Korea’s online community is working itself into an outrage over the outrageous manner in which a female staffer at the South Korean embassy in Beijing treated Korean War POW Chang Mu-hwan when he called for help after escaping from North Korea in 1998.
Give a listen to the conversation via YTN.
The Foreign Ministry, meanwhile, says the staffer in question, who was not a regular employee, left government service a long time ago. It has also apologized for the incident.
While we’re on the topic, it’s been an interesting ride with the latest series of Internet scandals. First we had Gaeddungnyeo (”Dog Poop Girl”), then we had the Doenjangnyeo (”Deonjang Nyeo”), and now we have Daesagwannyeo (”Embassy Girl”). Notice a pattern? Yep, the target of all these expressions of online indignation are women. Even with “English Spectrum-gate,” the target of outrage quickly shifted from foreign English teachers to Korean women, leading to the rather odd spectacle of indignation sparked by the degradation of Korean women leading to, well, more degradation of Korean women. This may, or may not, indicate more about the nature of some segments of the Korean netizen community and social anxieties within Korea than it does about the individual incidents themselves.
30 Comments
To try and be fair after all my exasperation with Koreans in the past, a hat tip to Koreans here. This is one of the times their anger is righteous.
They should be pissed off. Embassy staff are supposed to be there to help its citizens abroad above all other duties, and, senior citizens calling in a desperate situation should be given help above and beyond normal operational protocols (in a country with Confucian roots like Korea this should go without saying).
I see what you’re saying, Robert, but I think the fact that she’s a women is coincidental. Perhaps the anger is an oblique sign of discontent with the disappointments of the Sunshine policy and ruling government.
This is the way many Koreans who work at the US Embassy or on USFK bases treat their fellow Koreans, as well.
You’re right, Hugh, that the woman in question at the embassy should be criticized. The way she responded was really inexcusable, even if she thought the call was a prank, which she probably did. And perhaps you’re right—it may simply be coincidental that she’s a woman. We’ll have to see how it plays out.
Let me get this straight…they are complaining about a phone conversation that took place in 1998? Are these netizens old enough to remember 1998? North Korea was not the ‘friend’ that it is now, to say the least.
Pay attention to this:
http://english.donga.com/srv/s.....6112258838
I believe that we have become so habitualized by North Korea’s antics and the talk about them collapsing for over 10 years that when they are really collapsing, we aren’t paying attention.
You have to take a good look in the mirror and think about how much habitualization is affecting you. Ask this question and answer honestly, how much are you thinking and behaving like Koreans since you came to the peninsula? Just because you rant against Hanchongryun and jinbo doesn’t mean you don’t think like Koreans. If anything, a strong radical stance just proves the point that you are thinking like Koreans. You guys talk verbadim like Chosun Ilbo editorial, so you guys are pretty Koreanized whether you like it or not. Now you have to ask, how much are you really thinking about the war?
Pay attention to what’s happening. I implore you. When the fecal matter hits the fan, you must not be present. I say this for greedy reasons. Once it hits the fan, Korean people will seek to leave. Your presence means one less seat on the Boeing 747. Those Koreans in Korea stay there because they have no choice. Stop teaching english. It’s not worth gambling your life over. There is only few more months till spring, traditional starving period. We are set to talk to DPRK next month. But what difference does it make? Dr. Lankov makes a good point that Soviet Union had gazillions of hydrogen bombs but that didn’t save communism. Despite everything that Roh does for KJI, he can’t even give him a measly family reunion.
The food is running out, and unlike last time, this time the DPRK people know what exactly will happen to them and why. NK daily reports reduction in food distribution in NK. Only two countries can pump in enough food–china and ROK. I don’t think Roh has enough political capital to do it this time. Which leaves China, who’s been pissed footing the whole bill and seeing KJI go nuclear. It is 2 years to go till the Beijing olympics. If NK defectors jump the embassy walls this time, China will seriously think about western countries boycotting the olympics. If DPRK survives 2 years, the defectors won’t even have to jump any embassy fences, they would just have to rush into a sports stadium with lots of world journalists. I give DPRK 3 years tops. But this spring is trully dire. If we stop looking at the political angles and just look at what’s going in, not a whole lot of goodies are going into DPRK. But lots of information is coming in.
