The Dong-A Ilbo reports that immigration authorities have handed down deportation orders for actors David Anselmo and Clinton Morgan, both of whom appeared in Bong Joon-ho’s blockbuster “The Host,” for violating Article 20 of Korea’s immigration law, namely, that you must get government permission before engaging in activities other than the ones specified in your sojourn status.
Morgan, an Australian, was on a English teaching visa and employed at a university in Suwon, while Anselmo, a Canadian, was on a 90-day tourist visa.
Good news for the both, however. If they pay a 1 million won fine and leave Korea, they can return anytime they like. If they fail to pay the fine, however, they would be forcefully deported and barred from reentering the Land of the Morning Calm for 3-5 years. Which would suck.
Mr. Morgan, however, was still pretty pissed. He told the Dong-A (warning: retranslating from Korean here), “Restricting activities besides those marked on your visa is a narrow-minded policy… I don’t want to come back to Korea.”
My advice to both—next time you engage in activities outside of your visa status in Korea, make sure you’re married to the American ambassador.
Actually, I feel bad for the guys. I can see how they might have to pay a fine, but a deportation order? For appearing in, what, the highest grossing film in Korean cinema history? You’d figure just for their contributions to Korea’s film industry the authorities would go easy. Guess not. Hope they get some good legal help.
91 Comments
Anselmo appears to be more in the wrong here — the guy has appeared in four Korean films. Has he been on a tourist visa each time?
Isn’t the employer fined for hiring people without the proper work documents?
Gbevers - You are joking, right?
Robert, why do you feel sorry for them, because they took a chance and got caught, after all they got off quite lightly, only a 1000$ fine?
It’s maybe not so clear with Anselmo, but if Morgan was on an English teaching then he knew enough to know he couldn’t work elsewhere. He broke the law, and seemingly quite intentionally.
I like the “reeples” under the article, with everyone taking the stance that the country is better off without these foreign scumbags. The angry assumption seems to be that they must have parlayed their film stardom into nightly bacchanales with Korean women. (Dare I wonder if this same assumption is what moved the immigration authorities into action?) That’s the thanks they get for serving the noble cause of anti-American propaganda in the movie!
I am though a little surprised the authorities bothered, particularly, as you say given their services to the Korean film industry.
Possibly, the authorities acted on a complaint from someone one or other of the guys pissed off. Did, Morgan piss off one of his korean professors?
My fund of pity for these two is extremely limited: they chose to participate in a Korean foreigner-bashing propaganda exercise, and now they learn the hard way that - surprise! - Koreans are insanely xenophobic. Poetic justice I say.
Back in the eighties, when Chun Doo Hwan was having the film industry crank out cautionary tales about dalliances with Itaewon’s foreign devils, there were always some white ninnies willing to play villains in the films. Two Europeans that I know of fell victim to the xenophobia they had helped whip up: immigration deported them. I agree with Hans: poetic justice.
But my guess is the Immigration turned a blind eye to Morgan and Anselmo for a couple years, then decided to boot them out before they turn into bona fide “talents”.
Be sure to check out Anselmo’s head shot at IMDb (Robert’s hyperlink above) - really ’80’s eurofaggy sweater there. Despite that whole Tears for Fears/Kajagoogoo look he has going on, he still might enjoy one of those ‘I’m not American’ T-shirts. Hope he had enough of a chance to pick one up before they kicked him out - it’ll be such a big hit down at the unemployment office back home.
“White homeless people who have nowhere to go but Korea” is how one female reeple-writer puts it. Sigh. This is what the Canadians have done to the white man’s reputation.
He’s probably pissed because when I tried out for one of the white guy roles the payment was something like $1000-2000. The part I got was a $500 one. In retrospect that would not have been enough to justify the headache of the authorities tracking down my (SOFA) visa status. Guess I lucked out because my tour ended the month before filming started.
My favorite part of the sneering disdain many Koreans have for those foreigners who, for whatever reasons, decide to come to Korea instead of some other place, is the self-hatred behind the idea that such people have “nowhere to go but Korea”, or that only “low-quality” expatriates would choose this place.
Anyway, for the two actors, or for Mrs. Vershbow, all of the trouble could have been avoided simply by asking for permission to engage in some activity outside the scope of the original visa. In all cases, provided the foreigner has permission from his/her “owner” (think of yourselves as indentured servants or chattel slaves, and you’ll get the idea of the immigration department’s attitude toward foreigners resident in Korea, and whose rights they ought to be protecting), the immigration department is usually pretty generous about granting additional permission for work.
Free legal advice for the day: If you’re here in Korea on a visa, of whatever kind, ask yourself whether the economic activity you intend is permitted by the visa you currently hold (the answer is usually “no“), then go about getting the additional permission — in the form of an endorsement to your current visa — necessary to do it without getting deported.
Brendon, I wonder the same thing as gbevers: in this situation (persons working, in violation of the law), is the employer not also held accountable? Or, are the employees considered some sort of temporary day-labor, from whom legal documentation is not required?
Hans Castorp, Anselmo was actually in 3 Korean movies place foreigners as the villains.
“My favorite part of the sneering disdain many Koreans have for those foreigners who, for whatever reasons, decide to come to Korea instead of some other place, is the self-hatred behind the idea that such people have “nowhere to go but Korea”, or that only “low-quality” expatriates would choose this place.”
Glad to see I’m not the only one who sees irony in that, Brendan.
