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	<title>Comments on: Home from Ganghwa Island</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun,  7 Sep 2008 00:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1</generator>
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		<title>By: Origami</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43294</link>
		<dc:creator>Origami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43294</guid>
		<description>---------------------------------------------------------------

"And at least they came away with the Joseon royal archives for their efforts."

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For whatever reason,

those dame French fagots are still holding that crap hostage. I have no idea why that spineless Roh hasn't filed a lawsuit in the International Courts to win it back. 

At least the hated Japanese returned theirs. Not even a thank you note from you know who, I would imagine.

Nice bit of history here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganghwa_Island</description>
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<p>&#8220;And at least they came away with the Joseon royal archives for their efforts.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>For whatever reason,</p>
<p>those dame French fagots are still holding that crap hostage. I have no idea why that spineless Roh hasn&#8217;t filed a lawsuit in the International Courts to win it back. </p>
<p>At least the hated Japanese returned theirs. Not even a thank you note from you know who, I would imagine.</p>
<p>Nice bit of history here:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganghwa_Island" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganghwa_Island</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sperwer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43127</link>
		<dc:creator>Sperwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43127</guid>
		<description>Lirelou:

Thanks for the input. I guess our guys didn't have the 1872 Rolling Blocks, since the action was in 1871.  My source for the muzzleloaders is the same one cited by CM, where it say that some of the Marines did have repeaters but "most" still were packing single shots - which kinds makes sense considering both the budget constraints you cite and the fact that the boys in question were in Asia on a mission that wasn't really high on the priority list.  BTW, like the reference to "Les Mercenaires".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lirelou:</p>
<p>Thanks for the input. I guess our guys didn&#8217;t have the 1872 Rolling Blocks, since the action was in 1871.  My source for the muzzleloaders is the same one cited by CM, where it say that some of the Marines did have repeaters but &#8220;most&#8221; still were packing single shots - which kinds makes sense considering both the budget constraints you cite and the fact that the boys in question were in Asia on a mission that wasn&#8217;t really high on the priority list.  BTW, like the reference to &#8220;Les Mercenaires&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Zhang Fei</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43061</link>
		<dc:creator>Zhang Fei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43061</guid>
		<description>Sperwer: &lt;i&gt;So stop the “poor little Korea” posturing, unless you want to defend govt directed murders of foreign priests and native catholics and indiscrimate shelling by shore batteries of offshore commercial vessles.&lt;/i&gt;

The Koreans aren't alone in this kind of thing. The Chinese government organized the slaughter of 40,000 Chinese Christians (who were literally hacked to pieces) and a number of foreign missionaries during the Boxer Rebellion. Their murderers are hailed as heroes in Chinese accounts of the incident.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sperwer: <i>So stop the “poor little Korea” posturing, unless you want to defend govt directed murders of foreign priests and native catholics and indiscrimate shelling by shore batteries of offshore commercial vessles.</i></p>
<p>The Koreans aren&#8217;t alone in this kind of thing. The Chinese government organized the slaughter of 40,000 Chinese Christians (who were literally hacked to pieces) and a number of foreign missionaries during the Boxer Rebellion. Their murderers are hailed as heroes in Chinese accounts of the incident.</p>
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		<title>By: lirelou</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43060</link>
		<dc:creator>lirelou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43060</guid>
		<description>Sperwer, not sure the U.S. side would have had muzzle loaders. Although budget constraints did keep some Marines in muzzle loaders for several years after the Civil War, the M-1865/66/68/70 modifications were "trap door Springfields" firing a .50/70 cartridge (the M-1873 model switched to .45/70 calibre). 1872 also saw the introduction of some M-1872 (Rolling Block Springfields), but I saw no mention of the Marines having received it in Asia. But, even with a single shot breech loading cartridge rifle, the Marines would have been trained to rely on "cold steel" as noted earlier. All artillery of the period, by the way, was used in the direct fire mode, although some of the ships may have had seige mortars mounted. (Lots of those left over from the civil war).The techniques for angled (indirect), adjusted fire really developed in the First World War. My guess is that the Leathernecks and Blue jackets were armed with the trap door Springfields, which should have given them a six to one advantage in firepower.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sperwer, not sure the U.S. side would have had muzzle loaders. Although budget constraints did keep some Marines in muzzle loaders for several years after the Civil War, the M-1865/66/68/70 modifications were &#8220;trap door Springfields&#8221; firing a .50/70 cartridge (the M-1873 model switched to .45/70 calibre). 1872 also saw the introduction of some M-1872 (Rolling Block Springfields), but I saw no mention of the Marines having received it in Asia. But, even with a single shot breech loading cartridge rifle, the Marines would have been trained to rely on &#8220;cold steel&#8221; as noted earlier. All artillery of the period, by the way, was used in the direct fire mode, although some of the ships may have had seige mortars mounted. (Lots of those left over from the civil war).The techniques for angled (indirect), adjusted fire really developed in the First World War. My guess is that the Leathernecks and Blue jackets were armed with the trap door Springfields, which should have given them a six to one advantage in firepower.</p>
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		<title>By: Sperwer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43053</link>
		<dc:creator>Sperwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 01:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43053</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Like I said, a complete mismatch in weaponry and technology.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

1.  Now your talking about the US assault in 1871; the French incursion of 1866 is the topic;

2.  I already indicated that the US had "some" repeating rifles; the bulk of the the leathernecks and gobs were armed with Springfield and Plymouth muzzle loaders.  The US did have some field artillery.

