A government source told Yonhap that it looks like transfer of the U.S. garrison at Yongsan to Pyeongtaek, originally scheduled to take place in 2007, would be delayed by five years to late 2013.
A source from one of the related government ministries said the possibility of completing the transfer by 2008 as scheduled was currently low, and that Korean government ministries handling the move were actively discussing a plan to delay the transfer from Yongsan and the competition of new base facilities in Pyeongtaek to 2013.
The government will reportedly announce this plan sometime next week.
The source said the change in schedule was necessary due to delays in discussions between authorities connected to the move and setbacks caused by protests from residents and civic groups.
Needless to say, this might cause problems with Seoul City, which is banking on turning Yongsan into a massive downtown park.
Interestingly enough, nowhere in the piece did it say the Americans had been informed of these discussions. I can’t imagine they’ll be too thrilled when they are, although the Itaewon chamber of commerce will be tickled pink.
At this point, I am reminded of what one U.S. officer told the New York Times in 2004:
“I bet my paycheck that while I am in the Army it [the Yongsan move] will never happen,” said one American officer here. “Twenty years from now, I will still be reading about it. It is a great political platform for some people. It’s a self-licking ice cream cone.”
Of course, the Pentagon could cut through the delays by simply announcing that Yongsan would be relocated to Guam rather than Pyeongtaek. But with Rummy gone, the chances of that happening are probably even slimmer than they were. And why do I get the sneaking suspicion Seoul’s announcing this now because of the change at the Pentagon?
36 Comments
“Yongsan and the competition of new base facilities in Pyeongtaek to 2013.” Don’t you mean the “completion” of new base facilities?
I thought it was rather obvious that the move was going to be delayed. With all the protests slowing things down, they’ve barely broken ground.
So maybe the Defense Ministry is trying to stall this? I can’t imagine the Roh gov’t delaying the move although nothing they do makes sense, so I guess it’s possible.
With Rummy gone Korea can go back to its schizo “go away, stay here” mode with the U.S.
i was suprised that they were on schedule as well.
priceless.
Roh Tae Woo tried to move the Yongsan garrison but the plan fell through when the ROK government saw the bill.
I doubt the second Roh will be any different.
mins0306, they’ll go ahead with the project…I’m just not convinced it was ever was meant to house the USFK.
Besides, delays are nothing new. I can think of at least to other large projects that seem to be taking way more time to complete than they should.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incheon_Airport_Train
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Train_Express
This is a transparent attempt on the Korean side to effect a delay in return of complete military control from the US to Korea that they’ve been whingeing about in the name of independence, pride, balh, blah, blah, but which they quickly backed off of when the US indicated that it was more than willing to grant their wish more or less immediately (given the bureacratic realities on the US side of physically effecting the withdrawal). The US should take advantgae of this to abandon the Ptaek move, save the money involved and accelerate complete BOTG withdrawal to make greater savings and free up military resources for missions that better serve US interests and more deserving allies.
If Rummsfeld was still in charge USFK would be gone if this delay is true. It will be interesting to see what the new Pentagon leadership does. It will also be interesting to see what General Bell says when he hears this news because I’m willing to bet he won’t be to pleased.
Robert, I’m curious as to why you think the Americans “won’t be too thrilled” when they here this. If the US wanted the headquarters moved to Pyeongtaek they would have paid for the move already. They wanted the 2ID move to happen and they ponied up the dough for it. So far, I believe the US has simply gone along with the ROK government’s rhetoric. They have always caveated the “agreement to move” as pending agreement on funding. That funding hasn’t taken place. As long as operational authority remains with the US they have no tactical or financial interest in moving out of the capital and away from MND.
US viewpoint: if the ROKs want us in Pyeongtaek they will pay for it.
My own viewpoint: The ROKs are just hoping the US will cave and pay for what could ultimately be a modern, high-tech, superbase for the ROKs after the US leaves when wartime operational authority has been transferred.
In any event, it will happen in the order of operational control transfer first, followed by moving yongsan assets (whatever is left) to Pyeongtaek.
“The ROKs are just hoping the US will cave and pay for what could ultimately be a modern, high-tech, superbase for the ROKs after the US leaves when wartime operational authority has been transferred.”
Bingo!
Guess who will get all the flack for it? The US, of course.
It’s Machiavellian plan.
This move was never going to happen by 2007-2008. That is only what the ROK’s told the public. The Americans who work on base all knew the timeline to move there was to be closer 2012. It is physically impossible to accomplish the infrastructre needed in time. This is NOT a surprise to people in the USFK. It is just a public announcement of something most people knew from the onset.
Gerno, I think everyone who watches TV knew it wouldn’t be done by 2007. The evidence that 2007 was a lie is all over the news for everyone to see.
The entire USFK is a giant self licking ice-cream cone. They do nothing that they wouldn’t have to do if they weren’t here to begin with. Training is a joke, and so is the commands phillosophy towards its soldiers.
I understand GI Koreas point of view that Rummy would pull all USFK out upon this news were he still in office, but realistically nothing would happen. Whoever is in charge will jut give more empty words, more righteous anger, and then nothing will happen. Same as always. Nothing cahnges. No-one really has a set of balls, not even Bell, politics won’t allow it.
