Comments on: Norks use divided families as bargaining chips http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/ Korea... in Blog Format Sun, 7 Sep 2008 04:21:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Sonagi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44014 Sonagi Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:04:14 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44014 1. <i>"Domestic firms are shielded from international as well as domestic competition; the result is chronic inefficiency, poor quality, limited product diversity, and underutilization of plants. "</i> source: http://countrystudies.us/north-korea/46.htm 2. I was facetiously making reference to Juche North Korea's dependence on foreign aid and trade, especially from China. While in the border town of Dandong, I watched the trade move across the bridge. Most of it was one-way, NK-bound trucks loaded with produce and large materials that looked like they were intended for infrastructure. In photos of the aftermath of the train explosion in Shinuiju a few years ago,there were on the ground children's backpacks that I recognized as made in China. DVD players and mobile phones are being smuggled in from China, too. The only made in NK goods I saw for sale in China were liquor, cigarettes, ginseng, and fake jade. Presumably the trucks laden with food and building materials were government aid, but I wonder how North Koreans are able to acquire electronic goods. 1. “Domestic firms are shielded from international as well as domestic competition; the result is chronic inefficiency, poor quality, limited product diversity, and underutilization of plants. “

source: http://countrystudies.us/north-korea/46.htm

2. I was facetiously making reference to Juche North Korea’s dependence on foreign aid and trade, especially from China. While in the border town of Dandong, I watched the trade move across the bridge. Most of it was one-way, NK-bound trucks loaded with produce and large materials that looked like they were intended for infrastructure. In photos of the aftermath of the train explosion in Shinuiju a few years ago,there were on the ground children’s backpacks that I recognized as made in China. DVD players and mobile phones are being smuggled in from China, too. The only made in NK goods I saw for sale in China were liquor, cigarettes, ginseng, and fake jade. Presumably the trucks laden with food and building materials were government aid, but I wonder how North Koreans are able to acquire electronic goods.

]]> By: MrChips http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44009 MrChips Fri, 21 Jul 2006 01:17:07 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44009 Sonagi said: 1. "The goods donated to the South in 1984 probably were probably representative of what was available then to residents of Pyongyang and other big cities." 2. "North Koreans eat better and dress better than they did 20 years ago." Can you back up these two statements or is there a caveat you would like to include? I'm skeptical about both statements as they are currently worded... Sonagi said:

1. “The goods donated to the South in 1984 probably were probably representative of what was available then to residents of Pyongyang and other big cities.”

2. “North Koreans eat better and dress better than they did 20 years ago.”

Can you back up these two statements or is there a caveat you would like to include? I’m skeptical about both statements as they are currently worded…

]]> By: Sonagi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44008 Sonagi Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:30:33 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44008 I wonder how useless the flour and fabrics were to the North Koreans. The goods donated to the South in 1984 probably were probably representative of what was available then to residents of Pyongyang and other big cities. Thanks to superior Chinese imports, North Koreans eat better and dress better than they did 20 years ago. I wonder how useless the flour and fabrics were to the North Koreans. The goods donated to the South in 1984 probably were probably representative of what was available then to residents of Pyongyang and other big cities. Thanks to superior Chinese imports, North Koreans eat better and dress better than they did 20 years ago.

]]> By: JiMong http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44006 JiMong Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:42:49 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44006 Ah I remember the flood in 1984,,, My family received these "useless crap" from NK. I still remember how much my mom was displeased by these poor quality craps. That she said the packs of NK flour can't even used for "Kal-Gook-Soo or Soo-Jea-Bi" and the donated NK fabrics merely could used as Heng-Joo or Girl-Rae (cleaning towel) because of poor quality. My father was joked about the ex-president Chun that he almost shrink the NK economy by accepting this donation. It was around Chu-seok time in 1984. Ah I remember the flood in 1984,,,

My family received these “useless crap” from NK. I still remember how much my mom was displeased by these poor quality craps. That she said the packs of NK flour can’t even used for “Kal-Gook-Soo or Soo-Jea-Bi” and the donated NK fabrics merely could used as Heng-Joo or Girl-Rae (cleaning towel) because of poor quality. My father was joked about the ex-president Chun that he almost shrink the NK economy by accepting this donation. It was around Chu-seok time in 1984.

]]> By: snow http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44002 snow Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:31:15 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44002 As a friend noted "nobody screws a Korean like another Korean does". And some in the South are worried they'll get a raw deal in an FTA with the US. Truly pathetic. As a friend noted “nobody screws a Korean like another Korean does”. And some in the South are worried they’ll get a raw deal in an FTA with the US. Truly pathetic.

