Comments on: 그것 무슨 뜻 입니까?! or Play it again dongmu http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/ Korea... in Blog Format Sun, 6 Jul 2008 02:16:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Mark http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47826 Mark Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:36:42 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47826 'tis a Gardner original, I can assure you. ’tis a Gardner original, I can assure you.

]]> By: sewing http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47813 sewing Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:19:42 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47813 "Minifiction" is ingenious...has that one been used before? “Minifiction” is ingenious…has that one been used before?

]]> By: Mark http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47802 Mark Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:29:33 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47802 So can I pre-order this Newspeak dictionary from amazon.co.jp, or should I just obtain a copy from the Ministry of Unification (Minifiction)? So can I pre-order this Newspeak dictionary from amazon.co.jp, or should I just obtain a copy from the Ministry of Unification (Minifiction)?

]]> By: sewing http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47800 sewing Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:19:44 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47800 Ah, prescriptive grammar. Language by legal injunction! Indeed, part of the reason that the two varieties of Korean are so different now is probably due to pronouncements by scholars in the two countries. Had the language been allowed to evolve organically both before and after division, for instance, there probably wouldn't be such fundamental problems today as how to represent ㄴ/ㄹ/ㅇ or how to denote 된소리. (Of course, there'd still be differences in words whose definitions are ideologically coloured....) Ah, prescriptive grammar. Language by legal injunction!

Indeed, part of the reason that the two varieties of Korean are so different now is probably due to pronouncements by scholars in the two countries. Had the language been allowed to evolve organically both before and after division, for instance, there probably wouldn’t be such fundamental problems today as how to represent ㄴ/ㄹ/ㅇ or how to denote 된소리. (Of course, there’d still be differences in words whose definitions are ideologically coloured….)

]]> By: Lankov http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47712 Lankov Thu, 31 Aug 2006 03:04:52 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47712 Well, the project seems to be another anachronistic exercise in prescriptive grammar, sill quite popular in this part of the world. The pundits explaining the laymen how the should talk properly... But there will be a lot of fuss and some interesting examples of especially bizarre nationalist rhetoric are likely to be spotted by a connoisseur of such things. Well, the project seems to be another anachronistic exercise in prescriptive grammar, sill quite popular in this part of the world. The pundits explaining the laymen how the should talk properly… But there will be a lot of fuss and some interesting examples of especially bizarre nationalist rhetoric are likely to be spotted by a connoisseur of such things.

]]> By: michael http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47702 michael Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:17:04 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47702 Seems like N.K. is mostly in a linguistic time warp of Stalinist rhetoric, but there does seem to be some "Korean Korean" vocabulary left that isn't tainted like that. That dictionary has been talked about for years, so it might not appear anytime soon. Seems like N.K. is mostly in a linguistic time warp of Stalinist rhetoric, but there does seem to be some “Korean Korean” vocabulary left that isn’t tainted like that. That dictionary has been talked about for years, so it might not appear anytime soon.

]]> By: sewing http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47697 sewing Thu, 31 Aug 2006 01:29:29 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/31/%ea%b7%b8%ea%b2%83-%eb%ac%b4%ec%8a%a8-%eb%9c%bb-%ec%9e%85%eb%8b%88%ea%b9%8c-or-play-it-again-dongmu/#comment-47697 I've been trying to get my head around this idea ever since news of the dictionary project came out. It's apparently a joint project between scholars in the two countries. But there are such basic, basic problems: spelling for one. Some words that start with ㄴ or ㅇ in the South start with ㄹ in the North, for example. How are they going to alphabetize such words? Do they list the entries under their Southern spelling with a cross-reference from the Northern spelling, or vice versa? Whichever approach they choose, they're showing a bias towards one or another version of the language. That'd be fine in and of itself, but presumably one of these scholars' desires would be to exhibit no such preference. (Or the cynics among us could argue that the very attempting of such a project given the climate of the times suggests a pro-North point of view, but since I know nothing of the people involved in the project, I don't want to go down that speculative road....) Or will there be two versions, one for each country, with the appropriate linguistic preferences in each case? And how about basic concepts that we who don't live in communist dictatorships take for granted? Words like 자유, 민주주의, 권리 (freedom, democracy, rights)? How the heck will those words be defined in a way that's palatable to Northern party flacks? Basically, it's a great concept: a comprehensive dictionary of Korean as it's used in both countries. But the devil seems to be in the details of its execution. I’ve been trying to get my head around this idea ever since news of the dictionary project came out. It’s apparently a joint project between scholars in the two countries. But there are such basic, basic problems: spelling for one. Some words that start with ㄴ or ㅇ in the South start with ㄹ in the North, for example. How are they going to alphabetize such words? Do they list the entries under their Southern spelling with a cross-reference from the Northern spelling, or vice versa? Whichever approach they choose, they’re showing a bias towards one or another version of the language. That’d be fine in and of itself, but presumably one of these scholars’ desires would be to exhibit no such preference. (Or the cynics among us could argue that the very attempting of such a project given the climate of the times suggests a pro-North point of view, but since I know nothing of the people involved in the project, I don’t want to go down that speculative road….) Or will there be two versions, one for each country, with the appropriate linguistic preferences in each case? And how about basic concepts that we who don’t live in communist dictatorships take for granted? Words like 자유, 민주주의, 권리 (freedom, democracy, rights)? How the heck will those words be defined in a way that’s palatable to Northern party flacks?

Basically, it’s a great concept: a comprehensive dictionary of Korean as it’s used in both countries. But the devil seems to be in the details of its execution.

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