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	<title>Comments on: Those thankless Americans and evil neocons: DJ</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: North Korean nuke crap, cynically written at The Marmot&#8217;s Hole</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-51276</link>
		<dc:creator>North Korean nuke crap, cynically written at The Marmot&#8217;s Hole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-51276</guid>
		<description>[...] Perhaps more interesting was the discussion he had with ex-presidents Chun Doo-hwan, Kim Young-sam and Kim Dae-jung. Or the discussions said three presidents had between themselves. The two Kims, in particular, apparently ripped into each other&#8212;Kim YS called on Roh not only to officially declare the Sunshine Policy dead and buried and terminate several intra-Korean projects (Kaesong, Kumgangsan, etc.), but also to publicly apologize to the people for pursuing the policy. Kim DJ, of course, defended his baby, saying it had developed intra-Korean relations as it was supposed to and produced results. The lack of progress, said the Nobel Peace Prize winner, was due to poor relations between Pyongyang and Washington (to get a feel for DJ&#8217;s view of the world, click here). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Perhaps more interesting was the discussion he had with ex-presidents Chun Doo-hwan, Kim Young-sam and Kim Dae-jung. Or the discussions said three presidents had between themselves. The two Kims, in particular, apparently ripped into each other&#8212;Kim YS called on Roh not only to officially declare the Sunshine Policy dead and buried and terminate several intra-Korean projects (Kaesong, Kumgangsan, etc.), but also to publicly apologize to the people for pursuing the policy. Kim DJ, of course, defended his baby, saying it had developed intra-Korean relations as it was supposed to and produced results. The lack of progress, said the Nobel Peace Prize winner, was due to poor relations between Pyongyang and Washington (to get a feel for DJ&#8217;s view of the world, click here). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: montclaire</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49463</link>
		<dc:creator>montclaire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Sep 2006 01:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49463</guid>
		<description>Changguang - In general the communists were not steadfast fighters against the Japanese. In the early 1930s every Korean communist intellectual without exception signed a declaration renouncing communism and pledging support for the emperor, and many became very prolific propagandists for Hiro. Some of these collaborators (eg Song Yeong) scampered so fast up to Pyongyang precisely because they were being run out of Seoul. The Chondogyo followers, the Christians, the nationalists did not have sterling histories of resistance either, but taken as a group their record is better than that of the commies - presuming, of course, that there were any real communists in the true sense of the term during the colonial period (which Scalapino and Lankov both doubt).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Changguang - In general the communists were not steadfast fighters against the Japanese. In the early 1930s every Korean communist intellectual without exception signed a declaration renouncing communism and pledging support for the emperor, and many became very prolific propagandists for Hiro. Some of these collaborators (eg Song Yeong) scampered so fast up to Pyongyang precisely because they were being run out of Seoul. The Chondogyo followers, the Christians, the nationalists did not have sterling histories of resistance either, but taken as a group their record is better than that of the commies - presuming, of course, that there were any real communists in the true sense of the term during the colonial period (which Scalapino and Lankov both doubt).</p>
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		<title>By: tmc1233</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49459</link>
		<dc:creator>tmc1233</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Sep 2006 01:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49459</guid>
		<description>What else would you expect from an admitted 'former' communist, who many in Gyeonsang-do would suggest is an agent of the North?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What else would you expect from an admitted &#8216;former&#8217; communist, who many in Gyeonsang-do would suggest is an agent of the North?</p>
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		<title>By: slim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49457</link>
		<dc:creator>slim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 21:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49457</guid>
		<description>Upon a quick read, Henry CK Liu appears to be one of those "scholars" who can't address the question of how the Korean war began.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Upon a quick read, Henry CK Liu appears to be one of those &#8220;scholars&#8221; who can&#8217;t address the question of how the Korean war began.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49456</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 20:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49456</guid>
		<description>...And Hanchongnyon, and some of the whackier unions, and some teachers, and various Uri Party types, and assorted professors...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;And Hanchongnyon, and some of the whackier unions, and some teachers, and various Uri Party types, and assorted professors&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: slim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49452</link>
		<dc:creator>slim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 20:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49452</guid>
		<description>As the Marmot himself said, logically speaking, the US can't be both in favor of destroying the North Korean regime and keeping North and South Korea divided and North Korea around as an ecuse to build Star Wars weapons. Unification implies one Korea left standing, and noone outside of the Kim JOng-il family (and maybe whacko Marxist capitalist Henry CK Liu) wants that to be the DPRK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the Marmot himself said, logically speaking, the US can&#8217;t be both in favor of destroying the North Korean regime and keeping North and South Korea divided and North Korea around as an ecuse to build Star Wars weapons. Unification implies one Korea left standing, and noone outside of the Kim JOng-il family (and maybe whacko Marxist capitalist Henry CK Liu) wants that to be the DPRK.</p>
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		<title>By: pawikirogi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49448</link>
		<dc:creator>pawikirogi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 19:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49448</guid>
		<description>i just wonder why marmot is always chnaging his format. now, the letters are so small. any way i can enlarge the print? 

