Fresh from critical debates about employment rights of drug addicts and teachers having their student write journals, The National Human Rights Commission of Korea has decided that Korean flight attendants are not old enough (Chosun):
Asiana and Korean Air’s policy of hiring women crewmembers that are no older than 25 years has been condemned as unreasonable by the National Human Rights Commission of Korea, who has recommended that the companies end the practice forthwith.
(Nice use of the thesaurus, BTW)
Personally, I have mixed opinions on this. On the one hand, many of my female students would like to become flight attendants and the chance of another year or two of preparation would certainly be nice.
On the other hand, as someone who has taken the long flight across the pacific with Korean and American carriers, I can tell you that the service I have received on the Korean carriers was much better. The Korean flight attendants seem to have a more “ubiquitous service mind” (to use the Konglish term).
I suspect that at least part of that has to do with age.
Most of the Korean flight attendants on international flights are in their late 20s or early 30s. Flying to places around the world is still new and exciting to them. They seem to see themselves as sky waitresses and are almost universally kind to their guests. And let’s not forget the aesthetic quality they aid to the cabin.
On the other hand, most of your American flight attendants on international flights seem to be in there late 30s, 40s or even 50s. They have paid their dues (including 8 years tossing peanuts on commuter flights between Cedar Rapids and Cheyenne) and are not going to take any crap from some stupid man in the 23rd row who wants a third can of Sprite. They are professionals, damn it! So shut up and sit down.
I don’t know about you, but I would definitely prefer to spend 12 hours on a plane with a crew of 28-year-old sky waitresses than a crew of 46-year-old professionals.
I can only think of one exception to that rule: If there is an emergency, I would take some comfort in knowing that the salty dogs in the cabin crew know just what to do during the four minutes it takes for us to plunge to our fiery deaths.
55 Comments
Thesaurus? Sounds like appropriate modern legaleese.
Not sure that “women” can be hired as “crewmembers” tho if the criteria is different from men. I though they were stewardesses!
The Korean airlines have got it right! ANA over in the land of the rising sun goes one step further. Their stews have an expiration date. United airlines, North Worst, you name them; they have surly old union sky waitresses. NW ordered some new 787’s from Boeing and requested that the aisles be wider so the stews could get their walkers through. Now Asiana or KAL girls…….Many a night I pondered over my Kenwood chard while flying back to Seattle, how I would love to join the mile high tonight.
What about the human rights of North Koreans, who are South Korean citizens according the South’s constitution?
Huh? Stewardess is too young, evil Bu$hie Iraq war, no student write diary, mmmm, I can’t hear you! I can’t hear you…..
“If there is an emergency, I would take some comfort in knowing that the salty dogs in the cabin crew know just what to do during the four minutes it takes for us to plunge to our fiery deaths. ”
I am even doubtful if those old bag still remember the emergency response training, given how (un)’pro’ they are at the rest of their daily work.
so it is fiery death anyway, i would rather die with the 28-yr old.
“National Human Rights Commission of Korea”??
Because this “Human Rights Commission” wastes time upon matters that are not germane to the universal idea of human rights, the whole issue of human rights becomes irrelevant and sadly misunderstood in Korea. One would think these people should address issues that are truly more important and need attention.
Additionally, this “commission” has no legal right to make demands of employers who legally hire people, who are of legal age, that choose employment with them — regardless of their concerns. If I were the airlines, I might consider a lawsuit against these fools for defamation.
Surely this post would benefit from some gratuitous pictures of the above mentioned Asiana & Korean Air ladies?
Howard Hughes said it the best when he was running TWA, “If you are 28 and no man wants you, neither does TWA.” I personally have never seen a good looking stewardess on United Airlines . . . in fact the gay guys handing out peanuts had more sex appeal. Yikes, before Jodi goes crazy . . . yes, looks do matter and so does size. When I rode KAL the no stewardess ever hit my elbow but the wide rear ended United crew hit my elbow at least five times. Something to be said about thin and beautiful women handing you peanuts, in fact, makes the peanuts actually taste better.
Yeah Mr. Jackson howza bout some young hot stewie pictures? And some racing girls, for, you know, comparison or something?
It’s funny how the Korean HR commission spends more time on this matter than the gulags in North Korea. Shows were their priorities are. Personally, I like the air-waitresses on the Korean carriers. The bitter old grannies on American carriers seem to add time to the flight. Its not so much their looks as it is their sour attitude.
