your comment, but disagree with your first couple of sentences. The quotation in question was that volunteering constitutes "changing the purpose of their stay here." I don't see how that really makes any sense when the purpose of one's stay in Korea is employment. The point is: what makes volunteering any different than going to the store or going on an errand for one's friend? There is no money involved, no illegal employment at all, and no shady activity that would ordinarily go on. Volunteering cannot be reasonably classified as an activity outside the purpose of one's residency permit. On the other hand, I completely agree with your final comment about the total disincentive to volunteer. Sanshinseon, I generally agree with your comment, but disagree with your first couple of sentences. The quotation in question was that volunteering constitutes “changing the purpose of their stay here.” I don’t see how that really makes any sense when the purpose of one’s stay in Korea is employment. The point is: what makes volunteering any different than going to the store or going on an errand for one’s friend? There is no money involved, no illegal employment at all, and no shady activity that would ordinarily go on. Volunteering cannot be reasonably classified as an activity outside the purpose of one’s residency permit. On the other hand, I completely agree with your final comment about the total disincentive to volunteer.

]]> By: sanshinseon http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60457 sanshinseon Thu, 28 Dec 2006 07:21:24 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60457 Volunteering would indeed not be "a change in that persons purpose for coming to Korea", and the authorities have never said that it was. It is an Activity other than or outside of the purpose for which they gave that person a Visa to live here -- for which official permission must be granted. I suppose that jodi is correct above that these restrictions have something to do with quality-control -- if you try to get permission for an Activity that you are not judged qualified for -- by your current visa-status, it may be denied. Sometimes that has absurd results -- i spent many years here as an English teacher, but then switched by Visa to an E-7 in order to work for the Ministry of Tourism; when i later applied for permission to teach an English class in the evening as a side-job, they told me that i was not qualified to teach English, being on an E-7... Something that no one has mentioned here is that getting this special permission for "extra" activities costs a lot -- they charge w60,000 and maybe more. That factor will probably result in less people doing volunteer work than otherwise would... not decisive, not just a discouraging factor. Volunteering would indeed not be “a change in that persons purpose for coming to Korea”, and the authorities have never said that it was. It is an Activity other than or outside of the purpose for which they gave that person a Visa to live here — for which official permission must be granted. I suppose that jodi is correct above that these restrictions have something to do with quality-control — if you try to get permission for an Activity that you are not judged qualified for — by your current visa-status, it may be denied.

Sometimes that has absurd results — i spent many years here as an English teacher, but then switched by Visa to an E-7 in order to work for the Ministry of Tourism; when i later applied for permission to teach an English class in the evening as a side-job, they told me that i was not qualified to teach English, being on an E-7…

Something that no one has mentioned here is that getting this special permission for “extra” activities costs a lot — they charge w60,000 and maybe more. That factor will probably result in less people doing volunteer work than otherwise would… not decisive, not just a discouraging factor.

]]> By: Zonath http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60383 Zonath Thu, 28 Dec 2006 00:59:36 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60383 <blockquote>What about being in a pool, dart or football league? These leagues collect dues, have bank accounts and give awards including cash. Is this against the VISA rules? How about a dart or pool tournament where there is an entry fee and the winners collect CASH for their efforts?</blockquote> I'm not entirely sure about this, but doesn't that constitute gambling, which would be illegal for pretty much anyone outside of a casino?

What about being in a pool, dart or football league? These leagues collect dues, have bank accounts and give awards including cash. Is this against the VISA rules? How about a dart or pool tournament where there is an entry fee and the winners collect CASH for their efforts?

I’m not entirely sure about this, but doesn’t that constitute gambling, which would be illegal for pretty much anyone outside of a casino?

]]> By: jodi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60361 jodi Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:18:46 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60361 My guess concerning any regulations regarding volunteering at orphanages are that they are probably well-grounded as long as they are not singling out foreigners. My hope is that when it comes to volunteering with children, unlike hakwons, not just anyone can do it for a whole slew of reasons including the risk of child abuse, sexual crimes or simply inexperience dealing with children which could lead to harm, even unintentional harm. As for the US military's tradition of having folks volunteer at orphanages, it might be worth mentioning that the military probably has a long-time relationship with specific orphanages in Korea and should something go wrong, it would be very easy to track down who the offender was and punish them whereas letting any old joe off the street into the premises would bring up a variety of risks. In my opinion, as one who has actually been involved with local orphanages in Korea and who konws the director of one such institution, Koreans' shame regarding its adoption history is a reality but I think those who have this shame are <b>not</b> the ones running the orphanages. My guess concerning any regulations regarding volunteering at orphanages are that they are probably well-grounded as long as they are not singling out foreigners.

