Comments on: Katie Goes to North Korea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/ Korea... in Blog Format Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:05:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: michael http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48558 michael Wed, 06 Sep 2006 08:22:51 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48558 China fully intends to absorb N.K. and maybe S.K. while they're at it: http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200609/200609050028.html But in the upside-down world of Korean "leftists" it's the U.S. that Korea must push away.... China fully intends to absorb N.K. and maybe S.K. while they’re at it:
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....50028.html

But in the upside-down world of Korean “leftists” it’s the U.S. that Korea must push away….

]]> By: snow http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48536 snow Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:52:47 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48536 "One day when I’m 80 and the country is a liberal democracy" I'm not sure we can count on that happening, Sewing. I think it's also possible that the Chinese might make their move on the North to prevent reunification and to keep the North as a puppet buffer state. Especially if the South ditches the US as an ally and tries to cozy up to China. Then China will feel it has a relatively free hand to do what it wants, despite South Korean objections. “One day when I’m 80 and the country is a liberal democracy”

I’m not sure we can count on that happening, Sewing. I think it’s also possible that the Chinese might make their move on the North to prevent reunification and to keep the North as a puppet buffer state. Especially if the South ditches the US as an ally and tries to cozy up to China. Then China will feel it has a relatively free hand to do what it wants, despite South Korean objections.

]]> By: sewing http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48507 sewing Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:01:42 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48507 I mean, not directly confront a complete stranger online about it. If I personally knew someone who was planning to go there, I'd probably try to dissuade him/her from going. Whoops, multiple comments again.... I mean, not directly confront a complete stranger online about it. If I personally knew someone who was planning to go there, I’d probably try to dissuade him/her from going.

Whoops, multiple comments again….

]]> By: sewing http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48506 sewing Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:56:19 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48506 Ghola (#12): You mean posting multiple successive comments to get to a point? Heh heh, yep, looks like you've succumbed! Was great for my stats when the Marmot was posting a list of top commenters, though! ;) Personally, I have no intention of travelling to NK either while the status quo remains up there. One day when I'm 80 and the country is a liberal democracy and I can feel comfortable going there, it'll make the journey that much more special anyhow. ...But I'm not going to directly confront someone over it—at least not if their trip isn't an exercise in apologetics—and at least Ms. Leitch seems to have thought the whole issue through and weighed the ethical pros and cons before deciding to travel there (comment #6). Ghola (#12): You mean posting multiple successive comments to get to a point? Heh heh, yep, looks like you’ve succumbed! Was great for my stats when the Marmot was posting a list of top commenters, though! ;)

Personally, I have no intention of travelling to NK either while the status quo remains up there. One day when I’m 80 and the country is a liberal democracy and I can feel comfortable going there, it’ll make the journey that much more special anyhow. …But I’m not going to directly confront someone over it—at least not if their trip isn’t an exercise in apologetics—and at least Ms. Leitch seems to have thought the whole issue through and weighed the ethical pros and cons before deciding to travel there (comment #6).

]]> By: sanshinseon http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48494 sanshinseon Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:00:06 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48494 Katie Leitch, on your photo page you expressed curiosity about the myth behind that tourist-photo-posing thing of the Mountain-Spirit with two axes -- you can find a brief retelling of that story on my page <a href="http://san-shin.org/diamond2.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> -- my wife and i posed for the same stupid picture :-) Katie Leitch, on your photo page you expressed curiosity about the myth behind that tourist-photo-posing thing of the Mountain-Spirit with two axes — you can find a brief retelling of that story on my page here — my wife and i posed for the same stupid picture :-)

]]> By: sanshinseon http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48492 sanshinseon Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:55:54 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48492 Because visiting Burma would be mostly just as a tourist, for my own pleasure and pure interest, but my trip to North Korea would be as a scholar, part of my career -- supposedly, in the service of something of broader value. I've had the chance to visit Pyeongyang only, but turned it down because there's nothing there of value for my research. These judgments are pretty complex. For Burma there's the additional factor that the globally recognized leader of their democracy movement, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, who has my full respect, has specifically asked international tourists to not come to Burma as a way of putting pressure on the regime -- other dissidents and democracy leaders in other countries have said "please come to our country because it will help us to open up" -- there's no definitive statement really comparable regarding North Korea that i've heard of... The worst such dilemma I ever faced was going to China in January 1990 -- just seven months after the Tiananmen Massacre. I consulted with my friends and some activists on Chinese democracy before making my decision. I went -- to the southernmost provinces for nine weeks of backpacking -- and distributed some international press articles about the massacre to those local people who seemed trustworthy... I wouldn't try anything like that in North Korea. Because visiting Burma would be mostly just as a tourist, for my own pleasure and pure interest, but my trip to North Korea would be as a scholar, part of my career — supposedly, in the service of something of broader value. I’ve had the chance to visit Pyeongyang only, but turned it down because there’s nothing there of value for my research.

