Comments on: Tens of Thousands Turn Out for Conservative Rally in Seoul http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/ Korea... in Blog Format Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:44:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: snow http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48605 snow Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:51:52 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48605 Sugar Shin, if I were Korean, I would first of all be thinking about how stupid it is to kick out the gift horse aka the US military keeping everything stable in the region. But if it were looking like the US was actually going to leave, then I would go for nukes, as I would expect Japan to do the same. If I were Japanese, I'd be pushing for rebuilding a strong military, as I would be if I were Korean. Unfortunately, Roh and other leftists seem to lean the other way-throw out the US, reducing the military deterrent and still push to reduce the size of the ROK. I'm hoping that the reductions in manpower are being replaced with serious investment in firepower. From a security standpoint, it just seems stupid to want the US military out. Sugar Shin, if I were Korean, I would first of all be thinking about how stupid it is to kick out the gift horse aka the US military keeping everything stable in the region. But if it were looking like the US was actually going to leave, then I would go for nukes, as I would expect Japan to do the same. If I were Japanese, I’d be pushing for rebuilding a strong military, as I would be if I were Korean. Unfortunately, Roh and other leftists seem to lean the other way-throw out the US, reducing the military deterrent and still push to reduce the size of the ROK. I’m hoping that the reductions in manpower are being replaced with serious investment in firepower. From a security standpoint, it just seems stupid to want the US military out.

]]> By: R. Elgin http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48584 R. Elgin Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:44:44 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48584 I must agree with "SS" in that the only thing that will make China back up off of South Korea are nukes. There is no other option other than the capitulation of Korea to China and that is a very real possibility. "No Mu Han" has only done one thing I consider good and that is he has just paved the way for direct flights from Inchon to Athens, Greece. No more Frankfurt and their bad air! I must agree with “SS” in that the only thing that will make China back up off of South Korea are nukes. There is no other option other than the capitulation of Korea to China and that is a very real possibility.

“No Mu Han” has only done one thing I consider good and that is he has just paved the way for direct flights from Inchon to Athens, Greece. No more Frankfurt and their bad air!

]]> By: michael http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48566 michael Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:56:59 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48566 This is just anecdotal, but over the years in Korea I've noticed that the older people I talk to usually have a very level assessment of Korea's relationship with the U.S., don't exagerrate it one way or the other, and grasp its complexities, while the younger people (with some exceptions of course) expressed as Snow said "woefully misinformed opinions and stupid conspiracy theories." So maybe it was Koreans "believing their own bullshit" that got Roh elected, since mostly younger people voted for him, and I just hope his utter incompetence in almost every area has soured enough younger Koreans that they consider other options in the next election. This is just anecdotal, but over the years in Korea I’ve noticed that the older people I talk to usually have a very level assessment of Korea’s relationship with the U.S., don’t exagerrate it one way or the other, and grasp its complexities, while the younger people (with some exceptions of course) expressed as Snow said “woefully misinformed opinions and stupid conspiracy theories.” So maybe it was Koreans “believing their own bullshit” that got Roh elected, since mostly younger people voted for him, and I just hope his utter incompetence in almost every area has soured enough younger Koreans that they consider other options in the next election.

]]> By: dogbertt http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48565 dogbertt Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:37:44 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48565 You just don't give your kids matches, even if other, irresponsible neighbor kids have them. You just don’t give your kids matches, even if other, irresponsible neighbor kids have them.

]]> By: Sugar Shin http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48564 Sugar Shin Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:31:52 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48564 South Korea has to pay more for their defense.Unrelated to the fact if the USFK leaves or stays. Get rid of the missile range restrictions and some handy nukes.Don't pay attention to Japan's, DPRK's and China's outcry: Screw them all together. There'll be no safe strategic future for the ROK without nuclear strike capability, be it and-based or submarine-based. The neutral Swiss model doesn't match the tensed strategic situation in NE Asia. I'd say, go for the Israeli model. High tech weaponry with offensive options. If the US leaves Korea, all options are there to buy military stuff from various suppliers. Not bound to technical inter-operability with the US military or consideration of economic interests of the US. Buy European, buy Russian or whatever: - missiles with nuclear payloads reaching important parts of China, Japan and all of North Korea - SSK or SSN with nuclear missiles - re-fuelling planes for F-16s and F-15s - AWACS-planes - KDX III Aegis-destroyers - Attack helicopters - PAC3-missiles No matter how much it'll cost. Korea has to pay a huge amount of money to secure its future. So, they should spend it wisely. If Iran and North Korea can fuck around with the US and get their nuclear stuff, why should a democratic country and economic power like South Korea restrict itsself? Korea should climb up to the same level like European powers (e.g. France, UK) or Israel. South Korea has to pay more for their defense.Unrelated to the fact if the USFK leaves or stays. Get rid of the missile range restrictions and some handy nukes.Don’t pay attention to Japan’s, DPRK’s and China’s outcry: Screw them all together. There’ll be no safe strategic future for the ROK without nuclear strike capability, be it and-based or submarine-based. The neutral Swiss model doesn’t match the tensed strategic situation in NE Asia. I’d say, go for the Israeli model. High tech weaponry with offensive options. If the US leaves Korea, all options are there to buy military stuff from various suppliers. Not bound to technical inter-operability with the US military or consideration of economic interests of the US. Buy European, buy Russian or whatever:

- missiles with nuclear payloads reaching important parts of China, Japan and all of North Korea

- SSK or SSN with nuclear missiles

- re-fuelling planes for F-16s and F-15s

- AWACS-planes

- KDX III Aegis-destroyers

- Attack helicopters

- PAC3-missiles

No matter how much it’ll cost. Korea has to pay a huge amount of money to secure its future. So, they should spend it wisely. If Iran and North Korea can fuck around with the US and get their nuclear stuff, why should a democratic country and economic power like South Korea restrict itsself? Korea should climb up to the same level like European powers (e.g. France, UK) or Israel.

