Well-spoken on most of your posts! I also have family members who lived through the Japanese colonization, and let me tell you they were NOT happy about being forced to change their names from Korean ones to Japanese ones NOR were they happy about being forced to study Japanese in school.

I don’t know why the bitter people like Gbevers and the right-wing Japanese have to spread lies about their past. It really isn’t helping relations at all.

Robert Koehler you have no idea what youre talking about.

OK, if you say so. And please, feel free to call me Robert.

You openly admit that japans apologies are questionably in sincerity.

Yes, I did. But I also said an insincere apology is better than no apology at all, which is just how many apologies the United States, Britain, France and Russia have given their former colonies.

Its like kicking my dog and then apologizing to me while spitting on my dog.

Or eating it (sorry, couldn’t resist. Besides, my birthday is coming up, so I’ve got bosintang on my mind)

Korea and Chinese doesn’t like the the way Yasunki shrine is used. It has requested many many times for the shrine to remove all war criminals within it.

So what? Egypt has asked Britain to return all the shit in the British museum it stole while running the place, and the British told them to bugger off. Ditto the French when the Koreans asked for the Ganghwa-do archives back. In other words, just because a former colony asks you to do something doesn’t mean the former metropol has to listen.

Yet the Japanese has refused to do so thanks to its incredibly influential extreme right wingers. An apology is a true apology when it is sincere.

Both parts are true. And neither detract from my point—that Western powers have no right to judge Japan for the manner in which it handles—or doesn’t handle—its imperial past. The fact that former Western imperial powers—unlike Japan—have issued not even an insincere apology for colonialism is due to incredibly influential lobbies that are still very proud of their colonial legacy and, perhaps more importantly, don’t want to get hosed with paying financial restitution.

Great Britain abolished slavery themselves, they ended the trade and ended up combating them. They set up laws to make blacks equal and now they teach their children that slavery is wrong as well as the negative aspects of slavery, imperialism and belief in supremacy. They set up laws to make blacks equal and now they teach their children that slavery is wrong as well as the negative aspects of slavery, imperialism and belief in supremacy. Apologies are mere words if you don’t act them out.

Whether the West teaches that imperialism is wrong is highly, highly debatable. France, for example, felt it necessary to pass a law demanding that schools teach the positive aspects of French colonialism. My school textbooks didn’t harp on all the nastiness the U.S. did in the Philippines—I had to wait till university to get a real exposure to what went on. And the British? Sure, like most Western countries, the British would probably agree that it wouldn’t be right to go around colonizing half the planet now, but are the British sorry for what they did in Africa? India? Ireland? If so, where’s the apology? They won’t even apologize for the slave trade. Not even the Germans, who you’d think were the world masters of the art of apology, have shown any inclination to apologize for acts of borderline genocide in German Southwest Africa (present-day Namibia) prior to WW I. Yes, apologies are mere words without the acts to back them up, but a refusal to apologize is a refusal to accept responsibility for acts, regardless of how much you may or may not teach schoolchildren that bad things happened in Ireland or India during the colonial period. What that amounts to is “Well, it would be wrong today, but back then it was OK.” If that sounds familiar to what the Japanese right says, it should. Not even the wackjob running Tokyo is calling for Japanese troops to recolonize Korea and Manchuria; what they debate is the propriety of colonialism at the time it was done as well as claim—like many Americans would in regards to the Philippines or Europeans would in regard to their former colonies—that they did a lot of good things in their imperial posessions. Certainly you don’t believe that it’s only in Japan where the “white man’s burden” (or “yellow man’s burden,” as it were in this case) still retains a hold on society’s collective memory?

You cant compare this to the west because quite frankly in the west it would not be tolerated. And tell me when was Admiral Nelson considerd a class A, B or C war criminal? Admiral Nelson has a museum because he made Britain a seafearing power and its greatest admiral.

Admiral Nelson wasn’t classified a war criminal because a) he won and b) the legal concept of “war crime” wasn’t really in place prior to 1905, and “crimes against peace” and “crimes against humanity” until 1945. There is also c) he died in battle and d) Nelson, as far as I know, didn’t do anything that would remotely be considered a war crime, although he did serve an imperialist regime and was promoted by said regime as a national hero. I brought it up simply to show that not only did colonizers build monuments to their imperial heros, they occassionally did so right in the heart of the colonies themselves—despite “many requests” (to paraphrase you) by Dublin’s citizens to have the offensive monument removed, it stayed just where it was until the IRA took it upon itself to perform a little urban renewal of its own in ‘66. But since you brought it up, how abouts Stone Mountain? Monument Avenue? Stonewall Jackson Shrine? Jackson Memorial Hall at VMI? Or how about my personal favorite, the (read the post) Lincoln Memorial? I mean, sure, all those visitors go to the Lincoln Memorial out of respect for all the nice things Honest Abe did, like free the slaves and keep the Union together. They don’t celebrate him as the man who oversaw the invention of “total war” as one of his generals cut a path of destruction through Georgia and the Carolinas… a man who’d have certainly been convicted as a war criminal had he lived today. But really, does it make a difference? I’m sure Koizumi didn’t go to Yasukuni to praise Tojo Hideki for Nanjing and the comfort women. Doesn’t make Tojo any less a war criminal, does it?  Or make praying at the shrine any less offensive.

