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	<title>Comments on: Lankov on the history of Yongsan</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: 1940&#8217;s Yongsan &#171;</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-53182</link>
		<dc:creator>1940&#8217;s Yongsan &#171;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-53182</guid>
		<description>[...] Great link here from the Marmot&#8217;s Hole.  Anyone who has been stationed in Korea and particularly Yongsan should see this photograph of Yongsan in the 1940&#8217;s.  Pretty incredible how much things have changed in 60 years. Make sure you also check out the article by probably the top Korea scholar, Andrei Lankov which describes in detail the history of Yongsan.       &#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Great link here from the Marmot&#8217;s Hole.  Anyone who has been stationed in Korea and particularly Yongsan should see this photograph of Yongsan in the 1940&#8217;s.  Pretty incredible how much things have changed in 60 years. Make sure you also check out the article by probably the top Korea scholar, Andrei Lankov which describes in detail the history of Yongsan.       &nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43777</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43777</guid>
		<description>lirelou,

You know more than I do about Kim IlSung.  However, the literatures on him are questionable at best and many are intentionally changed to bring him into idol status.

SKs are taught KIS was not the general who fought the Japanese but rather a Soviet lieutenant who had been groomed to be the puppet he later became.

I do believe this deserves some weight because Russia has always been interest in taking over Korea.  USSR had planted spies and influenced members of Korean Exiled Government in Sanghai.  Communist members of this influential body were in direct contact with USSR.  USSR had, I believe, a definite plan about post-Japan era Korea as it had a plan for China.  At the time, USSR as the premier Communist country had been planning the Worldwide Communist Brotherhood.  Korea was a part of their grand scheme.

One thing is clear.  KIS spoke fluent Russian and had direct contact with Cremlin.  He might have been a member of special unit, even KGB.  In any case, he was not left to "fight out" but rather had a special favor.  I do not believe Communists could be that flexible in anything they do.

The more facts will come out once NK collapses or be taken over by the free world.  However, if China maintains its grip, which I think will be for a long, long time, the truth about KIS will never be known.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lirelou,</p>
<p>You know more than I do about Kim IlSung.  However, the literatures on him are questionable at best and many are intentionally changed to bring him into idol status.</p>
<p>SKs are taught KIS was not the general who fought the Japanese but rather a Soviet lieutenant who had been groomed to be the puppet he later became.</p>
<p>I do believe this deserves some weight because Russia has always been interest in taking over Korea.  USSR had planted spies and influenced members of Korean Exiled Government in Sanghai.  Communist members of this influential body were in direct contact with USSR.  USSR had, I believe, a definite plan about post-Japan era Korea as it had a plan for China.  At the time, USSR as the premier Communist country had been planning the Worldwide Communist Brotherhood.  Korea was a part of their grand scheme.</p>
<p>One thing is clear.  KIS spoke fluent Russian and had direct contact with Cremlin.  He might have been a member of special unit, even KGB.  In any case, he was not left to &#8220;fight out&#8221; but rather had a special favor.  I do not believe Communists could be that flexible in anything they do.</p>
<p>The more facts will come out once NK collapses or be taken over by the free world.  However, if China maintains its grip, which I think will be for a long, long time, the truth about KIS will never be known.</p>
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		<title>By: lirelou</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43750</link>
		<dc:creator>lirelou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 01:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43750</guid>
		<description>Mr. Chips. Bulgasari's link to Boose's article is as good as you can get on the Korean division issue. Great link!

Baduk, Il-sung is, of course, a pseudonym. There were six Kim Il-sungs resisting the Japanese in Manchuria in the 1930s. Kim Il-sung the "founder" was in fact the commander of an "Army" of Chinese-Korean band of up to 200 guerrillas. This is a respectable accomplishment, despite the fact that was nothing more than an infantry company in strength, but actual strength varied based upon both the combat and political situations. Il-sung's "Army" was a component of the North-East Anti-Japanese United Army, or AJUA, which had been organized by the CCP on orders from Stalin (as head of the COMINTERN). After 1939 a combination of Soviet machinations (the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact) and Japanese strategy (win the guerrillas over in lieu of the previous scorched earth approach) undercut the AJUA and caused both heavy losses and defections, among the latter KIS's deputy. Having failed as a guerrilla, KIS slipped into the Soviet Union in Mar 1941, where he and his band were placed in detention. In Apr 1941 the Soviets signed a non-aggression pact with the Japanese ssimilar to the one they had with the Germans. Then on 22 Jun 41, the Germans invaded the Soviet Union. With Stalin's regime fighting for survival, he desperately needed some means to keep an eye on the Japanese, to ensure he wasn't going to have to fight a two-front war. Orders were sent out to raise an independent unit to conduct such operations, and the result was the 88th Independent Infantry Brigade, often referred to as the 88th Sniper Bde. Among those recruited into this unit was Kim Il-sung and his handful of former partisans. By 1945 he was a captain commanding a battalion within this brigade which likely specialized in cross-border reconnaissance operations behind Japanese lines. This means he recruited, trained, equiped, and launched reconnaissance teams whose job was to keep an eye on the Japanese. He did this for 4 1/2 years, and once source alleges he himself actually participated in between 2 to 5 trips behind the lines. When the war ended, Il-sung was not important enough to be included in the first wave of Soviet-Koreans. He did not arrive back in Korean until September 1945, when he landed at Wonsan with the Korean remnants of his battalion. He promptly made his way to Pyongyang where he was presented by the Russians to the Koreans as the "great resistance leader, general Kim", based upon a company level firefight he had had with the Japanese that had entered into Korean folklore. 