moving on, there's an interesting article at the atimes.com by henry liu regarding us policy towards china and nk. liu says us policy is to prevent reunification of n and s korea. that's what i've been saying all along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i just wonder why marmot is always chnaging his format. now, the letters are so small. any way i can enlarge the print? </p>
<p>moving on, there&#8217;s an interesting article at the atimes.com by henry liu regarding us policy towards china and nk. liu says us policy is to prevent reunification of n and s korea. that&#8217;s what i&#8217;ve been saying all along.</p>
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		<title>By: changguang</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49442</link>
		<dc:creator>changguang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49442</guid>
		<description>Not too long ago, I had an interesting conversation with a fellow kyopo.  We both live in Northern California and describe ourselves as conservative.  So, by normal American standards, were probably a little left of center.

Anyway, we both agreed that the South Koreans keep appeasing the North because they're not willing to pay for confrontation.  Considering the situation they're in, they should be spending at least 6% of GDP on defense.  The last number I saw was something like 3%.  So, really the South should be kicking in another 20-30 billion USD into defense -- an amount that would certainly cut into the left's desire to build an anti-work, anti-initiative welfare system.  The leftist's aversion to accountability definitely extends to the individual.

Before we skewer Roh and DJ, let's consider history.  Chamberlain has his place in history because he agreed to the appeasement of Hitler.  What's forgotten is that he was the prime minister of a parliamentary democracy.  If he had confronted Hitler, the no-confidence vote would have been scheduled before he even got back to merry old England.  So while the current and last presidents struggle to control their oral diarrhea, the people who elected them are also responsible for this nonsense.  Kind of like how I have never voted for a Bush, but as an American, I am still somewhat responsible for the actions of my country.

My family is from Cholla and, yes, Baduk, my grandparents were communists.  My grandfather was a resistance fighter and the only people who sustained the fight against the Japanese for the duration of the colonization were the communists.  My grandparents were also yangban, so when the Norks came strolling down south, the family moved ahead of them.  Seems that the Norks had a reputation for beheading yangban, regardless of what you had actually done in your life.  Anyway, I have a fondness for DJ.  It seems to me that he's gone senile-- he's what, 80?  I would say that the memory centers and the connections between brain hemispheres are quickly degrading.