Sorry to interrupt this circle jerk, but the last time I checked, gay men, straight women and children all flew.
Personally I don’t give a damn how hot the flight attendents are or that they giggle at your dumb jokes. I care that they are able to operate emergency doors and are able to subdue passengers who’s actions might disrupt the safety of a flight.
Last time I flew between Canberra and Melbourne a guy had decided he didn’t want to put his seat upright for landing. After not doing as he was told politely to do so by the younger FAs, the senior one came down and did it for him and gave him the look that she would cut off his testicals and serve them up as lunch for the next flight if he did it again.
So if I happen to be on a flight with someone with a box cutter or a shoe bomb I know which F.A I’d take.
Right on Stef. If I had my druthers, all flight attendants would be burly former special-forces operatives. Maybe the ones discharged for being gay or something.
Andy–Those trans-Pacific veterans of the American carriers have a name well-known among business travelers: Battleaxes.
Korean Air and Asiana–I implore you, DO NOT allow ajummas to work your aisles.
It used to be KAL and Asiana dropped the stews when they got married. Sadly, that is no longer the case, but at least they haven’t stooped to U.S. levels.
And yes, for a “human rights commission” to be involved in this issue when there are plenty of real human rights abuses in the neighborhood is either funny or sad–I’m not sure which.
“able to subdue passengers who’s actions might disrupt the safety of a flight” Sorry stef, it should be the air marshal’s responsibility to deal with totally out of contol passengers, not the crew. Flight attendants aren’t even given standardized training in security (in the U.S.) and a 50-year-old attendant isn’t automatically better than one half her/his age in subduing, say, a violent drunk.
Now let us get back to jerking
BC–Compromise: How about one badass and 12 hotties?
Actually per capita Korean Flight Attendants have to subdue more drunks per year than the yanks. Oh, and by the way for the ignorant people who would rather have large Marge slop their tray… The Korean airlines have teasers to subdue the drunks. Just ask the 6’4 Russian who tried to misbehave on KAL….Go back to jerking? Who’s the wanker now?
Once the current crop of jihadis outgrows this phase of struggle (there aren’t many 40- and 50-year-old criminals OR soldiers) we can get back to “normal”, but for now I’ll take big faggy male flight attendants over either bull-moose bluehairs or a passel of useless hotties. The buffest homos we can find. Perhaps if Joss Whedon did the hiring for the airlines (Eliza Dushku with a wooden stake) it would be okay to go with girls.
Were you expecting me to say something???
Mr. Carr……You are starting to scare me.
“The Korean airlines have teasers to subdue the drunks” It’s true, there was a flight attendant on Asiana who teased me for almost the entire flight, but she couldn’t subdue me
michael, now that’s funny.
as for flight attendants who are able to subdue passengers who are a danger to the flight, i hope me and other passengers (and flight marshals) will be enough to handle those bad passengers. if i had to rely on flight attendants, i think those attendants have more skills that are better suited for meat packing or driving rigs. just my humble opinion.
First smoking, now the hot flight attendants too!!?? For God’s sake, why not take away the restrooms and in-flight movies too? *PUKE*
Now Korea can be just like America with 55 year-old, fat-ass, ugly, way beyond what even plastic surgery could repair, mean flight attendants. *PUKE* Let’s see what this change does to sales…
–Remort
further, there are many things i wish korea would copy or follow the us in terms of values and customs and so on. flight attendants with ajummas is not one of them.
I second Stef’s sentiments. MAS (Malaysian Air Systems) by far has the best looking male crew members.
I’ve flown with a Korean carrier just once…they seated all the foreigners together, all 5 of us, and basically ignored us.
I actually enjoy striking up conversations with the flight attendants, young, old, male or female whenever I go to the tail to get milk for my son or whatever (they appreciate the fact that I never page them). Some of them have some pretty interesting stories to tell. One told me her grandpa had something like 36 varieties of peaches on his orchard in Texas, “A different variety is ready for harvesting every week”. Another one was a Quebecer who told me he prefered flying to Japan because he loves walking downtown in Tokyo (just stays in his hotel room when he’s in Seoul). He asked me about Koreans and luxury items because, he said, he’s never seen anyone buy so many duty free items. Normally, it would take 10 to 15 minutes, but on flights going to Korea, takes them 2 to 3 hours…every time. I also met a flight attendant that was really curious about life in Korea because two of his friends were teaching here. He served me a couple of extra cans of beer because, “Japanese beer is pretty weak”.