Brendon: surely Anselmo couldn’t have simply called Immigration and worked it out? Not on a tourist visa?
gbnhj: Foreigner will claim the employer assured him everything was legal.
Korean employer will claim foreigner assured him his papers were in order.
Now take a wild guess which side the Korean authorities choose to believe.
There is no contradiction in the Korean attitude towards “low-quality” expats. Koreans are nationalists, not patriots. They believe their country is a mess - of course, primarily because foreigners made it that way (as allegorized in The Host!).
And foreigners who would want to come and stay in such a screwed up country have to be low-quality foreigners intent on dragging it even further down.
This attitude does not prevent Koreans from boasting about selected accomplishments of the great Korean race (as distinguished from the country itself).
montclaire, doesn’t the employer have to provide the necessary letters of support for a visa, so wouldn’t it be a bit difficult to claim the foreigner told him the papers were in order, and if they were in order wouldn’t the stamp in the passport state the appropriate visa category. Perhaps Brendon can clarify.
Albeit, the korean official attitude towards visa does continue to amuse. You still can’t find information on the governmental websites about all the visa catagories available. You still have to discover by osmosis some entitlements available to foreigners. For example with an F5 you’re even entitled to vote in local elections, but if you went to the immigration website you wouldn’t even know it existed.
Well, montclaire’s guessing aside, my question still stands. My employer annually makes photocopies of all non-Korean employees’ new or extended visas, and I presume they are being kept on record for inspection purposes. Again, are businesses not required to confirm the legality of their employees?
The employer in this case can very easily claim ignorance of laws regarding the foreigners that he virtually never hires. Not that such a defense would hold up anywhere else in the world.
monclaire, I’m not deny that foreign intervention has not had any affect, good or bad, on Korean history…But, Korean society and history was already in shambles long before the Korean War. Starting in 1811, peasants began revolting intermittently against the inherent inequalities of the Korean caste system, which classified 30% of the Korean population as ‘chongmin’ (essentially, people born into slavery). These revolts continued up until the Japanese invasion. In spite of the demise of the Korean monarchy, remnants of the Korean caste system continues to affect the society in which we live well into the 21st century.
Arghaeri, you can vote on an F-5 after x amount of years. I read in the papers that during the last local elections, only a couple of foreigners were elligible to vote. The visa hadn’t been around long enough for nearly all F-5 visa holders to fulfill the lenght of residency requirements to have the right to vote.
I agree with you, Someguy.
I was just trying to counter a common foreign misperception that Koreans are extremely patriotic, when in fact they’re nationalists with a very bleak view of their own history and, for that matter,their present too. Hence the widespread notion that no foreigner would live here unless he were a loser.
«La patriotisme, c’est lorsque l’amour du peuple auquel vous appartenez passe en premier, le nationalisme, c’est lorsque la haine des autres peuples l’emporte sur tout le reste»
Charles De Gaulle
Basically, “patriotism is when you love your people (your nation) so much that it’s your first concern, whereas nationalism is when hate of others (other nations) wins above all else.”
No one else has said it, so I will. Maybe they were deported for being such atrocious actors. I know, one musn’t upstage the stars, but these guys can’t even find the stage.
It’s nice to think that the Ministry of Justice is acting to spare us future ‘performances’ from thespians such as these.
Can’t they find not one professional white actor who don’t actually sound like they’re playing their highschool plays’ parts? I can’t believe that they can’t even find ONE.
Can they find Koreans who don’t sound like they’re doing a high school play? Maybe movie directors can. But not the TV dramas.
They received an “exit order,” not a deportation order. I got the same thing years back, when my hagwon was raided and I got busted for working without a visa (was heading to Osaka that week). I know exactly what they are going through, and THEY GOT OFF LIGHT!
I might also add that I recognize the Canadian (unless he has a twin-looking guy who is also an actor) and he’s been in Korea for at least three years. I met him at the Yuppgi Club singles group back then. Do you suppose he ever had a visa?
I wonder if……. a Korean prostitute….were cast in the greatest porno in America of all-time……and was illegally working on a tourist visa……
would she be given citizenship or deported??
Oh what a silly little country Korea is at times……….
can anybody show me that the action of the korean geovernment was motivated by racism? nope. just more claptrap from trashy expats crying that the korean government is enforcing it’s laws. can you imagine? the expat whines that korea is a lawless society and then turns around and whines when korea tries to enforce it’s laws. yet another example of hypocrisy. tsk, tsk, tsk.
’shouldn’t the company that employed them be fined?’
shouldn’t us corporations be fined for hiring illegals? don’t see that happening very often. nice try though.
‘koreans think we’re low class because they hate themselves.’
no, they think you’re low class because you are. you think koreans can’t see that when they look at you? tell me, lawyer, where does your hatred for the people you marry come from? a little self hatred, perhaps?
‘koreans hate their country and their lack of achievment.’ montclaire
said through the prism of someone who obviously hates koreans. let’s see, korea one of the wealthiest nations in less than 50 years. yep, sounds like a lack of achievment to me.
why do you stay in korea, montclaire? perhaps the following quote from the ny times expalins it:
‘mr karr lived in an area of bangkok that was filled with drugs, drug dealers, pimps, prostitutes, and expats.’
‘koreans are bad tv actors!’ montclaire
really? not too long ago, i had three (2 white and 1 filipino) friends watch 2 korean drama series, each one said they were surprised at the high level of acting skills. of course, they don’t despise koreans like you do, montclaire. can you speak korean, montclaire? i’ll bet you don’t. yet another expert on korea, man!
gerry, i love your long drawn out posts on dokto! great stuff. why not publsih your findings at the atimes.com in the ’speaking freely’ section. put your vitriol where your mouth is, gerry.
ps ou can find gerry’s investigative series on dokto at the hate site called ‘occidentalism.org’.
