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	<title>Comments on: Kyopos to Get &#8220;Special Orientation&#8221; to Korean Army</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: montclaire</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-48859</link>
		<dc:creator>montclaire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 02:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I heard that there were real-estate related benefits connected to serving in the army, and that this was why some kyopos do it, i.e. to help the family/extended family buy more land. Anyone know more of this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard that there were real-estate related benefits connected to serving in the army, and that this was why some kyopos do it, i.e. to help the family/extended family buy more land. Anyone know more of this?</p>
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		<title>By: Remort</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-48837</link>
		<dc:creator>Remort</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 22:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-48837</guid>
		<description>I can definitely understand why the Korean government views gyopo behavior and attiude as extremely detrimental to the ROK effort.  The male gyopos asked for this special attention themselves, with their smart-ass, cavalier attitudes when coming (back) to Korea thinking they are so smart and sneaky by having got around the military service requirement, and openly brag about out-smarting the Korean government.  Not only is this smart-ass attitude offensive to the South Koreans, but to all the other nations that sent their men-in-arms here to fight for Korea's freedom from the sneaky Japanese/North Koreans/Chinese, and Russians.

But folks, we ought to bear in mind that this is a totally different generation that never witnessed first hand the suffering its people endured during Japanese colonization, WWII, or Korean War.  I think most gyopos view South Korea as a total joke, and simply came here for a wife that wants to live the American dream back in the States, while escaping from the ever-prying eyes of their parents for a couple years back in America.

I see this &lt;B&gt;dose of reality&lt;/B&gt; definitely in order, perhaps it'll knock some of this smart-ass attitude off their cocky gyopo asses. The "test" ought to be whether or not the Korean government can prove you have Korean ancestory.  In which case, the gyopos ought to be forced to either do: 2 or 3 years of military service, or serve as clowns on these English shows on Korean TV for 10 years.

If the Roh administration and the rest of the communists get their way, Korea is ultimately going to have to fend for itself in any future conflicts.  The ROK has some serious decisions to make about its immediate future.

--Remort</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can definitely understand why the Korean government views gyopo behavior and attiude as extremely detrimental to the ROK effort.  The male gyopos asked for this special attention themselves, with their smart-ass, cavalier attitudes when coming (back) to Korea thinking they are so smart and sneaky by having got around the military service requirement, and openly brag about out-smarting the Korean government.  Not only is this smart-ass attitude offensive to the South Koreans, but to all the other nations that sent their men-in-arms here to fight for Korea&#8217;s freedom from the sneaky Japanese/North Koreans/Chinese, and Russians.</p>
<p>But folks, we ought to bear in mind that this is a totally different generation that never witnessed first hand the suffering its people endured during Japanese colonization, WWII, or Korean War.  I think most gyopos view South Korea as a total joke, and simply came here for a wife that wants to live the American dream back in the States, while escaping from the ever-prying eyes of their parents for a couple years back in America.</p>
<p>I see this <b>dose of reality</b> definitely in order, perhaps it&#8217;ll knock some of this smart-ass attitude off their cocky gyopo asses. The &#8220;test&#8221; ought to be whether or not the Korean government can prove you have Korean ancestory.  In which case, the gyopos ought to be forced to either do: 2 or 3 years of military service, or serve as clowns on these English shows on Korean TV for 10 years.</p>
<p>If the Roh administration and the rest of the communists get their way, Korea is ultimately going to have to fend for itself in any future conflicts.  The ROK has some serious decisions to make about its immediate future.</p>
<p>&#8211;Remort</p>
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		<title>By: YManchun</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-48821</link>
		<dc:creator>YManchun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-48821</guid>
		<description>There are some things I don't argee with ROKA system like sexual abuse and conscripting kyopos who've never set foot on Korea. 

