Joshua over at the Korea Liberator just testified before Congress on all things Korea:
Well, I can’t thank Rep. Henry Hyde’s staff enough for believing that a fire-eater with high-speed internet access qualifies as an expert competent to testify before a committee of Congress. You have to know that all is not well in the alliance when that can happen, although I really don’t know who’s pretending that all is well these days. My testimony mainly covered anti-Americanism, SOFA and criminal jurisdiction stuff, and those pictures that I will keep flogging until there’s no longer a reason to do so.
While all that ground to cover, it is little wonder he went over his five-minute time limit a little bit.
When you get an invitation for something like that, it is hard not to put on your ‘aw shucks, I’m just a guy with a computer’ routine (Few things will get folks in bloggerland to turn on you than being perceived as big-headed.), but anyone who reads his stuff will acknowledge that he puts out of the best researched and documented posts on Korea in the IKK.
Here is his written testimony. On page four you will find that Josh notes that this blog’s very own dear leader disagrees with him on the veracity of some polls that show high levels of anti-Americanism in the ROK. Hopefully, I will have time to read the rest of his testimony next week. In the meantime, I would really like to hear reader reviews.
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Joshua pulled no punches and did an excellent job of describing almost every aspect of the situation in Korea, but I want to make two comments about his report.
First, a percentage of the anti-Americanism in Korea is variable, which means it can be manipulated. The Korean media coverage and Korean government officials can probably manipulate between 20 and 40 percent of the Korean public mood toward the United States and regularly do so. When they want Koreans to be anti-American, they push one button; when they want them to be pro-American, they push another.
The Korean government often pushes the anti-American button when they are in negotiations with the United States. After they push that anti-American button, they then turn to the American negotiators and say, “We would like to accommodate you, but Korean public opinion will not allow us.” When it looks like the anti-Americanism is getting out of hand and may hurt Korean interests, Korean officials push the pro-American button. That is part of Korea’s negotiation strategy.
I think US officials have finally gotten wise to “button” strategy. For example, it probably shocked the hell out of many Koreans, when the US started talking about pulling many of her troops out of Korea. Korean officials started pushing the pro-American button, but it was too it. They had pressed that anti-American button one too many times.
Second, Joshua made the following statement:
Joshua talked about “spurious historical revisionism” and manipulation of the facts by the Korean media and government in regard to incidents and events involving the United States, but he seems to assume that Koreans have not used the same methods against the Japanese to describe event during Korea’s colonial period. Actually, I wonder if the Japanese rule in colonial Korea was really that much more “ruthless” than that of the American rule in the Philippines?
Actually, I wonder if the Japanese rule in colonial Korea was really that much more “ruthless” than that of the American rule in the Philippines?
For what it’s worth– the Japanese often cracked down on Koreans who spoke Korean. My mother has relatives who were beaten and forced to stand out in the snow after they’d been caught speaking in their mother tongue. To me, that would be an example of ruthlessness. I don’t know anything about the history of the American presence in the Philippines, so I don’t know whether the Americans severely punished Filipinos if, say, Tagalog was spoken.
Anyway, I realize that a personal anecdote isn’t the same thing as a sweeping argument, but I suspect there are many Koreans with stories similar to those of my mother’s relatives.
Kevin
See my comments at ‘The Korea Liberator’.
An after-thought: Having Kalani O’Sullivan provide testimony (as a viewpoint of someone having eyes and ears on the ground in the Osan/Kunsan areas) would have added substantial depth to the roster.
By the way, is there any reason that Kalani’s website is NOT included on this site’s webroll?
The American occupation of the PI cannot be equally compared to what Japan did to Korea. The PI wasn’t being co-opted/absorbed, and was loosely administrated by Filipinos. The list goes on. No, no comparison.
Bighominid,
Giving students swaps and having them stand in the snow for speaking Korean in the classroom is not nearly as bad as intentionally running them over with a US army tank and then laughing about it afterwards. Both events happened, right?
