It seems a couple of foreign barbarians bitched to the Dong-A Ilbo about how “boring” Korea is (HT to James at Lost Nomad):
To Bill Wesley (54) from England, who does a trading business, Korea was a “boring country” with nowhere to go after work.
Mr. Wesley complained that most of the major tourist attractions like Deoksugung closed at 6:00 p.m., and the products at the department stores were ridiculously expensive.
Japanese tourist Masahiro Yoshito (37) spent most of his 4-day visit buying Chinese “imitation” designer products at Dongdaemun Market in Seoul. “After I visited a few palaces, there was nowhere else to go in Seoul,” he said. “The only upside of visiting Korea was the easy access to imitation products.”
You know, I’ve heard these sort of complaints a lot. And it’s a real shame, because I’ve always felt that Korea is a remarkably fun place with a tremendous amount to see, especially for a country its size.
The problem—or at least part of it, anyway—might be that Korea’s charm is of a more understated, genteel nature. You won’t find the ostentatious, brashly colored monuments that you’ll find in Beijing, or the obsessive attention to detail that you find in Japan’s traditional architecture. Instead, you find a subdued and very human elegance—see for example Dosan Confucian Academy or Soswaewon Garden. When you visit places like these, your jaw doesn’t drop like it might when you visit the Forbidden City or Kinkaku-ji, but that’s the point. Instead, with their earth tones and natural lines, they embrace you much as nature embraces them. To paraphrase Cultural Properties Administration chief Yoo Hong-joon, Korean architecture is meant to be touched. And that requires time to experience such sites, not just see them.
Of course, if you’re unable to leave Seoul, this will cut down on your tourist experience (resident expats, on the other hand, have no excuse). But like Korea’s traditional architecture, Seoul is meant to be lived in—to be touched, if you will—rather than simply stared at. Compared to other major cities, Seoul might seem drab and, well, “boring,” although the city has been making great strides in this regard. But spend some time in the city and actually make the effort to get to know it, and its charm become apparent. Its backalleys, its unique neighborhoods, its little pieces of history tucked away here and there… there’s so much to enjoy, as long as you’re willing to a) explore, and b) experience rather than sightsee.
72 Comments
Very well put, Robert.
As opposed to the obsessive, utter lack of attention to details in modern Korean constructions?
What you described about Seoul can be attributed to almost any large city, anywhere in the world. What a lot of those DON’T have are the endless miles of ugly, boring highrise apartments which suck the sunlight and life right out of you. Sorry, as longtime readers of my blog know, I don’t like Seoul and never will - and neither does my wife.
And compared to other Asian destinations…well, truth be told, Korea IS boring. Once I go back to the states, this is the last place I’ll spend money on to vacation in. The only reason I’ll ever come back here once I leave is to see the family.
It is quite striking how China has so much more imaginative architecture than Korea. The modern stuff is better, the recent-era (1970s) stuff is better, and definitely the “classic” stuff is better (in that it still exists).
childish nonsense…. of course there are things to do.
it can have its charm to residents putting in the time and effort to research and study korean language. to those interested in sightseeing, it’s, well, boring. even as a long-time resident myself, i find seoul to be one of the most unimaginative, non-creative cities in the world. add to this a seeming lack of passion in anything except getting drunk and whoring, and that’s seoul.
Every place can seem boring if you lack the information on where to go, what to see, and what to do. Sadly, many people do not make much of an effort to find the good stuff.
I would have to agree that Seoul’s charm lies in its tucked-away places. The city’s constant destruction and rebuilding– as businesses appear and go under– is also, in a weird way, part of its gritty charm: you’re always going to find something new here. I’m not really a fan of big cities, but I have to say that, for a mutant offspring of the northern Virginia suburbs like me, Seoul has never been boring.
Kevin
Brendon, the modern architectural advantages in China are for the most part due to wealthy governors son’s able to study at Harvard in the 40’s and the ideas brought back home.
Chinese traditional architecture, “the classic”, would be better than, well, “nothing”, and it is practically extinct. I don’t think the Chinese are anymore creative than the Koreans when both are compared to the Japanese.
I fully agree with Robert on how interesting Korea is and the reason why its aesthetics are so appealing, once you learn to pay attention to them with a relaxed mind. I can’t agree with Brendon at all that China’s classical architecture is better than Korea’s — its gaudy, trying to hard to impress and bedazzle. The remaining Korean stuff remains elegant in its peaceful and human-scale excellence; its spirit is far deeper.
Several times I’ve had to sit at VIP dinners and listen to some rich or important twit say that Korea doesn’t have much of interest to visit — “it’s all just temples, and once you’ve seen one of those that’s it, because they’re all the same” — and have to restrain myself from shouting at them. One of the greatest charms of Korean temples is that, for the thousand or so traditional ones, everyone is quite different, unique in its siting / arrangement, architecture and/or artworks — every one of them has something remarkable, if you’ll just open your eyes! This is not in all true in China, Japan, Thailand, Tibet or etc….
And the temples are just the beginning of fascination, don’t get me started! I know that a lot of other people are not like me, really into mountains & gorges, shamanism, the various Oriental Religions and such — but my Gawd, there’s SO much great stuff here! I can’t help but attribute such comments as reported above to the persons own mental and physical laziness, either not getting out there beyond the Itaewon bars at all, or else not learning enough to appreciate the subtleties of what you’re seeing — and NO, learning Korean is not at all required, plenty of info in English is available, both background and practical — I myself am the perfect example, still don’t know Korean language worth shit but find endless fascination here….
Seoul is the capital of Korea, and is also its largest city. Who would say that Washington, D.C. represents the whole of the United States? Who would say that New York City does? Both those American cities offer attractions for tourists, yet they don’t fully represent America (and they certainly do not represent that country’s natural beauty).