Note how when a news breaks about a foreigner in Korea getting into trouble, the usual suspects love to play the N-card (nationalism card). Speculation and scrutiny is cast on the suspicious motives of the Korean government or the motives of the press. Basically anything but the deed of the foreigner itself. It’s actually quite amusing for me to experience First World white folks fulfilling the part of the perpetually victimized minority. Maybe its some sort of reverse-karma.
“And foreigners who would want to come and stay in such a screwed up country have to be low-quality foreigners intent on dragging it even further down”
I’m not trying to be an ass, but isn’t there some truth to this notion?
After all, if you’re highly educated and marketable, why would you choose to live in lowly Korea, when you can live in areas with less social and economic problems like Japan, China, Vietnam, Thailand, Philippines, or Malaysia? Isn’t it reasonable to believe that you choose to live in a fucked up country because you have no choice because of your skills are not marketable in other Asian countries with higher quality living standards?
She won’t be granted a citizenship nor deported.
She will be detained in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba as she is terrorizing zillion dollar American porn industry and took away the career path of American “Porn” Idol stars or thousands thousands of Girl Gone Wild wannabe…..She will be investigated and assaulted under Patriot Act…..
Nay..Too much for a porn star..
Well..
She will be just another detainee in Albuquerque jail, New Mexico, “BIG” U.S of A with other Korean prostitutes.
Answered your curiosity, RAPOKI?
Pawigirogi -
I’ll bet my Korean is better than your English. My orthography and reading comprehension are definitely better! Where did I write that Koreans’ self-hatred is justified? I find your countrymen’s lack of patriotism baffling - as do most foreigners here.
We foreigners live in Korea because unlike you emigration-mad Koreans, we DON’T believe the place is beyond hope, and we DON’T believe that America is the only place worth living in.
Dear sir, won’t you kindly instruct us of the instances in which our countries have deported foreigners on specialist visas for the “deed” of appearing in movie roles? Would you please tell us in which of our countries the law says a foreigner on a visa is tied to a single employer like an indentured servant, and suffered permission to stay only as long as said employer feels like it, regardless of other job opportunities? You’re welcome to start with my own dear blighty, if you please …
Get over the self-righteous b.s.: Korean visa laws are backward and heavily weighted against foreigners, the authorities in most countries have better things to do than deport foreign-language teachers for playing bit parts in movies, and what makes the difference in both cases is the same ugly, chip-on-the-shoulder xenophobia exemplified by your very own posts, which seem to take it for granted that foreigners have no right to say anything about Korea that doesn’t amount to singing its praises. If more Koreans (and certain Gyopos who forget they aren’t actually Korean citizens) were capable of taking foreign criticism with good grace you wouldn’t run into half as much of the “bashing” which sets your teeth on edge. Koreans are way, way too nationalistic, in a way that makes a thoroughly negative impression on foreigners accustomed to a higher standard of conduct in such matters, and all the “now whitey knows how it feels” ranting on your part won’t do a thing to change this embarassing fact.
In #30, pawikirogi wrote:
I completely agree: some American companies hire persons without proper documentation; they should be held accountable if they are found to have done so; yet, that does not seem to happen with the frequency one would imagine in a country which has approximately 10 million illegal immigrants. However, we were talking about a specific Korean case, not about an American general condition.
In this case, the employer is known to have hired persons who lacked proper government authorization. Your ‘it happens in America, too’ arguement unfortunately does nothing in terms of informing us abot the Korean law, and it’s that law (not its application) which I am interested in. Beyond that, however, there is nothing for me to ‘try’ - I have no other agenda. Please don’t muddy the waters.
The usual pawikirogi vitriol aside, it is an interesting conundrum to figure out why Koreans seem to simultaneously proclaim themselves the greatest people in the world, while at the same time obviously detesting the society they’ve built for themselves. On objective measures, there is so much to be proud of here that goes unpraised (part of what attracts us “low-quality foreigners” to live here), and oh so much to be concerned about — the cratered birthrate, sky-high divorce rate, spiraling cost of living (especially housing) and the screaming appetite of its citizens to emigrate. The recent poll which had so many Koreans wishing to have been born somewhere else was shocking.
Frankly, I have a feeling that under normal circumstances, the authorities would have turned a blind eye in the two lads’ cases. After the Mrs. Vershbow story, however, Immigration probably feels they need to enforce a zero-tolerance policy for a while lest they start taking shit from the public. So, in a way, the two actors—both of whom had been in two high-profile movies—are paying the price for Mrs. Vershbow’s sins.
At least that’s my theory.
The usual pawikirogi vitriol aside, it is an interesting conundrum to figure out why Koreans seem to simultaneously proclaim themselves the greatest people in the world, while at the same time obviously detesting the society they’ve built for themselves.
This is an easy one. Because Koreans are incredibly insecure. You ever notice how the biggest braggarts are usually people that are insecure and have “issues” while most people who are comfortable with themselves are usually the most laid back?
