Comments on: When in Rome, but… http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/ Korea... in Blog Format Fri, 5 Sep 2008 06:57:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: I Guess I Won’t Be Ordering My Cheesesteak in Kiswahili… | The Marmot's Hole http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-143101 I Guess I Won’t Be Ordering My Cheesesteak in Kiswahili… | The Marmot's Hole Thu, 20 Mar 2008 02:32:54 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-143101 [...] Geno’s Steaks in Philly? Well, the city’s Commission on Human Relations (is this anything like the Alberta Human [...] [...] Geno’s Steaks in Philly? Well, the city’s Commission on Human Relations (is this anything like the Alberta Human [...]

]]> By: I Guess I Won’t Be Ordering My Cheesesteak in Kiswahili… | The Marmot's Hole http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-143102 I Guess I Won’t Be Ordering My Cheesesteak in Kiswahili… | The Marmot's Hole Thu, 20 Mar 2008 02:32:54 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-143102 [...] Geno’s Steaks in Philly? Well, the city’s Commission on Human Relations (is this anything like the Alberta Human [...] [...] Geno’s Steaks in Philly? Well, the city’s Commission on Human Relations (is this anything like the Alberta Human [...]

]]> By: kuraeji http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45761 kuraeji Thu, 10 Aug 2006 14:07:35 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45761 Irony (or not?) - The place that said "No Americans" in 2002 was named "Zeno's." http://saysecret.com/hanhakmoon/findingkorea/finding%20korea3/new%20web%20medium/images/americans_guilty3.jpg Hehe. Cool. Irony (or not?) -

The place that said “No Americans” in 2002 was named “Zeno’s.”

http://saysecret.com/hanhakmoo.....uilty3.jpg

Hehe. Cool.

]]> By: dogbertt http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45525 dogbertt Wed, 09 Aug 2006 02:27:16 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45525 So why import more poor people to make the problem worse? We need to take a bit of a dispassionate look at our immigration policy (including illegal immigration) and not just make the automatic assumption that the country would collapse if illegal immigrants did not continue to arrive in the millions each year. So why import more poor people to make the problem worse? We need to take a bit of a dispassionate look at our immigration policy (including illegal immigration) and not just make the automatic assumption that the country would collapse if illegal immigrants did not continue to arrive in the millions each year.

]]> By: Brendon Carr http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45523 Brendon Carr Wed, 09 Aug 2006 02:10:34 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45523 Well, it's all too often the case that <b>any</b> parent's child becomes a vicious gang member. What a ridiculous proposition, Dogbertt! <i>Poor people</i>, regardless of whether they are immigrants, run a greater risk of being drawn into the unsavory corners of the society (rich kids, too, but their peccadilloes tend more toward the laughable than the scary). But a hell of a lot of poor immigrants' children end up as paragons of the American dream: I went to law school with a lot of them. Well, it’s all too often the case that any parent’s child becomes a vicious gang member. What a ridiculous proposition, Dogbertt! Poor people, regardless of whether they are immigrants, run a greater risk of being drawn into the unsavory corners of the society (rich kids, too, but their peccadilloes tend more toward the laughable than the scary). But a hell of a lot of poor immigrants’ children end up as paragons of the American dream: I went to law school with a lot of them.

]]> By: dogbertt http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45516 dogbertt Wed, 09 Aug 2006 00:52:35 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45516 The last time the U.S. federal government instituted a guest worker program (which was limited to Mexicans), it failed miserably. As hard working as many of the migrants are, it is all too often the case that their children become vicious gang members, bringing down the quality of life for all. As you said, these are desperate people, after all. The last time the U.S. federal government instituted a guest worker program (which was limited to Mexicans), it failed miserably.

As hard working as many of the migrants are, it is all too often the case that their children become vicious gang members, bringing down the quality of life for all. As you said, these are desperate people, after all.

]]> By: michael http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45463 michael Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:23:10 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45463 Sonagi, I agree with a lot of the points you made, and I was pointing out that the status quo harms everybody and benefits no one (except obviously the employers in the short run). A guest worker program is fine in principle, although I distrust the way it would be carried out and the new layer of bureacracy it would entail, but yes that would be better than what we have now, which is an uncontrolled influx of illegal immigrants. Sonagi, I agree with a lot of the points you made, and I was pointing out that the status quo harms everybody and benefits no one (except obviously the employers in the short run).

A guest worker program is fine in principle, although I distrust the way it would be carried out and the new layer of bureacracy it would entail, but yes that would be better than what we have now, which is an uncontrolled influx of illegal immigrants.