If he could be bothered, he should try Pogildo: a beautiful little island of the southern coast, with pretty landscape and unique links to Korean history. If that’s a bit of a challenge, how about Tongdosa: a valley, north of Pusan, which is dotted with interesting temples but is otherwise left in a natural state. If that’s still too far, how about a trip to Puyo: a small town in Chungcheongdo which nonetheless managed at one time to be the center of an ancient kindgom, and these days offers good restaurants and a great museum. And this is, of course, without listing some of the more often-mentioned places. Mr. Wesley ought to get out of Seoul and have a look at the country in which he’s doing business.
Isnt Kushibo a commenter on this blog? They are talking about him this blog. They say he and Nora are the same person.
“even as a long-time resident myself, i find seoul to be one of the most unimaginative, non-creative cities in the world. add to this a seeming lack of passion in anything except getting drunk and whoring, and that’s seoul”
haha, judy, come on you’re just bustin’ balls….you know there are shows and films and galleries…what do you expect?
I lived in NYC for years and never complained about a lack of things to do and I never did anything except maybe watch films and bands. But we can’t expect the same level in Seoul, or even Tokyo. They can’t afford to show Koyanasqatsi for a month -it just can’t happen. There has to be an understanding - a balance between what we want and what can be done.
And, I personally love the whore-salon room thingy and I see your point in how that could easily drift into the ultimate idea of interest in Seoul….true, that is a problem.
I have long believed that it is not that Korea has nothing to offer visitors, it’s just that it fails in marketing itself in an appealing way. (Or marketing itself period.)
While Seoul is always fun for an out of towner like me to visit once in a while, I would have to say that even though I lived there for a while and loved it, after living in Busan, I probably would never choose to live there again unless of course I got a great job offer or fell in love with a Seoul man. (I pretty much echo Nomad’s words on what I don’t like about Seoul but don’t get me wrong, there is alot to like about it too, just not enough to make me live there at this point in my life.)
As for what the rest of the country offers, I think there is a lot out there, especially the surrounding islands. However, is provincial Korea equipped to handle foreign visitors? I would say it’s service sector is severely lacking.
But it is certainly an easy thing to solve and I would suggest Korea put an effort into improving it.
Boring certainly isn’t an adjective I’d use. Expensive is one I would. Unless one smokes. Given the story is about how well each county does tapping the foreigner’s wallet it shouldn’t be a surprise there’s a great deal of sticker shock here; I suspect foreigners, once home, note to their friends Korea isn’t a good value. And Korea is still a place where foreigners come to buy fakes. For one of the world’s largest economies that’s so 1970s. I’m surprised how well SingaBore does. Anyone else wondering why “IT powerhouse” Korea doesn’t do as well? Since the ’70s Korea has done quite well with the Japanese tourists, and has been pretty good at retaining the trade as its costs have increased. Who would have predicted that tourist trade would evolve to one attracting Japanese females? I reckon they find spas and visiting sites where their favorite Korean dramas are shot fascinating.
It’s all about word-of-mouth advertising. How well does Korea do in that regard?
I think it’s worth adding that - ever so slowly - Korea’s cultural festivals are improving. There are a fair few film festivals, of which Pusan is gaining a degree of international renown. Also, I went to the Pentaport rock festival last weekend and, Friday downpour notwithstanding, it was a big success. Fingers crossed Korea may soon see more international music acts above the calibre of Toto.
Danger Mouse, the festivals are fine, provided that the organizers *actually* have money before they try to book people to play at the festivals. I really wish the business management side would improve more.
Those bored visitors should start blogs that bitch about Korea. When the going gets boring, the bored get bitching!
This was a great read. Glad to see some positivity.
I have long said that Seoul is a fine place to live, but I wouldn’t want to visit here. Meaning that there is plenty to do, but not much in the way of touristy stuff. The Lotte Worlds are lame and the palaces’ lack of maintenance is downright criminal.
However, there are a lot of fun things going on. Pentaport was a blast (and all the bands got paid just fine). There are many places to go for good music. There are film festivals coming out the butt.
Sure, the foreign and avant garde communities are not as large as Tokyo (but, really, how many cities can say that?). And there have not been many good books about Korea, to make here more accessible. But there is a lot to do, if you get off your butt and make the effort.
Hear here
I’ve never been bored here. I wouldn’t come here as a tourist, but living here as an expat is always interesting. As for tourism, I put down a few thoughts on that at the Nomad’s post on the subject.
Seoul and Korea don’t have much competitive advantages compare to other tourist destination in Asia. Seoul wasn’t built and developed as the tourist destination. Rather it was developed and expanded as the core of financial and residential place in Korea. Centralized gov. more focused on subways, grey apartments, industrial complexes in cities for endless inflow of workforces from rural area than maintaining historical heritages and developing Korea as a tourist spot. It wasn’t shame for developers and city planners to built an apartment complex on valuable historical site.
It would be just a decade ago or bit more that Korean realized how tourism could be important and valuable to the country. Definitely, It’s still a long way to go. and hoping that Korea would find it’s unique advantages over China or Japan.
And you would not be boring as Robert put “there’s so much to enjoy, as long as you’re willing to a) explore, and b) experience rather than sightsee”.
Wherever you visit, Wherever you live.
I’m not sure how you can visit any strange city and be bored, especially if you are only there for 3-4 days. Just riding the buses in Korea (or at least they used to be 10 years ago)can be an adventure.
The way I see it, for those that are bored in Seoul it is either a case of personality mismatch or these are people who will be bored anywhere they go.
However Korea defintely needs to get on the tourism bus and start to advertise itself as a tourist destination. They did so in 1988 and then for the previous world cup but the government doesn’t bother when there is no big event happening. I wonder if the Korean government thinks Seoul is boring??