As I think of it, Brendon’s idea seems a bit more sensible.
Korean flight attendants are super-honeys.
No wonder the Human Rights Commission is one of the most despised and loathed organization in Korea…
Just so you guys know, “flight attendant” is no longer politically correct; it’s “member of cabin crew.” I’ve given up and gone back to “stewardess.” Retro is in.
The hot flight attendants requirement is completly ridiculous. Unless they are handing out handjobs with the hooch, whats the point of traveling with blueballs for the duration a 12 hour flight? (I’m sure our resident blueballs is a fine travelling companion)
I’d prefer someone who could simply do their jobs and not pester me during the flight and I’m happy. If I were a flight attendant, I’d be surly too. Too many damn drunks oggling my ass and demanding being pampered on the equivalent of a 12 hour buss ride. They aren’t your damn mothers you know.
It’s probably high time that they did this. This country is way too over the top on the cosmetic factor, and not nearly enough developed in the human rights factor. Ugly chicks deserve their day in the sun, too.
And ugly guys, too.
re: stef/etc.
I think two points have been missed.
1) it is not really about hot or young. It is about whether there is still motivation or incentive to deliver good service. younger staff tends to be more diligent from our collective experiences. In fact, less hot (and less attractive, but still relative young) Asian FA delivers better service than hot younf FAs, simple because they knew they needed to work harder to get the same opportunity for promotion/etc.
(re:sonagi…regardless of male or female. in fact, in my recent flight on Northworst transpacific, a young male FA was very good, and the other 5 big and ‘more experienced’ female FA were totally unresponsible to any request from passengers. they say ok to you if you want something and never return, multiple times in a single flight)
2) it is a totally unproven myth that the old bags know better about opening the emergency door/etc. My hypothesis would be the exact opposite.
Sorry for the spell check snafu michael, you know what I meant.
It was cheap and weak
Oh God, do I ever remember the battle-axes running NorthWorst Disoriented’s flight 7 from SEATAC to Kimpo. Back when they were making a mint off of GI’s. And baby flights. It was worse than taking the damned bus with a bunch of bitter old nuns.
Maybe the Korean carriers still do this: some of the stews onboard are actually not stews. Back in the 80’s, each flight had a couple of ‘atrocity qualified’ beady-eyed killer women, members of ROKA’s elite 707 unit, meant to serve as air marshallettes. There were handguns stashed in various parts of the galley, bathrooms, etc.
Flashback to the spring of 1988. As the Olympics grew near, ROKSWC learned to its dismay that it did not have enough of these junior amazons to cover security commitments at women’s locker rooms, act as personal security for female VIP’s, AND fly on Korean airlines…
Keeping in mind that ROKSF’s motto is “Do the impossible”, a hundred-plus group of young men Special Forces operators, those with lighter skin and frames, sparse facial hair…went to the Olympics in drag!
A year or so later I was lucky to meet the ROKA major who dreamed the idea up. But I also knew a few of the operators who got tagged for this duty, and they were really unhappy. We American operators thought it was audacious and cool as hell, the first really innovative thing we’d seen our counterparts do…
Just remember this when you notice that one of your Asiana stewardess seems to have an unusually prominent Adam’s apple and awfully thick wrists….
The comments section here is filled with venting about Korean racism and sexism, but I’ve always thought age discrimination is the most crippling form of discrimination in Korean society. Once you reach a certain age you’re disposed of.
It’s also sexism here: the thinking is that society is/should be male centered enough to require that all public space is a place where they need to be kept entertained (by keeping pretty young ladies in view all the time).
Yes of course I think youth is easier on the eyes than babushkas with attitude. But there could be somewhere in-between, and if you’ve flown on inter-European flights you’ll see the difference. Older crew, but that don’t block the aisles.
All this talk about older v. younger FAs suddenly reminded me of Uli Derickson (see generally http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uli_Derickson). Eye candy is great, but I’d rather have someone who can do crisis management.
Oddly, last time I took KAL (four years ago), one of the FAs was a blond Russian. And really, really, hot.
oranckay’s post seems the most level-headed one out of all the comments made here, including the original post. I think this is great they’re moving away from the age discrimination. Do people know how much unnecessary age discrimination happens here (besides what gets engendered by the Korean language hierarchy system). (How many qualified women aren’t accepted because she isn’t young enough or pretty enough). Add that to being a woman, you get a double whammy when people are applying to jobs etc.
