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	<title>Comments on: Is Roh isolated or a failure on NK policy?  Either way, it&#8217;s not good.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Wed,  3 Dec 2008 06:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: dogbertt</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45790</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbertt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>On behalf of all the Americans who taunted you in grade school, bluejives, I apologize.

Everything OK now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On behalf of all the Americans who taunted you in grade school, bluejives, I apologize.</p>
<p>Everything OK now?</p>
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		<title>By: snow</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45767</link>
		<dc:creator>snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"My understanding is that White expats from America usually make very poor minorities."

Yes, us white expats are the scum of the earth. We come here and work, pay taxes, spend money in the local economy, help meet the extreme demand for learning English, like the local women (hey, what if we hated the local women-wouldn't that be an insult?) and some of us even attempt to assimilate, though it is certainly not easy (impossible?). Oh, and some of us whine alot. 

Or would you prefer it that we collected welfare, joined gangs, committed armed violent crime, raped local women and refused to assimilate, meanwhile not complaining publically about the place?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My understanding is that White expats from America usually make very poor minorities.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, us white expats are the scum of the earth. We come here and work, pay taxes, spend money in the local economy, help meet the extreme demand for learning English, like the local women (hey, what if we hated the local women-wouldn&#8217;t that be an insult?) and some of us even attempt to assimilate, though it is certainly not easy (impossible?). Oh, and some of us whine alot. </p>
<p>Or would you prefer it that we collected welfare, joined gangs, committed armed violent crime, raped local women and refused to assimilate, meanwhile not complaining publically about the place?</p>
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		<title>By: slim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45763</link>
		<dc:creator>slim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 14:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"This is why I have no respect for First World expats." 

Do you have respect for ANYONE outside your tight, ethnically defined circle, Bluejives? You come across as less a person with a large chip on his shoulder than a celestial-sized CHIP with a person attached to it by his shoulder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is why I have no respect for First World expats.&#8221; </p>
<p>Do you have respect for ANYONE outside your tight, ethnically defined circle, Bluejives? You come across as less a person with a large chip on his shoulder than a celestial-sized CHIP with a person attached to it by his shoulder.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonath</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45682</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45682</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Shilla hardly “[beat] the crap out of everyone else on the peninsula.” The conquest of Koguryo was almost an entirely Tang affair, and Silla only contributed serious manpower in the last of many Tang invasions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That may be true (to be honest, I haven't delved too deply into the history of the Shilla 'unification'), but it still tends to dispel the notion that South Korea (and its precursor states) has been throughout its history some sort of peacenik commune, and so isn't accorded much international respect as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Shilla hardly “[beat] the crap out of everyone else on the peninsula.” The conquest of Koguryo was almost an entirely Tang affair, and Silla only contributed serious manpower in the last of many Tang invasions.</p></blockquote>
<p>That may be true (to be honest, I haven&#8217;t delved too deply into the history of the Shilla &#8216;unification&#8217;), but it still tends to dispel the notion that South Korea (and its precursor states) has been throughout its history some sort of peacenik commune, and so isn&#8217;t accorded much international respect as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: Richardson</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45679</link>
		<dc:creator>Richardson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ah, so that makes everything ok. Thanks for the insightful argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, so that makes everything ok. Thanks for the insightful argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45678</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bluejives, thanks for getting the spelling right. It's a sore point with me because my "variant" is the correct one. As for your point about us "immigrants" to Korea ought to have the cup of STFU I keep prescribing, well, you might have a point. &lt;b&gt;If we were immigrants.&lt;/b&gt; But whereas &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; get to be an immigrant in the United States, none of &lt;i&gt;us&lt;/i&gt; really get to be immigrants to Korea -- we're always and forever going to be &lt;b&gt;foreigners&lt;/b&gt;. Even if we're citizens, the attitude is "Wow, XX foreigners hold Korean citizenship!" (I do not, and would not, however, hold Korean citizenship. I'd gladly be a permanent resident, but let's face it -- I like country music, RC Cola and Moon Pies in the summer, and am even starting to like NASCAR.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bluejives, thanks for getting the spelling right. It&#8217;s a sore point with me because my &#8220;variant&#8221; is the correct one. As for your point about us &#8220;immigrants&#8221; to Korea ought to have the cup of STFU I keep prescribing, well, you might have a point. <b>If we were immigrants.</b> But whereas <i>you</i> get to be an immigrant in the United States, none of <i>us</i> really get to be immigrants to Korea &#8212; we&#8217;re always and forever going to be <b>foreigners</b>. Even if we&#8217;re citizens, the attitude is &#8220;Wow, XX foreigners hold Korean citizenship!&#8221; (I do not, and would not, however, hold Korean citizenship. I&#8217;d gladly be a permanent resident, but let&#8217;s face it &#8212; I like country music, RC Cola and Moon Pies in the summer, and am even starting to like NASCAR.)</p>
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		<title>By: bluejives</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45669</link>
		<dc:creator>bluejives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mr Brendon Carr, I sympathize with the various problems that expats endure in Korea. But I do not empathize.

Do you suppose that whenever a minority sets foot in a foreign country, that the native majority of that country is automatically inclined by default to be totally accomodating to the minority? Hell no.

Korea is no exception, we all know that by now.

But what is the expat population doing about it? Organizing unions to combat corruption in the hagwons? Fight for equal rights?