I dunno that I would say that. The service sector in much of Korea might not seem particularly impressed by tourists, but they’re certainly not rude, and will go above and beyond in order to help out.
Restaurants - Okay, sure. Outside of Seoul, most (say, about 90-95%) of the restaurants are Korean food restaurants (and I am including the ‘Chinese’ and ‘Japanese’ restaurants that have been so heavily Koreanized as to be unrecognizeable as a different cuisine), which might pose a problem to some people. But those pansies who want to eat their home country’s food in a foreign country aside, the food is good, it’s cheap, and it’s plentiful. Of course, I happen to be one of those people who laughs at people who go to foreign countries and seek out restaurants that serve non-native cuisine. Even for those utter wimps, there are still good (some great) foreign restaurants outside Seoul — it just take a bit of looking to find them most of the time.
Hotels - Unless you’re the type of preening, fainting, princess-like tourist who simply must have a four-star hotel wherever you go, there are plenty of perfectly good options for hotels in the provinces. If you’re planning to stay at your hotel the whole time, then why not just go to somewhere warm? Most hotel rooms are clean, and come with a bed and a private bath — what more do you really want?
Taxis - Provincial taxi drivers tend to be much more laid-back than their bretheren in Seoul and the big cities. And on the definite plus side, I’ve never had a taxi driver try to take me on any ’shortcuts’, nor take me to the ‘wrong hotel’ and then insist that I stay there because it really is a great deal — just tell them Mr. Kim sent you. On the other hand, they still drive like bats out of Hell. Buckle your seatbelt.
The original article wasn’t really about Korea being boring. It was about the negative “tourism balance”, or the fact that Koreans abroad have spent more than foreigners in Korea for the past 60 months running.
There’s two things to explore here. The first would be Korea’s failure to attract the foreign tourist dollar. The second would be Korea’s failure to keep its own citizens spending their hard-earned won at home.
So why can’t Korea attract tourist dollars? First off, I bet a lot of what foreigners do spend here goes unreported. Small businesses dominate, and small businesses always have cash flow issues. Think of Doota/Dongdaemoon: many stalls probably don’t accept cards, and if they do, they offer a better discount to a customer willing to pay in cash. The same goes for the Yongsan electronics markets. Also, I’d be surprised if the brothels and the room salons are reporting all of their figures to Visa and/or to the government. One would assume that foreigners tend to pay cash at such establishments.
Secondly, in my honest opinion, Korea is an unattractive tourist destination with little to recommend it.
Relative to its neighbors, Korea has poor natural attractions and institutions. I believe that the Korean landscape (once outside of the major cities) is striking in its beauty. I love mountain hiking in Korea, the views are outstanding. But at the end of the day, no one is going to travel to Korea to go mountain hiking when they could go scuba diving and snorkeling in Thailand or hiking through Ankor Wat, not to mention that the latter two trips would likely be much cheaper.
Korea’s museums of art and history cannot compare to those put forth by their Asian neighbors, neither in content nor in presentation. Sure, we can all congratulate ourselves on our intelligence and refinement, lamenting that the ignorant tourist masses just don’t appreciate the subtle mahhhhvels of Korea’s history and temples. But let’s be honest here. Imagine you’re living in Texas or Singapore or London or wherever, really, and you have a week and a budget to go to Asia to check out history and culture and museums. Do you pick Korea? No. The story is relatively uninteresting. And when you get here and do the uninspiring English-language tours, or go to the museums where phoeneticised Korean titles outnumber the English translations, you find that the story is poorly told.
Korean service is fantastic, definitely in terms of respect and promptness the best I’ve experienced in the world. Unfortunately, most places fall short in accommodating non-Koreans. Outside of Itaewon and Yongsan, it is rare to find anyone skilled and/or brave enough to attempt English in Seoul, let alone some remote tourist destination. I have been told this is the major reason why empty taxis will blow past foreigners only to pick up a Korean a hundred meters further. But it is a poor excuse.
For Korean tourism to go beyond the Winter Sonata chasers and the Taiwanese value skiers will be difficult, because a dedication to truly accommodating foreigners– what they want and how they want it, on their terms– is required. Korea has to first try to think like a foreigner, and then to look at itself, critically, through foreign eyes. I am extremely skeptical that this will happen any time soon.
There is an old saying: “Don’t confuse doing nothing with nothing it do.”
I have always felt that if you are bored, it is your own fault!
Ever talk to an Asiana or KA stewardess? Nine times out of 10 they hang at their hotel during their stay in whatever exotic foreign location–except for safe shopping places like Singapore. This Bill Wesley guy sounds just like one of those travellers. Although Korea may not be the greatest tourist destination in the world, it’s your own fault if you’re bored here.
The problem with Korea is that Koreans have destroyed much of its quaintness. In my opinion, there is almost nothing quaint about Insa-dong, which is an extremely poor imitation of the old Insadong. Even many of Korea’s Buddhist temples are being reconstructed into poor imitations of themselves or are being marred with shabby-looking modern structures built among the old ones. Concrete is a poor substitute for stone and naked light bulbs are a poor substitute for old-fashioned lanterns.
Koreans tear down quaint buildings and attempt to build modern quaintness, but they often fail miserably. In Korea, it seems like very little is sacred as historical buildings are destroyed for reasons that boggle the mind.
It’s funny that Mr. Marmot and Sanshinseon both imply that tourists should try harder to enjoy korea–you guys have been here too long…tourists like to gawk at shit and take photos and buy souvenirs, and there’s little to attract them here.
Pickles basically nailed it, Korea doesn’t have the tourist infrastructure and “most places fall short in accommodating non-Koreans.” But the country’s been struggling to rise economically and dictatorships aren’t fun, so let’s cut it some slack.
