Comments on: At least McCain waited seven paragraphs to bash Clinton http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/ Korea... in Blog Format Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:29:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: slim http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51662 slim Thu, 12 Oct 2006 18:48:21 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51662 The whole world needs to seize on this opportunity, patiently but steadfastly, to get rid of the DPRK and bring about the unification of Korea. The Kim Family Regime is clearly a blight on mankind, arguably the worst government to exist in human history and a failure even if measured by Socialist standards (ie food & shelter are the only human rights that matter). Anything that doesn't remove the Pyongyang leadership guarantees we will face this problem again in a few years. China and even the obtuse Uri Party/Roh's South Korea know this. The West's job will be to sell North Korea's neighbors on a program that deals with their concerns about refugees and chaos and, later, China's worries about a unified Korea being pro-US and allowing American troops on the Yalu/Tumen borders. North Korea should now be blanketed with Korean language leaflets that tell them the truth about how far their country has fallen and what the civilized world actually thinks of Kim Jong-il, who started the Korean War, who decided to cut them off from the world, how much international aid was given to them since 1995, who/what stands in the way of them getting more aid, who pockets the salaries of Kaesong laborers and Siberian slave loggers, etc. Let the wrath of the masses do what Clinton/Kim DJ/Roh appeasement and Bush's hawk engagement could not. The whole world needs to seize on this opportunity, patiently but steadfastly, to get rid of the DPRK and bring about the unification of Korea. The Kim Family Regime is clearly a blight on mankind, arguably the worst government to exist in human history and a failure even if measured by Socialist standards (ie food & shelter are the only human rights that matter). Anything that doesn’t remove the Pyongyang leadership guarantees we will face this problem again in a few years. China and even the obtuse Uri Party/Roh’s South Korea know this. The West’s job will be to sell North Korea’s neighbors on a program that deals with their concerns about refugees and chaos and, later, China’s worries about a unified Korea being pro-US and allowing American troops on the Yalu/Tumen borders.

North Korea should now be blanketed with Korean language leaflets that tell them the truth about how far their country has fallen and what the civilized world actually thinks of Kim Jong-il, who started the Korean War, who decided to cut them off from the world, how much international aid was given to them since 1995, who/what stands in the way of them getting more aid, who pockets the salaries of Kaesong laborers and Siberian slave loggers, etc. Let the wrath of the masses do what Clinton/Kim DJ/Roh appeasement and Bush’s hawk engagement could not.

]]> By: pawikirogi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51651 pawikirogi Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:30:47 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51651 'the 300,000 is just leftist propoganda.' to me, this shows the bankruptcy of so many human beings. is this a numbers game? you mean, if only 90,000 were killed instead of 300,000, that would make it ok? this country lost 3000 of it's citizens on 9/11 and what does president bush do? he starts a war with a people who had nothing to do with september 11th. this man and his supporters have brought about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. that fact is not interesting to them, though. they're more interested in arguing about numbers with the budweiser logic that less makes better. they'll never contemplate the morality of bush's war because that would be suicide for their humanity. and can you imigine? these are the people who claimed to be civilized. november 3 almost here. do i hear the word 'impeach'? ‘the 300,000 is just leftist propoganda.’

to me, this shows the bankruptcy of so many human beings. is this a numbers game? you mean, if only 90,000 were killed instead of 300,000, that would make it ok? this country lost 3000 of it’s citizens on 9/11 and what does president bush do? he starts a war with a people who had nothing to do with september 11th. this man and his supporters have brought about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. that fact is not interesting to them, though. they’re more interested in arguing about numbers with the budweiser logic that less makes better. they’ll never contemplate the morality of bush’s war because that would be suicide for their humanity. and can you imigine? these are the people who claimed to be civilized.

november 3 almost here. do i hear the word ‘impeach’?

]]> By: TheBDF http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51616 TheBDF Thu, 12 Oct 2006 12:00:48 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51616 I've noticed that most of the Bush Administration's supporters don't live in the United States. Things are different here. I’ve noticed that most of the Bush Administration’s supporters don’t live in the United States. Things are different here.