To make this short, my own reading of Kim Il-sung is that he was not the pre-annointed leader fo the future Korean communist state when the Russians arrived in 1945. Rather, he was one among many contenders. Certainly there were Korean communists and leftists with far greater bona-fides. My reading is that the Russians wanted a Korean soviet state, and they were willing to back whomever it was that the rest of the Korean "progressives" would follow. By 1948, holding the twin reins of internal security and national defence, the strongest candidate was Kim Il-sung. All he had to do was out-maneuver or kill off his rivals, which he managed to do quite well in the following years.

Bottom line: KIS did fight the Japanese. He was NOT the inventor of the "fish in the sea" guerrilla approach, and eventually failed as a guerrilla, but he did have four and a half years of cross-border special operations experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Chips. Bulgasari&#8217;s link to Boose&#8217;s article is as good as you can get on the Korean division issue. Great link!</p>
<p>Baduk, Il-sung is, of course, a pseudonym. There were six Kim Il-sungs resisting the Japanese in Manchuria in the 1930s. Kim Il-sung the &#8220;founder&#8221; was in fact the commander of an &#8220;Army&#8221; of Chinese-Korean band of up to 200 guerrillas. This is a respectable accomplishment, despite the fact that was nothing more than an infantry company in strength, but actual strength varied based upon both the combat and political situations. Il-sung&#8217;s &#8220;Army&#8221; was a component of the North-East Anti-Japanese United Army, or AJUA, which had been organized by the CCP on orders from Stalin (as head of the COMINTERN). After 1939 a combination of Soviet machinations (the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact) and Japanese strategy (win the guerrillas over in lieu of the previous scorched earth approach) undercut the AJUA and caused both heavy losses and defections, among the latter KIS&#8217;s deputy. Having failed as a guerrilla, KIS slipped into the Soviet Union in Mar 1941, where he and his band were placed in detention. In Apr 1941 the Soviets signed a non-aggression pact with the Japanese ssimilar to the one they had with the Germans. Then on 22 Jun 41, the Germans invaded the Soviet Union. With Stalin&#8217;s regime fighting for survival, he desperately needed some means to keep an eye on the Japanese, to ensure he wasn&#8217;t going to have to fight a two-front war. Orders were sent out to raise an independent unit to conduct such operations, and the result was the 88th Independent Infantry Brigade, often referred to as the 88th Sniper Bde. Among those recruited into this unit was Kim Il-sung and his handful of former partisans. By 1945 he was a captain commanding a battalion within this brigade which likely specialized in cross-border reconnaissance operations behind Japanese lines. This means he recruited, trained, equiped, and launched reconnaissance teams whose job was to keep an eye on the Japanese. He did this for 4 1/2 years, and once source alleges he himself actually participated in between 2 to 5 trips behind the lines. When the war ended, Il-sung was not important enough to be included in the first wave of Soviet-Koreans. He did not arrive back in Korean until September 1945, when he landed at Wonsan with the Korean remnants of his battalion. He promptly made his way to Pyongyang where he was presented by the Russians to the Koreans as the &#8220;great resistance leader, general Kim&#8221;, based upon a company level firefight he had had with the Japanese that had entered into Korean folklore. </p>
<p>To make this short, my own reading of Kim Il-sung is that he was not the pre-annointed leader fo the future Korean communist state when the Russians arrived in 1945. Rather, he was one among many contenders. Certainly there were Korean communists and leftists with far greater bona-fides. My reading is that the Russians wanted a Korean soviet state, and they were willing to back whomever it was that the rest of the Korean &#8220;progressives&#8221; would follow. By 1948, holding the twin reins of internal security and national defence, the strongest candidate was Kim Il-sung. All he had to do was out-maneuver or kill off his rivals, which he managed to do quite well in the following years.</p>
<p>Bottom line: KIS did fight the Japanese. He was NOT the inventor of the &#8220;fish in the sea&#8221; guerrilla approach, and eventually failed as a guerrilla, but he did have four and a half years of cross-border special operations experience.</p>
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		<title>By: kushibo</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43744</link>
		<dc:creator>kushibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43744</guid>
		<description>There are still many homes, maybe in the hundreds still, from the 1940s or earlier that still exist near the northern border of that base. Many of them are reasonabley well maintained and probably don't look much different from how they did when the Samgakchi photo was taken. 

