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	<title>Comments on: Foreigner graves to be disinterred: MUST READ!!!</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri,  4 Jul 2008 22:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Showdown of Yanghwajin Foreigner Cemetery at ROK Drop</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-94734</link>
		<dc:creator>The Showdown of Yanghwajin Foreigner Cemetery at ROK Drop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 10:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-94734</guid>
		<description>[...] Memorial Church wanted to get rid of the foreigner composed Union Church; because they planned to disinter the bodies of foreigners in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Memorial Church wanted to get rid of the foreigner composed Union Church; because they planned to disinter the bodies of foreigners in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-49026</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2006 02:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-49026</guid>
		<description>Don't do it, Korea.  Not unless you want to see a lot of the cute little happy mounds in Gyeonggi-bukbu accidentally leveled by a pivot steer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t do it, Korea.  Not unless you want to see a lot of the cute little happy mounds in Gyeonggi-bukbu accidentally leveled by a pivot steer.</p>
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		<title>By: Yeoletoaste</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-49017</link>
		<dc:creator>Yeoletoaste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2006 01:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-49017</guid>
		<description>The reasoning behind moving them is obviously so their formaldehyde soaked corpses don't rise up and steal their women while terrorizing the city with violence and drugs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reasoning behind moving them is obviously so their formaldehyde soaked corpses don&#8217;t rise up and steal their women while terrorizing the city with violence and drugs.</p>
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		<title>By: dogbertt</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-49009</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbertt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-49009</guid>
		<description>At least he's crediting the Bible now when he quotes it.

It's a step up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least he&#8217;s crediting the Bible now when he quotes it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a step up.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-49002</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Sep 2006 23:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-49002</guid>
		<description>Bluejeeves does seem to be softening up a bit these days.  Will he come in from the cold of trolldom?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bluejeeves does seem to be softening up a bit these days.  Will he come in from the cold of trolldom?</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-48994</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-48994</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reply, Robert (Neff).  Yeah, Bluejives, I never thought I'd see the day when you'd be arguing with someone here on the topic of...theology!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply, Robert (Neff).  Yeah, Bluejives, I never thought I&#8217;d see the day when you&#8217;d be arguing with someone here on the topic of&#8230;theology!</p>
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		<title>By: bluejives</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-48973</link>
		<dc:creator>bluejives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Sep 2006 07:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-48973</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Wow, this has turned into a very interesting discussion. Bluejives&lt;/i&gt;

My sister was a student at a theological seminary. I read her old textbooks when I'm bored. I'm also learning Hebrew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Wow, this has turned into a very interesting discussion. Bluejives</i></p>
<p>My sister was a student at a theological seminary. I read her old textbooks when I&#8217;m bored. I&#8217;m also learning Hebrew.</p>
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		<title>By: robert neff</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-48946</link>
		<dc:creator>robert neff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 21:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-48946</guid>
		<description>First of all - I would like to thank the Marmot for posting this.  Marmot and I got together nearly a month ago to look over some of the documents and information that I have and we reviewed options.  Considering the nature of the material and the chances of running into some serious trouble i.e., libel laws, we were relunctant to post the material on this blog for legal reasons.

Sewing - if I might address some of your questions.  There are a couple of foreigners cemeteries in Korea.  Obviously there is the large one at Pusan which, to my understanding, will not accept the remains unless you were actually in combat in Korea during the Korean War.  There is the Incheon (Chemulpo) Cemetery - small - and it has been moved at least once already - to be honest I think twice.  It is very historical and has older graves than the one at Yanghwajin - but again - it was moved and is almost never visited by anyone.  The only exception would be the Italian Embassy - every month they visit their graves and Yanghwajin and Incheon and lay flowers as rememberance.  The Italian Embassy also repaired their stones and enclosure at Incheon earlier this year.  Many of the smaller cemeteries throughout Korea (many had no names and were unknown - even Donald Clark's book does not list some of them) have since fallen due to development.  Many of the Western remains from those cemeteries were moved to Yanghwajin in 2000-2002.  What is surprising is that a large number of them were Scandanavian and were members of the Salvation Army.

As to the history of the church?  Not sure which church we are talking about.  There are two churches at the site - one is the Hundred Anniversary Church which now claims that they own the cemetery (questions beg to be answered but will not get into that here - perhaps if the Herald agrees we can do it in another article), and the historic Seoul Union Church (if Marmot would like - I could do another article for the Marmot on the SU Church history).