Seoul is deadly boring for architecture but then most big cities with a recently built skyline are. Also, no one would accuse Seoul of being cosmopolitan. However, it is a comfortable place to live in.
Wedge, flight attendants stay close to their hotels because they’re working, they’re tired and have another flight to work usually a few hours after they arrive, not because they’re not swingers.
Actually Zonath, what I meant by a weak service sector is provincial Korea’s lack of foreign languages which can intimidate travelers.
One can sit and complain about travelers not willing to try new things or learn tourist vocabulary (and I would agree, it’s unfortunate) but if a country is serious about attracting tourists, they have to accomodate to the tourists’ needs, comforts and laziness. If this means knowing another language, offering menues written in English, Chinese or Japanese or having the option of eating at a Chinese, Western or Japanese restaurant, then a country should at least make the effort to offer these options.
Some countries don’t have to do this because no matter what, people will flock to them anyway. But since this isn’t happening in Korea, it would probably be in this country’s best interest to polish up its service sector in generle.
Michael said: “Wedge, flight attendants stay close to their hotels because they’re working, they’re tired and have another flight to work usually a few hours after they arrive, not because they’re not swingers.”
Bollocks. Here’s a typical conversation:
Me: So, where do you fly?
Her: I was in St. Petersburg last month. I was there two nights.
Me: Cool. You must’ve visited the Hermitage. Great old architecture in that city, no?
Her: I stayed in the hotel the whole time.
I was at a party and met a gaggle of Filipina Asiana stews (oops, “cabin crew”) a few months ago. One mentioned she had been to Siem Reap on their recently inaugurated service but had to visit Angkor Wat on her own since NOT ONE of the other stews would venture outside the hotel.
jodi-you seemed to have said the correct words regarding accommodations. being on vacation means being on vacation and not wanting to think, but to gawk, experience, and to tantalize the eye and brain. usually it means when a tourist leaves, they’re wanting more and willing to come back. apparently there are no or seldom repeat customers.
buildings are no doubt BLAND. i too was not impressed, but my theory is due to the fact that korea lacks imagination. a country that heavily heavily emphasizes on math & science with no room for art & imagination. korea not too long ago was a POOR country (until the US pulled them out of the hands of oppressors), and traveling abroad was and still is expensive. so experiencing other culture than their own is severly lacking.
i live out in farm land and it sucks out here. i have to drive long distances to be un-bored. sorry folks… but korea is boring. i’ve traveled in different places of Asia/Central & S. America/Canada/US and found more things that’s tantalized my imagination.
I’ll throw in my 2 won here. I mostly agree with Pickles above. Relative to its neighbors, Korea has poor natural attractions and institutions and very little to attract the average tourist who wants to visit Asia. Joe Blow in Dallas doesn’t give a crap about the nuances and slight differences in the Buddhist temples in Korea. He wants to see the Great Wall, Angkor Wat, Tiananmen Square or Wat Po in Bangkok. Why would he choose Haeundae Beach in Pusan over Koh Samui or Boracay? Who would rather go to Myeongdong than Ginza?
The simple fact is, in the business of international tourism Korea is not an enticing destination country for travelers. It’s drab and uninspiring modern architecture and thousands of monotonous apartment high-rises eventually disenchants even the most optimistic of the expats living here.
Now having said that, there are wonderful things to do and see in Korea. I’ve hiked Sorak San, been to the annual food festival in Suncheon, explored Jeju, seen the burial tombs in Kyungju, the bullfighting in Chongdo, the water light show in Namwon, tasted the best crabs in the world in Yeongduk and countless other excursions in my more than 10 years here. I can see how some would gush over the great little things to do in Korea. But that is the problem…they are little things.
I’m never really bored here and I definitely prefer living in Korea to the Bumf*ck town I grew up in back in the US, but I certainly can understand how most people might find Korea boring when compared to it’s more lustrous neighbors.
Wedge, you mean Korean stews are not adventurous? Could be so. My sister was a flight attendent for United for about 10 years, so that’s where I got my info. She said Seoul was a “shopping destination” for a long time, less so now.
For many Koreans that travel, the attraction is the hotel. I have been on a few OTs (Orientaion Training) at the Korean schools I’ve worked, and it is hard as hell to get the students out of those drab “condo” rooms and out onto some of the nearby mountain trails. I do not understand why the schools spend the big bucks to take students to mountain-retreat “condos” when the students spend 99 percent of their time in their rooms. The school should just save some money and rent rooms in a local yogwan
I personally don’t care for all those loud touristy crap that people cater to in other Countries. It’s too pandering. You can’t experience other people’s real culture that way.
I thought the tourist dollars have improved in Korea because of it’s popular melodramas, or, are those tours only popular with women?
Isn’t Lotto World in Soeul?
http://www.cityglance.org/fact.....arks.shtml
Isn’t Everlast resort, where Winter Sonata was filmed, the largest in Asia?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/.....p?t=378242
Doesn’t look like these guys know where to look.
Well, in few years you have Disneyland and Universal Studios and Hollywood style area going up there.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/.....p?t=367081
I’m really surprised things closes up at 6:00 P.M. How do you make money that way?
With regard to the stewardesses, it’s not their hotel rooms they never leave, it’s my hotel room. If you know what I mean, wink wink.
I don’t get it,
you have the two of the biggest theme parks in the world sitting right there in Seoul.
http://www.cityglance.org/asia.....main.shtml
Anyone who can’t find anything to do in Seoul has to be an idiot.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/.....p?t=185690
I’m really impressed by what’s been going up in China these days, it makes Eurpoean cities look like third rate, third world crap:
http://skyscrapercity.com/show.....&pp=20
LOL “Lotto” World and “Everlast” resort…you can gamble AND buy boxing trunks!
The problem is I’m never staying in the same hotel.
