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	<title>Comments on: No hard feelings</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Wed,  9 Jul 2008 16:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Paul H.</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57626</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57626</guid>
		<description>Hugh #14, Ref: what the soldiers' "jobs" are:

The quote from the Stars &#38; Stripes article: "...officials said two soldiers belonging to a subordinate unit of the 19th Sustainment Command (Expeditionary) were under investigation."  

Hadn't heard of this before so I spend some time on line checking out "sustainment command (expeditionary)". I had an idea what it would be already of course, figured it was a redesignation/ slight reorganiation of Army combat service support branches. 

Almost certainly this is an 8th Army level unit which includes logistics specialty subunits, probably one or more each of a battalion (or maybe just a separate company) of the following: 

1) quartermaster (supply corps), 
2) transportation (heavy trucks), and 
3) ordnance (not just ammunition supply, but also higher-echelon maintenance specialties for the vast variety of Army equipment present in 8th Army).  

So probably these two had some military occupational specialty related to one of these areas.  But it could be even something else besides this, though probably still "rear-echelon" (ie they could work in a maint unit's personnel admin section, holding a "personnel" MOS).  

Set aside any mental image you might have of combat arms soldiers being the "carnivores" and the "rear-echelon" types being the "herbivores".  You'll find plenty of cocksure young guys who lift weights and/or play sports in all Army units; indeed, commonly the "garrison" type units do better at intramural unit sports, given that they spend far less time "in the field" and thus have more time to practice.  

Never was stationed in Korea but it's my understanding that taekwondo teams/clubs are common throughout USFK.  One might guess that these two weren't active in TKD or something similar, given what is commonly understood about the mental discipline that is supposed to be taught in martial arts, overridingly (though concurrent) with the physical training. But of course all I know (as regards exact indiv circumstances) is what I read in the papers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugh #14, Ref: what the soldiers&#8217; &#8220;jobs&#8221; are:</p>
<p>The quote from the Stars &amp; Stripes article: &#8220;&#8230;officials said two soldiers belonging to a subordinate unit of the 19th Sustainment Command (Expeditionary) were under investigation.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Hadn&#8217;t heard of this before so I spend some time on line checking out &#8220;sustainment command (expeditionary)&#8221;. I had an idea what it would be already of course, figured it was a redesignation/ slight reorganiation of Army combat service support branches. </p>
<p>Almost certainly this is an 8th Army level unit which includes logistics specialty subunits, probably one or more each of a battalion (or maybe just a separate company) of the following: </p>
<p>1) quartermaster (supply corps),<br />
2) transportation (heavy trucks), and<br />
3) ordnance (not just ammunition supply, but also higher-echelon maintenance specialties for the vast variety of Army equipment present in 8th Army).  </p>
<p>So probably these two had some military occupational specialty related to one of these areas.  But it could be even something else besides this, though probably still &#8220;rear-echelon&#8221; (ie they could work in a maint unit&#8217;s personnel admin section, holding a &#8220;personnel&#8221; MOS).  </p>
<p>Set aside any mental image you might have of combat arms soldiers being the &#8220;carnivores&#8221; and the &#8220;rear-echelon&#8221; types being the &#8220;herbivores&#8221;.  You&#8217;ll find plenty of cocksure young guys who lift weights and/or play sports in all Army units; indeed, commonly the &#8220;garrison&#8221; type units do better at intramural unit sports, given that they spend far less time &#8220;in the field&#8221; and thus have more time to practice.  </p>
<p>Never was stationed in Korea but it&#8217;s my understanding that taekwondo teams/clubs are common throughout USFK.  One might guess that these two weren&#8217;t active in TKD or something similar, given what is commonly understood about the mental discipline that is supposed to be taught in martial arts, overridingly (though concurrent) with the physical training. But of course all I know (as regards exact indiv circumstances) is what I read in the papers.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57589</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 04:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57589</guid>
		<description>I heard that my former taekwondo instructor here in Korea, a former full-contact champion (long before the creation of the pussy footing olympic taekwondo), was specifically instructed by the police to simply run away if he ever was attacked (although I don't know if this is a matter of law or simply a recommendation made by the local police station).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard that my former taekwondo instructor here in Korea, a former full-contact champion (long before the creation of the pussy footing olympic taekwondo), was specifically instructed by the police to simply run away if he ever was attacked (although I don&#8217;t know if this is a matter of law or simply a recommendation made by the local police station).</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57575</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57575</guid>
		<description>I have another question for Brendon.

In South Korea, is the, uh, fighting training (for lack of a better phrase) a factor in charges laid and/or damages given?  For example, if a Korean taekwondo instructor broke someone's nose, would he get punished more than if an average Korean guy with no training broke it?  Is there a kind of 'fightesse oblige', where those trained are expected to restrain themselves against others? Just curious.