Someone needs to make a post on Dave’s ESL cafe imploring English teachers to leave so now that there’s more room on the 747s for the locals.
And to answer your question about habitualization, it affects you a lot. I certainly don’t think about the prospect of war, even though you rationally know its there.
Korea has its share of bird-brained bureaucrats who want to exercise their little power on average Joe. Power corrupts. And, these bird-brains want desperately to feel they are better than average people.
I guess this sort of thing is worse under Communist rule, one of the reasons why Communism did not work.
It’s all fun and games until someone launches chemical artillery shells at you. You might not think it won’t be so hard for the US government to airlift all the expats. But your assumptions about US civillians in Korea is probably vastly under estimated. The US embassy in Korea will be completely mobbed by Koreans whether they have green cards, work visas, or US passports. Do you really think that the US guards infront of the embassy will resort to picking out the white/black faces from the asian faces and get politically slammed back home?
As you get on KAL, you will have to think, “holy crap. that guy who was standing next to me without any documents–he probably inhaled sarin by now.” Even with documents it will be a pandemonium.
Won’t be so funny then. The idea of “taking” a local’s seat on a plane or boat or whatever won’t be so funny once you see in the papers back home the pictures of dead people. What confuses me is that, really, there really isn’t a lot of fun stuff to do in Korea. So why stay? It can’t be the money. It’s not like you can’t buy a jar of kimchi in the states. The world is a big place, so it’s not like you can’t get adventure by going somewhere else.
Only reason to stay is if you work for the government or you happen to be working south of Taejun. I want to make another point that if you are Korean American, you probably have relatives down further south where you can take refuge till the sh1t settles down. YOU probably don’t. So pulling out the boddari will not be a good option for you. You should do yourself a favor and seriously consider leaving before spring hits.
I would like to make one final point. No matter what the status of Korean American military alliance is, the true leader of the allied forces when push comes to shove (or more like when poor DPRK meat-robots pushing and shoving against allied counter attack) will be none other than happy-go-lucky-no-problems-here Mr. Roh Moo Hyun. Even if you have forgiven him for his anti-american tirades, you cannot forget the fact that he never makes any plans and is completely incompetent. This is the guy who is going to “try” to keep YOU safe. He is IT. He is the big man standing between you and crazy Prince Jongil. His bold plan for national salvation:
–sever the military alliance with United States in order to keep DPRK from falsely assuming a regime change strategy from ROK.
And if DPRK falls apart and attacks anyway? Roh’s contingency plan:
–oh well. The risk of starting a war is greater than the benefit of US military support. It was a good strategy while it lasted. Hey, aren’t war time presidents popular?
This is the kind of imbecile whose hands now you have placed your life. No amount of habitualization should make you feel safe knowing that.
Wonderer wrote:
“It can’t be the money.”
Yes, it is. I make a fortune over here - mainly due to the tax breaks. Amazing how much you really earn when Uncle Sam isn’t in your wallet! Likewise - without the breaks (and other benefits) - the USFK would lose tons of contractors. It sounds like you are presuming that the only CIVILIANS over here are ESL teachers.
In my opinion, there would be no fights nor boats off the penninsula if a war broke out anyway. It’s not like the Norks are known for announcing their attacks in advance (to warn the civilian populace).
You really believe that if war broke out Roh would be in charge of the military? AND that the military (or Roh) has no plans for fighting a Nork assaut? When did you get to Korea? A week ago? The military is often running exercises and drills to prepare for a Nork assaut on the South. The “plans” to DEFEND the South are in place and practiced many times a year by all the armed forces over here - ROK and US. Thats what training is all about.