The remains of the Western Catholics are scattered throughout Korea - some are buried at Chuldusan - which is right next to the Yanghwajin Foreigners' Cemetery - and they are very well protected and honored.  There are (I need to check this - but it is 6 in the morning) I believe some buried at Myoungdong's Cathedral - I believe Turner - but I don't remember so well in the morning.

I think one thing that does need to be addressed is the systematic removal of the true name of this cemetery (which has had this name for about 114 years).  The cemetery has always been known as the Foreigners' Cemetery (sometimes Seoul's and other times Yanghwajin).  Recently there has been a move to call it the Missionaries' Cemetery, although now I understand they have backed away from that and are calling it the Foreign Missionaries' Cemetery.  What needs to be remembered is the Mapu Government has not authorized this change - which brings even more questions to the ownership of this land.  If it is truly owned by the church then why should Mapu Government have a say in its naming?  Too many issues (legal) to even try and address that here - I can merely say that hopefully Korea Herald will be willing to pursue the next level of this investigation.

It might help if some of Marmot's Hole readers voice their own feelings of outrage, approval, or disapproval on this blog and also to the newspapers - Herald and the others.

It is a shame that so many of the embassies (14/16) did not know that they had countrymen buried at the cemetery.  There are soldiers and their families (not just American - but British, Russian and American) several diplomats, businessmen from all walks, people who fought for Korea's early independence (1919), and unfortunately - some rogues.  It is truly as Don Clark stated - a walk through Korea's past.  It is in danger now because no one cared in the recent past - hopefully it can be saved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all - I would like to thank the Marmot for posting this.  Marmot and I got together nearly a month ago to look over some of the documents and information that I have and we reviewed options.  Considering the nature of the material and the chances of running into some serious trouble i.e., libel laws, we were relunctant to post the material on this blog for legal reasons.</p>
<p>Sewing - if I might address some of your questions.  There are a couple of foreigners cemeteries in Korea.  Obviously there is the large one at Pusan which, to my understanding, will not accept the remains unless you were actually in combat in Korea during the Korean War.  There is the Incheon (Chemulpo) Cemetery - small - and it has been moved at least once already - to be honest I think twice.  It is very historical and has older graves than the one at Yanghwajin - but again - it was moved and is almost never visited by anyone.  The only exception would be the Italian Embassy - every month they visit their graves and Yanghwajin and Incheon and lay flowers as rememberance.  The Italian Embassy also repaired their stones and enclosure at Incheon earlier this year.  Many of the smaller cemeteries throughout Korea (many had no names and were unknown - even Donald Clark&#8217;s book does not list some of them) have since fallen due to development.  Many of the Western remains from those cemeteries were moved to Yanghwajin in 2000-2002.  What is surprising is that a large number of them were Scandanavian and were members of the Salvation Army.</p>
<p>As to the history of the church?  Not sure which church we are talking about.  There are two churches at the site - one is the Hundred Anniversary Church which now claims that they own the cemetery (questions beg to be answered but will not get into that here - perhaps if the Herald agrees we can do it in another article), and the historic Seoul Union Church (if Marmot would like - I could do another article for the Marmot on the SU Church history).</p>
<p>The remains of the Western Catholics are scattered throughout Korea - some are buried at Chuldusan - which is right next to the Yanghwajin Foreigners&#8217; Cemetery - and they are very well protected and honored.  There are (I need to check this - but it is 6 in the morning) I believe some buried at Myoungdong&#8217;s Cathedral - I believe Turner - but I don&#8217;t remember so well in the morning.</p>
<p>I think one thing that does need to be addressed is the systematic removal of the true name of this cemetery (which has had this name for about 114 years).  The cemetery has always been known as the Foreigners&#8217; Cemetery (sometimes Seoul&#8217;s and other times Yanghwajin).  Recently there has been a move to call it the Missionaries&#8217; Cemetery, although now I understand they have backed away from that and are calling it the Foreign Missionaries&#8217; Cemetery.  What needs to be remembered is the Mapu Government has not authorized this change - which brings even more questions to the ownership of this land.  If it is truly owned by the church then why should Mapu Government have a say in its naming?  Too many issues (legal) to even try and address that here - I can merely say that hopefully Korea Herald will be willing to pursue the next level of this investigation.</p>
<p>It might help if some of Marmot&#8217;s Hole readers voice their own feelings of outrage, approval, or disapproval on this blog and also to the newspapers - Herald and the others.</p>
<p>It is a shame that so many of the embassies (14/16) did not know that they had countrymen buried at the cemetery.  There are soldiers and their families (not just American - but British, Russian and American) several diplomats, businessmen from all walks, people who fought for Korea&#8217;s early independence (1919), and unfortunately - some rogues.  It is truly as Don Clark stated - a walk through Korea&#8217;s past.  It is in danger now because no one cared in the recent past - hopefully it can be saved.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonath</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-48938</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-48938</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;or possibly even worse, having the grave markers removed and the ground put to other use.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Geez.  Haven't the curators of that graveyard seen enough scholck 80's horror films to know what a hideously-bad idea that is?  THEY MOVED THE HEADSTONES, BUT THEY DIDN'T MOVE THE GRAVES!!