I wonder if these soldiers jobs would matter - would they be punished more if they are highly trained special forces hardmen, vs. a soldier who repaired electronic weapons systems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have another question for Brendon.</p>
<p>In South Korea, is the, uh, fighting training (for lack of a better phrase) a factor in charges laid and/or damages given?  For example, if a Korean taekwondo instructor broke someone&#8217;s nose, would he get punished more than if an average Korean guy with no training broke it?  Is there a kind of &#8216;fightesse oblige&#8217;, where those trained are expected to restrain themselves against others? Just curious.</p>
<p>I wonder if these soldiers jobs would matter - would they be punished more if they are highly trained special forces hardmen, vs. a soldier who repaired electronic weapons systems.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57520</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57520</guid>
		<description>The guy got beaten pretty badly for just telling them, allegedly, to piss off.

Brendon, could they be charged with attempted murder?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The guy got beaten pretty badly for just telling them, allegedly, to piss off.</p>
<p>Brendon, could they be charged with attempted murder?</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57518</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57518</guid>
		<description>Well, he won't get a million dollars. Korea values injuries according to a percentage of disability multiplied by wages (to account for notional lost income) over the expected working lifespan to retirement age (60 by default). Discounted for net present value, of course.

So let's say loss of vision in one eye is a 20% disability, and assume a W1,500,000 monthly income. The cab driver is 51, which gives him nine more working years.

A 20% disability, therefore, leads to a notional loss of income at W300,000 per month for the next nine years -- W32.4 million in compensation for "lost wages". Discounted to NPV it's probably W20 million.

Plus the soldiers need to make compensation for medical expenses and lost wages during the time of hospitalization. Add a pittance for the Korean valuation of emotional distress and pain &#038; suffering, and this looks like a W30-35 million compensation claim.

With no permanent disability it's only worth a couple million won.

There are no punitive or other exemplary damages available here in Korea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, he won&#8217;t get a million dollars. Korea values injuries according to a percentage of disability multiplied by wages (to account for notional lost income) over the expected working lifespan to retirement age (60 by default). Discounted for net present value, of course.</p>
<p>So let&#8217;s say loss of vision in one eye is a 20% disability, and assume a W1,500,000 monthly income. The cab driver is 51, which gives him nine more working years.</p>
<p>A 20% disability, therefore, leads to a notional loss of income at W300,000 per month for the next nine years &#8212; W32.4 million in compensation for &#8220;lost wages&#8221;. Discounted to NPV it&#8217;s probably W20 million.</p>
<p>Plus the soldiers need to make compensation for medical expenses and lost wages during the time of hospitalization. Add a pittance for the Korean valuation of emotional distress and pain &#038; suffering, and this looks like a W30-35 million compensation claim.</p>
<p>With no permanent disability it&#8217;s only worth a couple million won.</p>
<p>There are no punitive or other exemplary damages available here in Korea.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul H.</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57516</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You guys are right of course, I hope he gets a million dollars from the US taxpayer and retires from taxi driving forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys are right of course, I hope he gets a million dollars from the US taxpayer and retires from taxi driving forever.</p>
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		<title>By: dinkus maximus</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57499</link>
		<dc:creator>dinkus maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>what is it with koreans involved with public transportation and foreigners attacking them?  taxi drivers getting clocked by english teachers, GI's stealing busses and or causig havok on them....etc etc etc.  Why can't someone beat up those guys who sell vegetables at 7 am with the speakers blaring?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what is it with koreans involved with public transportation and foreigners attacking them?  taxi drivers getting clocked by english teachers, GI&#8217;s stealing busses and or causig havok on them&#8230;.etc etc etc.  Why can&#8217;t someone beat up those guys who sell vegetables at 7 am with the speakers blaring?</p>
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		<title>By: sanshinseon</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57498</link>
		<dc:creator>sanshinseon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57498</guid>
		<description>Truly.  I can't imagine any possible legitimate reason they could have had for beating him up like that.  I myself have been "verbally abused" several times by Korean men, usually one with alcohol obviously in them, and i have always responded in the true American patriotic fashion -- say "well, you're a friggin' moron" and just walk away from the situation...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truly.  I can&#8217;t imagine any possible legitimate reason they could have had for beating him up like that.  I myself have been &#8220;verbally abused&#8221; several times by Korean men, usually one with alcohol obviously in them, and i have always responded in the true American patriotic fashion &#8212; say &#8220;well, you&#8217;re a friggin&#8217; moron&#8221; and just walk away from the situation&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: montclaire</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57488</link>
		<dc:creator>montclaire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don't think it's inordinate publicity. I hope those punks see some serious jail time. And if they're soaked by the taxi driver, so what? May teach them a lesson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s inordinate publicity. I hope those punks see some serious jail time. And if they&#8217;re soaked by the taxi driver, so what? May teach them a lesson.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/11/28/no-hard-feelings/#comment-57486</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Maybe I wasn't too clear, no harm done. My sympathies go out to the guy for being attacked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I wasn&#8217;t too clear, no harm done. My sympathies go out to the guy for being attacked.</p>
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