If a full scale war were to break out in Korea all the ex-pats are not going to just take a taxi to the US Consulate for their customer number and then hop the subway to Inchon. You’ll join the refugee columns galloping south while the shells fall around you. Waiting for the embassy to save your ass will be like waiting for Godot because they will be headed for the exits too.
But let’s be realistic about this. War has been looming in Korea since the armistice, over 50 years ago. After a while you just ‘habitualize’ to the reality of that threat and get on with life. Americans did it during the Cold War with the threat of nuclear weapons hanging over their heads and rather few of them ran off to New Zealand. Koreans do the same thing. KJI may be strange, but he is not insane…………he KNOWS what will happen if he really lets fly so he won’t. When these regimes collapse they implode not explode, almost all the energy is directed internally. KJI’s nightmare is the ‘Romanian Solution’ where things fall apart and his formerly loyal soldiers fight over who gets to be in his firing squad.
And don’t worry about Roh, if the crap hits the fan the ROKA will have his ass on the sidelines pronto. Expats can carp all they want, but down deep you guys LIKE it there, so you stay.
(Getting back to the topic of the post…)
I dunno about that… After all, although the three you’ve mentioned have been women, there have been some notable instances of cyberviolence that have sprouted up targeting men (like the guy who’s girlfriend killed herself — I’m blanking on the name). On the other hand, the few incidents you cited to do seem to be more about individuals flouting social norms (and being ruthlessly hammered down as a result), and such social norms are much more restrictive towards women than men, but absent statistics, I don’t think we can really draw the conclusion that women are categorically more likely to draw the ire of the faceless, drooling masses (the ‘netijenry’) than men.
At least in this case, the netijens haven’t been supplied a name upon which to vent their collective spleen, so perhaps the rabid idiot hordes won’t be able to ruin the life of yet another person.
Lazycontractor wrote:
“You really believe that if war broke out Roh would be in charge of the military? AND that the military (or Roh) has no plans for fighting a Nork assaut?”
Unless the wonsu of ROK army puts a bullet in Roh’s head, he is the duelly elected top public official and executive of South Korea. So. If US spy satellites start to see some massive military movements in North Korea, I would like to think that the decision for war or a proper “surgical” strike would be in the hands of a military officer who would know what to do. But I have a feeling that they can’t just start shooting cruise missiles before having a little talk with Roh first. And no matter what happens, we already know Roh’s response. “war is unthinkable.”
Even if Roh has no military say (I think not but hey, it’s nice to believe it were so) he would still be the leader in charge of taking care of the usual sh1t that accompanies war. I.e. how to feed, cloth, shelter, police, heal refugees? Roh will pull a Katrina times 1000 on us. Well YOU, not “us” if you live there. I’ll be ok since I’m no where near Hurricane Roh. My sister, nephew, aunt, uncle, cousins are toast though…
I have no doubt that the officers in ROK army and US armed forces are quite competent. But the person who is in charge of the “back office” is Roh Moo Hyun. They will have to fight a two sided war between Kim Jong Il and Roh Moo Hyun. Look. If war hits the Korean peninsula, the president of ROK will have to swallow his pride and kiss a$$ wherever he must. If Abe pulled down his pants and told Roh to suck it, he better ask him if he also wants his nuts fondled. But I can’t trust Roh to do what MUST be done. Because in the end, he couldn’t end Geumgang.
Kim Jong Il doesn’t want to die, I concede that point. But at the rate he is losing control, war may not be his decision to make. On the day KJI loses power, I can guarantee you that Roh will grab KJI’s heels and beg him to cease the attack. That will be his new and bold and bright plan for national salvation–to ask someone without power to do something.
I hope to God that Kunsanpsv is right and Roh gets sidelined if war occurrs. But that’s a big gamble.