Koreans attitudes towards the foreigners in-country are natural given that most Koreans want to leave. Think about it. If most Koreans would rather be American, Canadian, Australian, British etc. and are trapped in Korea by accident of birth, how lame are YOU if you are an American and yet CHOOSES to be in Korea. There must be something wrong with you because while most Koreans are looking for the exit, you choose to stay in Korea voluntarily. “Why would you do this unless you can’t make it back home?” thinks the Korean since he/she desperately wants to get out of Korea. Plus the fact is that the world’s best and brightest are not clamoring to get into Korea. The place is a pain for all the reasons that the people on this blog talk about every day so it’s not exactly a hot spot for ex-pats.
Finally, the immigration case is obviously selective enforcement but the book is usually thrown at high-profile cases. The same thing would happen in the U.S. if a foreigner on a student visa did acting work for pay on the side or conversely if someone on an acting visa did bartending on the side. A recent E! Celebrity profile on Michael J. Fox a Canadian talked about how had no money when he was first in L.A. trying to make it cause his visa status did not allow him to be a waiter or bartender only act. The racist stuff on the message boards (and press(?)) is inexcusable of course but people on Internet message boards are idiots all over the world.
“Arghaeri, you can vote on an F-5 after x amount of years. I read in the papers that during the last local elections, only a couple of foreigners were elligible to vote. The visa hadn’t been around long enough for nearly all F-5 visa holders to fulfill the lenght of residency requirements to have the right to vote.”
Well, noted Someguy, and I am aware of the time limitation fro voting, my point though was you try finding the F5 and its entitlements on the immigration website.
Respectfully, Mr. K…
A friend of mine has done a lot of acting in Korea — first illegally, and now legally with an acting visa. Until a year or two ago, many teachers were doing illegal acting left and right. There were often ads in the classifieds of The Korea Herald website looking for foreigners to act. My friend did several of these jobs, and then was hired by the TV show, “Surprise.” My friend is no longer on the show.
Rumor was that the show paid under-the-table money to immigration officials so that they wouldn’t bust the foreigners acting on said show. Whether this is true, or a lie told to a foreinger in order to make him/her feel safe is anyone’s guess.
The truth is that most foreingers had no issues with acting and immigration busts until about 1 1/2 years ago. For whatever reason, and very suddenly, several were busted for acting on the show, and other shows, including a very popular drama often filmed in the Hyatt Hotel (the name escapes me at the moment, but Lee Un Ju was in it, I think). Panic insued amongst the small community of illegal actors. Rumor was that at least one (possibly more) Koreans who were hiring actors illegally were caught, their records searched, and fined. Their fines were said to have been “reduced” if they named names of other foreingers whom they’d hired in the past.
For a short time, movies were thought to be “safe.” They weren’t. The fact that these guys continued to do movies illegally tells me that they are either: A. Stupid. B. Thought they were being protected because of hush money.
about time immigration came down on these losers…
nothing wrong with what they are doing, except that its highly illegal.
on a tourist visa for a million won slap on the wrist…
immigration get your shit together, in Australia they’d be in a detention center
Oh, ok… now I remember the show’s name: Bul-say.
I forgot to add that the last time I spoke to my friend, it was mentioned that 11 of his/her friends had been busted for illegal acting in the past 6 months.
In my belief, most illegal actors these days are Russian. They can be had for less money. Their visas are often entertainment visas (although they would still need immigration approval on a per-show basis, from what I hear). The bottom has fallen out of the acting industry if you plan to do it illegally. I heard that a full day of work used to pay maybe 400,000 won. Two hours (about the minimum spend standing around waiting) could be closer to between 40,000 to 100,000 depending on the show and situation. These days, I think the Russians get a lot less, as they are plentiful, generally attractive, and aren’t needed to speak English anyway (extras).
Actual English speakers are needed in some situations, of course. That’s where these guys probably fit in.
“It’s actually quite amusing for me to experience First World white folks fulfilling the part of the perpetually victimized minority. ”
Actually, bluejives, what’s quite funny is how you seem to have us all figured out. Please refrain from projecting your own prejudices unto me. I can’t vouch for the other posters, but I’ve been subjected to prejudice all my life. The thing is…I’m not white. I never play the victim card…I’m far too cocky for that.
Robert, I think you have it wrong. I don’t see this as them paying the price for Mrs. Vershbow’s actions (for one, both actors weren’t American). I see this as a sign that the government agrees with me: Welcome to Dongmagol and The Host are bad movies and their association to these movies do not ammount to significant contributions to Korean society.
montclaire, bluejives is probably not Korean.
Someguy, you make me LOL — Dongmagol and The Host not amounting to significant contributions to society. HA!
My theory is that Immigration has been giving in to pressures about bribes over the past few years.
When I was busted for illegal teaching without an E-2 (I was in my 2nd day of work, and heading to Japan that week) the immigration official, according to my boss, bribed her — telling her they’d turn a blind eye is she paid them 5 million won (It might have been four). She refused, and they continued to bust the school. Her total fine turned out to be the same, anyway.
Maybe some of the crackdown on government bribes and corruption had an effect on them actually enforcing the law?
Geez…Golden Rule used to be that in Korea a bribe only works if you bribe someone NOT to do something, heh… But I suspect that bribes are less common these days
Who knows what is happening and why at immigration. Frequently administrators in Korea are shifted around every 2 years to avoid such corruption. A new one comes in, makes some waves, starts new protocols, gets lazy, and 2 years later a new guy starts the cycle all over again.
I’d be inclined to think that one of these guys got ratted out somehow, and the other was collateral damage.