]]> By: usinkorea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48542 usinkorea Wed, 06 Sep 2006 02:49:49 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48542 Oh, I forgot - the difference between myself and exseoulman is that I didn't leave Korea in disgust with the nation overall. I spent a lot of myself for a couple of years after learning about its history, and I enjoy going back when I can, and I still enjoy studying the history. I also found enough to make staying there worthwhile even though I worked in hakwons - and that took a lot of doing.... Oh, I forgot - the difference between myself and exseoulman is that I didn’t leave Korea in disgust with the nation overall. I spent a lot of myself for a couple of years after learning about its history, and I enjoy going back when I can, and I still enjoy studying the history. I also found enough to make staying there worthwhile even though I worked in hakwons - and that took a lot of doing….

]]> By: usinkorea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48541 usinkorea Wed, 06 Sep 2006 02:46:55 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48541 I just wanted to point out exseoulman is not me under a different persona...contrary to any indication of near complete agreement we might have. I've been saying for years counting heads at demonstrations is a piss poor way to judge the overall nature of South Korean society's view of the US-SK relationship. Nothing going on today is different from what I've been describing as the anti-US process in Korea for a few years now too. There is a segment of the society that truly values the alliance and puts things into perspective, but it is a small segment made up mostly of the older generations. The bulk of the people coming out in favor of dropping war time control, however, are the same ones who enjoyed disliking the "unequal" relationship for years and periodically joining hands with the more radical activists when the environment seemed good for a venting. Korea has always had a habit of pulling its punches when it either believed the allaince was in real danger - or - the foreign media started paying any significant attention to anti-US thought in the society. A necessary evil is necessary but deemed evil nonetheless.... I just wanted to point out exseoulman is not me under a different persona…contrary to any indication of near complete agreement we might have.

I’ve been saying for years counting heads at demonstrations is a piss poor way to judge the overall nature of South Korean society’s view of the US-SK relationship.

Nothing going on today is different from what I’ve been describing as the anti-US process in Korea for a few years now too. There is a segment of the society that truly values the alliance and puts things into perspective, but it is a small segment made up mostly of the older generations.

The bulk of the people coming out in favor of dropping war time control, however, are the same ones who enjoyed disliking the “unequal” relationship for years and periodically joining hands with the more radical activists when the environment seemed good for a venting.

Korea has always had a habit of pulling its punches when it either believed the allaince was in real danger - or - the foreign media started paying any significant attention to anti-US thought in the society.

A necessary evil is necessary but deemed evil nonetheless….

]]> By: snow http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48539 snow Wed, 06 Sep 2006 02:27:54 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48539 If the US ever left (depending on how much influence the US retained in SK), I think this region would turn completely nuke in very short order. If the US ever left (depending on how much influence the US retained in SK), I think this region would turn completely nuke in very short order.

]]> By: cm http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48537 cm Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:57:14 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48537 Sewing, I don't think Koreans nor the Americans wanted the status quo, so yeah I kinda agree with the notion that the US was going to draw down in Korea anyway, no matter what government was in power. Roh, (despite the fact that I don't like the man) just sped up the time table. South Korea now needs to get past this debate, accept the fact that the leaving of the USFK is a byfor gone conclusion, and ask the question, "where do we go from here, and what can we do to strenghthen our national defense". It just as might as well be. South Korea needs to think about not just North Korea in the short term, but also China in the long term. Whether that be revamping the ROK military or actively researching and deploying counter nuclear missile capability, South Korea cannot anymore rely upon the United States to come to the aid when a political or military crisis engulfs the peninsula. It will be up to South Korea to take care of itself. To do that, ROK must start thinking out of the box, to ensure its survival and prosperity - ala neutral European models like Switzerland. Sewing, I don’t think Koreans nor the Americans wanted the status quo, so yeah I kinda agree with the notion that the US was going to draw down in Korea anyway, no matter what government was in power. Roh, (despite the fact that I don’t like the man) just sped up the time table.

South Korea now needs to get past this debate, accept the fact that the leaving of the USFK is a byfor gone conclusion, and ask the question, “where do we go from here, and what can we do to strenghthen our national defense”.

It just as might as well be.
South Korea needs to think about not just North Korea in the short term, but also China in the long term. Whether that be revamping the ROK military or actively researching and deploying counter nuclear missile capability, South Korea cannot anymore rely upon the United States to come to the aid when a political or military crisis engulfs the peninsula. It will be up to South Korea to take care of itself. To do that, ROK must start thinking out of the box, to ensure its survival and prosperity - ala neutral European models like Switzerland.

]]> By: baduk http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48535 baduk Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:47:52 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/06/tens-of-thousands-turn-out-for-conservative-rally-in-seoul/#comment-48535 exseoulman, I feel sorry about all the events that you have gone through in Korea that made you bitter and angry. I know how some Koreans can be obtuse, backwarded and manipulative. Yet, I do think you are forgetting some good experiences that you had in Korea and concentrating only on negative ones. In foreign countries, one faces both kinds of experience. I hope someday you will look back at Korea and remember some good and interesting times. I hope you do because in reality there are equal number of good and bad Koreans. I hope you do not hate all Koreans. exseoulman,

I feel sorry about all the events that you have gone through in Korea that made you bitter and angry. I know how some Koreans can be obtuse, backwarded and manipulative.

Yet, I do think you are forgetting some good experiences that you had in Korea and concentrating only on negative ones. In foreign countries, one faces both kinds of experience.

I hope someday you will look back at Korea and remember some good and interesting times. I hope you do because in reality there are equal number of good and bad Koreans. I hope you do not hate all Koreans.

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