Origami-
i’m quite impressed with the building structures and how its layed out. china is a blooming country with imagination! far surpasses the korean society and its building structures that i’ve ever seen in comparison between korea and china. tisk tisk tisk!
now that’s imagination leaving me to come back for more!
the buildings may be “boring” but everything else is pretty fun and exciting. i mean, dude, this place never sleeps!
the fact that someone would judge a country buy its buildings is kind of boring, in my modest view
ask yourself one simple question. if you were back home in the US/Canada/Australia/whatever…and a good friend or relative asked you to recommend several countries that they should visit in Asia on THEIR vacation, what would you say?
if you claim that you’d tell them to visit korea, you’re a liar. the simple fact is, there is absolutely nothing distinct or unique about korea as a tourist destination. anything decent that you find in korea, you can find much better versions of it elsewhere in asia. and that’s exactly what tourists do.
better temples in thailand. better nightlife in tokyo. better architecture in china. better better beaches, food, and customer service anywhere else.
the place is absolutely boring in comparison to surrounding alternatives. the only hope the KNTO has is to legalize and promote the shit out of hookers, or start selling package tours of violent union protests and fistfights on the national assembly floor.
now THOSE i would recommend as being the best in asia.
Iheartblueballs for president!
We have three kinds of expats here in Korea:
1. Those that proclaim Korea is heaven on earth (you know who you are)
2. Those who say everything and anything Korean sucks (you know who you are)
3. And the other 99.9% who fall somewhere in between. IMHO, that .1% should be beaten about the upper head and shoulders by a mob of pygmies wielding miniature Louisville sluggers until some sense is beaten into their heads, if that’s possible.
Koreans get templed out, too. While on a jaunt through Southeast Asia, a Korean traveling in our group declined to visit World Heritage site Borobodur, a 1,000-year-old massive stone monument in central Java because she had “seen lots of temples.”
As an experienced traveler to Thailand, Japan, and a former resident of China, I can’t agree with your dismissal of Buddhist temple architecture in those countries. There is tremendous variety in China and Japan, especially. China boasts not only Buddhist temples, but also Daoist temples and Islamic mosques. Japan’s Shinto shrines are a serene contrast to its bustling Buddhist temples. It’s okay to praise Korea, but there’s no need to dis its neighbors. Your comment reminds me of this show Beseto Express, which used to air on Arirang. It’s purpose was to highlight cultural similarities and differences among the three countries. In comparing clothing, food, architecture, music, etc., the host would sometimes make remarks about how the Korean XYZ was superior to the others.
I disagree. I think the choices that a country or city makes about the way that city looks reveals a lot about the local culture: their values, their creativity, their refinement, ad infinitum.
China has a lot of interesting architecture, to the point of some buildings being controversial in their modernity (read: strangeness). A ton of these buildings were done by foreign architects, particularly European ones. But a lot of these structures pay homage to traditional design elements of Chinese architecture.
What this tells me, respectively, about the Chinese, the way they do business, the way they conduct their society and lives: the Chinese are willing to push the envelope, to fail even, in order to do something creative and new. They are not too proud/insecure to import foreign creativity. And they can distinguish between “giving props to the old school” and “always keeping it unquestioningly old school, except for a light dash of Paik Nam June thrown in as a hideously clashing afterthought”.
What does Seoul’s architecture say about Koreans? For the most part, nothing very good. However, there are some glimmers of hope. We can grumble about the state of the grass and the bad traffic, but the work that has been done around city hall/ulchiro is a phenomenal step in the right direction. This would include the City Hall lawn, the river walk, and the above-ground pedestrian crosswalks. If I am to understand correctly, the Seoul mayor was responsible for these improvements, and he should be commended. I’m sure there are plenty of financial justifications for these things (increasing tourism) but the message to Koreans seems novel and clear: it’s okay to do something just because it’s beautiful. Progress is not solely defined by the national GDP.
But the most beautiful modern architecture I’ve seen in Korea, if it qualifies as such, would be Seonyudo Park, (http://www.asla.org/awards/2004/04winners/entry557.html) on a small island on the Han, in the middle of the bridge leading south west from the Hapjeong station (just west of Hongdae). The island was formerly a water processing plant. The designers of the park kept a lot of the old rusting metal structures in place, while adding wooden structures, winding walkways, and tons of beautiful foliage. Aside from the natural beauty of Bukhan San mountain, this to me is the most beautiful place in Seoul. It feels very natural and green, and how surprising to see this subconscious message in Seoul, the lively green plants thriving amidst rusting modernity.
Ehh… I didn’t really enjoy the temples in Thailand that much. For a religion that prides itself on its austerity and asceticism, Thai buddhism sure does focus a lot on designing the most garish, ostentatious temples imaginable. Personally, I prefer something a bit more understated, but to each their own.
My two cents:
1. Someone above mentioned booze and whoring as the prevalent mentality of entertainment in Seoul, and it’s killing tourism for the normal foreign shmoe. I agree with that 100%. That’s where all the real money is being spent and where all the development is aimed. Bars, love hotels, night clubs, room salons, massage parlors, booking clubs, karaoke salons, country clubs with all-female staff and now, casinos. No serious Korean businessman would entertain a foreign guest by occupying his time with Korean cultural arts. The elite in Korea don’t blow off steam by visiting their local glazed pottery gallery. No, they blow millions of won a night on booze and whoring.
2. The sense I get from Koreans and their cultural arts, architecture, and scenery is that it’s no great shakes compared to other cultures. “It is what it is, but I’ll show you. Thank you for visiting our humble country.” Self-effacing, but self-defeating. Korea has to hype up its cultural offerings and build accessibility, no matter how they might ultimately be perceived. Look at Japan, they have near-naked fat guys shoving each other around a ring. Patent absurdity (IMHO). But the marketing and the presentation (not the fat guys themselves) is other-worldly. That other-worldly experience is what tourists are after.