]]> By: Wedge http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51573 Wedge Thu, 12 Oct 2006 03:14:17 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51573 Yankees Fan: Too bad about Detroit and shouldn't you be working? ;-) I agree with your analysis. Talking with thugs like Little Elvis and Iranian nutjobs gets you nowhere. And fundamentally nothing has changed here in Seoul--the military response option has been pretty much off the table since whenever it was they started pointing 152mm artillery tubes this way. Nukes don't change that fact. Yankees Fan: Too bad about Detroit and shouldn’t you be working? ;-) I agree with your analysis. Talking with thugs like Little Elvis and Iranian nutjobs gets you nowhere. And fundamentally nothing has changed here in Seoul–the military response option has been pretty much off the table since whenever it was they started pointing 152mm artillery tubes this way. Nukes don’t change that fact.

]]> By: yankeesfan_77 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51565 yankeesfan_77 Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:00:14 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51565 Although I think Bush has screwed up a lot of things, ok - A LOT of things, as a long time north Korea observer, I can tell you his policy has been right on. While it may seem like we are ignoring the problem, what is the alternative? Talk to them and get empty promises in return? While many believed that we should have talked directly with north Korea, it would not have done any good. We talked in 1994, gave them everything they wanted, and they reciprocated by starting a covert plutionium program. We had a quasi agreement (through 6 party talks) last fall, only for north Korea to turn around and renege on any deals made to reduce tensions and address the problem. While it may appear dangerous to let this problem fester, especially in terms of regional stability and long term proliferation issues, to allow north Korea to sabre rattle and test its nukes, the situation is still manageable. We assumed they had them anyway, if the test turns out to be real, then it only confirms a potential capability to produce and eventually employ them. Over-reacting right now would not help anyone. I loved all the articles and people that questioned right away whethter Japan would go nuclear. Lets give this a chance to play out and develop policies based on rationale thought and not emotion. Remember, there really is no north Korean State Government, its a mafia organization that is trying to extort a little more blood money. The norks continue to try and exploit the percieved differences between the ROK-US Alliance Alliance to acheive their end-state of US withdrawal from the peninsula. This has been sucessful, especially with the ROKs insistence on maintaining the "sunstupid policy". This may be coming to an end as the ROKs have lost face, especially since it was probably ROK cement that was used in making the test chamber and the norks at the site were probably eating Nong Shim ramyon as they watched for the big boom. By talking to them under veiled threats of force, we will accomplish nothing. Although I think Bush has screwed up a lot of things, ok - A LOT of things, as a long time north Korea observer, I can tell you his policy has been right on. While it may seem like we are ignoring the problem, what is the alternative? Talk to them and get empty promises in return?

While many believed that we should have talked directly with north Korea, it would not have done any good. We talked in 1994, gave them everything they wanted, and they reciprocated by starting a covert plutionium program. We had a quasi agreement (through 6 party talks) last fall, only for north Korea to turn around and renege on any deals made to reduce tensions and address the problem.

While it may appear dangerous to let this problem fester, especially in terms of regional stability and long term proliferation issues, to allow north Korea to sabre rattle and test its nukes, the situation is still manageable. We assumed they had them anyway, if the test turns out to be real, then it only confirms a potential capability to produce and eventually employ them. Over-reacting right now would not help anyone. I loved all the articles and people that questioned right away whethter Japan would go nuclear. Lets give this a chance to play out and develop policies based on rationale thought and not emotion.

Remember, there really is no north Korean State Government, its a mafia organization that is trying to extort a little more blood money. The norks continue to try and exploit the percieved differences between the ROK-US Alliance Alliance to acheive their end-state of US withdrawal from the peninsula. This has been sucessful, especially with the ROKs insistence on maintaining the “sunstupid policy”. This may be coming to an end as the ROKs have lost face, especially since it was probably ROK cement that was used in making the test chamber and the norks at the site were probably eating Nong Shim ramyon as they watched for the big boom.
By talking to them under veiled threats of force, we will accomplish nothing.