Your mother has relatives who were beaten and forced to stand in the snow for speaking Korean, huh? Well, I wonder if it is like “whisper game”? That is, you whisper something in the ear of one person, who then whispers it into the ear of the next person in line. By the time it gets to the end of the line, the message is completely different from the original.
I met an elderly Korean man in a park here in Incheon about three years ago, and we talked about Korea’s colonial period. I asked him if Koreans were forced to speak Korean back then, and he said only in the classroom. I then asked him what would happen if they spoke Korean in class, and he said the teacher would just tell them to stop. Of course, one teacher is different from another, so maybe your mother’s relative’s teacher disciplined her students differently.
I remember getting two swats in the seventh grade for talking to a friend in class. It happened in Texas in the late sixties when swats were still given out pretty frequently. The swats hurt, but I still remember them only as swats. I wonder, however, if someday my son will tell his children that their grandfather was once “beaten” for talking in class?
Richardson wrote:
How much Phlippine history do you know, Richardson? Here is a quote from Wikipedia concerning the Philipine-American War:
Going by Gbever’s logic, why the hell did America fight Japan in WWII, when Japan was the good guy with good intentions for its neighbors? Why did America get in the way of Japan’s noble intention to create a master East Asian empire under Japan’s rule? Doesn’t that make America the bad guy? All those Marine schmucks at IWO Jimma, Guadacanal, Saipan, Okinawa, they died for nothing.
I hope this question doesn’t put you off too much Beve, but what exactly motivates you to such lengths in your attempted defense of Japan’s colonial history? You are, and I’m assuming here, an older gentlemen and I really cannot understand the root of your passion regarding the conflicting discourses in Japan’s wartime responsibilities. The other stooges at Occidentalism I can accept as young Japanoid smacktards, but you sir are an enigma. Is it simply that your experiences in Korea has soured you to the extent (I can see how this can occur, Korea vexes me enough as is and I’ve never been to the country!) that you simply see yourself as repaying all the real and imagined slights and grievances? I don’t feel I am presuming on you since the majority of your comments at the Marmot’s chute shoot is either a condemnation of Korea or an exhoneration of one of Japan’s more dissreputable periods.
Honestly, why?
This is quite a pointless hijacking of a post on Joshua’s excellent KOREA statement.
Slim,
I apologize for having abetted the hijacking. And I agree that Joshua’s statement is excellent.
Kevin
Ugh, more Bevers nonsense. For god’s sake, the Japanese treated the Japanese horribly as the Taisho democratic ago gave way to Showa militaryism… then much, much worse after 1937. Do you seriously believe that, as Japan descended into ultranationalist military rule at home, they treated their Korean colony all lovey-dovey?
As much as I dislike people exaggerating Japanese cruelty in the early and middle period of its colonization of Korea, I really hate apologists who delude themselves into thinking it did not happen in the later period.
Oops. Now I have continued the hijacking. Sorry.
Back on topic - Joshua’s stuff was quite good. But I will be more impressed when he is on The Daily Show. (winky emoticon)
Japan has anime, Sony, Toyota, Sailor Moon school girls, sushi, and suki yaki - Japan is cool. That’s why it’s palatable to agree with Japanese historic revisionism - because Emperor Hirohito, the Samurais, Admiral Yamamoto, Tojo, and the Kamikazees are all cool relics of cool Japanese culture. Japanese are hip. They are cool, they are sexy because they were warriors who conquered and who tried to help all those stupid ignorant Asians.
Then you have the Koreans - decendents of Chosun that nobody cares about - dirt poor, stupid ignorant starving peasants who couldn’t defend themselves without outside help. Their historic revisionisms on the other hand, are unforgivable and disgusting, and they should not be allowed to get away with it.
“young Japanoid smacktards”
Jing, very funny (and I’m not French like you said before, damn it, my proxy server thing here is).
I can’t believe Mr. Bevers is serious about the “button” analogy–there is indeed pro- and anti-American sentiment in Korea, in mutually exclusive groups of course, and no government (esp. Roh’s) can manipulate both Hanchongryon and Korean War vets. That’s cartoon logic.
OP: Kudos for Joshua arguing that the U.S. should have some military presence in Korea to stave off an arms race (and keep “communist” China in line).
