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	<title>Comments on: Fill &#8216;er up?</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: djp200</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52775</link>
		<dc:creator>djp200</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52775</guid>
		<description>The furor over the 'x-list' died down, didn't it?  If I recall, the group of entertainers dropped the suit against CJ Entertainment.  That being said, never got a chance to see it and would've enjoyed seeing what they considered "scandalous"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The furor over the &#8216;x-list&#8217; died down, didn&#8217;t it?  If I recall, the group of entertainers dropped the suit against CJ Entertainment.  That being said, never got a chance to see it and would&#8217;ve enjoyed seeing what they considered &#8220;scandalous&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52709</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 01:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Or maybe I should have said...The discussion has officially gone way over the head of this 'goy'.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or maybe I should have said&#8230;The discussion has officially gone way over the head of this &#8216;goy&#8217;.  <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52708</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 01:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The discussion has officially gone way over the head of this gentile.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The discussion has officially gone way over the head of this gentile.  <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52707</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 01:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52707</guid>
		<description>Word-final "mem" in writing, not syllable-final, although phonetically it does function as the final sound of the preceding syllable, like the Japanese final "n" kana/sound, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Word-final &#8220;mem&#8221; in writing, not syllable-final, although phonetically it does function as the final sound of the preceding syllable, like the Japanese final &#8220;n&#8221; kana/sound, I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52706</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 01:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Someguy: I meant just the written forms of the two languages, irrespective of their sound systems.  Re your point, Korancais (?) can sound just as bad as Konglish if poorly done!

Nathan: I've noticed that, too about the "mi&#365;m" looking like a final "mem."  Whether there's any historical influence, I have no idea.  As far as I know, there was no mediaeval Isaac of Hanyang on Sejong's team of scholars!  And yes, it would be better to say that Masoretic Hebrew was an elaboration of non-pointed script.  Good point (er, ...) on the modern stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someguy: I meant just the written forms of the two languages, irrespective of their sound systems.  Re your point, Korancais (?) can sound just as bad as Konglish if poorly done!</p>
<p>Nathan: I&#8217;ve noticed that, too about the &#8220;mi&#365;m&#8221; looking like a final &#8220;mem.&#8221;  Whether there&#8217;s any historical influence, I have no idea.  As far as I know, there was no mediaeval Isaac of Hanyang on Sejong&#8217;s team of scholars!  And yes, it would be better to say that Masoretic Hebrew was an elaboration of non-pointed script.  Good point (er, &#8230;) on the modern stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: NathanB</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52705</link>
		<dc:creator>NathanB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I guess there is one further stage, too: Modern Hebrew, which does not use the Masoretic vowel pointings, except in pedagogical works for children.  I do not believe that we have any fully-pointed, non-biblical MSS from earlier times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess there is one further stage, too: Modern Hebrew, which does not use the Masoretic vowel pointings, except in pedagogical works for children.  I do not believe that we have any fully-pointed, non-biblical MSS from earlier times.</p>
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		<title>By: NathanB</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52704</link>
		<dc:creator>NathanB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Of course, Sewing, we maybe shouldn't say &lt;i&gt;simplified&lt;/i&gt;, since the older system was not a simplification of the newer one. ;-)  There were, of course, three major stages: the initial stage, written without vowels, the next stage, with its limited use of "matres lectionis" to indicate certain vowels, and the final stage of "fully-pointed" Masoretic Hebrew, complete with all the vowels and accent marks.

Incidentally, many Hebrew syllables also end in consonants.  The so-called "silent shewa" is used underneath the consonant that ends a syllable that precedes the next syllable, always started by a consonant (including Aleph).

I have often thought that Korean and Sumerian (which is not a Semitic language) seem distantly related, although I can't really say why, and I've also often wondered what sources Sejong's scholars used to invent their alphabet--might a Jewish scholar or work have been used as a source?  The lateness of the invention of Hangul, the equivalence between aleph and the iung, and the similar way of forming letters (including the odd identically shaped letter, such as "m") have made me curious.  Perhaps you could help me with that last point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, Sewing, we maybe shouldn&#8217;t say <i>simplified</i>, since the older system was not a simplification of the newer one. <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  There were, of course, three major stages: the initial stage, written without vowels, the next stage, with its limited use of &#8220;matres lectionis&#8221; to indicate certain vowels, and the final stage of &#8220;fully-pointed&#8221; Masoretic Hebrew, complete with all the vowels and accent marks.</p>
<p>Incidentally, many Hebrew syllables also end in consonants.  The so-called &#8220;silent shewa&#8221; is used underneath the consonant that ends a syllable that precedes the next syllable, always started by a consonant (including Aleph).</p>
<p>I have often thought that Korean and Sumerian (which is not a Semitic language) seem distantly related, although I can&#8217;t really say why, and I&#8217;ve also often wondered what sources Sejong&#8217;s scholars used to invent their alphabet&#8211;might a Jewish scholar or work have been used as a source?  The lateness of the invention of Hangul, the equivalence between aleph and the iung, and the similar way of forming letters (including the odd identically shaped letter, such as &#8220;m&#8221;) have made me curious.  Perhaps you could help me with that last point.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52702</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>sewing, vowels in Korean are nearly identical to French--or at least as they are pronounced by French Canadians.  Korea is the country in Asia who has the most learners of French as a second language....but, I can count the number of Koreans on one hand that I have met who are fluent in French...heck, I can count on one hand the number of Koreans I have met who can more than 
종주르,  코망할레부, and 지우테므 in my ten years here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sewing, vowels in Korean are nearly identical to French&#8211;or at least as they are pronounced by French Canadians.  Korea is the country in Asia who has the most learners of French as a second language&#8230;.but, I can count the number of Koreans on one hand that I have met who are fluent in French&#8230;heck, I can count on one hand the number of Koreans I have met who can more than<br />
종주르,  코망할레부, and 지우테므 in my ten years here.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52639</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52639</guid>
		<description>Re Nathan's comment:

What's interesting is that syllable formation is very similar in both Han'g&#365;l and Hebrew.  In both, block syllables are typically formed from a consonant and a vowel (with, of course, optionally a final consonant in Han'g&#365;l).  In most cases in Hebrew, the vowel mark is placed under the consonant, in a manner similar to Han'g&#365;l.  As a bonus, both writing systems have a special, silent placeholder consonant (aleph in Hebrew and i&#365;ng in Han'g&#365;l) that together with the accompanying vowel markings represent a vowel sound.  (This applies for marked-up, Masoretic Hebrew.  A simplified (and older) form of Hebrew writing omits the vowel markings.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Nathan&#8217;s comment:</p>
<p>What&#8217;s interesting is that syllable formation is very similar in both Han&#8217;g&#365;l and Hebrew.  In both, block syllables are typically formed from a consonant and a vowel (with, of course, optionally a final consonant in Han&#8217;g&#365;l).  In most cases in Hebrew, the vowel mark is placed under the consonant, in a manner similar to Han&#8217;g&#365;l.  As a bonus, both writing systems have a special, silent placeholder consonant (aleph in Hebrew and i&#365;ng in Han&#8217;g&#365;l) that together with the accompanying vowel markings represent a vowel sound.  (This applies for marked-up, Masoretic Hebrew.  A simplified (and older) form of Hebrew writing omits the vowel markings.)</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/17/fill-er-up/#comment-52638</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Baduk, you're back!  Man, you've missed so much....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baduk, you&#8217;re back!  Man, you&#8217;ve missed so much&#8230;.</p>
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