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	<title>Comments on: Lisa Vershbow, Call Me</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: robert neff</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50918</link>
		<dc:creator>robert neff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50918</guid>
		<description>Sounds like another historical article coming out soon - the French and the Americans argued this same thing nearly 110 years ago.  Only it involved servants working for them.  Come to think of it there were many such instances of claims for diplomatic immunity - wasn't called that back then.  If you remember right, Bethell tried to protect his newspaper's editor by hiding him in his (Bethell's) home and sending up the British Ensign claiming his house was protected under British law - of course the British consul didn't agree.  Sounds like an interesting article.

As for Gwangsan and the Marmot - one of the great things about owning your own Blog - you decide what is and isn't stupid.  Frankly - I fully agree with Marmot.

You are mixing issues - telling half-truths and overly-generalizing.  I am always amazed at real estate - no matter where it is in Korea - is considered prime when it involves the military.  Speaking bluntly to elderly people is truly something that only American military do to the Korean people - right saam? ---oops shouldn't have used that saam - that is only open for young Korean people to use as a blunt form - even to the teachers.  I am sure that Korean TV gives us more than enough examples of improper Korean being used by the young to their elders and seniors.  Did you ever think that maybe the reason why the GIs are using the improper phrases are because those are the phrases they learned from their Korean friends?  When I went to DLI - our books all had 한국분 and 미국인 in them - when we switched the nouns around to 한국인 and 미국분 we were yelled at by our Korean instructors for being disrespectful.....hmmm.

"Invaders into Korea" - do we need to go there?  Free-living?  Ask a GI if he feels like he is living the "free life" in Korea - I am fairly sure that many of them wouldn't agree with you.

You further attack the Marmot with your  "So you go around to a temple or two and take pictures… who’s after a cookie, here?"  He naturally, and rightfully, came back by quoting your “I speak proudly as Korean who can trace their ancestry back 17 generations.” Who cares how many generations you can trace your ancestry back - does that make you a better Korean than someone who can only trace theirs back four generations?  Lets go further - anyone who can not trace their ancestry back to the establishment of the United States is not as American as someone who arrived in 1901 or perhaps ten years ago - is that what you are saying?  

Patriotism isn't automatically instilled into a person because they were born in that country - otherwise all of these women having babies in the United States (not just Korean - but from all nationalities) would have children that were all furiously patriotic to the United States.  We all know that is not true.  Just remember - most of the Koreans who were Japanese sympathizers who supported Japan's annexation of Korea could probably have traced their ancestory back more than five or ten generations too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like another historical article coming out soon - the French and the Americans argued this same thing nearly 110 years ago.  Only it involved servants working for them.  Come to think of it there were many such instances of claims for diplomatic immunity - wasn&#8217;t called that back then.  If you remember right, Bethell tried to protect his newspaper&#8217;s editor by hiding him in his (Bethell&#8217;s) home and sending up the British Ensign claiming his house was protected under British law - of course the British consul didn&#8217;t agree.  Sounds like an interesting article.</p>
<p>As for Gwangsan and the Marmot - one of the great things about owning your own Blog - you decide what is and isn&#8217;t stupid.  Frankly - I fully agree with Marmot.</p>
<p>You are mixing issues - telling half-truths and overly-generalizing.  I am always amazed at real estate - no matter where it is in Korea - is considered prime when it involves the military.  Speaking bluntly to elderly people is truly something that only American military do to the Korean people - right saam? &#8212;oops shouldn&#8217;t have used that saam - that is only open for young Korean people to use as a blunt form - even to the teachers.  I am sure that Korean TV gives us more than enough examples of improper Korean being used by the young to their elders and seniors.  Did you ever think that maybe the reason why the GIs are using the improper phrases are because those are the phrases they learned from their Korean friends?  When I went to DLI - our books all had 한국분 and 미국인 in them - when we switched the nouns around to 한국인 and 미국분 we were yelled at by our Korean instructors for being disrespectful&#8230;..hmmm.</p>
<p>&#8220;Invaders into Korea&#8221; - do we need to go there?  Free-living?  Ask a GI if he feels like he is living the &#8220;free life&#8221; in Korea - I am fairly sure that many of them wouldn&#8217;t agree with you.</p>
<p>You further attack the Marmot with your  &#8220;So you go around to a temple or two and take pictures… who’s after a cookie, here?&#8221;  He naturally, and rightfully, came back by quoting your “I speak proudly as Korean who can trace their ancestry back 17 generations.” Who cares how many generations you can trace your ancestry back - does that make you a better Korean than someone who can only trace theirs back four generations?  Lets go further - anyone who can not trace their ancestry back to the establishment of the United States is not as American as someone who arrived in 1901 or perhaps ten years ago - is that what you are saying?  </p>
<p>Patriotism isn&#8217;t automatically instilled into a person because they were born in that country - otherwise all of these women having babies in the United States (not just Korean - but from all nationalities) would have children that were all furiously patriotic to the United States.  We all know that is not true.  Just remember - most of the Koreans who were Japanese sympathizers who supported Japan&#8217;s annexation of Korea could probably have traced their ancestory back more than five or ten generations too.</p>
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		<title>By: Foreign actors in &#8216;The Host&#8217; deported at The Marmot&#8217;s Hole</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50878</link>
		<dc:creator>Foreign actors in &#8216;The Host&#8217; deported at The Marmot&#8217;s Hole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 07:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50878</guid>
		<description>[...] My advice to both&#8212;next time you engage in activities outside of your visa status in Korea, make sure you&#8217;re married to the American ambassador. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] My advice to both&#8212;next time you engage in activities outside of your visa status in Korea, make sure you&#8217;re married to the American ambassador. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: hardyandtiny</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50522</link>
		<dc:creator>hardyandtiny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50522</guid>
		<description>"I am apalled at the way some of these GIs speak to the local people and in the Confucian mindset of Koreans, to speak to an elder in this fashion is particularly unacceptable".

