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	<title>Comments on: Korean Scientists Cure Cancer? Or Hwang Redux?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2</generator>
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		<title>By: China Law Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53674</link>
		<dc:creator>China Law Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 05:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53674</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;China's Proposed Labor Law Causing Sucking Sounds...&lt;/strong&gt;

The other day I posted on China's proposed new labor laws, in a post entitled, China's Proposed Labor Law:Going After Capitalists Like China, 1967. Got a great comment from Seoul super-lawyer, Brendan Carr, that is so good and so helpful,...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>China&#8217;s Proposed Labor Law Causing Sucking Sounds&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>The other day I posted on China&#8217;s proposed new labor laws, in a post entitled, China&#8217;s Proposed Labor Law:Going After Capitalists Like China, 1967. Got a great comment from Seoul super-lawyer, Brendan Carr, that is so good and so helpful,&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53305</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 02:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53305</guid>
		<description>Good grief. This is science, guys. It's not affected by these petty, stupid Korea-bashing arguments, so Korea bashers might as well shut it and those busily defending Dr. Yun, don't bother... the quality of her team's work will determine what is to come. 

Thank goodness scientific method is more effective than blogging. If it's real, and works, then the findings will be repeated and we'll be safe from cancer. If it's crap, it's crap, and science will discard it... but without the ignominy that Hwang earned for himself, unless of course results have been faked. Most likely, it'll add up to a couple of drops in the bucket supporting someone else, which will support someone else... because labs all over the world are doing this kind of research right now, and it's so complicated that this is the way science is done now... tiny steps forward in understanding, with the odd team lucking out with something big. The Korean press may not have caught up with this fact, the Korean newspaper-buying public may still want its Einstein, but science is much less like that now. Still, it's stupid to dismiss all Korean scientists because Hwang got away with faking for so long. 

(It's less stupid to criticize the University that employed such a faker, or the public that took him up as a hero without the vaguest understanding of his claims, or how ridiculously he behaved. It's totally fine to criticize Hwang. But to tar all Korean scientists by his brush is just moronic. If we did that, there'd be no country left whose scientists we could respect and trust.)

As for the claims being made: listen to Cat. Cat knows more about this than anyone else who's posted. (And probably much more than me.) 

Sewing: Yes, you recall correctly about something weird with telomeres and cancer. Cancer cells are "immortal" which means they don't have the same kind of reproductive restrictions as normal somatic cells have, which is limited by telomeres. This has actually led to speculation that the only other common kinds of cells in the body that we know about which are technically "immortal" in this way -- stem cells -- may be the root from which cancers spring. At least, that's what I was reading this summer, when I was reading up on the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayflick_limit" rel="nofollow"&gt;Hayflick limit&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good grief. This is science, guys. It&#8217;s not affected by these petty, stupid Korea-bashing arguments, so Korea bashers might as well shut it and those busily defending Dr. Yun, don&#8217;t bother&#8230; the quality of her team&#8217;s work will determine what is to come. </p>
<p>Thank goodness scientific method is more effective than blogging. If it&#8217;s real, and works, then the findings will be repeated and we&#8217;ll be safe from cancer. If it&#8217;s crap, it&#8217;s crap, and science will discard it&#8230; but without the ignominy that Hwang earned for himself, unless of course results have been faked. Most likely, it&#8217;ll add up to a couple of drops in the bucket supporting someone else, which will support someone else&#8230; because labs all over the world are doing this kind of research right now, and it&#8217;s so complicated that this is the way science is done now&#8230; tiny steps forward in understanding, with the odd team lucking out with something big. The Korean press may not have caught up with this fact, the Korean newspaper-buying public may still want its Einstein, but science is much less like that now. Still, it&#8217;s stupid to dismiss all Korean scientists because Hwang got away with faking for so long. </p>
<p>(It&#8217;s less stupid to criticize the University that employed such a faker, or the public that took him up as a hero without the vaguest understanding of his claims, or how ridiculously he behaved. It&#8217;s totally fine to criticize Hwang. But to tar all Korean scientists by his brush is just moronic. If we did that, there&#8217;d be no country left whose scientists we could respect and trust.)</p>
<p>As for the claims being made: listen to Cat. Cat knows more about this than anyone else who&#8217;s posted. (And probably much more than me.) </p>
<p>Sewing: Yes, you recall correctly about something weird with telomeres and cancer. Cancer cells are &#8220;immortal&#8221; which means they don&#8217;t have the same kind of reproductive restrictions as normal somatic cells have, which is limited by telomeres. This has actually led to speculation that the only other common kinds of cells in the body that we know about which are technically &#8220;immortal&#8221; in this way &#8212; stem cells &#8212; may be the root from which cancers spring. At least, that&#8217;s what I was reading this summer, when I was reading up on the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayflick_limit" rel="nofollow">Hayflick limit</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53262</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53262</guid>
		<description>"윤채옥 교수는 86년 서강대를 졸업한 뒤 미국 일리노이 공대에서 박사학위를 받은 뒤 하버드대학 포스닥 및 연구원을 거쳐 2000년부터 연세대 교수
Yun graduated from Suhgang university and got her phD from Univ. of Illinoise.  She also did post doctorial study at Havard."  