There’s no reason to feel sorry for the actors. Like the various drug criminals who get in touch with us from time to time, they know — or should know (especially in the case of the clown “acting” on a tourist visa) — that what they were doing is illegal. Regardless of whether nobody else in Korea cares about the law, as a guest here, and one who is vulnerable to attracting official attention, foreign companies and foreign residents ought to comply as much as possible. And compliance with immigration law is easy — know what your original visa is for (tourist visas are for tourism, also known as “not work!”) and if another opportunity comes up, get permission from your “owner”.
If anybody knows David Anselmo’s contact information- I would love to do some media coverage on this guy- please forward his contact information to: mastersonresearch@yahoo.com
appreciated…thanks
p.s. it is urgent
“Koreans seem to … proclaim themselves the greatest people in the world”
What made you think so, Brendon?
I suppose if you take acting parts knowing your name is going to be rolling by on a screen in front of thousands of Immigration officers, you deserve to get kicked out. That’s just asking for it.
(BTW: Immigration is an increasingly user-friendly place to visit, I find, complete with women in sashes to help you fill out forms. We really can’t complain about the Immigration officials themselves.)
But there seem to be periodic purges of foreign men in the media. There was a time in the globalization-minded mid-1990s when young Korean-speaking foreign men were popping up all over the ha-ha-whooooo gabfest/quiz-show TV circuit, then suddenly they were gone. Apropos of which, I’ll be interested to see how long that new handsome German clown on Gag Concert lasts before Immigration conducts a thorough review of his status. My guess: until one of those entertainment-tonight style shows films him surrounded by screaming schoolgirls. Koreans prefer their wisecracking foreigners to be women married to Korean men.
Well, I’m a bit shocked that anyone is actually deported from Korea. 99% of the foreigners I’ve met in Korea are teaching privates, which is supposedly is necessary to able to afford to live in Seoul according to them given their English teacher salaries (W2.0 ~ 5m/month). What I *DO* find surprising is that people are apparently willing to pay W40,000 ~ 120,000 an hour for someone to speak crappy English to them; most say they make 3 to 4 times what they make in the day job doing privates.
What I find pretty funny also is that my kyopo friends are often told to flat out lie about their qualifications, not education (since it can be verified quite easily), but their English teaching work history and English teaching certifications. Poor kyopos, they have it so rough any where they go, and seemingly make 1/3 the salary as their Caucasian colleagues here in Korea.
Since I’ve already said what I have said above, and will probably be getting flamed any way, has anyone else noticed the ENORMOUS numbers of Arabs peddling their crap in subway stations? How exactly does a waygook go about getting a visa to sell crap on the street and in subways in Korea??
–Remort
Very true, montie…
We are the tasty fruit of the tree which hath been forbidden. Women of Korea stretch their lithe figures intently toward our foreign bounty which hangeth before them, yet they are allowed only to brush their fingertips against our nourishing skin. Though they yearn to taste us, they do so in vain, as the winds of immigration blow forth — set in motion by a typhoon of angst thundering from the bowels of Korean men.
As time marches on, we are still the fruit. The more of us they see hanging above them, the more desperate they will become to have us. Eventually, they will learn to leave the chains of this society behind, building a latter by which they can reach that forbidden fruit they desperately seek.
The women would much rather eat us than be stuck with the farting Korean man.
Oh my, I’m drunk…
Remort - Don’t dis our Islamic friends and their charming wares, unless you want to be flamed in the literal sense. Them folks is touchy.
Anyone who plays a foreign-devil Itaewon rapist or barbarian formaldehyde drainer deserves to be shat upon. Good riddance.
Frankly, I’m a bit puzzled why such an outcry of racism for Korean immigration enforcing some laws for a change. We all know how much lax they have been, when dealing with white European foreigners - as opposed to dark Third World 3-D workers. Korean government’s policy on immigration (or abuse, whichever you want to call it) on the other hand, is another debate entirely.
I see this no different from illegal Koreans being busted and being deported from the US. It would be ridiculous to see Koreans complaining about racism for breaking the law and being deported. A law is there to be enforced. I guess the accusation here is that Korean immigration is suddenly doing their jobs without preferential treatment of white people because of sinister motives?
montclaire, bluejives is probably not Korean.
Really? What makes you think that? Just curious.
BTW, so what are you? Dont be a mystery meat.
“montclaire, bluejives is probably not Korean.”
Look to my avatar. That is bluejives. I am serious.
http://img.photobucket.com/alb.....sthave.jpg
“SomeguyinKorea wrote:
Arghaeri, you can vote on an F-5 after x amount of years.”
I read that in the newspaper, too. They said that apart from some Taiwanese long-term residents, there were only a handful of foreigners eligible to vote in the last election. But my name turned up on the list months after receiving the F-5. I voted, and no one batted an eye. I know I’m not the only one, either.
Some laws are straightforward, but on a lot of things no one (including the lawmakers and enforcers) really knows what is going on.
Now, though, I think the laws are generally more generous and simpler than North American immigration law. For example, I got my spousal visa in 2 weeks for about 50,000 won, a few forms, and a half-hour interview over coffee in our living room. A few years ago I checked what it will take for my wife to get a spousal resident visa in Canada: about a hundred pages of forms and instructions, over $1000 dollars in fees, and over a year processing time (wedding videos, and other “evidence” of your legitimacy as a couple is suggested). Granted, one advantage to the bureaucracy is that it takes a lot longer to be deported from Canada.
Those that whine about Korean laws being too narrow and restrictive are either ignorant or arrogant.
I don’t think they’re unfairly narrow either. Capriciously enforced? Definitely. But that’s the Korean tradition, hence the average Korean’s conviction that laws exist only to serve the wealthy and powerful.