Which group is best at relating to the Confucian Korean mindset?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I am apalled at the way some of these GIs speak to the local people and in the Confucian mindset of Koreans, to speak to an elder in this fashion is particularly unacceptable&#8221;.</p>
<p>Which group is best at relating to the Confucian Korean mindset?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Koehler</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50520</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Koehler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50520</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Tell me what makes you such an expert in Korean Cultural Identity, mate?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nothing. Never said I was. All I said was your comment was stupid. And your subsequent comments have simply reinforced my initial view.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;So you go around to a temple or two and take pictures… who’s after a cookie, here?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That would be you, Mr. "I speak proudly as Korean who can trace their ancestry back 17 generations."&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Look, I'm sorry that some English hagwon turned you down for a job because you're ethnic Korean, or that your girlfriend dumped you for a white guy, or some Korean gave you shit because your spoken Korean is funny from spending so many years abroad. But I've got enough angry people who can't rationally argue a point hanging around this blog, both Korean and non-Korean. I don't need another.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Have a good one. Mate.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Tell me what makes you such an expert in Korean Cultural Identity, mate?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Nothing. Never said I was. All I said was your comment was stupid. And your subsequent comments have simply reinforced my initial view.</p>
<blockquote><p>So you go around to a temple or two and take pictures… who’s after a cookie, here?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That would be you, Mr. &#8220;I speak proudly as Korean who can trace their ancestry back 17 generations.&#8221;</p>
<p>Look, I&#8217;m sorry that some English hagwon turned you down for a job because you&#8217;re ethnic Korean, or that your girlfriend dumped you for a white guy, or some Korean gave you shit because your spoken Korean is funny from spending so many years abroad. But I&#8217;ve got enough angry people who can&#8217;t rationally argue a point hanging around this blog, both Korean and non-Korean. I don&#8217;t need another.</p>
<p>Have a good one. Mate.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwangsan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50514</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwangsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 08:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50514</guid>
		<description>Dear Happy-snapping-tourist-cum-expert-on-matters-that-are-deemed "stupid",