What can I say michael, it all began one mild Florida summer several years ago when I was still in my sophomore year. For one tortuous semester, I was roommates with I can only describe as a giant steaming pile of crap excuse of a human being who was perhaps the world’s largest Japanophile nee Nihongophile. The man-child was so obnoxiously irritating that it took nearly all my collective willpower not to smother him in his sleep with his own semen encrusted sock. Ever since then, the faintest wiff of Japanophilia has triggered a gag reflex in me
My last job in L.A., there was a guy in his 30s, huge pot belly, acne face, who had his whole cublicle filled with Sailor Moon crap. That’s MY disturbing Japanophile image.
You can’t say that Gerry doesn’t bring up a very good question. If it is possible for someone to fabricate events that took place with Korea/America, why is it not possible for the same someone to do the same when the topic is Korea/America?
The west wasn’t happy with Japan colonizing SE Asia because the west had already colonized it first. That fact was, I think, a very deciding point in the Germany/Japan alliance. Most all of the colonized Japan took had become colonies of Germany when Germany took the original colonizers. Japan basically called up Germany and asked, “do you want these islands?” Germany had bigger things on their mind, and had no complaints to Japan taking the territories.
Image a thief who robs a bank, puts all the money under his mattress, and then he himself gets robbed. Now said thief as all pissed at the guy who stole his money from under the mattress.
This has always been the funniest argument I’ve ever heard. People will say that someone who disagrees with them on Japan is a ‘Japanophile’ because they’ve either a) been to Japan, or b) been in a relationship with a Japanese person. But the people pointing the finger will either be a) have been to Korea/China b) are/have been in a relationship with a Korean/Chinese person c) Korean/Chinese themselves. If having stepped foot in Japan makes me biassed, then being born and raised in Korea/China makes the 15 billion natives as well as every single person here biassed as well because you have also been to Korea/China yourselves.
Hypocrites all around eh?
Doh..
“why is it not possible for the same someone to do the same when the topic is Korea/America?” should be “why is it not possible for the same someone to do the same when the topic is Korea/Japan?”
Sorry for the type-o and double post.
Close call Michael, but you didn’t have to live with him for 5 months, or did you?
…
Darin sez
The west wasn’t happy with Japan colonizing SE Asia because the west had already colonized it first. That fact was, I think, a very deciding point in the Germany/Japan alliance. Most all of the colonized Japan took had become colonies of Germany when Germany took the original colonizers. Japan basically called up Germany and asked, “do you want these islands?” Germany had bigger things on their mind, and had no complaints to Japan taking the territories.
Say what?
This has always been the funniest argument I’ve ever heard. People will say that someone who disagrees with them on fudge packing is an ‘ass pirate’ because they’ve either a) packed fudge, or b) been in a relationship with a fudge packer. But the people pointing the finger will either be a) not fudge packers b) are/have been in a relationship with a non fudge packer c) or are muff divers. If having stepped foot in another man’s bum makes me biassed, then being born and raised in Korea/China makes the 15 billion natives as well as every single person here biassed as well because you have also been to Korea/China yourselves.
You are approaching sock levels here Darin. There are plenty of people I disagree regarding a multitude of issues who have been to Japan that aren’t fudg… Japanophiles. It just that some people [sic you] seem to have a lacfadio hearn shaped buttplug wedged so far up their arse that it’s interfereing with brain signals.
The odd thing is, I am ever so uncertain as to why. At least Western defenders of the failings of the former Soviet Union or China and far left regimes in general tend to be “fellow travelers” and have an ideological affinity towards Marxism i.e. a cause. So far the only quality that seems to bind the defenders of Japan is a love of pocky (and fudge packing!) and the time-honoured usage of red herrings.
Yargh! Do the comments support HTML? How do you get block quotes?
Using the command ‘blockquote’ in carrots will render block quotes.
Ah yes, make your case more convincing by continuing with the personal insults. You’re certain to get me to warm up to your side that way.
Also, before you get to excited, do remember that you’re the one that randomly called me out with an unprovoked attack. So I don’t want to hear anybody saying I’ve poisoned the comments because they were poisoned long before I came along.