Doesnt sound like it. It seems like most expats consider Korea to be a temporary stay. Korea is not their permanent home in which their long term interests are at stake. They also make no effort to assimilate. Hence they are expats and not immigrants.

Well OK then. Expats will stay in Korea and bitch up a storm but they leave eventually and nothing changes and the next group of expats come and bitch up a storm and the cycle repeats itself.

This is why I have no respect for First World expats. You live in other people's countries but you expect to be treated the same without paying a "immigrant's due".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Brendon Carr, I sympathize with the various problems that expats endure in Korea. But I do not empathize.</p>
<p>Do you suppose that whenever a minority sets foot in a foreign country, that the native majority of that country is automatically inclined by default to be totally accomodating to the minority? Hell no.</p>
<p>Korea is no exception, we all know that by now.</p>
<p>But what is the expat population doing about it? Organizing unions to combat corruption in the hagwons? Fight for equal rights?</p>
<p>Doesnt sound like it. It seems like most expats consider Korea to be a temporary stay. Korea is not their permanent home in which their long term interests are at stake. They also make no effort to assimilate. Hence they are expats and not immigrants.</p>
<p>Well OK then. Expats will stay in Korea and bitch up a storm but they leave eventually and nothing changes and the next group of expats come and bitch up a storm and the cycle repeats itself.</p>
<p>This is why I have no respect for First World expats. You live in other people&#8217;s countries but you expect to be treated the same without paying a &#8220;immigrant&#8217;s due&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: dogbertt</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45621</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbertt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;My understanding is that White expats from America usually make very poor minorities. Especially when they were used to being the majority back home. Especially when they find themselves a minority in country whose people they subconsciously consider “beneath them”, in certain ways.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Pot-kettle-bluejives</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My understanding is that White expats from America usually make very poor minorities. Especially when they were used to being the majority back home. Especially when they find themselves a minority in country whose people they subconsciously consider “beneath them”, in certain ways.</p></blockquote>
<p>Pot-kettle-bluejives</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45619</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ghola and I are oddly almost in &lt;b&gt;complete agreement&lt;/b&gt;: U.S. Constitution and English Common Law as greatest achievement in human history, &lt;i&gt;check&lt;/i&gt;. Odd Korean customs as complete lack of manners and civility from Western perspective, &lt;i&gt;check&lt;/i&gt;. Inability to resist fraudulous shenanigans as income-generating benefit to foreign lawyer, &lt;i&gt;check&lt;/i&gt;. Random white guys' opinions as largely irrelevant to larger question of national identity, &lt;i&gt;check&lt;/i&gt;.

Anyway, advice to "Korea" is this: Don't beg for my opinion as the benchmark of your self-esteem, since the risk of unwanted perspective is so high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ghola and I are oddly almost in <b>complete agreement</b>: U.S. Constitution and English Common Law as greatest achievement in human history, <i>check</i>. Odd Korean customs as complete lack of manners and civility from Western perspective, <i>check</i>. Inability to resist fraudulous shenanigans as income-generating benefit to foreign lawyer, <i>check</i>. Random white guys&#8217; opinions as largely irrelevant to larger question of national identity, <i>check</i>.</p>
<p>Anyway, advice to &#8220;Korea&#8221; is this: Don&#8217;t beg for my opinion as the benchmark of your self-esteem, since the risk of unwanted perspective is so high.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45617</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/06/is-roh-isolated-or-a-failure-on-nk-policy-either-way-its-not-good/#comment-45617</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Look, Brendan Carr, if you want to say that Koreans are a bunch of inbreed, homogenized mongoloids just say it plainly rather than disguise it under some false-intellectual pretense.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Who said that? My position is that Korea doesn't know or follow the "rules of the game", but is bothered at not being acclaimed as the best player. The only problem comes from wanting to be in the game without actually joining a team or understanding the rules.

As to whether I or any other white man (presumably blacks can get a pass from you, due to their sharing with you the experience of white oppression) subconsciously -- &lt;i&gt;how do you read my mind, anyway?&lt;/i&gt; -- consider Korea "beneath me", who cares even if that's true? Why is &lt;b&gt;my&lt;/b&gt; opinion of Korea so important? The country will still be itself whether or not white people praise it.

Also, Mr. Bluejives, do me the courtesy of spelling my first name correctly. It's conveniently right in front of you, so all you really have to do is copy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Look, Brendan Carr, if you want to say that Koreans are a bunch of inbreed, homogenized mongoloids just say it plainly rather than disguise it under some false-intellectual pretense.</p></blockquote>
<p>Who said that? My position is that Korea doesn&#8217;t know or follow the &#8220;rules of the game&#8221;, but is bothered at not being acclaimed as the best player. The only problem comes from wanting to be in the game without actually joining a team or understanding the rules.</p>
<p>As to whether I or any other white man (presumably blacks can get a pass from you, due to their sharing with you the experience of white oppression) subconsciously &#8212; <i>how do you read my mind, anyway?</i> &#8212; consider Korea &#8220;beneath me&#8221;, who cares even if that&#8217;s true? Why is <b>my</b> opinion of Korea so important? The country will still be itself whether or not white people praise it.</p>
<p>Also, Mr. Bluejives, do me the courtesy of spelling my first name correctly. It&#8217;s conveniently right in front of you, so all you really have to do is copy.</p>
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