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	<title>Comments on: wc06: The Final: Italy v. France</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: dissidentdave</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42910</link>
		<dc:creator>dissidentdave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42910</guid>
		<description>mrchips, thanks for your deferential use of all lower case letters.  

i suppose that we each have our version of what makes a player so great.  while it is true that "marco goalo" was a supremely gifted scorer, and he did define clutch, it is my feeling that merely being a scorer does not a player of his generation make.  if that were the case, ruud van nistelrooij would be one of the greatest players ever.  

the reason i hold zidane in such high regard is how he was able to command his teammates and make them better, much as michael jordan was able to do when he played in the NBA.  zidane could control a match without having to score because he so often had the presence of mind to put his teammates in position to score.  he was a leader and, often, as went zizou, so went france.

i had a discussion recently with a roundtable of friends about what makes a player great and in a class separate from other players--as a great player for country or as a great player for club?  

my assertion was simple: the two greatest players in history--pele and maradona--are more remembered by football fans for their exploits for country than they are for club performances. and that's not to say they weren't in a class by themselves while playing for club, it's just that players are more recognised for what they do on the international stage than for what they do at club level.  sure, maradona and pele were loved by the fans of the clubs for whom they respectively played, and they had dynamite careers, but very few, if any, of their club performances were on an international stage because that's not the nature of club football.

admittedly, van basten had rotten luck with injuries, without which his goalscoring numbers would be even more phenomenal and which perhaps also contributes to his not being recognised more readily as a once-in-a-generation type of player.

in the end, such proclamations, aside from ones made about pele or maradona, are usually subjective and mine about zizou certainly are. i guess it might also boil down to this: who, from the last decade and a half, would i want to start a team with?  my answer would be zizou, without question.  your answer might be different--and ten others commenting here might each have ten different answers, as well.  such is the nature of sports...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mrchips, thanks for your deferential use of all lower case letters.  </p>
<p>i suppose that we each have our version of what makes a player so great.  while it is true that &#8220;marco goalo&#8221; was a supremely gifted scorer, and he did define clutch, it is my feeling that merely being a scorer does not a player of his generation make.  if that were the case, ruud van nistelrooij would be one of the greatest players ever.  </p>
<p>the reason i hold zidane in such high regard is how he was able to command his teammates and make them better, much as michael jordan was able to do when he played in the NBA.  zidane could control a match without having to score because he so often had the presence of mind to put his teammates in position to score.  he was a leader and, often, as went zizou, so went france.</p>
<p>i had a discussion recently with a roundtable of friends about what makes a player great and in a class separate from other players&#8211;as a great player for country or as a great player for club?  </p>
<p>my assertion was simple: the two greatest players in history&#8211;pele and maradona&#8211;are more remembered by football fans for their exploits for country than they are for club performances. and that&#8217;s not to say they weren&#8217;t in a class by themselves while playing for club, it&#8217;s just that players are more recognised for what they do on the international stage than for what they do at club level.  sure, maradona and pele were loved by the fans of the clubs for whom they respectively played, and they had dynamite careers, but very few, if any, of their club performances were on an international stage because that&#8217;s not the nature of club football.</p>
<p>admittedly, van basten had rotten luck with injuries, without which his goalscoring numbers would be even more phenomenal and which perhaps also contributes to his not being recognised more readily as a once-in-a-generation type of player.</p>
<p>in the end, such proclamations, aside from ones made about pele or maradona, are usually subjective and mine about zizou certainly are. i guess it might also boil down to this: who, from the last decade and a half, would i want to start a team with?  my answer would be zizou, without question.  your answer might be different&#8211;and ten others commenting here might each have ten different answers, as well.  such is the nature of sports&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MrChips</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42889</link>
		<dc:creator>MrChips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42889</guid>
		<description>dissidentdave, out of deference to you i'm not using any caps.  but, i am curious as to your praise for zidane.  how would you rate van basten to zidane as both came after maradona, though there was some overlap with diego and marco.  granted they played different positions and had different strengths but 270 goals in only 10 years with 24 in international play would seem enough to overshadow zidane's 123 goals with 30 in international play over 18 years.  and, van basten was mr. clutch if ever there was one.  anyhoo, just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dissidentdave, out of deference to you i&#8217;m not using any caps.  but, i am curious as to your praise for zidane.  how would you rate van basten to zidane as both came after maradona, though there was some overlap with diego and marco.  granted they played different positions and had different strengths but 270 goals in only 10 years with 24 in international play would seem enough to overshadow zidane&#8217;s 123 goals with 30 in international play over 18 years.  and, van basten was mr. clutch if ever there was one.  anyhoo, just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: dda</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42877</link>
		<dc:creator>dda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 23:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42877</guid>
		<description>Whatever bit Zizou in the arse, we'll prolly never know. What could Materazzi tell him that would make him snap like that? He had also head-butted – albeit very lightly, more a taunt – during the game against...? was it Switzerland? Anyway, not the best show for a player usually better known for fair play and greatness. Thank God he didn't head-butt Materazzi in the face...

Before that, the French team was the better – the second half was basically spent in the Italian half, but they didn't break. Which is what counts, as much as it eats me... Well, both teams will meet in September for the qualifying rounds of the Euro 2008.