She seems to be a real McCoy.  She is a "certified" scientist from the USA, not like Hwang asshole.  And, she talks like a real scientist, using moderate tones on her discovery and stressing further study.  I wish Korean government send more money to her direction. 

Using a genetically altered virus to cure cancer seems to be a good way to go.  This holds more promise than "cloning" lies.  Korea should spend more resources in this endeavor while cutting off funding for cloning research.  This "genetically altered virus cure" may bring more money to Korea than Samsung.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;윤채옥 교수는 86년 서강대를 졸업한 뒤 미국 일리노이 공대에서 박사학위를 받은 뒤 하버드대학 포스닥 및 연구원을 거쳐 2000년부터 연세대 교수<br />
Yun graduated from Suhgang university and got her phD from Univ. of Illinoise.  She also did post doctorial study at Havard.&#8221;  </p>
<p>She seems to be a real McCoy.  She is a &#8220;certified&#8221; scientist from the USA, not like Hwang asshole.  And, she talks like a real scientist, using moderate tones on her discovery and stressing further study.  I wish Korean government send more money to her direction. </p>
<p>Using a genetically altered virus to cure cancer seems to be a good way to go.  This holds more promise than &#8220;cloning&#8221; lies.  Korea should spend more resources in this endeavor while cutting off funding for cloning research.  This &#8220;genetically altered virus cure&#8221; may bring more money to Korea than Samsung.</p>
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		<title>By: Arghaeri</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53260</link>
		<dc:creator>Arghaeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53260</guid>
		<description>Whoah Sewing, that was indeed more than I wanted to know about viruses...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoah Sewing, that was indeed more than I wanted to know about viruses&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: yoosy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53197</link>
		<dc:creator>yoosy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 05:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53197</guid>
		<description>http://www.viewsnnews.com/article/view.jsp?code=NCG&#38;sch_key=&#38;sch_word=&#38;seq=7576

- Yesterday's interview with Dr. Yun ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.viewsnnews.com/article/view.jsp?code=NCG&amp;sch_key=&amp;sch_word=&amp;seq=7576" rel="nofollow">http://www.viewsnnews.com/arti.....p;seq=7576</a></p>
<p>- Yesterday&#8217;s interview with Dr. Yun &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53117</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53117</guid>
		<description>The paper they published on the topic must first go through peer review, further experimentation, human trials, etc.   It's promissing research, that's all.  Don't start smoking just yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The paper they published on the topic must first go through peer review, further experimentation, human trials, etc.   It&#8217;s promissing research, that&#8217;s all.  Don&#8217;t start smoking just yet.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53083</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53083</guid>
		<description>Pyotr: I too stand corrected.  &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_of_virus" rel="nofollow"&gt;More than you could ever possibly want to know about the plural of "virus"&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pyotr: I too stand corrected.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_of_virus" rel="nofollow">More than you could ever possibly want to know about the plural of &#8220;virus&#8221;</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: dogbertt</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53067</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbertt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53067</guid>
		<description>Sorry for being snarky, baduk.  You are right, it was not carried in a leading daily.  

But it was reported by YTN and SBS, which I would consider major.  

http://news.naver.com/news/read.php?mode=LSD&#38;office_id=052&#38;article_id=0000131236&#38;section_id=105&#38;menu_id=105
http://news.naver.com/news/read.php?mode=LSD&#38;office_id=055&#38;article_id=0000082199&#38;section_id=103&#38;menu_id=103</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for being snarky, baduk.  You are right, it was not carried in a leading daily.  </p>
<p>But it was reported by YTN and SBS, which I would consider major.  </p>
<p><a href="http://news.naver.com/news/read.php?mode=LSD&amp;office_id=052&amp;article_id=0000131236&amp;section_id=105&amp;menu_id=105" rel="nofollow">http://news.naver.com/news/rea.....enu_id=105</a><br />
<a href="http://news.naver.com/news/read.php?mode=LSD&amp;office_id=055&amp;article_id=0000082199&amp;section_id=103&amp;menu_id=103" rel="nofollow">http://news.naver.com/news/rea.....enu_id=103</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pyotr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53062</link>
		<dc:creator>Pyotr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-53062</guid>
		<description>R. Elgin, it's "viruses", not "virii".

"Virii" is not a functional word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R. Elgin, it&#8217;s &#8220;viruses&#8221;, not &#8220;virii&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Virii&#8221; is not a functional word.</p>
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		<title>By: hardyandtiny</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-52996</link>
		<dc:creator>hardyandtiny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 03:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/20/korean-scientists-cure-cancer-or-hwang-redux/#comment-52996</guid>
		<description>That's terrible what we do to mice.  We should concentrate on eliminating all the harmful crap available for consumption and stop torturing innocent creatures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s terrible what we do to mice.  We should concentrate on eliminating all the harmful crap available for consumption and stop torturing innocent creatures.</p>
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