I like bluejives & pawi’s constant urge to find out the personal details of posters, the better to engage in ad hominem “rebuttals”.
They need to come to America where even the Illegals are allowed to march down the street buck naked and asking where they came from is against the law!
CM:
I’m not trying to be an ass, but isn’t there some truth to this notion?
After all, if you’re highly educated and marketable, why would you choose to live in lowly Korea, when you can live in areas with less social and economic problems like Japan, China, Vietnam, Thailand, Philippines, or Malaysia?
——————————————————————————–
Other than Japan, I seriously doubt those other Countries have less social economic problems considering the recent problems in Thailand.
I do find most commentary here by the expat community rather amusing. I have no idea how you guys wound up over there.
BTW, there’s an article in the Guardian today about how the US is pushing Ban for the UN post precisely because he is so obviously weak. In “Host” terms: he’ll pour the formaldehyde down the drain if he’s told to.
Good riddance, and may Korean immigration deport all these expat clown ‘actors’. They are just absolutely the most embarrassing and stereotype-reinforcing jackasses to the expat community here, and all of them play just two roles on Korean TV or movies: the clown, or the villain. Who here has not had them come on TV while you were enjoying a meal with Korean friends or family and cringed as they rolled their eyes ‘little-white-sambo’ style and yodeled “Oh! Kimchi is HOT! Ooooh! So hot to my tummy!” while skipping around the stage looking all the world like a 7 year old retarded child , or as villains cackled evil-ly over the helpless Korean maiden, seconds before the Korean male lead shows up to pound them (or nefariously polluted the Han, or beat up on a Korean disabled man, or …etc)?
May I suggest Korean immigration add whuppings, massive fines and body cavity searches to these arseholes too?
And may I nominate ‘hangul-speaking French wench’ as the expat acting-clown most needing deportion NOW.
Let’s not forget the “visiting foreign businessman” characters who appear solely in order to allow one of the leads to demonstrate his/her English language skills to the admiringly watching love interest (and the TV audience).
Hugh,
You seem to forget that it’s the scriptwriters, and director/producers who give the actors their lines and diirection….oh, hold on a moment we can’t blame them they’re korean so lets blame the actors who told to speak those corny lines instead.
Per Hugh’s #66 comment above: a few months ago, a senior staff member with a friend who was opening a Thai restaurant asked me to have a free meal at the place, providing that I would be filmed by a crew from SBS. I obliged him, knowing that I would be helping him out while having a free meal before heading home.
When a colleague and I arrived, we were told that we could order anything - food, alcohol, whatever - and to simply enjoy ourselves. That was easy enough, and the food really was tasty. When the crew came over and started filming, I was asked to give my opinion. Smiling away, I stated in Korean how delicious it was, and that the restaurant had a nice atmospere, so folks should come.
The reporter, behind camera, waved for me to stop, then began to wave his hand in a fanning motion in front of his mouth. Well, I knew what that meant. Wanting to help my Korean coworker out in his social obligation, I started to describe how damnably hot and spicy it was. This produced a satisfied reaction from the camera crew. For my part, I felt put off, but convinced myself that I was helping someone out, and after all, had had a good meal.
I thought that that was it, but a few days later an SBS producer called me up, saying that she wanted to do a 15-minute segment about me: home, family, job, etc. Well, at this point - with images of me acting the fool in hanbok, showing one and all how perfectly lovely ‘Life In Korea’™ was beginning to race through my brain - I passed. Later, my wife said that she was glad I hadn’t agreed, as she also worried that they would paint an unflattering picture of us. In fact, she worried that the piece would be edited into something negative, if they felt that they could get more milage out of it.
Korean media provides a caricature of both Koreans and non-Koreans. They don’t want the real story if it doesn’t fit their preconception, and they’ll force the change if necessary. Avoid them if possible.
CM, what outcry of racism?
The only references to racism have been pawikirogi and you!!
There’s been relatively little sympathy for these idiots, however there has been discussion, and perhaps criticism on whether their actions merit such a punishment and the korean immigration system generally. It is not credible to describe criticism and debate of the government and authorities as racist merely because the complainant are foreigners. I can assure you that where I am from its a national pastime to debate the merits and policies and laws of whomever is in power or authority if we do not agree with them.
The korean defensiveness to any criticism no matter how minor of korea is well known and experienced by expats here, and as noted the racism card was thrown in by pawakirogi and you because of the slight on korea of foreigners debating their immigration policy. A perfect example of this kind of unwarranted defensiveness being on my recent package trip to Thailand. A well educated korean professor, who had been generally excellent company and a gentleman throughout our trip asked me what I though of the trip so far. I replied that it was very enjoyable but that I was disappointed that having come all the way to Thailand the only meals we’d had in four days were korean. He immediately, in an offended tone, defended the korean nation, by saying that Korean food is very good. This regardless of the fact that I’d not insulted korean food, merely observed that having come to Thailand I’d actually like to try some Thai food, and I might add rather contrary to the complaints of many koreans on the tour, that the food was definately not up to the standard they would expect of a korean restaurants. There is no way he’d have replied in this way had I been korean.
Comments on nationalism have followed postings on the korean newspaper sites which, apparently, have regarded these minor law breakers as foreign scumbags, and quote “White homeless people who have nowhere to go but Korea” (see montclaire above). These were korean posting so the issue started their.
These have led to general comments treated pait has however led to a side discussion on the immigration system generally.