In the city block north of Camp Coiner, going into the neighborhood where the &lt;a href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/30/discussion-euro-american-war-over-yongsan-foreign-school/#comment-41768" rel="nofollow"&gt;abandon girls' school&lt;/a&gt; Brendon and I have both suggested for an affordable alternative international residents' school, you can find many such buildings. Going north, the farther up the hill you go, the more you'll find. I lived in one of these, built in 1935. It was well-built and had a lot of space. The downstairs was also used as an office for a fledgling company, while the small yard was big enough for a menagerie of canines and felines. Sadly, many or most may not survive the attempts to redevelop the area, as Yongsan land prices are becoming too valuable for builders to pass up. My 1935 home has already been razed, which is why I bought an apartment. Near Ichon Station, west of Gate 17, are a bunch of towers going up where a collection of 1940s-era buildings or older once stood. Some were well-maintained and some weren't. The sad fact of such older housing is that many owners feel that the place will someday soon be "redeveloped" so why pour tens of millions of won into maintaining the home now? This thinking is more acute when the owners themselves don't live there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are still many homes, maybe in the hundreds still, from the 1940s or earlier that still exist near the northern border of that base. Many of them are reasonabley well maintained and probably don&#8217;t look much different from how they did when the Samgakchi photo was taken. </p>
<p>In the city block north of Camp Coiner, going into the neighborhood where the <a href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/30/discussion-euro-american-war-over-yongsan-foreign-school/#comment-41768" rel="nofollow">abandon girls&#8217; school</a> Brendon and I have both suggested for an affordable alternative international residents&#8217; school, you can find many such buildings. Going north, the farther up the hill you go, the more you&#8217;ll find. I lived in one of these, built in 1935. It was well-built and had a lot of space. The downstairs was also used as an office for a fledgling company, while the small yard was big enough for a menagerie of canines and felines. Sadly, many or most may not survive the attempts to redevelop the area, as Yongsan land prices are becoming too valuable for builders to pass up. My 1935 home has already been razed, which is why I bought an apartment. Near Ichon Station, west of Gate 17, are a bunch of towers going up where a collection of 1940s-era buildings or older once stood. Some were well-maintained and some weren&#8217;t. The sad fact of such older housing is that many owners feel that the place will someday soon be &#8220;redeveloped&#8221; so why pour tens of millions of won into maintaining the home now? This thinking is more acute when the owners themselves don&#8217;t live there.</p>
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		<title>By: gbnhj</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43660</link>
		<dc:creator>gbnhj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 02:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43660</guid>
		<description>Thanks H&#38;T...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks H&amp;T&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Korea Liberator &#187; A Remarkable Photo Gallery</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43653</link>
		<dc:creator>The Korea Liberator &#187; A Remarkable Photo Gallery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43653</guid>
		<description>[...] I found this gallery by following the Marmot&#8217;s link to this great old picture of Samgakji. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I found this gallery by following the Marmot&#8217;s link to this great old picture of Samgakji. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bluejives</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43652</link>
		<dc:creator>bluejives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43652</guid>
		<description>Baduk is the proto-typical, brainwashed 한인 장로교회 zombie.

Where in the world did so-called Korean Christians come up with the idea that because Korea sends out so many missionaries, Korea will be blessed? 

I've heard this ridiculous notion repeated so many times it's like a mantra now! I think it is an apostasy and runs counter to the doctrine of grace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baduk is the proto-typical, brainwashed 한인 장로교회 zombie.</p>
<p>Where in the world did so-called Korean Christians come up with the idea that because Korea sends out so many missionaries, Korea will be blessed? </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard this ridiculous notion repeated so many times it&#8217;s like a mantra now! I think it is an apostasy and runs counter to the doctrine of grace.</p>
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		<title>By: bulgasari</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43650</link>
		<dc:creator>bulgasari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43650</guid>
		<description>There's an interesting essay about the decision to divide Korea &lt;a href="http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/1995/boose.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. It indicates precedent existed for the division between US and USSR occupation forces, but that it was a late final decision as to exactly where that dividing line might be.