]]> By: Sonagi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45462 Sonagi Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:12:52 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45462 Michael, I said undocumented workers do dirty work. I never said they did work Americans won't do. That is a common argument in favor of legalizing the status of foreign workers, but it is not an argument I've made on this thread. It is true that some work done by undocumented workers is seasonal, like agriculture and construction, and thus more suitable for temporary migrant workers than legal residents seeking permanent full-time work. What I object to is the demonization of these workers. They are just desperately poor people seeking a better life for themselves and their families. As long as American employers are willing to hire them, they will keep coming, no matter how long we extend that fence along the Mexican border. If Americans want to stop illegal immigration, then go after the cause - US employers who hire undocumented foreign workers - and/or introduce a guest worker program to legalize the status of these workers. Canada is much more progressive, instituting a guest worker program that brings in temporary workers to perform seasonal labor. The workers' legal status gives them rights, and allows the government to document their presence. Moreover, since families remain in their home countries, there is less strain on public facilities like hospitals and schools. Another advantage of a guest worker program is that it could be used to diversify the worker population. Eight out of the top ten countriest supplying immigrants to the US are Spanish-speaking. The number one country, Mexico, sends twice as many immigrants as number two China. ESL programs in most school districts are dominated by Spanish-speaking students. Each group of immigrants brings its own strengths and weaknesses, so structuring immigration policy to create a more diverse mix would be better for our country. Michael,

I said undocumented workers do dirty work. I never said they did work Americans won’t do. That is a common argument in favor of legalizing the status of foreign workers, but it is not an argument I’ve made on this thread. It is true that some work done by undocumented workers is seasonal, like agriculture and construction, and thus more suitable for temporary migrant workers than legal residents seeking permanent full-time work.

What I object to is the demonization of these workers. They are just desperately poor people seeking a better life for themselves and their families. As long as American employers are willing to hire them, they will keep coming, no matter how long we extend that fence along the Mexican border. If Americans want to stop illegal immigration, then go after the cause - US employers who hire undocumented foreign workers - and/or introduce a guest worker program to legalize the status of these workers. Canada is much more progressive, instituting a guest worker program that brings in temporary workers to perform seasonal labor. The workers’ legal status gives them rights, and allows the government to document their presence. Moreover, since families remain in their home countries, there is less strain on public facilities like hospitals and schools.

Another advantage of a guest worker program is that it could be used to diversify the worker population. Eight out of the top ten countriest supplying immigrants to the US are Spanish-speaking. The number one country, Mexico, sends twice as many immigrants as number two China. ESL programs in most school districts are dominated by Spanish-speaking students. Each group of immigrants brings its own strengths and weaknesses, so structuring immigration policy to create a more diverse mix would be better for our country.

]]> By: Won Joon Choe http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45394 Won Joon Choe Mon, 07 Aug 2006 02:18:51 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45394 Sonagi wrote: "Close, Won Joon. I’m actually a reincarnation of Jane Addams." LOL, I guess it's all good until you decide to morph into a Carry Nation on Dda :) Sonagi wrote:

“Close, Won Joon. I’m actually a reincarnation of Jane Addams.”

LOL, I guess it’s all good until you decide to morph into a Carry Nation on Dda :)

]]> By: michael http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45393 michael Mon, 07 Aug 2006 02:17:48 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/08/02/when-in-rome-but/#comment-45393 Sonagi, all due respect, but your "they do the dirty work we won't do" argument is misleading. Undocumented workers from Mexico and Central America drain the U.S. of billions of dollars a year when they remit their earnings overseas; they often leave families behind in their home countries for years at a time, so the woman must raise children alone; it hinders political reform in their home countries because politicians use the U.S. as a safety valve to avoid domestic reforms; and most importantly, as they are not U.S. citizens, if they commit crimes it is very difficult to locate and punish them. Illegal migration hurts both the U.S. and Mexico far more than it helps the economy, and allowing it to continue is shortsighted. Sonagi, all due respect, but your “they do the dirty work we won’t do” argument is misleading. Undocumented workers from Mexico and Central America drain the U.S. of billions of dollars a year when they remit their earnings overseas; they often leave families behind in their home countries for years at a time, so the woman must raise children alone; it hinders political reform in their home countries because politicians use the U.S. as a safety valve to avoid domestic reforms; and most importantly, as they are not U.S. citizens, if they commit crimes it is very difficult to locate and punish them. Illegal migration hurts both the U.S. and Mexico far more than it helps the economy, and allowing it to continue is shortsighted.

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