^ Meant that : ‘ the age discrimination policy.’
I heard it is one of tough job for female with frequent jet-lag and so on….Still the demand from young female applicants won’t decrease with incentives they dream to get like travelling, high salary, and of course lots more chances of duty free shopping. Old/experienced FA would need to compete with high flow-in of these young ones and #of experienced one would be limited as the Airliner knows that they many need to pay triple more salary and benefit packages with them.
hey back in september on my KAL flights i was treated like a king….my cute daughters helped me in that regards…..the attendants kept coming by giving us toys, sticker books, ice cream, juices, whatever they could find!!! it was amazing
now once i got to the US and hopped on delta for my domestic transfers
i got shit from one of the stewardesses for throwing away a crappy diaper when she came by to throw away the trash!!!!
not to mention her ass was wider than a MATIZ!!!!
i said i would be writing a letter to delta on her behalf!!!!
she didnt like that very much either
in other related news
this is unreal!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....g_protests
Railway, I was just teasing you (no tasers involved).
I always like your comments. Come here and get a hug!
OK, through vigorous debate I think we have come to a consensus on the ideal cabin crew:
-8 young sky waitresses with “service minds” to serve the guests
-1 former special-ops gay stewart to handle male terrorists
-1 “beady-eyed killer air marshallette” to handle female terrorists
-1 battleaxe to wrestle with drunks
-1 one skinny old Bavarian lady in a tight skirt to make Oranckay happy (We all have our own tastes.)
Who ever said that Marmot’s Hole comments section was just a bunch of hot air?
Jing–I hope you never fill out a customer survey for Singapore Airlines.
Amen! (Obviously) Strangely enough, Madame Lirelou prefers flying Asian airlines precisely because the stews are young and attentive. I tried to explain the concept of “sexist” to her, but she wasn’t buying it. As to what these girls do when they hit the obviusly low glass ceiling, we did meet a former Air Vietnam stew once, who had served on that airlines Saigon to Paris run in the 50’s. She kept a photo of herself in her stew’s uniform next to the aircraft displayed in her home. Along with a photo of her entire family dressed in traditonal ao dais. After Air Vietnam, she had entered the Republic of Vietnam’s foreign service and was serving in Washington D.C. when Saigon fell to the northern barbarian hordes. What amazed me was that a so obviously traditional family had sent their daughters off to university in the early 50’s. And allowed her to become a stew! Shades of Charlie Soong.
Irrawaddy. We could’ve had our own female special operators, but the staff faggots sent Kathleen Wilder to the course instead of a young female Black enlisted soldier named Brenda Carpenter. Carpenter was a Vassar graduate, and spoke Arabic so well the Egyptians thought she was Sudanese. Her upper body strength was adequate for the SF course of the period (late 70’s) and she could run and negotiate an obstacle course with the best. There is a place in special ops for female operators, as the 11th Choc (unfortunately) showed in the Rainbow Warrior debacle. Hopefully we have them by now. French airborne physical standards for females is nearly as high as it is for the males, and both tests exceed U.S. Army standards. But, you know our favorite military. Staff faggots (more correctrly eunichs, except we allow them to breed) set the standard for the lowest.
p.s. My use of the term “staff faggots” is not intended as a slur to anyone’s sexual preference, and I apologize to anyone who is not an overwieght, under-physically fit, brown-nosing, preening, self-imporant staff prick prancing about in badges and tabs trying to impress the generals.
let’s face the facts. for the same job and same pay younger people have more incentive to work hard and deliver good service because
1) they still have dreams, on promotion and next step in career/etc
2) touring new cities are perks to them (since they have not seen them all)
3) they have more energy
the old FA are indifferent.
therefore, from the airline’s perspective, it is always more economic (same cost for higher value product) to hire younger FA. many asia airlines do have programs for the FA to switch to ground service (which is less demanding in terms of physical strength).
and this is not unique to asia airlines. i have see great service from young FA in AF and UA intra-europe — from young FA.
this is not above discrimination. this is just business.
—
again, to those who confuse age with ‘experience in handling crash-landing’, let me remind you that crash-landing or other kinds of emergencies are so rare that 30 years in service does not gain you more “experience” — but instead wear you our so much that you will forget the training you received 30 years ago (in different airplane models)
Thanks Michael, Fair play to you.
Cheers!
This is a bit off topic, but how many of you have been on flights where South Korean middle-aged men have been caught smoking in the washroom?