CM, perfect example from pawikirogi,
“Really? not too long ago, i had three (2 white and 1 filipino) friends watch 2 korean drama series, each one said they were surprised at the high level of acting skills. of course, they don’t despise koreans like you do, montclaire. can you speak korean, montclaire? i’ll bet you don’t. yet another expert on korea, man!”
Where was pawikrogi defense to YOUR comment on the acting skills of the two actors requested to leave which were equally “Can’t they find not one professional white actor who don’t actually sound like they’re playing their highschool plays’ parts? I can’t believe that they can’t even find ONE.” (Note, you’re the one who’s inferring race with reference to white actors, no-one here has referred to korean actors as yellow.)
No only a “brilliantly conclusive” defense of korean acting skill combined with an unnecessary personal attack on montclaire, who had only been replying to your comment. And brilliantly conclusive it was: a philipino (a country well known for its international exports of high quality drama), and two indeterminate white friends (note non-whites identified by their country, whites by the coolour of their skin) perhaps american (a country well known for high quality well acted dramas such as Sunset Beach, and General Hospital), with evidence as great as this who could ever doubt that the acting in all korean dramas is top class.
Thank you again, pawikrogi, for your keen acumen and debating skills.
Someguy, you’re spot on, but from what I’ve heard one of the reasons so few were elegible to vote, was becuase the qualfication period runs from when you get the F5, regardless of how long you’ve been in Korea, and many of the people who were eligible for an F5 when it came out never knew it existed so never applied for it. As noted above you still can’t find out about it on the korean immigration website!
Shindleshanks,
Appreciate what you’re saying and immigration situation has improved in recent years, but just because it may or may not be better than Noth American rules doesn’t mean there isn’t room for improvement, nor that any complaint is ignorant or arrogant.
My wife’s visa took 45 minutes (OK - a four hour queue to get to the desk, but only 45 minutes to actually process), and the formal papers were ready 2 days later. This was classed as a provisional visa for one year, to ensure genuine marriage, but immediately entitled her to work anywhere at any time with equal access to employment as any national. This then converted in an equally short process to full residency rights after one year, and after a certain period automatically conferred permanent residency not dependant on our continued marital status.
However, for a long time a korean marriage visa would only have entitled me to residence, a separate visa/endorsement was required for employement and then on pretty much the same basis as a single applicant. i.e. I was pretty much restricted to a teaching job. Even now I believe I have to have immigration approval if I change jobs, I still have to apply for renewal regularly, and until I have been here long enough to acquire an F5 have no semblance of permanent residency rights and then only because I know about the F5 and am therefore able to apply for it. Numerous friends were eligible years ago but didn’t know until I told them. (and ironically, it seems I can acquire Korean citizenship more quickly than than an F5 visa)
“montclaire, bluejives is probably not Korean.
Really? What makes you think that? Just curious.
BTW, so what are you? Dont be a mystery meat. ”
bluejives, you just give off the “Bushido vibe”.
As for my ethnic background… It’s irrelevant. I’ve already made my point.
Arghaeri, I got my F-5 shortly before the elections, so I wasn’t registered to vote. Koreans laws are funny. According to new immigration laws, F-2 and F-5 visa holders can do whatever job they are qualified to do, but getting a permit to tutor students from the board of education can be frustrating because they still insist that foreigners cannot tutor students, regardless of what the law states.
Sorry, meant the “Kushibo vibe”.
Here’s the alpha-male of the expat clown troupe! Many’s the time I thought of picking up the phone and sicc’ing immigration on him my own self.
http://theyangpa.wordpress.com.....-his-cage/
I’m with ya, Hugh. He’s cringe-inducing all right.
Stephen Revere is the only foreigner on TV that doesn’t act the clown. I’m sure he gets asked to but a bit of self respect as opposed to the mighty won is too much to ask those other foreign idiots.
Ack… hate that. When I went on a package tour to Thailand, I pretty much ditched the restaurants the tour company sent us to, just on general principle of wanting to spend my time there not eating the same food I’d been eating the last couple years. I just can’t understand the people who go to a foreign country and refuse to try the native cuisine. Well… unless they’re in Iceland. Rotten shark and ram’s testicles are just a bit too adventuresome…
Our aesthetic doesn’t sell here, but the English-monkey shtick does. Who can blame Isaac for delivering what the market wants? He earns a living and I’d wager the “fringe benefits” of being an EBS English monkey are plentiful.
But by that logic, Brendan, one can’t reproach the black actors in the US who played Step’n Fetchit characters.
Well, those black actors surely didn’t create the demand for Step’n Fetchit, and they needed to work too — so yep, that seems to be an applicable analogy.
OK…I just can’t help thinking that the English monkeys are in large part responsible for the way the EBS generation uses “Hello” or “Hi” to mean “야!” or “Turn around so we can see your face!” The monkeys are never used to demonstrate that communication with foreigners can and should be a natural thing.
The monkey in question, for example, comes bumbling onto the set of that one Korean English show (the especially annoying one with the host in the toupe, and the talents, where they repeat one phrase over and over), shouts something idiotic - “난 아파요! sick!” or something - and bumbles off again. At least Sammy Davis Jr got to hang with the Rat Pack.
Origami said in post #64:
COUGH, COUGH. Among the countries you listed, only one is more economically developed and offers a higher standard of living: Japan. I lived in the more developed east coast of China for four years, and let me tell you, China has far more serious social and economic problems than Korea. China is a fascinating country, but Korea is a much easier place to live, IMHO. I have visited all of the other countries mentioned, except Vietnam. Thailand and the Philippines have grinding poverty in the countryside and in the cities, and both are battling violent Muslim insurgencies. Malaysia is a really pleasant country with an appealing diverse culture. Its social problems are less visible because the government strictly censors the media.