It is, indeed, too bad Stilwell was not involved (Chiang Kai-shek thought he might be involved in a landing on the Chinese "mainland" and did all he could to stop him from having any part in it) - whatever one thinks of Bruce Cumings, his assertion that Korea got the occupation meant for Japan (with specialists on Japan who knew nothing about Korea sent to work there) seems to have hit the mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an interesting essay about the decision to divide Korea <a href="http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/1995/boose.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a>. It indicates precedent existed for the division between US and USSR occupation forces, but that it was a late final decision as to exactly where that dividing line might be.</p>
<p>It is, indeed, too bad Stilwell was not involved (Chiang Kai-shek thought he might be involved in a landing on the Chinese &#8220;mainland&#8221; and did all he could to stop him from having any part in it) - whatever one thinks of Bruce Cumings, his assertion that Korea got the occupation meant for Japan (with specialists on Japan who knew nothing about Korea sent to work there) seems to have hit the mark.</p>
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		<title>By: MrChips</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43648</link>
		<dc:creator>MrChips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43648</guid>
		<description>wow, now that's service!  I don't suppose anyone has a 1910 yongsan picture ready to pull out of their hat?  

Lirelou, just a question on details:  Are you saying the decision to divide Korea in general or specifically at the 38th parallel was decided prior to USSR's entry into the war?  (Some division had been tentatively agreed to for sure.)  Their declaration of war on Japan was August 8th, the suggestion to divide the peninsula at the 38th parallel was made on August 11th, the Soviets acknowledgement came on August 12th and their first 2 divisions entered North Korea on August 14th. 

Nevertheless, as many of their soldiers were indeed Korean and those divisions' leadership had extensive exposure to North Korean guerilla fighters they were far more prepared to deal with the populace than their US counterparts.  

Echo the sentiments about Stilwell.  He only lived for another year but that one year could have made a significant difference in the shape of the NE Asian political landscape.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, now that&#8217;s service!  I don&#8217;t suppose anyone has a 1910 yongsan picture ready to pull out of their hat?  </p>
<p>Lirelou, just a question on details:  Are you saying the decision to divide Korea in general or specifically at the 38th parallel was decided prior to USSR&#8217;s entry into the war?  (Some division had been tentatively agreed to for sure.)  Their declaration of war on Japan was August 8th, the suggestion to divide the peninsula at the 38th parallel was made on August 11th, the Soviets acknowledgement came on August 12th and their first 2 divisions entered North Korea on August 14th. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, as many of their soldiers were indeed Korean and those divisions&#8217; leadership had extensive exposure to North Korean guerilla fighters they were far more prepared to deal with the populace than their US counterparts.  </p>
<p>Echo the sentiments about Stilwell.  He only lived for another year but that one year could have made a significant difference in the shape of the NE Asian political landscape.</p>
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		<title>By: hardyandtiny</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43639</link>
		<dc:creator>hardyandtiny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/14/lankov-on-the-history-of-yongsan/#comment-43639</guid>
		<description>A friend of mine scanned the Samgakchi photograph and I posted it on a discussion forum a couple of years ago. The photo is Yongsan base in 1948. The photograph used to hang on a wall in the history office at the Yongsan base.  It was too large for the scanner so he scanned it in two parts and asked me to paste them together. If you look closely you can see the slice.  I tried many times to get a perfect match but there was something odd about the two scans and I just couldn't get it. I have the original scans. I'll try to do it again and then send it to Marmot.
The slice is clear on the distant Itaewon hill near the present Hyatt hotel and at the Samgakchi rotary. The slice is just to the left of center.

the photo is captioned:
Photo by US Army - 24 September 1948
HQ, 7th US Infantry Division, 31st and 32nd Infantry Regiments
Samgak-Ji, Yongsan, Seoul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A friend of mine scanned the Samgakchi photograph and I posted it on a discussion forum a couple of years ago. The photo is Yongsan base in 1948. The photograph used to hang on a wall in the history office at the Yongsan base.  It was too large for the scanner so he scanned it in two parts and asked me to paste them together. If you look closely you can see the slice.  I tried many times to get a perfect match but there was something odd about the two scans and I just couldn&#8217;t get it. I have the original scans. I&#8217;ll try to do it again and then send it to Marmot.<br />
The slice is clear on the distant Itaewon hill near the present Hyatt hotel and at the Samgakchi rotary. The slice is just to the left of center.</p>
<p>the photo is captioned:<br />
Photo by US Army - 24 September 1948<br />
HQ, 7th US Infantry Division, 31st and 32nd Infantry Regiments<br />
Samgak-Ji, Yongsan, Seoul</p>
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