Last year flying to Frankfurt on one of the newer Lufthansa planes they had to make an annoucement almost every hour, in Korean only, that smoking was not allowed on the plane.
I think the fact the toilets were grouped together downstairs below the passenger deck casued some koreans to forget they were on a plane.
I would love to know from Flight crews who they find are the most awkward passangers in general? I’m sure the Koreans must be somwhere near the top of the list.
The koreans hands down. Have you ever been a stall after a Korean gave themselves a shower? I asked a stew once and she said people like to wash up, nothing they can do about it. At least they are clean!
Ah yes, im waiting for the headline “KAL flight capsizes at 30,000 Feet…Investigators believe enthusiastic showering to be the cause.”
And of course dont forget the mad rush for the toilets a minute before take off or landing resulting in a Benny Hill type chase between an Ajumma and the flight attendants up and down the aisles.
Good one Thirsty,
All jokes aside, I went into the can to brush my teeth before landing and there was water splashed from hell to breakfast. You would never see anything like that in Europe because they don’t bathe.
You must fly out of Incheon a lot? I doubt it.
If I’m going to be trapped in an aluminium tube for 12 hours straight I much prefer the KAL and Asiana gals to the UA or NWA grannies. My wife is Korean and she feels EXACTLY the same way. And she teaches Women’s Studies here at the university!
Railway, my joke was in agreement with you!
I fly a lot in Korea from Gimpo, and Asia and Europe from Incheon.
Despite how much i love living in Korea, being trapped in an “aluminium tube” with the Koreans leaves me feeling stressed and wanting to slap them.
Thirsty,
I agree. I don’t know why expect more from the Koreans when they travel? It is typical American manners that lead me down this primrose path, I guess.
Um…Am I weird if I find women in their thirties and forties more attractive than some twentyish airhead?
Sign me
Anxious in Ansan
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[...] Wednesday, November 22, 2006“Korean flight attendants are super-honeys.” 1 oh yes they are—but does this affect my choice of airlines when going home and back? it’s in there somewhere among the long list of reasons i’d rather (money available) spend $1200 clams to get to NYC and back than $800 on some piss-ant, still traumatized by 9-11 American carrier. something about being trapped in a pressurized tin can for fourteen hours while defying the will of god (i’d don’t have wings, do you?) and nagging some ignorant “flight attendant” for another baby cup of regular water (i hear they are confiscating the bottled kind you bring yourself these days), about having to use English to ask for necessities (always a mind-bender), about actually understanding the bitchy scoff or subtle rebuff of the i’m-just-here-pulling-in-the-dough-until-retirement types that turns me off. so, having not really thought about it before, but reading the Marmot’s post and laughing through the comments got me thinking, and why yes, i do prefer my “flight attendants” to be called “stewardesses”, be young and personable (haven’t met an “old flight attendant” who was since i was like twelve and flying unchaperoned with my younger brother), be thin or very debonair in her above the knee skirt, and a super-honey. no guilt about that. but … if the Korean government decides to force its airlines to chuck the ‘age-line’ and other physical requirements (because it violates human rights—seriously read the article), will i fly cheaper airlines? probably not. but in twenty years or so when these girls are older and bitter like their American counterparts, hopefully it won’t matter anymore because i will be able to afford my own hovercar and i’ll fly myself back to see my family. there’s something to be said though, for the “super-honey” gliding down the aisle in her Gianfranco Ferre uniform and milky scarf bow tied around her neck that makes me feel like what i’m doing is the way things should be—flying should be glamorous, for everyone. instead it’s often a sick desire to get somewhere faster and that need is cruelly pinched between airline greed (i do not want ramyeon as my “meal” you frack!) and passenger apathy. it should be a luxurious experience regardless of what seat you’re in. you are defying gravity, old world beliefs and preindustrial religious edicts to engage in a world of new science on a frontier which was broken into within the last hundred years. it should be special. it should be enjoyable. it should be something to look forward to. so do Korean super-honeys help make flying what it should be: yes. i’ve a bit of a love conundrum, for which i sought advice this evening. my instinct is to do nothing and forget about it, and my friend concurs. in the course of our hour-long conversation, she coined a few memorable (sick/sad but always true) items: [...]
[...] Andy Jackson in Marmot’s hole worries that the national human rights commission’s criticism against the Asiana and Korean Air’s policy of hiring women crewmembers that are no older than 25 years will affect the service. Oiwan Lam [...]