My hope is that when it comes to volunteering with children, unlike hakwons, not just anyone can do it for a whole slew of reasons including the risk of child abuse, sexual crimes or simply inexperience dealing with children which could lead to harm, even unintentional harm.

As for the US military’s tradition of having folks volunteer at orphanages, it might be worth mentioning that the military probably has a long-time relationship with specific orphanages in Korea and should something go wrong, it would be very easy to track down who the offender was and punish them whereas letting any old joe off the street into the premises would bring up a variety of risks.

In my opinion, as one who has actually been involved with local orphanages in Korea and who konws the director of one such institution, Koreans’ shame regarding its adoption history is a reality but I think those who have this shame are not the ones running the orphanages.

]]> By: cm http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60329 cm Wed, 27 Dec 2006 17:53:45 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60329 <blockquote>They’re also embarrassed about the orphans because one of the most cherished myths of Koreanness is the myth that no mother’s love is like a Korean mother’s.</blockquote> They have every right to be embarassed about this kind of <blockquote>shameful</blockquote> record in the country. Wouldn't you be too if your country was exporting its unwanted babies?

They’re also embarrassed about the orphans because one of the most cherished myths of Koreanness is the myth that no mother’s love is like a Korean mother’s.

They have every right to be embarassed about this kind of

shameful

record in the country. Wouldn’t you be too if your country was exporting its unwanted babies?

]]> By: cm http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60326 cm Wed, 27 Dec 2006 17:44:08 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60326 <blockquote>I wonder if the orphans actually have anything at all to do with this state of affairs.</blockquote> No it doesn't, you're correct of course. It was just an example used by one of the officials to show that any kind of volunteering (not just in the orphanages) without permit is illegal.

I wonder if the orphans actually have anything at all to do with this state of affairs.

No it doesn’t, you’re correct of course. It was just an example used by one of the officials to show that any kind of volunteering (not just in the orphanages) without permit is illegal.

]]> By: Herod http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60319 Herod Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:45:04 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60319 They're also embarrassed about the orphans because one of the most cherished myths of Koreanness is the myth that no mother's love is like a Korean mother's. They’re also embarrassed about the orphans because one of the most cherished myths of Koreanness is the myth that no mother’s love is like a Korean mother’s.

]]> By: Benicio74 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60314 Benicio74 Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:30:13 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60314 Koreans are very embarrassed to be known as a huge baby exporting nation beacause it makes them seem 3rd world. However, it is a "necessary evil" because these orphans are certainly not going to be adopted by Koreans. They would certainly rather that we do as they do- pretend the issue doesn't exist. Koreans are very embarrassed to be known as a huge baby exporting nation beacause it makes them seem 3rd world.
However, it is a “necessary evil” because these orphans are certainly not going to be adopted by Koreans.

They would certainly rather that we do as they do- pretend the issue doesn’t exist.

]]> By: Benicio74 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60313 Benicio74 Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:25:04 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60313 Imagine that- a contradiction in Korea! That almost never happens! This be the land of Kontradictions! Imagine that- a contradiction in Korea!
That almost never happens!

This be the land of Kontradictions!

]]> By: a-letheia http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60312 a-letheia Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:21:59 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/12/27/busan-nine-in-kt/#comment-60312 I wonder if the orphans actually have anything at all to do with this state of affairs. The police perhaps are simply suspicious that the foreigner is getting PAID to read poetry, play in bands, feed orphans, and do skits (while selling beer--Heh, that still makes me laugh). In that case the E-2 visa is breached. I wonder if the orphans actually have anything at all to do with this state of affairs. The police perhaps are simply suspicious that the foreigner is getting PAID to read poetry, play in bands, feed orphans, and do skits (while selling beer–Heh, that still makes me laugh). In that case the E-2 visa is breached.

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