Ahem.  Anyhow, while I've simply never &lt;i&gt;gotten&lt;/i&gt; the whole 'fetishizing the dead' thing, I do think it's a bit of a shame that the church isn't a bit more committed to living up to the expectations of the people who chose to be interred in their graveyard, no matter what those peoples' social status.  All I know is that when I go, I wanna be burned up and have my ashes ground into as fine a powder as is possible before I'm scattered to the winds.  I want people to &lt;i&gt;inhale&lt;/i&gt; me.  :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>or possibly even worse, having the grave markers removed and the ground put to other use.</p></blockquote>
<p>Geez.  Haven&#8217;t the curators of that graveyard seen enough scholck 80&#8217;s horror films to know what a hideously-bad idea that is?  THEY MOVED THE HEADSTONES, BUT THEY DIDN&#8217;T MOVE THE GRAVES!!</p>
<p>Ahem.  Anyhow, while I&#8217;ve simply never <i>gotten</i> the whole &#8216;fetishizing the dead&#8217; thing, I do think it&#8217;s a bit of a shame that the church isn&#8217;t a bit more committed to living up to the expectations of the people who chose to be interred in their graveyard, no matter what those peoples&#8217; social status.  All I know is that when I go, I wanna be burned up and have my ashes ground into as fine a powder as is possible before I&#8217;m scattered to the winds.  I want people to <i>inhale</i> me.  <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-48932</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 18:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/09/foreigner-graves-to-be-disinterred-must-read/#comment-48932</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Can a Christian explain to me the Christian fuss about human remains...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah.  It's so simple I can't believe that no one got it yet.  It's a big deal for Christians because it's some thing they only do once.  Contrast that with Buddhists who can be born and die thousands of times, death isn't so special anymore.  I think that economists refer to it as "diminishing marginal returns".  

As a child a piece of candy is wonderful.  Immediately follow that with another piece of candy and it's still pretty good.  At about the fifth piece the child starts to get a sugar rush and starts shaking.  At about the 30th piece the child will start to get sick.  It's the same with death and dying.  After a couple hundred times the whole process must get mind numbingly tedious.  

And from reliable sources, the only way to stop this endless cycle is to make Andie MacDowell fall in love with you.  So the chances for me are pretty slim, since I can't do ice sculpture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Can a Christian explain to me the Christian fuss about human remains&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah.  It&#8217;s so simple I can&#8217;t believe that no one got it yet.  It&#8217;s a big deal for Christians because it&#8217;s some thing they only do once.  Contrast that with Buddhists who can be born and die thousands of times, death isn&#8217;t so special anymore.  I think that economists refer to it as &#8220;diminishing marginal returns&#8221;.  </p>
<p>As a child a piece of candy is wonderful.  Immediately follow that with another piece of candy and it&#8217;s still pretty good.  At about the fifth piece the child starts to get a sugar rush and starts shaking.  At about the 30th piece the child will start to get sick.  It&#8217;s the same with death and dying.  After a couple hundred times the whole process must get mind numbingly tedious.  </p>
<p>And from reliable sources, the only way to stop this endless cycle is to make Andie MacDowell fall in love with you.  So the chances for me are pretty slim, since I can&#8217;t do ice sculpture.</p>
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