I can’t imagine anyone in Pyongtaek likes this. If the hordes of soldiers are there, then at least they’re spending money. What could be worse from a business/real estate standpoint than having the hordes of soldiers constantly on the horizon?
I think Rummy made huge progress at changing the self licking ice cream cone despite the Korean government’s efforts to stop him. I think General Bell really want’s to change things as well but he can’t do it himself and like CPT BBQ said it is going to take people with balls at not only the Pentagon but also the White House to change things. Say what you want about Rummy but he had balls.
like was mentioned earlier USFK members new this move wasn’t going to happen till 2012 and I’ve been told it by many people there. There are many projects currently under construction on Yongsan, and the hotel is under renovations. If they were going to turn it over next year would they really worry about constructing new buildings? Alot of hot air is being blown up someones arse
i dont know how long some of you have lived here but Yongsan moving was a big topic back in 93-94 when i was a young private in the army
it died down after all the nuke concerns went away when slick willie paid em to stop making nukes
yeah that worked well
i agree on one thing the base isnt moving with in the next few years!!
komtengi, the USFK is playing hardball. I was told by someone that the USFK isn’t planning on moving to Pyongtaek at the moment. Instead, they have begun taking steps to leave for good…and will continue doing so unless the South Korean government stops hounding them about paying for the new base.
heh, im cheering.
SomeguyinKorea, yes there is a possibility that it will go ahead, but there is also the possibility that it will get cancelled.
And if it is pushed to 2013, then it will fall upon the next administration(which will be GNP) to complete the project. And knowing the GNP’s position on Yongsan, they
might quietly convince the US to leave the Yongsan garrison where it is.
mins0306, yes, that is very much a possiblity. The Uri party may well want it canceled if they have to foot the whole bill, but doesn’t want to get blammed for it. Both sides are playing a waiting game (kind of like the Canadian government waiting for a Democrat to win the next elections in the States before decriminalizing marijuana).
All your bsae are belong to us.
hmm. It looks like plans made by Roh based on pre-nuclear DPRK assumptions got thrown out the window once KJI popped it.
It’s probably in the national interest of ROK to have US command in the capital. “Push” the date back to save political face. And as someone points out, once GNP comes in and reverses policy, Uri can spend all day attacking GNP for “kow towing” to the Americans. But what the heck, kim jong il won’t last that long. And once the war is over, it would be nice to have prime real estate.
It’s a winning strategy for Roh Moo Hyun.
I’m blowing a gasket trying to understand this one. OK, you have some pro-Nork, Sheehan-attended protests and construction is a little late getting off the ground. But, how do you go from an original plan of being ready in 2008–let’s be charitable and say December 2008,which is 24 months from now–to all of a sudden being ready in 2013, over 72 months from now? Where does this magical delay come from? Was it planned all along?
Time to tell them that if Pyeongtak isn’t ready in ‘08, they’ll head all the way to Guam, Schofield or Ft. Lewis.
This is certainly what will happen, if the GNP indeed goes ahead, but its doubtful that this is the explanation for URI’s policy of delay.
Moreover, even though their rhetoric will be very different, GNP is not likely to want to move significantly more quickly on the transfer to Ptaek. At the end of the day, they are equally allergic to bearing the cost. And because they are also equally allergic to footing the full freight for their own defense,(just as they are committed to neo-mercantilist in the commercial sphere). they will do whatever they can to string out the day of reckoning by walking a policy and rhetorical tightrope between accomodating US interests and accomplishing the universal Korean policy, common to all parties, of getting a free, or at least a substantially cheaper, ride courtesy of the American taxpayer and American armed forces.
How DID Brer Rabbit get clear of the tar baby?
Can the US disentangle itself from a South Korea that has adroitly made itself into a tar baby and had some assistance on the process from Brer Fox to the north?
Or, when the GNP does get back in, will the US be lulled into thinking it isn’t getting shamelessly used by the skill with which the GNP can play at the game of feigning subservience. CF Tao Te Ching 61.
This gives me a better idea of your position than at DPRK Studies, but I’ll stick to the same theme I had over there. I don’t buy it.
It has been clear since 2000 that USFK has been pushing both the Yongsan and general realignment of USFK. None of these things were new, but USFK actually cranking up the drive to get the Land Partnership Plan implemented and momentum into the Yongsan relocation was clear and set South Korea off on its ear.
The line about “if USFK wanted it, they would pay for it” doesn’t work for me for a reason someone above pointed out - why would the US agree to pay billons of dollars to build a 21st century military HQ that it might move out of a couple of years later if the North collapses or the US decides to get out?
Moving 2ID of the DMZ made good sense for the US side whether it planned to stay in Korea indefinately or planned to get out sooner rather than later. Getting Yongsan out does make “tactical sense” for some of the same reasons - namely Seoul’s proximity to the DMZ and NK artillery - but removing Yongsan would take creating a state-of-the-art HQ to replace it, and it just never made sense for the US to build that if it had in mind it wouldn’t be around 10-20 years from now.
So the fact the US isn’t paying for the move does not translate to me into the US never intending to move in the first place….not even close.