These judgments are pretty complex. For Burma there’s the additional factor that the globally recognized leader of their democracy movement, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, who has my full respect, has specifically asked international tourists to not come to Burma as a way of putting pressure on the regime — other dissidents and democracy leaders in other countries have said “please come to our country because it will help us to open up” — there’s no definitive statement really comparable regarding North Korea that i’ve heard of…

The worst such dilemma I ever faced was going to China in January 1990 — just seven months after the Tiananmen Massacre. I consulted with my friends and some activists on Chinese democracy before making my decision. I went — to the southernmost provinces for nine weeks of backpacking — and distributed some international press articles about the massacre to those local people who seemed trustworthy…

I wouldn’t try anything like that in North Korea.

]]> By: Corpy Carly http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48491 Corpy Carly Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:39:41 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48491 Sanshinseon, could you explain what would prevent you from visiting Burma but not North Korea? Sanshinseon, could you explain what would prevent you from visiting Burma but not North Korea?

]]> By: sanshinseon http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48487 sanshinseon Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:03:40 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48487 Yup, everybody has to make that kind of choice for themselves, for several nations besides North Korea too -- Burma, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan... even China, including for the 2008 Olympics i guess... Some tourists these days have announced that they decline to visit to the USA due to its behavior in the Middle East, you know... I have faced that kind of evaluation and decision several times. Everybody prioritizes their own values and reasons for these kinds of trips, and needn't feel defensive about it. I was even a tour-guide for a promotional trip for diplomats to Geumgang-san just after it first got going, felt OK with that. I've been trying for more than a decade to get into the DPRK for some serious research-hiking on a few of their mountains, haven't been granted a visa yet (due to my American citizenship); if they give me one, i'll go. But i have decided not to vacation in Burma, although it's almost the last major place in SE Asia i haven't been... Yup, everybody has to make that kind of choice for themselves, for several nations besides North Korea too — Burma, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan… even China, including for the 2008 Olympics i guess… Some tourists these days have announced that they decline to visit to the USA due to its behavior in the Middle East, you know…

I have faced that kind of evaluation and decision several times. Everybody prioritizes their own values and reasons for these kinds of trips, and needn’t feel defensive about it. I was even a tour-guide for a promotional trip for diplomats to Geumgang-san just after it first got going, felt OK with that. I’ve been trying for more than a decade to get into the DPRK for some serious research-hiking on a few of their mountains, haven’t been granted a visa yet (due to my American citizenship); if they give me one, i’ll go. But i have decided not to vacation in Burma, although it’s almost the last major place in SE Asia i haven’t been…

]]> By: GI Korea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48480 GI Korea Tue, 05 Sep 2006 08:29:11 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48480 Katie, I'm not condemning you for going to North Korea, I just said in my opinion even if I could go on the tour, because I can't because I'm US military, I would not because I don't want my money going to Kim Jong-il and the tour money is providing a source of revenue for the regime. If it wasn't these tours wouldn't be going on. The regime has been trying to get the contract changed from Hyundai Asan to Lotte because they think Lotte would pay them even more money. So if you want to go on the tour that's your choice, I'm just saying it is not for me. Katie, I’m not condemning you for going to North Korea, I just said in my opinion even if I could go on the tour, because I can’t because I’m US military, I would not because I don’t want my money going to Kim Jong-il and the tour money is providing a source of revenue for the regime.

If it wasn’t these tours wouldn’t be going on. The regime has been trying to get the contract changed from Hyundai Asan to Lotte because they think Lotte would pay them even more money.

So if you want to go on the tour that’s your choice, I’m just saying it is not for me.

]]> By: michael http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48470 michael Tue, 05 Sep 2006 06:22:17 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/09/04/katie-goes-to-north-korea/#comment-48470 Kinda catchy I admit.... Kinda catchy I admit….

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