Comments on: MUST READ: North Korea’s South Korean makeover

By: gbnhj

gbnhj — Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:24:14 +0000

Agreed, Agadan. And, for citizens of any country, having the ‘if you like North Korea, go there’ argument being misconstrued as ‘if you don’t like South Korea, leave’ argument is tedious.

By: agadan

agadan — Mon, 14 Aug 2006 03:42:38 +0000

For citizens of any country, the “if you don’t like, leave” argument is insulting. It is only natural that citizens of a country want to make their country better (as they see it). Of course, you (and I) can disagree with the progressives or conservatives or whomever but I find this “love it or leave it” attitude offensive. I mean, isn’t this the attitude the government of Sudan has towards those in the southern areas that don’t agree with their “politics”. If you don’t like our wonderful Islamic theocratic Arabic speaking Sudan then leave it. Isn’t this the type of attitude (in its extreme) that leads to refugee crises and ethnic cleansing.

I’m not defending the opinions of those who sympathize with the North or want to make South Korean society more like the North but it is certainly their right do so.

By: kimchipig

kimchipig — Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:57:16 +0000

This stuff was illegal until a few years ago. For good reason, too. That said, I think that it is time South Korean students began to defect to the North in droves. They might actually have to do something other than squandering Daddy’s money on overpriced ESL schools here in Vancouver and $25 bottles (yes, I am not making this up, the Korean restraunts in Robson St charge and get $25 a bottle for Cham soju) of soju here in Canada, all while living in the most expensive flats in Canada while talking on the newest cellphone. Instead of the return flight landing in Inch’on, it can, with all patriot love, land in Pyonyyang.

Ahhhh the state of Korean ESL in Vancouver!

By: Zonath

Zonath — Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:39:05 +0000

Not especially, possibly due to the fact that defensive wars on US soil have been few and far between since the inception of the Republic (the Indian wars were basically wars of conquest, which is why I use ‘defensive wars’). There were some Native American tribes that participated in the War of 1812 on the American side, but that’s about it, as far as I remember from history class. Much of the Civil War was spent trying to convince England and France not to intercede on the side of the CSA, leaving that pretty much as a USA-CSA affair the whole way. I suppose you could also call the Vermont Republic’s intercession on behalf of the rest of the colonies during the Revolutionary war an intercession by a ‘foreign state’, even if Vermont was made the 14th state in 1791. But if we’re looking for more recent examples, then I guess there really aren’t any.

By: snow

snow — Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:14:57 +0000

“So I take it you don’t count the American Revolution, since America wasn’t an actual country back then?”

Good point, Zonath. I don’t know enough about the history, but are there are more recent examples?

By: usinkorea

usinkorea — Sat, 12 Aug 2006 07:38:29 +0000

Cumings - there was an opinion piece by a columnist for the Joongang Daily a couple of weeks ago that mentioned talking to his nephew or something like that - a school-aged kid, and the boy had asked if the North really started the war. It seems the boy mentioned Cumings and the South starting the war. The writer explained Cumings’ idea in the only book he wrote being worth the title “academic” of 3 possible ways the war started.

But the main line was — the boy said he believed the North started the war, but if he said that at school, he would get “bullied.”

Books - On the 1st anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, I was back in Korea. My wife (Korean) and I were at Kyobo Bookstore in Seoul. While she was eye-shopping, I was bored, but I happened to notice a book display that was on the attacks for the anniversary. I had noticed the same display at the entrance. After looking at it, I walked around the whole store, and I found the same display in about 5 or 6 locations - both entrances and around the corners at the openings of the different sections.

I wandered around to count how many displays there were, because I found the books they chose to commemorate the attacks fascinating.

There was a translation of the French book that said it was a hoax and CIA blackbag job. There was a translation of a Japanese book that seemed to be about the same idea. I believe Gangster America was there. There were a couple of other similar books about US foriegn policy as the cause of the trouble. And there were 3 translations of books by Noam Chompsky - written before 9/11.

I wish I had had my camera to take a picture.

And this was no hole in the wall bookstore for the intelligentsia. This was one of the biggest in the nation and a mecca for foreigeners too boot.

And lastly - an article from last year said the Korea Teachers Union has the largest monetary war chest of any union in Korea. That was hard to believe, but if it is true, it is a jaw dropper. And I think you can look at it as an effort by the North and those sympathetic to it. Historically speaking, these types have paid great attention to the value of propaganda and targeted it at the youth and the working class.

By: Zhang Fei

Zhang Fei — Sat, 12 Aug 2006 01:58:39 +0000

J: Ah Zhang Fei, my irony detector must be broken. I don’t recall this discussion having anything to do with regards to China. It’s good to know we can always rely on you for entertaining non-sequitors.

Actually, this started out being a comment on how South Korea distorts history. Then Jing suggested - erroneously - that the US also distorts history and is thus the major exponent in this kind of thing. Upon which I pointed out the king of historical distortion is China. Point being that historical distortion is not only not the American norm, as Jing suggests, it is nowhere practised as unself-consciously as in China. I understand why Jing would like to avoid having to defend China’s sorry record, but since we’re talking about norms, I think it’s quite germane to talk about what other countries do, especially Jing’s “5000-year-old” motherland.

By: Jing

Jing — Sat, 12 Aug 2006 01:25:52 +0000

Ah Zhang Fei, my irony detector must be broken. I don’t recall this discussion having anything to do with regards to China. It’s good to know we can always rely on you for entertaining non-sequitors.

By: MrChips

MrChips — Fri, 11 Aug 2006 23:41:45 +0000

Andy, I’ pretty confident in what you say regarding readers of Cummings IF those readers are non-Koreans. But, what is your sense of the readership in Korea by Koreans? In spite of all the evidence against him I’ve been dismayed that people I come in contact with there in academia and politics still worship Cummings as a great historian. I don’t think there can be any dissuading them as long as ideology determines their historical interpratation. Most conservative Koreans on the other hand won’t even read Cummings if they have heard anything about him.

By: Andy Jackson

Andy Jackson — Fri, 11 Aug 2006 23:01:16 +0000

I would like to ad a note of caution here. Most of us interesting in Korea have read some Bruce Cumings. Most of us who have read his stuff pretty quickly moved beyond him.

So I am not ready to hit the panic button unless someone tells me that there are few books with alternative views available.