And as for the rest, yes, you’re right—despite the fact that, for example, the British Museum is the biggest collection of stolen goods in the world and could, for all intents and purposes, be seen as a monument to the Empire, it is not, in and of itself, a shrine to Britain’s imperial past. That’s what the Imperial War Museum if for, after all! Ooo, here’s a Mau Mau revolver—no white-washing or distortions in that account of the Kenyan Emergency. Hmmm, interesting take on the Rhodesian War. In fact, here the whole online collection concerning the Commonwealth and decolonization—let me know when you find anything resembling reflection and profound regret over Britain’s colonial misdeads.

First let me point out your bias. You use a Japanese site which claims that Koreans wernt forced to changed their names. Japanese sites also claim that colonial rule was heaven and that the nanking massacre didn’t occur. Funny how you use one and only one Japanese site in an attempt to prove your argument on Korean names.

Why don’t you go read those laws. Ordinance 19 and 20 forced people to change their names. It cant get any more obvious then that.

If you don’t know what the library of congress is here is a definition-

“The Library of Congress is the de facto national library of the United States and the research arm of the United States Congress. It is one of the largest and most important libraries in the world.”

And heres the link from the library of congress which states that Koreans were forced to change their names.

http://countrystudies.us/south-korea/7.htm
——–
Look at these links which states that Koreans were forced to change their names

http://www.zmag.org/Japan/Society/Apartheid1.html
http://www.aasianst.org/EAA/lostname.htm
http://www.japanfocus.org/products/details/2220
http://www.usjp.org/jpeducatio.....ocId930152
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/ea...../kp_11.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor.....268800.stm
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/ea.....rld_hi.htm
http://www.wcities.com/en/guid.....guide.html

I can find hundreds of sites which state the well established fact that Koreans were forced to change their names. The only sites your going find on your claims come from history revisionist sites from Japan. You know the same sites who make preposterous claims that no one in the international comunit accepts. The international community agrees that Koreans were forced to change their names. The only people denying this happen to be Japanese nationalist or the morons who believe in them because they hate korea or happen to be japanophiles. Just like how all scientists today agree that global warming is real excluding those who work for or paid handsomely by oil companies.

Not to mention the hundreds, thousands of books on Japanese colonization which states that Japan forced Koreans to adopt Japanese names. So are you telling me that my family members who lived during Japanese occupation(unlike yours) are a bunch of liars. Are you telling me that my families neighbors or the millions who actually lived during colonial rule(unlike you or your family) are all a bunch of liars? So who am I going to believe? The Koreans who lived during Japanese colonialism or a poorly made Japanese site with a reputation for lieing and distorting history? Hmmm tough call. Who should we believe, the hundreds of western historians and professors or some douche from a Japanese website? Do you know what Doublespeak is? Well, Japan is nation built on double speak. Anyone whos been to japan knows what I mean. They say something yet its intentions mean something else. Your one of those idiots who actually believes what Japan says rather then its true intentions. Japans claim for its greater east asian sphere was a doublespeak. The same goes for its colonization for Korea(which japan claims was to help Korea rather then enslave and crush) The same goes for its apologies or its histories. Too bad you don’t know what im talking about because youre dim witted.
Heres some advice for you. Close internet explorer. Delete all files in your computer. Get a hammer and bash your computer until its no longer recognizable. Go outside. Dig a hole and bury yourself.

Its good to see a poster on marmot hole with common sense. Koreans are not seeking another dishonest twisted apology from japan. No one is more sick of them then Korea and China. What Korea wants is action. Can you really call it an apology when your government still discriminates against Koreans, lies to its people, distorts and denies its history and worships war criminals? Its not that hard to distinguish between honesty and sincerity vs deception and lies. Korea and China wants Japans words to match its actions. It wants Japan to quit distorting and lieing about history. Take out the war criminals at Yasukuni. Recognize its crimes rather than denying them. Maybe then will Korea try to move on. Although Japan isn’t helping with its issues on dokdo and the east sea. As well as its numerous provocations. Contrary to popular belief its Japan not Korea that makes a fuss out of everything and starts insulting the other side for no reason. Remember that book “hate korea wave” which bashed Korea simply they were Koreans.

Korea is increasing its GDP(although Roh isn’t helping) and will soon catch up and surpass japans GDP per capita(currently 22,600 vs. 31,600). Do you really think it’s a good idea for everyone to ignore japan and allow it to do whatever it wants. That would be a Japanese right wingers dream come true. And the last thing anyone wants is more right winger extremist.

If porn was readily available on the streets, shops, newspapers etc then people wouldn’t rely on the internet as much. Korea has a very high internet connection rate, as well as hundreds if not thousands of PC rooms offering internet connection. Not to mention the freedom and anonymity they have once they are on the internet.

Not the right to determine their nation’s future, certainly?

Koreans were elected as an congressman. There were many Korean governers.

But to claim that the colonial period was good for Korea, that Koreans should be grateful to Japan etc, is a little much in the opposite direction.

I agree.It is regreatable that a few Japanese speak that way.It is also regreatable that a few Koean think Japan should be greatful for what Korea brought for Japan in ancient times.
Both of them should move on.

What happened to them was still horrible, no?

If Blacks had equal right as their master, that wasn’t horrible yes?
Koreans had equal rights as Japanese.