I know that the Korean military has changed a great deal since the 1970s, but the notion that the senior officers would sit around waiting for a dithering Roh to get his act together while Nork tanks rumbled through Seoul is simply inconceivable. If the balloon really goes up things are going to happen so fast and furious that they will be virtually automatic. If Roh even hesitates for an hour, he’ll wind up locked in his room (or suffer a serious case of ‘lead poisoning’) for the duration of the conflict. As to Roh’s legal status…………how many constitutions has South Korea had since independence? Men rule in Korea, not law.
At least they seem to answer the phone at the South Korean embassy. When I ring the Australian embassy, all I get is a machine.
“For English service, press 4″
” For Korean service press 5″
“If your inquiry is about a yadda yadda yadda, press 7″
So after 5 minutes I press 4, 7, 3, finally…”please leave a message”
That staffer may have left the service long ago, but I have no doubt this type of service continues Embassy staff treat anyone who isn’t a banker like dirt.
Their mission is not service, it’s money.
Virtual Wonderer, it doesn’t matter who the president is, South Korea won’t attack unless North makes the first move, which it won’t for an obvious reason: it cannot win a war against South Korea. Here’s how it would go down… Non-conventional weapons will be necessary for us to win the war. North Korean tanks and airplanes wouldn’t even have a chance to move an inch because they would be promptly taken out by South Korean and American non-conventional weapons, which are constantly targetting them (did you know we even got artillery shells that have a guidance system?). Even if North Korea puts them on the move prior to an attack, which I doubt it could, it won’t do them any good because a) the move will be detected by American and South Korean satellites and AWACs and their non-conventional weapons can be retargetted, and b) the ones who slip by aren’t a match for South Korean and American conventional weapons. The North may try to sent sabotage teams, but they’ll be quickly taken out by South Korean soldiers (remember the subs?). The only way North Korea could win would be if China gets involved from the beginning, which it won’t. The Chinese have been cheated into joining a war once already by the North Koreans. It won’t happen twice. If a second Korean war occurs, they’ll let the North Korean forces be destroyed before sending in their own troups, if they send them at all.
“Non-conventional weapons will be necessary for us to win the war.”
Using our non-conventional weapons is all that will be necessary for us to win the war…sorry.
VW, you paint a good doomsday scenario. We’re all going to die eventually, if you want to obssess on that, knock yourself out.
The notion that N.K. will more likely implode than explode is getting more plausible all the time. Tim Peters (who helps N. Koreans with food aid) said yesterday that the North is going to see a 1990s-level famine this winter. Now, this could possibly cause the norks to lash out against the South, more likely it will bring them begging as it has in the past, since they can’t just roll their tanks into Seoul to hit the Family Mart for rameon. Their society is getting weaker, not stronger.
micheal…they will lash out as usual: a few gunshots will be exchanged at the DMZ, North Korea will threaten to flood Seoul in a sea of fire. North Korean ships will come into South Korean waters and turn back (with or without the help of a few warning shots).
Kunsanpcv and Vitural Wonderer are missing some key points. Firstly, a lot Americans working for corporations have their own security plans for getting their people out. If fighting did break out without use of a Nork nuke then conventional exchanges would not likely exceed three days. If you live in Seoul the key would be to survive the shelling and then secure portable water for private use for about four to five days. Locate Yongsan or the Embassy. Canucks are screwed, their embassy really is not prepared to airlift their guys.
Ah, Korea. A world where women are second class citizens.
Sumo294 is correct that many private corporations have heir own evacuation plans and they may work fine with enough warning. But the best plans often go out the window under heavy artillery fire and these private plans may not work very well after the shooting starts. What is the guesstimate, 10,000 Nork tubes within range of Seoul? I also have a guess that the US embassy and Yongsan are sited in by a good percentage of those tubes, so standing in line with your 8 gallons of potable water and luggage by the embassy or South Post gates may get a little dicey even for folks in the private sector.
Also, as concerns downtrodden Korean women, any of you guys married to a Korean woman? Can she take care of herself (and you) if she needs to? I rest my case.
Think it a coincidence that there is no male equivalent of doenjangnyeo?