]]> By: snow http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44001 snow Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:28:06 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44001 Wow, the North is saying "bend over" once again. For all the billions that have flown into the fat dwarfs greedy mitts, now there won't even be any family reunions. About all one could say in defense of such one-sided giving is 'well, at least there hasn't been a war'. So in other words, it is absolutely clear that all the free goodies amount to appeasement money. Once the appeasement money stops, even temporarily, the North shuts down almost the only token 'benefit' it offers the South. I truly hope to see KJI swinging from a lamppost some day. Wow, the North is saying “bend over” once again. For all the billions that have flown into the fat dwarfs greedy mitts, now there won’t even be any family reunions. About all one could say in defense of such one-sided giving is ‘well, at least there hasn’t been a war’. So in other words, it is absolutely clear that all the free goodies amount to appeasement money. Once the appeasement money stops, even temporarily, the North shuts down almost the only token ‘benefit’ it offers the South.

I truly hope to see KJI swinging from a lamppost some day.

]]> By: baduk http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44000 baduk Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:25:35 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-44000 In ten years, there will be no family to meet. Two countries have been separated since 1946. That is whopping 60 years. Assuming ten years old when separated, these people are in their 70s. And, in ten years, 80s and dying out. No ties between two Koreas in ten years. In ten years, there will be no family to meet. Two countries have been separated since 1946. That is whopping 60 years.

Assuming ten years old when separated, these people are in their 70s. And, in ten years, 80s and dying out.

No ties between two Koreas in ten years.

]]> By: Brendon Carr http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-43992 Brendon Carr Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:50:09 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-43992 The earliest North Korea flood aid to South Korea that I can remember and verify from the New York Times archives is from September 1984. It presaged a warming of relations that went awry when the Soviets shot down that KAL airliner. Then -- you and I were probably both here for this -- in September 1990 there was that incredible deluge and flood aid was again dispatched (but wasn't Roh Tae-Woo still in office in September 1990?). It was hundreds of trucks (whether they were crossing the DMZ like Chung Ju-Yung's cows, or off-loaded from sea transport, I don't recall), a sight which was heartwarming at the time. A Korean reporter friend of mine says that the North Korean trucks were full of useless crap, a fact which prompted much complaining after the mist cleared from everyone's eyes. I'm a little busy to do more research on this, but 1984 puts the lie to your "just once" thesis. I agree that later aid probably was useless too, but am not so sure it would have been recycled Southern goods. After all, the South sends useful things. The earliest North Korea flood aid to South Korea that I can remember and verify from the New York Times archives is from September 1984. It presaged a warming of relations that went awry when the Soviets shot down that KAL airliner. Then — you and I were probably both here for this — in September 1990 there was that incredible deluge and flood aid was again dispatched (but wasn’t Roh Tae-Woo still in office in September 1990?). It was hundreds of trucks (whether they were crossing the DMZ like Chung Ju-Yung’s cows, or off-loaded from sea transport, I don’t recall), a sight which was heartwarming at the time. A Korean reporter friend of mine says that the North Korean trucks were full of useless crap, a fact which prompted much complaining after the mist cleared from everyone’s eyes. I’m a little busy to do more research on this, but 1984 puts the lie to your “just once” thesis.

I agree that later aid probably was useless too, but am not so sure it would have been recycled Southern goods. After all, the South sends useful things.

]]> By: Andy Jackson http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-43989 Andy Jackson Thu, 20 Jul 2006 07:17:21 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-43989 Brendan, I am aware of one time the South took aid from the North once (I think during the Kim Young-sam administration) although the North offered several times before then. I am ready to be corrected. Obviously anything the North offered after 1997 would have just been recycled ROK aid, so those four times must have been between 1992 and 1997. Curzon, Thanks for the love. Gillian, A link and a brief quote will work just fine. Brendan,
I am aware of one time the South took aid from the North once (I think during the Kim Young-sam administration) although the North offered several times before then. I am ready to be corrected.

Obviously anything the North offered after 1997 would have just been recycled ROK aid, so those four times must have been between 1992 and 1997.

Curzon,
Thanks for the love.

Gillian,
A link and a brief quote will work just fine.