Bevers, your quote is about the “war,” while I spoke of the “occupation of the PI.”
The camps were used to isolate the civilians from the guerillas during the war, thus not allowing the minority of civilians who supported guerillas give them aid.
The “war” is not the same thing as the “occupation.”
How much do you know about it?
Actually, a caret (’carrot’) is the upwards-pointing angly thing here: ^ . The proper typographical term for what you’re talking about is ‘brackets’ (angle brackets).
Anyhow, I don’t mean to interrupt the bickering. Have at.
Haha, thanks Zonath. My bad.
“Giving students swaps …in the classroom is not nearly as bad as intentionally running them over with a US army tank and then laughing about it afterwards. Both events happened, right?”
GB, you aren’t really saying that you believed that disinformation BS story about the two school girls being “murdered” by the tank carrier, are you? If so, I’m sorry to say that I had presumed you to be more critical in your reasoning skills.
Lirelou,
Of course, I do not believe that the school girls were intentionally murdered by the tank carrier drivers and that the drivers laughed about it, afterwards, but that is want many Koreans were saying and it even appeared on Korea TV news. That was an absurd lie spread by certain groups of Koreans to incite hatred for the US and the US military, in particular. It was hateful and disgusting and showed me just how far some Koreans would go to promote their cause.
I can still remember watching a special report on Korean TV (I think it was MBC) showing a former Korean army tank driver pointing to pictures of the two dead schoolgirls and explaining how the tread tracks on their dead bodies showed that the tank carrier drivers drove over them multiple times to make sure that the girls were dead. I was disgusted that Korean TV would do a special program with that idiot. It was a blatant attempt to incite hate for the US and the US military.
The point I was trying to make my post was that you cannot always believe Koreans when it comes to describing events because many seem to have little or no qualms about using lies and exaggerations to promote a personal or national cause. When Koreans describe the situation and events in colonial Korea, I think people have to be especially wary.
bighominid,
If the Japanese government was so intent on destroying the Korean language, I wonder why it allowed the publication of the first Korean dictionary in 1925 for use in public schools? (The image is a copy of the 3rd edition printed in 1930.)
http://japanese.chosun.com/sit.....00088.html
Or prepare a textbook for teaching the Korean language in class?
http://toron.pepper.jp/jp/20cf/touchi/kyouka.html
Or let Chosun Ilbo to continue printing in Korean in 1940?
http://toron.pepper.jp/jp/20cf.....n1940.html
G. Bevers. Thank you for taking the time to answer that. (Whew!, wipe brow) I withdraw and aspersions I may have cast upon your reasoning skills and render a humble bow.
Two Cents,
The ban, or partial ban, came closer to WWII, not as early as you describe.
Looking at the 1940 pic you link to, how many hangul letters to you spot? Three or four? The rest is hanja. At least from what I can see w/o a better pic.
The Korean language used a combination of hanja and hangul before Pres. Park’s policy of abolishing hanja completely from the Korean language. There are more hangul letters than just 3 or 4 in the pic. Even in the first 12 letters at the beginning of the article, 4 are definitely hangul. Hangul characters in the article are as abundant as one would find hiragana in a Japanese newpaper article. The partial ban you speak of was the removal of the Korean language from compulsory subjects at schools. It simply became elective.
http://times.hankooki.com/lpag.....611690.htm
It seems the Japanese government allowed Korean-language movies filmed by a Korean director for the Korean audience to be made up to 1943.
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[...] TKL’s Joshua Stanton, a former United States Army Judge Advocate Generals Corps prosecutor and defense attorney, has his five plus minutes (and a whole lot more written into the public record) (via Lost Nomad and Marmot) before the US House International Relations Committee, giving testimony on the state of the ROK-US alliance. It’s a good day for the blogosphere and the average citizen’s unadulterated experiences and opinions. Best when he recounts events in which he directly participated, Stanton nonetheless delivers TKL’s prespective on the Korean side of an alliance existing on paper, but always changing with the political winds in both countries. [...]