Who’s that gay guy who got “fired from show business” a few years back for revealing that (quelle horreur!) he was a homosexual? Hong Seok-Cheon? That’s a male equivalent right there. Of course, he was a fag so under the official public morality he deserved it as much as the girls.
I meant that there was no word that was the equivalent. (If there were a male doenjangnyeo, I think Lee Sang-gi would win that award).
Hong is doing fairly well these days, btw. He was in that movie PUZZLE. And at all the big parties at the Pusan Film Festival. Kind of amazing to see how fast Korea is changing in some ways.
As a sidenote, Hong seems to be a pretty decent fellow too.
Of course Hong Seok-Cheon is a decent guy — I was being facetious. Quelle horreur! was a signal of derision at the folks who had to get rid of him. Fags are people too, just better dressed and groomed, and more dancey, than the rest of us. And that’s certainly no reason to get fired from show business, of all things. Besides, who on Earth could have been surprised that guy was gay? To me the whole thing was absurd. But in Confucian Korea, it seems just as hard to be a gay guy as it is to be a chick. Being neither, though, I could be wrong.
Kunsanpsv, someguyinkorea, michael,
I hope you guys are right and I am being hyper sensitive. Please dont’ get me wrong, I don’t doubt that allied forces will win. I will even go so far as to say that once the DPRK citizens learn the truth, they will do to US Marines what the Iraqis never did–throw rose petals and give them big hugs. If fact the current DPRK citizens will probably become some of the most hardcore pro-US people in the world, drastically changing South Korea politics yet again. Even without US support ROK will win. Not knowing anything about military matters, I have no idea how long it will take, but I assume what everyone is saying about a quick and short war will be correct as well. But in that short duration of time, we are going to be seeing some gruesome hardcore concentrated hell. chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons along with a pretty sizable number of really brainwashed troops who really will do with guns what pyong yang gymnasts do at mass games.
Eveyrone says Kim Jong Il is not dumb enough to start a war. But how can I ignore the very long and comprehensive list of military provocations—really f*&kng serious ones at that. It wasn’t so long ago that DPRK patrol boats crossed NLL and started a scuffle. Not too long after that, they essentially surprise attacked ROK Navy. We know and you know (and probably KJI too knows) ROK Navy is vastly superior to DPRK Navy, but despite that fact, they sunk and killed ROK sailors. Did Jong Il order it? Or did a bunch of pissed of hardcore DPRK soldiers take revenge in their own hands? Either way you know the sh1t can go down at any moment. And what if ROK sailors or soldiers at DMZ really got pissed off and returned fire instead of being just targets? How fast can these things escalate? Or how slow will we respond? We really are on such an edge here.
I religiously read NK daily. You can say I naively believe every word I see on that website. They are reporting rise in food prices in North KOrea as Michael reports from Peters at helping hands. We know they are also losing information control. Formula for implosion unfortunately is the same formula for explosion and we can’t really guess which way it’s gonna go. In fact, we have absolutely no control over this process, since information WILL go into DPRK and people over there WILL sooner or later do to KJI what he deserves. But it’s impossible to fathom if KJI can do a banzai charge before he croaks. it’s 50-50.
heads up, yipee, no more worries about gulags/starvation/bombs/etc. If tail, crap. Lots and lots of carnage. That’s just the simple fact.
Oh yeah. I forgot to frisk Roh. But I will have to put that off till I have more time.
happy turkey day everyone.
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[...] Alright, moving on now, Han would like to put to rest the concerns of one worried commentator here at the Marmot’s Hole concerning rumors of an impending North Korean collapse: Park said, “Kim Jung-il is a very competent politician and has already completely wiped out conflict within the military and therefore eliminated the possibility of collapse. The North Korean military believes it will not crumble in the face of any attack, including from China.” [...]
[...] What else can be said about something like this? It’s easy enough to blame the girl on the phone, but in light of past events like this, the more salient questions are (1) whether she was just following orders. [...]