]]> By: Robert Koehler http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51564 Robert Koehler Thu, 12 Oct 2006 01:47:01 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51564 It's Robert. And the "heck" was not an intentional pun, although now that you point it out, there's definitely potential there for creative use of the word. It’s Robert. And the “heck” was not an intentional pun, although now that you point it out, there’s definitely potential there for creative use of the word.

]]> By: Graham http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51562 Graham Thu, 12 Oct 2006 01:29:06 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51562 Robert (or is it Richard?)-- Liked how you put the word "heck" into your last sentence. Intentional? We could certainly cool things down with a few (lame) puns... Robert (or is it Richard?)–

Liked how you put the word “heck” into your last sentence. Intentional? We could certainly cool things down with a few (lame) puns…

]]> By: lirelou http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51545 lirelou Thu, 12 Oct 2006 00:24:54 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51545 In response to: "Is there anybody out who hasn’t been operating under the assumption that North Korea had nukes? No, I didn’t think so." Actually, I'm one. I presume that they have been working on one for years, and that they had more than one program, the less promising of which they sacrificed for the Clinton deal. I do not put it past the Norks to fabricate a nuclear explosion (remember the "mysterious mushroom cloud" of 18 months or so ago?), particularly in the wake of so spectacular a failure as their missile test. This is NOT to say that the situation is not dangerous, and that the U.S. should not take the fat boy's assertion at face value. Hell, let's accept their statement for the time being, squeeze them until their pips pop, and then if things die down, trot out any scientific evidence that confirms that this event was non-nuclear, or at least casts serious doubt on it, and start nailing them for a gigantic fraud, perhaps undermining further the fat boy's creditibility. In response to: “Is there anybody out who hasn’t been operating under the assumption that North Korea had nukes? No, I didn’t think so.” Actually, I’m one. I presume that they have been working on one for years, and that they had more than one program, the less promising of which they sacrificed for the Clinton deal. I do not put it past the Norks to fabricate a nuclear explosion (remember the “mysterious mushroom cloud” of 18 months or so ago?), particularly in the wake of so spectacular a failure as their missile test. This is NOT to say that the situation is not dangerous, and that the U.S. should not take the fat boy’s assertion at face value. Hell, let’s accept their statement for the time being, squeeze them until their pips pop, and then if things die down, trot out any scientific evidence that confirms that this event was non-nuclear, or at least casts serious doubt on it, and start nailing them for a gigantic fraud, perhaps undermining further the fat boy’s creditibility.