Thucydides documented several situations like this 2400 years ago.  The South is quickly becoming Melos, with China as Athens and the US as Sparta.  Without changing their path, Koreans 100 years from now could wake up and find themselves as Chinese slaves.  Koreans, culturally, are more similar to Chinese than the Tibetans are.  Remember that the PRC, at its founding, defined Tibetans as Chinese without bothering to ask them.  The tragedy is that Koreans have it within their power to stop this, but instead are focusing on the Americans who have no designs on Korean territory, independence or existence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not too long ago, I had an interesting conversation with a fellow kyopo.  We both live in Northern California and describe ourselves as conservative.  So, by normal American standards, were probably a little left of center.</p>
<p>Anyway, we both agreed that the South Koreans keep appeasing the North because they&#8217;re not willing to pay for confrontation.  Considering the situation they&#8217;re in, they should be spending at least 6% of GDP on defense.  The last number I saw was something like 3%.  So, really the South should be kicking in another 20-30 billion USD into defense &#8212; an amount that would certainly cut into the left&#8217;s desire to build an anti-work, anti-initiative welfare system.  The leftist&#8217;s aversion to accountability definitely extends to the individual.</p>
<p>Before we skewer Roh and DJ, let&#8217;s consider history.  Chamberlain has his place in history because he agreed to the appeasement of Hitler.  What&#8217;s forgotten is that he was the prime minister of a parliamentary democracy.  If he had confronted Hitler, the no-confidence vote would have been scheduled before he even got back to merry old England.  So while the current and last presidents struggle to control their oral diarrhea, the people who elected them are also responsible for this nonsense.  Kind of like how I have never voted for a Bush, but as an American, I am still somewhat responsible for the actions of my country.</p>
<p>My family is from Cholla and, yes, Baduk, my grandparents were communists.  My grandfather was a resistance fighter and the only people who sustained the fight against the Japanese for the duration of the colonization were the communists.  My grandparents were also yangban, so when the Norks came strolling down south, the family moved ahead of them.  Seems that the Norks had a reputation for beheading yangban, regardless of what you had actually done in your life.  Anyway, I have a fondness for DJ.  It seems to me that he&#8217;s gone senile&#8211; he&#8217;s what, 80?  I would say that the memory centers and the connections between brain hemispheres are quickly degrading.</p>
<p>Thucydides documented several situations like this 2400 years ago.  The South is quickly becoming Melos, with China as Athens and the US as Sparta.  Without changing their path, Koreans 100 years from now could wake up and find themselves as Chinese slaves.  Koreans, culturally, are more similar to Chinese than the Tibetans are.  Remember that the PRC, at its founding, defined Tibetans as Chinese without bothering to ask them.  The tragedy is that Koreans have it within their power to stop this, but instead are focusing on the Americans who have no designs on Korean territory, independence or existence.</p>
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		<title>By: slim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49418</link>
		<dc:creator>slim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49418</guid>
		<description>DJ is on a relatively shortlist of people (Arafat, any others?) who have defrauded the Nobel Peace Prize committee.

Kim Dae-jung: Our Nobel fraud, our pride!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DJ is on a relatively shortlist of people (Arafat, any others?) who have defrauded the Nobel Peace Prize committee.</p>
<p>Kim Dae-jung: Our Nobel fraud, our pride!</p>
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		<title>By: bulgasari</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49409</link>
		<dc:creator>bulgasari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/14/those-thankless-americans-and-evil-neocons-dj/#comment-49409</guid>
		<description>Won Joon Choe:

Ah, you meant that KDJ criticized the summit that saved his life - I'd agree that that's pretty low.  

William Gleysteen also wrote about the deal (in fact, &lt;a href="http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8292/gleysteenal8.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;here is a pertinant page&lt;/a&gt; from his book, for the curious). Gleysteen criticized the speed with which Reagan 'uncritically embraced' him, as it 'tarnished the image of the US in Korea', but otherwise had been involved in the earliest stages of the attempt to save KDJ's life and thought the deal a good one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Won Joon Choe:</p>
<p>Ah, you meant that KDJ criticized the summit that saved his life - I&#8217;d agree that that&#8217;s pretty low.  </p>
<p>William Gleysteen also wrote about the deal (in fact, <a href="http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8292/gleysteenal8.jpg" rel="nofollow">here is a pertinant page</a> from his book, for the curious). Gleysteen criticized the speed with which Reagan &#8216;uncritically embraced&#8217; him, as it &#8216;tarnished the image of the US in Korea&#8217;, but otherwise had been involved in the earliest stages of the attempt to save KDJ&#8217;s life and thought the deal a good one.</p>
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