]]> By: Gillian http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-43988 Gillian Thu, 20 Jul 2006 07:03:16 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/20/norks-use-divided-families-as-a-bargaining-chip/#comment-43988 This is in the papers today also. I am predicting that the North will not have the Yanks to kick around much longer, at least where the South is concerned... None-too-soon for my taste. This is from the Korea Times, but there are articles in the Chosun and Joongang also... Washington Plans to Transfer Wartime Command by 2009 By Jung Sung-ki Staff Reporter The United States plans to hand over operational control of South Korean armed forces during wartime to Seoul in about four years, earlier than Seoul's target year of 2012, a government source said on Wednesday. During the ninth Security Policy Initiative (SPI) meeting in Seoul last week, the U.S. delegation notified the government of the plan, citing Seoul's increased military capabilities, the source said on condition of anonymity. Critics, however, are worried that the early transfer of wartime command could provoke a security vacuum on the Korean Peninsula, which is still volatile due to North Korea's missile and nuclear threats. They pointed out that it is virtually impossible for the South Korean military to secure independent surveillance and command systems by 2009 despite its ambitious reform plan to modernize its troops. The Defense Ministry declined to confirm the report, saying the final results of negotiations on the command transfer will be announced during the Security Consultative Meeting (SCM), an annual meeting of defense ministers, slated for October in Washington D.C. Since last October, Seoul and Washington have accelerated talks over the transfer of wartime command and command rearrangements. Unlike operational command in peacetime, that of wartime has been under the ROK-U.S. Combined Forces Command (CFC), led by a four-star U.S. general, since the 1950-53 Korean War. Last week, Gen. B. B. Bell, chief of the CFC, unveiled a joint plan that the two allies would create two independent commands with U.S. troops in an air- and naval-centric supporting role after Seoul regains the authority to unilaterally control its forces during wartime. Some military sources expressed concern whether the U.S. decision is an expression of its discontent over the latest developments regarding the stalled U.S. base turnover process and lack of U.S. Air Force's training sites here. ``Some media said Washington is eager to keep its troops on the peninsula because of South Korea's geopolitical and strategic importance. But that's not the case as far as I know. I was told several times by senior U.S. military officers that the U.S. military is ready to give back wartime command at any time,'' an informed source told The Korea Times, asking not to be named. Seoul and Washington have been at odds for a year over negotiations regarding the environmental cleanup at U.S. bases to be returned to South Korea under a 2004 deal. During the latest SPI talks last Friday, South Korea accepted 15 out of the 59 U.S. bases, but the U.S. side is reportedly unsatisfied with the results. The U.S. delegation also urged Seoul to come up with measures to secure an air-to-surface firing range for U.S. aircrew here, or remove its air forces from the peninsula, according to ministry officials. gallantjung@hotmail.com 07-19-2006 17:54 This is in the papers today also. I am predicting that the North will not have the Yanks to kick around much longer, at least where the South is concerned… None-too-soon for my taste.
This is from the Korea Times, but there are articles in the Chosun and Joongang also…

Washington Plans to Transfer Wartime Command by 2009

By Jung Sung-ki
Staff Reporter

The United States plans to hand over operational control of South Korean armed forces during wartime to Seoul in about four years, earlier than Seoul’s target year of 2012, a government source said on Wednesday.

During the ninth Security Policy Initiative (SPI) meeting in Seoul last week, the U.S. delegation notified the government of the plan, citing Seoul’s increased military capabilities, the source said on condition of anonymity.

Critics, however, are worried that the early transfer of wartime command could provoke a security vacuum on the Korean Peninsula, which is still volatile due to North Korea’s missile and nuclear threats.

They pointed out that it is virtually impossible for the South Korean military to secure independent surveillance and command systems by 2009 despite its ambitious reform plan to modernize its troops.

The Defense Ministry declined to confirm the report, saying the final results of negotiations on the command transfer will be announced during the Security Consultative Meeting (SCM), an annual meeting of defense ministers, slated for October in Washington D.C.

Since last October, Seoul and Washington have accelerated talks over the transfer of wartime command and command rearrangements. Unlike operational command in peacetime, that of wartime has been under the ROK-U.S. Combined Forces Command (CFC), led by a four-star U.S. general, since the 1950-53 Korean War.

Last week, Gen. B. B. Bell, chief of the CFC, unveiled a joint plan that the two allies would create two independent commands with U.S. troops in an air- and naval-centric supporting role after Seoul regains the authority to unilaterally control its forces during wartime.

Some military sources expressed concern whether the U.S. decision is an expression of its discontent over the latest developments regarding the stalled U.S. base turnover process and lack of U.S. Air Force’s training sites here.

“Some media said Washington is eager to keep its troops on the peninsula because of South Korea’s geopolitical and strategic importance. But that’s not the case as far as I know. I was told several times by senior U.S. military officers that the U.S. military is ready to give back wartime command at any time,” an informed source told The Korea Times, asking not to be named.

Seoul and Washington have been at odds for a year over negotiations regarding the environmental cleanup at U.S. bases to be returned to South Korea under a 2004 deal. During the latest SPI talks last Friday, South Korea accepted 15 out of the 59 U.S. bases, but the U.S. side is reportedly unsatisfied with the results.

The U.S. delegation also urged Seoul to come up with measures to secure an air-to-surface firing range for U.S. aircrew here, or remove its air forces from the peninsula, according to ministry officials.

gallantjung@hotmail.com
07-19-2006 17:54

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