]]> By: virtual wonderer http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51525 virtual wonderer Wed, 11 Oct 2006 21:34:04 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51525 Sorry Marm, but this is the real deal. Fecal matter has hit the fan. You say that DPRK can't sell them. But if they did sell them, you assume US won't push back that "redline". Do you really believe that? I don't think we are going to nuke Tehran when Iran has nukes either. George W. Bush, no less, wasn't willing to send a cruise missile at DPRK plutonium stockpile, he like all those "pu55ies" that conservatives point out, decided to follow his predecessor's decision to cross fingers and wait and hope. Only difference between Bush and Clinton is that Clinton was willing to pay appeasement money and hope that that would slow down DPRK's nuke progress---and Bush didn't see the point in it. DPRK has been "eating" on those nukes and missiles for years. We've been flinging mud at each other deciding whether appeasement was really slowing down nuclear progress or destroying relationships with China or ROK. In short DPRK is free to do whatever crap it wants to unless China has a say. But really. Detonation occurred Sunday night, my time. It's like Wednesday here, and I'm still reading news like China doesn't want to do this or that. What that tells me is that countries like China/SK didn't have a contingency plan for this. They NEVER thought about what they would do if the crap hit the fan. That sort of makes me nervous, because for all I know Roh can go full speed left and become a bbalchisan. If we are "lucky" and the dust settles, then in a few years time a non-Bush US president WILL reverse course and start having bilateral talks with DPRK. The thing is, we are changing presidents all the time and they have an "eternal" president. Then we are going to recycle this argument all over again, and some new poster will say something and will think that he is saying something truly original and insightful. BUT like i said, i'm not so optimistic. Like all those people flippin' out, I too think DPRK is getting really desperate to force everyone's hand like this. A desperate DPRK is not a cause for joy, because they won't go down pretty. Professor Lankov always seem to hint that there will never be a "happy" ending to this. When I used to think about a "bad ending" to this couple years ago, it was Chemical Biological shells exploding on top of, well you, since you live there. What, 50-50 chance for survival? Now it's nukes. Cockroaches have better chance than you. People who live there don't worry, well, I never worried about stuff like this when I lived there either. That's acculturation. But things really, God honest, has been this bad since DPRK soldiers hacked US servicemen at Panmunjom. Minute hand is really fuc*n' close to twelve. I hope to God that I am an ignorant fool and is completely over reacting. Sorry Marm, but this is the real deal. Fecal matter has hit the fan. You say that DPRK can’t sell them. But if they did sell them, you assume US won’t push back that “redline”. Do you really believe that? I don’t think we are going to nuke Tehran when Iran has nukes either. George W. Bush, no less, wasn’t willing to send a cruise missile at DPRK plutonium stockpile, he like all those “pu55ies” that conservatives point out, decided to follow his predecessor’s decision to cross fingers and wait and hope. Only difference between Bush and Clinton is that Clinton was willing to pay appeasement money and hope that that would slow down DPRK’s nuke progress—and Bush didn’t see the point in it. DPRK has been “eating” on those nukes and missiles for years. We’ve been flinging mud at each other deciding whether appeasement was really slowing down nuclear progress or destroying relationships with China or ROK. In short DPRK is free to do whatever crap it wants to unless China has a say. But really. Detonation occurred Sunday night, my time. It’s like Wednesday here, and I’m still reading news like China doesn’t want to do this or that. What that tells me is that countries like China/SK didn’t have a contingency plan for this. They NEVER thought about what they would do if the crap hit the fan. That sort of makes me nervous, because for all I know Roh can go full speed left and become a bbalchisan.

If we are “lucky” and the dust settles, then in a few years time a non-Bush US president WILL reverse course and start having bilateral talks with DPRK. The thing is, we are changing presidents all the time and they have an “eternal” president. Then we are going to recycle this argument all over again, and some new poster will say something and will think that he is saying something truly original and insightful.

BUT like i said, i’m not so optimistic. Like all those people flippin’ out, I too think DPRK is getting really desperate to force everyone’s hand like this. A desperate DPRK is not a cause for joy, because they won’t go down pretty. Professor Lankov always seem to hint that there will never be a “happy” ending to this. When I used to think about a “bad ending” to this couple years ago, it was Chemical Biological shells exploding on top of, well you, since you live there. What, 50-50 chance for survival? Now it’s nukes. Cockroaches have better chance than you. People who live there don’t worry, well, I never worried about stuff like this when I lived there either. That’s acculturation. But things really, God honest, has been this bad since DPRK soldiers hacked US servicemen at Panmunjom.

Minute hand is really fuc*n’ close to twelve. I hope to God that I am an ignorant fool and is completely over reacting.

]]> By: GI Korea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51519 GI Korea Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:13:17 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/12/at-least-mccain-waited-seven-paragraphs-to-bash-clinton/#comment-51519 @ pawikirogi, Since you brought up the Iraq civilians dead headlines feel free to head over to Milblogs (http://www.mudvillegazette.com/milblogs/) where our Milblog crew has already debunked the report you mention. It is nothing but more leftist propaganda before the November mid-term election. @ pawikirogi,

Since you brought up the Iraq civilians dead headlines feel free to head over to Milblogs (http://www.mudvillegazette.com/milblogs/) where our Milblog crew has already debunked the report you mention. It is nothing but more leftist propaganda before the November mid-term election.

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