Tell me what makes you such an expert in Korean Cultural Identity, mate?  So you go around to a temple or two and take pictures... who's after a cookie, here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Happy-snapping-tourist-cum-expert-on-matters-that-are-deemed &#8220;stupid&#8221;,</p>
<p>Tell me what makes you such an expert in Korean Cultural Identity, mate?  So you go around to a temple or two and take pictures&#8230; who&#8217;s after a cookie, here?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Koehler</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50512</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Koehler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 08:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50512</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You clearly misinterpret my protestations as Communist rants. Please withdraw your insulting insinuations.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Nope.  Stupid comments earn stupid responses.
&lt;blockquote&gt; I speak proudly as Korean who can trace their ancestry back 17 generations...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Congratulations.  What do you want, a cookie?
&lt;blockquote&gt;NOT as a bigot on either the Communist’s side or as a extreme right-wing American&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Whatever you say, tough guy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You clearly misinterpret my protestations as Communist rants. Please withdraw your insulting insinuations.</p></blockquote>
<p>Nope.  Stupid comments earn stupid responses.</p>
<blockquote><p> I speak proudly as Korean who can trace their ancestry back 17 generations&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Congratulations.  What do you want, a cookie?</p>
<blockquote><p>NOT as a bigot on either the Communist’s side or as a extreme right-wing American</p></blockquote>
<p>Whatever you say, tough guy.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwangsan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50509</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwangsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 08:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50509</guid>
		<description>Dear Pseudo-Korea-file Koehler,

You clearly misinterpret my protestations as Communist rants.  Please withdraw your insulting insinuations.  I speak proudly as Korean who can trace their ancestry back 17 generations, NOT as a bigot on either the Communist's side or as a extreme right-wing American (dare I assume as you may be?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Pseudo-Korea-file Koehler,</p>
<p>You clearly misinterpret my protestations as Communist rants.  Please withdraw your insulting insinuations.  I speak proudly as Korean who can trace their ancestry back 17 generations, NOT as a bigot on either the Communist&#8217;s side or as a extreme right-wing American (dare I assume as you may be?).</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Koehler</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50508</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Koehler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 08:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50508</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Ok - will someone please explain to me how it is that the American Military are allowed such privileges? The land that they occupy in Seoul is prime realestate yet to my understanding the US government doesn’t pay the Korean government a single cent for occupying this space.

I am apalled at the way some of these GIs speak to the local people and in the Confucian mindset of Koreans, to speak to an elder in this fashion is particularly unacceptable. They live seemingly free in Korea; the least these invaders could do is respect the culture.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I'm sorry, I think you're looking for the KCNA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Ok - will someone please explain to me how it is that the American Military are allowed such privileges? The land that they occupy in Seoul is prime realestate yet to my understanding the US government doesn’t pay the Korean government a single cent for occupying this space.</p>
<p>I am apalled at the way some of these GIs speak to the local people and in the Confucian mindset of Koreans, to speak to an elder in this fashion is particularly unacceptable. They live seemingly free in Korea; the least these invaders could do is respect the culture.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, I think you&#8217;re looking for the KCNA.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwangsan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50495</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwangsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50495</guid>
		<description>Ok - will someone please explain to me how it is that the American Military are allowed such privileges?  The land that they occupy in Seoul is prime realestate yet to my understanding the US government doesn't pay the Korean government a single cent for occupying this space.

I am apalled at the way some of these GIs speak to the local people and in the Confucian mindset of Koreans, to speak to an elder in this fashion is particularly unacceptable.  They live seemingly free in Korea; the least these invaders could do is respect the culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok - will someone please explain to me how it is that the American Military are allowed such privileges?  The land that they occupy in Seoul is prime realestate yet to my understanding the US government doesn&#8217;t pay the Korean government a single cent for occupying this space.</p>
<p>I am apalled at the way some of these GIs speak to the local people and in the Confucian mindset of Koreans, to speak to an elder in this fashion is particularly unacceptable.  They live seemingly free in Korea; the least these invaders could do is respect the culture.</p>
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		<title>By: AFCHIEF</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50028</link>
		<dc:creator>AFCHIEF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/18/lisa-vershbow-call-me/#comment-50028</guid>
		<description>Actually, some of the military personnel assigned to JUSMAG-K on Yongsan Army 
Garrison also are issued the "embassy vehicle tags" and, as I understand it also enjoy diplomatic status and live in the Embassy housing area on Yongsan Army Garrision.   I'm not sure the reference about the Embassy, "the residence etc are US territory" posted earlier is correct.
I guess the answer lies in the definition of territory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, some of the military personnel assigned to JUSMAG-K on Yongsan Army<br />
Garrison also are issued the &#8220;embassy vehicle tags&#8221; and, as I understand it also enjoy diplomatic status and live in the Embassy housing area on Yongsan Army Garrision.   I&#8217;m not sure the reference about the Embassy, &#8220;the residence etc are US territory&#8221; posted earlier is correct.<br />
I guess the answer lies in the definition of territory.</p>
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