And now, let's prepare for a *real* World Cup: Rugby, in 2007 and in France!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever bit Zizou in the arse, we&#8217;ll prolly never know. What could Materazzi tell him that would make him snap like that? He had also head-butted – albeit very lightly, more a taunt – during the game against&#8230;? was it Switzerland? Anyway, not the best show for a player usually better known for fair play and greatness. Thank God he didn&#8217;t head-butt Materazzi in the face&#8230;</p>
<p>Before that, the French team was the better – the second half was basically spent in the Italian half, but they didn&#8217;t break. Which is what counts, as much as it eats me&#8230; Well, both teams will meet in September for the qualifying rounds of the Euro 2008.</p>
<p>And now, let&#8217;s prepare for a *real* World Cup: Rugby, in 2007 and in France!</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42874</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 22:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42874</guid>
		<description>Good game.  Entertaining as well.

Grosso is a star.  Zidane loses cool at the end of match. 

Too bad for Koreans.  If the French had won, Koreans could have said, "We tied with the champion (=We are as good as the Champion)".

Controversial but entertaining World Cup.  I hope African teams bring more fire into the World cup next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good game.  Entertaining as well.</p>
<p>Grosso is a star.  Zidane loses cool at the end of match. </p>
<p>Too bad for Koreans.  If the French had won, Koreans could have said, &#8220;We tied with the champion (=We are as good as the Champion)&#8221;.</p>
<p>Controversial but entertaining World Cup.  I hope African teams bring more fire into the World cup next time.</p>
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		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42872</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 21:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42872</guid>
		<description>i thought it was a great match.  Quite exciting.  How can a match be boring when either side has a chance to end it all with one more score?   And, yes, I saw the whole thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i thought it was a great match.  Quite exciting.  How can a match be boring when either side has a chance to end it all with one more score?   And, yes, I saw the whole thing.</p>
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		<title>By: MrChips</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42870</link>
		<dc:creator>MrChips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 21:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42870</guid>
		<description>Well in one neanderthal act of unbelievable stupidity, Zidane ensured that his name will not be remembered in a list of greats like Pele, Dimaggio, Gretzky, Sugar Ray Robinson, and Jim Thorpe.  No, he has relegated himself to the list of juvenile losers like Mike Tyson, Dennis Rodman, Ty Cobb, Tie Domi, and Pete Rose.  What a dork!  What a freakin fanouk!  I hope he has a headache. That was the weirdest thing I've seen in a football match in a while.

And a boring game to boot.  Fairly clean until Zidane crapped his pants, but not overwhelmingly so.  Azzuri D was definitely the key to this win and it was fairly obvious from the beginning they were holding out for a long ball, quick run type goal. Buffon, Pirlo and Cannavaro were in top form again, though I think the edge will go to Buffon for the Golden Ball Award. Meanwhile it never should have made it to extra time. Malouda should be forced to share a closet with Greg Louganis after that picture-perfect half-pike into the dirt (9.5). Other than Italy winning, ironically by being the more classy team (is that possible?), that was overall a disappointing match.  American Football anyone??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well in one neanderthal act of unbelievable stupidity, Zidane ensured that his name will not be remembered in a list of greats like Pele, Dimaggio, Gretzky, Sugar Ray Robinson, and Jim Thorpe.  No, he has relegated himself to the list of juvenile losers like Mike Tyson, Dennis Rodman, Ty Cobb, Tie Domi, and Pete Rose.  What a dork!  What a freakin fanouk!  I hope he has a headache. That was the weirdest thing I&#8217;ve seen in a football match in a while.</p>
<p>And a boring game to boot.  Fairly clean until Zidane crapped his pants, but not overwhelmingly so.  Azzuri D was definitely the key to this win and it was fairly obvious from the beginning they were holding out for a long ball, quick run type goal. Buffon, Pirlo and Cannavaro were in top form again, though I think the edge will go to Buffon for the Golden Ball Award. Meanwhile it never should have made it to extra time. Malouda should be forced to share a closet with Greg Louganis after that picture-perfect half-pike into the dirt (9.5). Other than Italy winning, ironically by being the more classy team (is that possible?), that was overall a disappointing match.  American Football anyone??</p>
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		<title>By: The Goat</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42869</link>
		<dc:creator>The Goat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 21:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42869</guid>
		<description>Well it's done.  Now just 4 more years to wait until we can do it again!

By the way, I am glad Italy won...just because it pisses so many people off. 

On the flipside, what the hell was Zidane thinking!??!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it&#8217;s done.  Now just 4 more years to wait until we can do it again!</p>
<p>By the way, I am glad Italy won&#8230;just because it pisses so many people off. </p>
<p>On the flipside, what the hell was Zidane thinking!??!</p>
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		<title>By: dda</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42866</link>
		<dc:creator>dda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 20:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42866</guid>
		<description>Sigh...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigh&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Zonath</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42864</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 17:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42864</guid>
		<description>Right now, Portugal is winning the "Most Entertaining Team" vote over at fifaworldcup.com. (Korea won in 2002.)  I guess all the diving and histrionics might end up winning them &lt;i&gt;something&lt;/i&gt;, afterall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right now, Portugal is winning the &#8220;Most Entertaining Team&#8221; vote over at fifaworldcup.com. (Korea won in 2002.)  I guess all the diving and histrionics might end up winning them <i>something</i>, afterall.</p>
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		<title>By: dissidentdave</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42863</link>
		<dc:creator>dissidentdave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 17:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/wc06-the-final-italy-v-france/#comment-42863</guid>
		<description>i stand corrected.  goddamn french names  :)  
jean-jacques, jean-marie, billie jean king, nom de plume, fruit of the loom...  it's madness, i tell you, madness, to keep up with a name like that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i stand corrected.  goddamn french names  <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
jean-jacques, jean-marie, billie jean king, nom de plume, fruit of the loom&#8230;  it&#8217;s madness, i tell you, madness, to keep up with a name like that&#8230;</p>
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