Heck even Egypt is doing a better job at promoting themselves as a tourist destination – with the bombs, terrorism and shit. The current ad on TV almost made me wish to go. Fat chance though…
Well Mr. Wedge, (being polite to try and get on your good side)
In reference to your question above:
Ever talk to an Asiana or KA stewardess?
No I haven’t, however if you have any phone numbers you could give me, I would love to!!
Some random thoughts:
As someone who sometimes admittedly tends to artsy indulgences, I had a good laugh at Sambek_ZX’s comment:
Why not combine the cultural arts with business entertainment and its big bucks by reviving the gisaeng/kisaeng tradition? (I’m only half joking.)
I don’t personally find Korea boring at all, but I can understand how it doesn’t jump immediately to mind as a natural tourist destination for someone who doesn’t already have a prior interest in the place. I’m with Sanshinseon on the fascinating, endless variations on a theme in Korean Buddhist temple architecture, but here too, this is definitely a minority taste.
As for knocking the modern architecture as so many are wont to do, I can agree that most Korean cityscapes (not just Seoul but Daegu too, for example) are pretty drab, with few high points. But then many North American cities—and probably a few European cities that were rebuilt after WWII—are not real likely architectural prizewinners either. I’d say that in cases of both Seoul and Daegu—the two cities with which I’m most familiar—the main redeeming features are the surrounding mountains and rivers, as far as making the view from inside those cities bearable is concerned.
And yes, as another commenter pointed out, Lee Myung-Bak is definitely to be commended for his various initiatives to improve Seoul’s appearance, regardless of whatever motivations he might have had for doing so (perhaps simply the desire to see said improvements happen, and the means to make them happen?). Over time, we probably will see some better architecture, public amenities, etc. In the 60s and 70s when the government and developers weren’t flush with extra cash to spend on ornamental niceties, buildings and facilities were pretty utilitarian. But look at more recent features—even small things, like the new glass Seoul Station facade, or the high design standards of, say, recently-built washrooms in public parks—and one can see an improvement.
Anyhow, the least boring and most fascinating aspect of Seoul and in general Korea for me is simply the sheer volume and pace of traffic and street life. Coming from a mid-sized North American city, seeing the unceasing, rapid-paced hum of commerce and transportation between some 10 to 20 million human beings in Seoul every day is pretty amazing. The street vendors, the restaurants, the markets, the subways, the 50 lanes of traffic on Sejongno…all that stuff can definitely get wearying (especially from the traffic noise and pollution) but never boring.
Just some random thoughts….
> iheartblueballs from United States
> … a good friend or relative asked you to recommend
> several countries that they should visit in Asia on
> THEIR vacation, what would you say? if you claim
> that you’d tell them to visit korea, you’re a liar.
I have done exactly this, sincerely and recently; no lie. Just this summer had a young couple of my acquaintance from North Carolina who were planning to spend the early summer backpacking through China and Japan, initially planning to skip Korea over. They happened to be highly interested in architecture, traditional and modern, coincidental to this discussion. I sent them advocacy for visiting Korea, and had our mutual friend back there show them my books and website as evidence. They agreed, changed their agenda, spent two weeks here, i advised them on where to go.
After they were back in America they reported to me that Korea was the highlight of their entire journey — in particular Changdeok Palace / Biwon, Gyeongju (Bulguk-sa & Seokkur-am), Hahoe Village and Buseok-sa (”mind-blowing” was the comment on that last). They said they wished they have a lot more time
for Korea or relative to the other two, and I don’t think they were just being polite, they’re pretty blunt young folks.
> the simple fact is, there is absolutely nothing distinct
> or unique about korea as a tourist destination. anything
> decent that you find in korea, you can find much better
> versions of it elsewhere in asia.
Sharp disagreement — above site-examples as evidence. Only perhaps in Kyoto Nara etc do you find sites that even equal those I mentioned, in all of East Asia. Crumbling ruins don’t count, different category….
> Nomad
> We have three kinds of expats here in Korea:
> 1. Those that proclaim Korea is heaven on earth
> (you know who you are)
That’s certainly not me — over the years i’ve experienced as much of Korea’s downsides as anyone, including the employment nightmares. I have at times indulged in talking about them at length, but mostly consciously choose to focus on the positive and interesting and improving aspects, so as not to become one of your #2s, or just go totally insane.
You really do have to have a hobby when you’re living here, something that draws your attention toward and activities deeply into at least one of the positive and interesting in improving aspects, so that you don’t become just another bitter alcoholic, relentlessly focused on what’s wrong with what’s all around you.
That’s probably the same living in any big-city or foreign country anywhere in the world — tho i readily admit that having a positive attitude while living in San Francisco or Amsterdam would be SO very much easier…
> Sonagi
> …a Korean traveling in our group declined to visit World
> Heritage site Borobodur, a 1,000-year-old massive stone
> monument in central Java because she had “seen lots of temples”
Well she was just a moron, never in short supply in the tourist hordes of this world, as Borobodur is one of the world’s great Buddhist sites — comparable to Korea’s greatest temples.
> As an experienced traveler to Thailand, Japan, and a former
> resident of China, I can’t agree with your dismissal of
> Buddhist temple architecture in those countries.
I wasn’t going for “dismissal” there, sorry if i gave that impression — i was saying that Korean temples are both more
varied and more attractive, in my judgment.
> There is tremendous variety in China and Japan, especially.
My experience of both of their Buddhist temples has been an impression of tedious repetition in artwork and arrangement, within particular sects or within a particular region. The
first few you see are really great, but then you tend to notice
that the next dozen are all following the same pattern…
That’s been my experience; it’s OK if we disagree.