Hi Someguy,
Thanks for the info, but where can you get this in writing. I’ve been told similar things by immigration, but they’re never able to show me where it’s written down for me to check, nor can I find it on any governmental site. I know some laws have been translated into English and are at the MOLEG (Ministry of Legislation) site, but (and maybe I’m doing something wrong here) I can’t seem find the rules related to working on visas. Since I’ve often been given different answers by different officials to various question, and different info on the varied governmental website I’d really like to see the law written down, rather than relying on the word of immigration official. This is particularly so since I normally ring at least twice and ask questions before I go, frequently get different answers, and have on occasions had to suggest, very carefully of course, that they confer with their colleagues on certain points.
For example although I’m currently on a F2-1 I’ve still had to provide letters etc. from my employers, albeit not as sponsors, and still have to show that my wife has a certain amount in the bank to support me, despite the fact i’m the one with the job……
I would really appreciate it if you, or anyone else, can tell me where I can get these rules written down by an official body.
When I got my F-2-1, it was a similar story. The first was good. He looked my packet over, told me what I didn’t have and how to get it (go to that fax machine, have your wife fax you her employment certificate, go across the street and get this other thing), then upon my request looked over what paper work and had and told me how to fix it. No problem. I get this taken care of…
now I go to the second guy, he imediately starts bitching to the person next to him about how my mairrage certificate is half in English, being jointly issued by the embassy and Jongo-gu office. Then pointed to a signature/date problem (ok that was my my bad),
Next day, everything has been corrected to the stringent specifications of the first two guys and now I get -
imigration: “yeah, this is all right but, do you have anything else?”
me :”like…?”
Imm: “like something that shows you can support her”
me: “well, shes the one with the job”
Imm: “yes but shes only had it for one month”
me: thinking -This matters how?! This is a rule?!!
Imm: do you have a job?
me: (on a student visa at the time) ahem…. …. No. I had this stuff verified by the two guys sitting next to you, and checked it across your korean website, they never said I needed anything else.”
Imm: well there is no actually rule that you need anything in particular, but we want to see something that shows us you have some sort of to asset to help you live here, whose house do you live in?”
me: “mine”
Imm: “Yours?! You mean, you pay rent?! You? uh ok, that works, when you go home fax me the contract for you apartment”
me: …huh?
so, there you have it, no rules really, some people at the counter just “want to see somehting else” thats all there is to it.
I have just come across this news article and blog in recent days. I didnt think that this kind of news made it into the english speaking world. I happy to see that foreigners living in Korea get some kind of exposure. Thank you to whoever posted this article.
One thing that I do have a problem with, is that this article is not 100 percent acurate. When we tried to set the record straight with the Korean news agency by submitting a retractment letter, the editor refused to post it in their newspaper. Here is the letter that was ment to be sent. Hope this clarifies things for those who are interested.
Sincerely,
David Joseph Anselmo
SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA OCTOBER 05, 2006:
First and foremost, I would like to clarify the situation reported today in regards to the immigration issue for the movie, The Host, and my involvement in it.
Most importantly, the comments made by Clinton Morgan do not reflect my opinions in any way. I am embarrassed and disgusted to be associated with those types of comments, and would like to make it clear that in no way am I in agreement with Mr. Morgan.
On the contrary, I have had a wonderful experience living in South Korea, and I am very appreciative of all of the opportunities it has given me. I have met many kind people and have been able to experience things here that I would not be able to anywhere else in the world. I truly have a sincere appreciation and respect for Korea, its culture, and Korean people.
When filming the movie The Host, I was on a 90-day Entertainment Work Visa. Although the production company and I were under the impression that my work on the movie was covered under this visa, we recently discovered that it was not. It was never my intention to to break the law while shooting this film.
In order to compensate for my mistake, a fine has already been paid to the Korean Immigration department. I am a firm believer of doing things legally, and I have the utmost respect for the law. I understand that wherever you travel in the world, there are different laws, and I endeavor to follow the laws of any country who accepts me as a visitor.
The South Korean movie industry has seen amazing growth and is being recognized all around the world. The filmmakers of Korea have done an amazing job of creating films that people all over the world want to see. I am very happy to play a role in this industry, and am very proud of what Korea has accomplished. I look forward to contributing all of my energy to Korean films and my work in the future.
Busan 9, take a lesson from a gentleman.
I didn’t get a chance to read all the posts, but the ones that stick out the most were by someone by the handle of “CM”. It is clear to me that this person didn’t have a very good experience in korea. and therefore, is lashing out. i’m glad all you folks here are expert historians and psychiatrists. you seem to know everything about korean history and know exactly how koreans think. (is my sarcasm obvious?) korea is not for everybody. that statement can be said about any country. to make statements that you claim to be factual…such as “koreans are not patriots, but are nationalist”…”korea is a lowly country”…”korea is poor nation and everybody wants to leave”…”you have to be pathetic to even want to live in such a place”…i can go on here.
To CM…I think korea is glad that you are gone. you obviously went there with a certain expectation and when those expectations were not met, you automatically blaimed korea and its people. don’t argue with me on this…this is exactly the way I see it. it’s attitudes like yours that koreans hate…you know the attitude..”i’m white, i am more civilized,