However, physical discipline has to go on. Until those KATUSAs (Korean conscripts under US leadership, so they don't have to go through the horrors of Korean army) prove that they can be just disciplined as the ROKs, than I might just reconsider my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some things I don&#8217;t argee with ROKA system like sexual abuse and conscripting kyopos who&#8217;ve never set foot on Korea. </p>
<p>However, physical discipline has to go on. Until those KATUSAs (Korean conscripts under US leadership, so they don&#8217;t have to go through the horrors of Korean army) prove that they can be just disciplined as the ROKs, than I might just reconsider my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonath</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45274</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 19:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45274</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;A foreigner who never set foor in Korea couldn’t be married here, so the question simply doesn’t arise.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I was thinking more of the situation where a non-Korean married a Korean national overseas, and that marriage was reported on the family register (through Grandpa or the embassy -- take your pick).  Would they get issued a number automatically?  I would assume not, but who knows for sure?  At any rate, it's not that important at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A foreigner who never set foor in Korea couldn’t be married here, so the question simply doesn’t arise.</p></blockquote>
<p>I was thinking more of the situation where a non-Korean married a Korean national overseas, and that marriage was reported on the family register (through Grandpa or the embassy &#8212; take your pick).  Would they get issued a number automatically?  I would assume not, but who knows for sure?  At any rate, it&#8217;s not that important at all.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45270</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 14:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45270</guid>
		<description>...Under the old system....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;Under the old system&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45269</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 14:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45269</guid>
		<description>Yes, I too am registered as the spouse, with my wife as the head of household.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I too am registered as the spouse, with my wife as the head of household.</p>
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		<title>By: Sperwer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45264</link>
		<dc:creator>Sperwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 10:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45264</guid>
		<description>A foreigner who never set foor in Korea couldn't be married here, so the question simply doesn't arise. A foreigner who does marry here gets added to the Korean spouse's family register.  In the case of a foreign bridegroom that means that the Korean woman gets to set up her own family registry - perhaps the only circumstance in which women were permitted to do so? - and the groom is registered on hers.  Don't know how the recent changes to the hojuje system might affect this.  I know that I'm on my wife's family register.  And you are correct, you get to keep your foreign denizen number - which means no one who knows the system will ever mistake you for a Korean, even if you change your name and substitute a mug shot of one of the usual suspects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A foreigner who never set foor in Korea couldn&#8217;t be married here, so the question simply doesn&#8217;t arise. A foreigner who does marry here gets added to the Korean spouse&#8217;s family register.  In the case of a foreign bridegroom that means that the Korean woman gets to set up her own family registry - perhaps the only circumstance in which women were permitted to do so? - and the groom is registered on hers.  Don&#8217;t know how the recent changes to the hojuje system might affect this.  I know that I&#8217;m on my wife&#8217;s family register.  And you are correct, you get to keep your foreign denizen number - which means no one who knows the system will ever mistake you for a Korean, even if you change your name and substitute a mug shot of one of the usual suspects.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonath</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45263</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 09:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45263</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;By the way, are foreigners who end up being registered—by virtue of marriage, not blood, and not by becoming residents on visas—also assigned numbers that they may never no about?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wouldn't the answer to that depend on the foreigner?  After all, under the old &lt;i&gt;hojuje&lt;/i&gt; system, a wife is added to her husband's family register, and striken from her own.  So, a female foreigner marrying into a Korean family would presumibly be entered into her husband's register, while a male foreigner marrying into a Korean family would technically add his wife to his register (except for the fact that he has none).  Of course, I'm not entirely sure whether or not numbers were issued automatically in the case of a foreigner who's never set foot in Korea, while I'm fairly certain that for foreigners who get married in Korea, the alien ID number is used.

Of course, all this is pretty much moot now that the system has been more or less abolished (people still register, but don't have such a Byzantine system).  I would guess that nowadays, the parents of a child would have to register them as a Korean citizen, while the 'head of household' couldn't anymore.  Might serve to reduce the number of people who unwittingly enlist in the military just by visiting the old fatherland.  Don't quote me on any of this, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>By the way, are foreigners who end up being registered—by virtue of marriage, not blood, and not by becoming residents on visas—also assigned numbers that they may never no about?</p></blockquote>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t the answer to that depend on the foreigner?  After all, under the old <i>hojuje</i> system, a wife is added to her husband&#8217;s family register, and striken from her own.  So, a female foreigner marrying into a Korean family would presumibly be entered into her husband&#8217;s register, while a male foreigner marrying into a Korean family would technically add his wife to his register (except for the fact that he has none).  Of course, I&#8217;m not entirely sure whether or not numbers were issued automatically in the case of a foreigner who&#8217;s never set foot in Korea, while I&#8217;m fairly certain that for foreigners who get married in Korea, the alien ID number is used.</p>
<p>Of course, all this is pretty much moot now that the system has been more or less abolished (people still register, but don&#8217;t have such a Byzantine system).  I would guess that nowadays, the parents of a child would have to register them as a Korean citizen, while the &#8216;head of household&#8217; couldn&#8217;t anymore.  Might serve to reduce the number of people who unwittingly enlist in the military just by visiting the old fatherland.  Don&#8217;t quote me on any of this, though.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45240</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 04:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45240</guid>
		<description>"Whether you know about it or not is a function of how attentive you are."

Well, I think I would have noticed going through the process of obtaining a 외국인등록증!  I've never actually lived in the country&#8212;just visited repeatedly&#8212;so I guess I'm numberless.  A touring barbarian, rather than a resident barbarian.  I guess it doesn't matter anyhow, if such a number can't be used for signing up on Korean websites anyhow&#8212;the only practical use to which I'd be able to put it!  :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Whether you know about it or not is a function of how attentive you are.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, I think I would have noticed going through the process of obtaining a 외국인등록증!  I&#8217;ve never actually lived in the country&mdash;just visited repeatedly&mdash;so I guess I&#8217;m numberless.  A touring barbarian, rather than a resident barbarian.  I guess it doesn&#8217;t matter anyhow, if such a number can&#8217;t be used for signing up on Korean websites anyhow&mdash;the only practical use to which I&#8217;d be able to put it!  <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Sperwer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45238</link>
		<dc:creator>Sperwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 03:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/31/kyopos-to-get-orientation-to-korean-army/#comment-45238</guid>
		<description>Every foreigner granted the right to "sojourn" in Korea gets a 외국인등록층(Certificate of Alien Registration) w/ a number that is a composite of one's birthdate and an assigned series of digits.  Whether you know about it or not is a function of how attentive you are.  The Certificate also contains a record of your imigration status, the length of your permitted stay, your address and your mug shot.  Unlike Koreans' ID numbers, the foreigners' are generally useless for using the internet in Korea for shopping, banking etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every foreigner granted the right to &#8220;sojourn&#8221; in Korea gets a 외국인등록층(Certificate of Alien Registration) w/ a number that is a composite of one&#8217;s birthdate and an assigned series of digits.  Whether you know about it or not is a function of how attentive you are.  The Certificate also contains a record of your imigration status, the length of your permitted stay, your address and your mug shot.  Unlike Koreans&#8217; ID numbers, the foreigners&#8217; are generally useless for using the internet in Korea for shopping, banking etc.</p>
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