> China boasts not only Buddhist temples, but also Daoist
> temples and Islamic mosques. Japan’s Shinto shrines are a
> serene contrast to its bustling Buddhist temples.
A bit unfair to bring in China’s cosmopolitan variety of
religions when we were just talking about Buddhist temples.
But OK, Korea has its Seowon, at least four of which offer extraordinarily charming architecture, and also provide “a
serene contrast to its bustling Buddhist temples”.
It’s a bit unfair to compare gigantic, vast, multi-cultural
multi-climate China as a whole to Korea as a tourist destination.
How about comparing South Korea with any one particular Province
of China…? by size/population — that would seem more fair
Or anyway, for how much of S Korea you can see in 2 weeks versus
how much of China you can see in 2 weeks, including all the
logistical questions/problems, I am comfortable asserting that
Korea stacks up very well, even that it is superior. For what
you can see/do in S Korea versus Japan for each $100 you have
in your pocket, I am comfortable asserting that Korea stacks up
very well, even that it is superior.
I have nothing against China and Japan and Southeast Asia, have
traveled all over them extensively (but much less in Japan, due
to its ridiculous costs for everything; just can’t afford it).
I’ve made four major trips to China, totaling 20 weeks of intensive sightseeing — don’t regret a day of it. I’m going back to China for a week in October, in fact, to see some more
really excellent stuff.
But Korea’s world-class attractions must be given their due…
Sanshinseon:
Any recommendations regarding visits to Buseok-sa? We will be visiting various other places associated my wife’s most illustrious ancestor between there and Yeongcheon, where his seowon was/is located, and Buseok-sa has been on my list for a long time.
Sperwer, would that be Oksan Seowon? A beautiful place….
Seosu Seowon is in the same neck of the woods as Buseoksa, in the shadow of Sobaeksan.
There’s Hahoe Village outside of Andong, but a jaded fellow like you probably already knows about it.
From Yeongju/Andong to Yeongcheon, you could pass by way of Juwangsan, famous mostly, it would seem, for its mineral-water chicken soup (pretty tasty) and the old Joseon-dynasty reservoir where Kim Ki-duk’s Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter…and Spring was shot.
Just some suggestions for a part of the country I’m fairly familiar with.
Oh, and just a few miles west of Oksan Seowon there’s a village whose name escapes me for the moment—Yangdong, I think—which like Hahoe has a lot of “country yangban” buildings intact.
Sewing:
Thanks for the pointers; they all sound like good suggestions. I have been to Hahoe, but we’ll probably stop by again. My wife’s ancestor’s seowon is “Imgo” in Imgo-myeon, Yeongcheon-si. Unfortunately, it’s only a modern restoration. The original was trashed during the Imjin Waeren and the original rebuild was destroyed by the Daewongun. It does house some authentic memorabilia though.
If someone comes to Korea and sticks around in Seoul the whole time I could see why they might come to view Korea as boring. However, that’s their own fault for staying in Seoul. Outside of a few token tourist tours there isn’t much to do in Seoul beyond the well-adopted-to-young-expat-arts of drinking and carousing. Of course every city has a few hidden gems but they are [HIDDEN], which means the chances of finding them on a tourist or short-term business trip are slim.
If you’re going to be here a while get out and see something in Korea (i.e. not Seoul). Personally, I’m a little partial to Japanese countryside, architecture, and what-not since that was my first exposure to Asia and I was ataken back by its beauty and variety but that doesn’t mean there aren’t some great things to do and see in Korea. Of course it doesn’t help that so much of the past has been destroyed here throughout history there’s more than enough to do if you are a visiting businessman, or for heavens sake, if you are a 4-day visitor. Don’t be ochlophobic.
> Sperwer
> Any recommendations regarding visits to Buseok-sa?
Buseok-sa is certainly one of your best places to visit…
There’s a big parking lot at the entrance with good restaurants
(sanchae-jeongshik & such) and tea-shops. An Information Center
is in the middle of the lot, facing the restaurants — worth a look — often the guy staffing it is Mr. Kim, retired school-teacher, good English and interesting stories to tell, knows a lot about the temple and its history. Tell them you’re a friend of mine for extra-good treatment; he has helped out several times when i was tour-guide for some group visiting there.
The temple is a km or more steep walk up the pathway. If you don’t want to do that — too hot, not enough time — there’s a little road from the back of the parking lot going into a Village area — by “back” of the lot i mean off to the right as you drive-in — drive up on the right side of the Fountain-Pond then through the orchard fields, bear left through another small village, and you come to a small parking lot — park there and the temple is just three minutes further up. If an official tries to stop you from using that little back-road, saying that you have “an appointment” up at the temple usually works.
If you get any chance to go in and meet the Abbot of the temple, Geun-il-seunim, definitely do it — he is a highly-enlightened monk, one of the real ones, a delight and honor to be around.
Check out the view from the Anyang-ru Pavilion, on a clear day it’s one of the best; several famous poets sat there and wrote about the view, their poems are on wooden boards around its inside. The main attraction is the Muryangsu-jeon Main Hall behind it of course — Korea’s oldest large building, and one of the handsomest Buddhas around.
The Samseong-gak (with San-shin) is a bit hidden, but very worth seeing, the paintings are classic — it’s down the stone stairway to the left of the “floating rock” itself.
Don’t neglect the Chosa-dang either, a five-minute walk up into the forest to the right of the Main Hall — check out the very small “1400-year-old” tree, object of veneration
You have to get out of the city and see what’s in the outer reaches. Take a train to Gyeonju, see some history.Korea has a lot of other places to see natural beauty, you just have to get off your ass and go.
Actually, Yangdong is to the east of Oksan Seowon rather than west. It’s in Gangdong-myeon, right on the border between Gyeongju and Pohang, while Oksan Seowon is just a bit outside the main part of Angang-eup.