The other argument someone above added also doesn’t work for me having looked at the US-SK relationship for awhile — that the fact USFK has new construction going on and is remodeling other structures at Yongsan is “proof” they never intended to leave.
Good gravey —- how would things look differently in South Korea today if over the last 50 years the US side had only made plans that considered one outcome? if the US had not kept in mind different factors and outcomes based on what it is like trying to coordinate plans with the South Korean side…..
If USFK had made plans along the lines of what some of you are suggesting, NK should have invaded again long ago, because the resulting US-SK defense posture would have been chaotic and highly ineffective.
komtengi
They are fixing a leaky roof at the DHL, don’t read into that. The fact that improvements have been on-going everywhere else is more important.
that was just one example..
I met the guy who gets the construction contracts on them..he mentioned 2012
if the Korean GOV really wants the US Military out of Korea, then they WILL find the money. apparently Korea can’t seem to make up their mind or let go of the protection we provide for them. let’s face it, the ROK military is at an infant stage… they’re not ready to let go and walk the walk. they sure do talk the talk… but it a lot of hot air. make up your minds!
I think they should move the base back to the US. That way soldiers won’t have to think about being deployed to such an ungrateful country. Yes, I know not all Korean’s are that way, but let’s face it, most younger Koreans don’t appreciate the truth about how there country achieved and maintains it prosperity until something happens with the NORKS. I like what David Hackworth (RIP)had to say about Korea in his book HAZARDOUS DUTY.
I have to agree with the key event being the departure of Rumsfeld; in his absence I have no confidence that Pres Bush will get engaged in this issue, though I will watch with interest future developments/pronoucements during the upcoming Korean esidential election year.
I think a future “President Hillary Clinton” would also find it politically convenient to let things go stringing along as they are now, assuming no “drastic” changes in the situation.
But — a future President Giuliani, or even better Pres McCain! In these cases I hope for some personal Presidential involvement/ interest in this issue, with an eye to getting the US out of the center of the Korean problem.
And thus putting the onus for it where it belongs — on the back of the ROK goverment (regardless of party), and that means on the backs of the ROK citizens who vote and who (presumably) should be the ones to man the armed forces responsible for its defense — especially the entirety of its ground defense.
I’ve always said the power of the status quo is great. It never seems easy to wipe away mammoth bureacracies and such.
I never believed the US would be out even with Rumsfeld in office, because disconnecting would clearly take longer than the Bush term, and it is too easy to change course to return to the status quo unless a tipping point has been reached, and today, I don’t think we have passed or even gotten close to a tipping point.
Sooo, why in the frigging hell did they send Seoul based metro/combat police to pyeontaek, if they weren’t going to build it anyway? It just makes me angry.
Ah, but now the plot thickens………….
http://times.hankooki.com/lpag.....111990.htm
All I can say is that all the Canadian ET’s and eurorash have to wait a little longer to own Itaewon. Admit it, thats the reason you want USFK to move to Pyongtaek or leave completly
Trust me when I say the the USFK wants to get out of the middle of Seoul. It makes no since to be here anymore. Logistically a nightmare, too much bad publicity, too expensive.
Also, there is no new constuction happening on Yongsan. Only repairs on existing buildings are authorized. The USFK is moving out of Seoul one way or another. It may be to Pyongtaek or Ft. Hood, but they want to and will be leaving Seoul. As far as money goes, don’t be surprised if the ROK Military (they claim ownership)gets their wish and sells off the land on Yongsan for apartments and other lucrative contruction to help pay for the move. Land prices outside gate 19 (Sinyongsan St) are going for 80,000,000won per pyong right now. Just think what they could get for the actual green ground.
Here’s the thing, Yongsan has been supposedly going to move to Pyongtaek for over 20 years now. When I was first in Korea and stationed at Camp Humphreys in 1983 we heard rumors that the move would take place before the Asian Games in 1986. A new 4-lane drive in gate was constructed, a lot of housing construction went on in Anjungni, then ZILCH! Money has always been the big sticking issue with the Koreans. They want the base out of Seoul they just don’t want to have to pay for it. Chances are, this move will only take place as a part of more troops leaving the peninsula or not at all.
3 Trackbacks
[...] Will this be the straw that broke the camel’s back of the US-ROK Alliance? From the Marmot’s Hole: A government source told Yonhap that it looks like transfer of the U.S. garrison at Yongsan to Pyeongtaek, originally scheduled to take place in 2007, would be delayed by five years to late 2013. [...]
[...] The Korean Defense Ministry is now saying that it may delay the move, of U.S. Army forces out of Seoul and North Korean artillery range, from 2008 to 2012. I tend to agree with what Richardson, GI Korea, and Robert Koehler say about this, and will refer you to their posts to the extent you haven’t already read them. Beyond my general agreement that 2008 clearly wasn’t going to happen, I’ll only add some observations that aren’t reduntant to theirs. [...]
[...] He also said he was surprised by Korean press reports (like this) claiming it would be impossible to move the bases by 2008. Expressing concern about those reports, he said they [the reports] were news to him and not the schedule Korea and the United States agreed to. [...]