Thanks, Zonath. Faulty memory.
Anyhow, now I understand what Sperwer had in mind when asking Sanshinseon for advice on visiting Buseoksa. By the way…
One of the most famous contemporary poets—the master of free verse, a fellow by the name of Marmot—featured an image of the view in his blog banner a few months back, if I recall correctly.
No one has mentioned the DMZ yet. Unbelievable. If there was one “tourist destination” that I was definitely looking forward to, the first one would have been that… the most heavily fortified border in the world splitting its own people in half. Who wouldn’t care to see that?
I didn’t even go to the JSA, but it was still nice to get out of Seoul for a little bit.
Your point is valid, but you’re the one who made the initial comparison. I was merely responding to it. Mile for mile, dollar for dollar, Korea has more to offer than either China or Japan, but the most important point is that each country has its own unique treasures and each is worth a visit. If I had an all-expenses paid one-month vacation to one of the three Asian countries, I’d pick Japan. If I had a couple thousand dollars and three months off, I’d choose China. If I had the same money and only two weeks to spare, I’d opt for Korea.
My sole complaint about Korea is the lack of historically and architecturally interesting neighborhoods. America is only 400 years old, yet some of our major cities, NYC, Chicago, Boston, and Washington, DC, are virtual outdoor architectural museums. I nearly wore out the soles of my shoes the first time I visited NYC and Boston. Beijing, Shanghai, Kuala Lumpur, and even staid Singapore are home to vibrant neighborhoods with distinct styles although Beijing’s hutongs are fast falling under the wrecking ball. I realize that much of Seoul’s historical architecture was lost while Seoul changed hands four times during the war. However, Germany managed to rebuild after being bombed to smithereens.
One difference I noticed between China and Korea is that China has not tried to erase visible evidence of its colonial past. In Korea, virtually every major Japanese colonial landmark has been razed; meanwhile, Chinese flags fly proudly from the masts atop the old European buildings along the Bund. The French concession is touted in tourist literature. The historical area of Changchun, seat of Pu Yi’s puppet Manchukuo government, is filled with buildings constructed by the Japanese.
Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore have also preserved many European colonial structures. In Kuala Lumpur, the beautiful Moorish-styled high court overlooks the Padang, where English fools used to play cricket in the tropical heat. The historical city of Melacca proudly shows off its colonial legacies from the Portuguese, Dutch, and British.
It seems contradictory for Korea to destroy physical evidence of Japanese colonialism yet at the same time fill pages of its history books with the 35-year experience.
It is also pathetic that officials in Seoul and Incheon have constructed artificial Chinatowns in order to attract tourists. In other countries, Chinatowns were established by the Chinese themselves.
I visted Busan only once and that was enough for me. If I missed something special about Korea’s second-largest city, please enlighten me, and don’t bother mentioning Haeundae Beach.
During my stay in China, I lived in Qingdao, which will host the sailing events during the 2008 Olympics. The local and national governments are pouring a lot of money into urban development, creating pedestrian malls with pretty street lamps, pleasant landscaping, and lots of benches, and revitalized an old run-down shopping area by turning all the buildings into giant murals. The entire exterior of each building is painted with a different theme. A huge 4-mile boardwalk has been constructed along the downtown waterfront. A Korean-Chinese friend, upon returning from her first trip to Korea, remarked, “In twenty years, Qingdao will be better than Seoul.” Former capital Suzhou gave itself a make-over by installing bus shelters with traditional tiled roofs and paving pedestrian malls with bricks arranged in pretty geometric patterns inspired by the pathways of Suzhou’s famous gardens, in pedestrian malls. Suzhou’s redevelopment efforts were commended by the national government and held up as a model for other cities.
Seoul has tremendous potential to be a world-class city. Its geographic location is outstanding, surrounded by mountains and straddling a wide river. It is a 600-year-old capital. It is clean and safe and has efficient public transport. It is not costly for the traveler. What Seoul needs is some imaginative urban planners who can work with developers and district officials to give local neighborhoods more distinct flavors and make them more attractive to locals and visitors looking for a pleasant place to stroll. Korean architects also need to creatively find ways to give modern buildings a touch of beautiful Korean traditional aesthetics. Two excellent examples are found in Shanghai: the Jin Mao Tower in Shanghai, shaped like a pagoda, and the China Merchants Tower, whose top resembles a Manchu imperial hat.
Thanks, Sanshinseon
sperwer,
i was just in the yeongju area a couple of months ago, and had one of the best times there that i’ve had in korea. yeongju has some great beef and grapes should be in season.
a good day is to visit buseoksa (don’t miss the caged shrub), the confucian temple, then drive through the valley going east to uljin. hit the seongyundongul caves (very impressive) which have been used to shelter soldiers and civilians during many invasions/wars. head south along the coast to baekam hot springs, take a dip, continue south to pohang (actually there’s a good little port city just before pohang) and get your crabs on. depending on the car you’re driving, you can have a lot of fun heading back up the coast and through the valley on the return trip.
I am not a fan of China. The place is dirty and the government is Fu#ked up. I have been to many cities and nothing begs me back. How can a people who have such a grand history, still be shitting in a hole in the ground? As backwards as Korea is I still think it has a lot to offer. Japan is a better pick for things to see. I prefer Japanese cuisine to main-land Chinese fare. To get good Chinese food you have to go to southern China or Taiwan. Beijing sucks. Back to Korea….. The most monoliths on the globe. Great natural scenery. I am not one of the Korea is paradise crowd. I think the place is in tatters politically. China? Spare me!
Thanks, Judge
Korea sucks. Its the most boring, dull, unimaginative place I’ve ever traveled to! Too many people, ugly apartments, crappy little ugly cars and rude people who spit everywhere!! I can’t wait to leave!!
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