3.  The Korean armament did include some old matchlocks.  They also had newer muzzle loaders.  Their artillery was so short-range and inaccurate, as you claim, that they were able to hit US Ships at sea offshore.

4.  Again, this all concerns the confrontation between US and Korean forces, not the French.

5.  The French didn't have either the repeating rifles or the larger field pieces of the US.

6.  Sure, there was a slight equipment imbalance; but the real basis for the success (in terms of accomlishing their objectives) of both the French and US incursions was the gross martial ineptitude of the Korean defenders - an incompetence that was centuries in the making and encompassed far more than technological backwardness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Like I said, a complete mismatch in weaponry and technology.</p></blockquote>
<p>1.  Now your talking about the US assault in 1871; the French incursion of 1866 is the topic;</p>
<p>2.  I already indicated that the US had &#8220;some&#8221; repeating rifles; the bulk of the the leathernecks and gobs were armed with Springfield and Plymouth muzzle loaders.  The US did have some field artillery.</p>
<p>3.  The Korean armament did include some old matchlocks.  They also had newer muzzle loaders.  Their artillery was so short-range and inaccurate, as you claim, that they were able to hit US Ships at sea offshore.</p>
<p>4.  Again, this all concerns the confrontation between US and Korean forces, not the French.</p>
<p>5.  The French didn&#8217;t have either the repeating rifles or the larger field pieces of the US.</p>
<p>6.  Sure, there was a slight equipment imbalance; but the real basis for the success (in terms of accomlishing their objectives) of both the French and US incursions was the gross martial ineptitude of the Korean defenders - an incompetence that was centuries in the making and encompassed far more than technological backwardness.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonath</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43043</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43043</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Koreans had matchlocks (isn’t that 16th century weapon?)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually, matchlocks were 15th-century technology, more or less, although the ones that would have been used in the 1800s would have been somewhat more refined than the ones originally introduced to the region by Portugese traders.  Still, they would have been slower to reload even than the cap-and-cartridge muzzle-loading muskets used by the Americans, and would hardly mention comparison with a Remington carbine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Koreans had matchlocks (isn’t that 16th century weapon?)</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, matchlocks were 15th-century technology, more or less, although the ones that would have been used in the 1800s would have been somewhat more refined than the ones originally introduced to the region by Portugese traders.  Still, they would have been slower to reload even than the cap-and-cartridge muzzle-loading muskets used by the Americans, and would hardly mention comparison with a Remington carbine.</p>
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		<title>By: cm</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43039</link>
		<dc:creator>cm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43039</guid>
		<description>"You obviously don’t know much of anything about what weapons were available to each side"

I suggest you read the above link. Koreans had matchlocks (isn't that 16th century weapon?), while the Yanks had Remingtons and long range artillary. Koreans had canons too, but their artillary was too short in range too inaccurate to be of any use.

Like I said, a complete mismatch in weaponry and technology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You obviously don’t know much of anything about what weapons were available to each side&#8221;</p>
<p>I suggest you read the above link. Koreans had matchlocks (isn&#8217;t that 16th century weapon?), while the Yanks had Remingtons and long range artillary. Koreans had canons too, but their artillary was too short in range too inaccurate to be of any use.</p>
<p>Like I said, a complete mismatch in weaponry and technology.</p>
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		<title>By: ORblog</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43031</link>
		<dc:creator>ORblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43031</guid>
		<description>I was going to mention the French battalion in the Korean War, but it looks like several people already beat me to it.

I'll just point out an interesting site on the USMC assault on Kanghwa, at http://www.shinmiyangyo.org, and that several Medals of Honor were awarded as a result, see http://www.army.mil/cmh/mohkor1.htm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was going to mention the French battalion in the Korean War, but it looks like several people already beat me to it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll just point out an interesting site on the USMC assault on Kanghwa, at <a href="http://www.shinmiyangyo.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.shinmiyangyo.org</a>, and that several Medals of Honor were awarded as a result, see <a href="http://www.army.mil/cmh/mohkor1.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.army.mil/cmh/mohkor1.htm</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: setnaffa</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43029</link>
		<dc:creator>setnaffa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-43029</guid>
		<description>This blog, complete with rips at the Japanese of Europe and a Cartman homage is the funniest thing I've read in a week!

Thank you...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This blog, complete with rips at the Japanese of Europe and a Cartman homage is the funniest thing I&#8217;ve read in a week!</p>
<p>Thank you&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sperwer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-42970</link>
		<dc:creator>Sperwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/09/home-from-ganghwa-island/#comment-42970</guid>
		<description>You obviously don't know much of anything about what weapons were available to each side, and how relatively primitive each side's weapons were.  Calling any of it technology is technically accurate, but very misleading because of the impression it creates that we're talking about something similar to what we see on the evening news.  The late 19th century was still pretty much the era of "cold steel", though it was slowly giving way to still relatively primitive projectiles, especially on the individual firearm level.  The big breakthroughs starting coming in the US Civil War, but even the marines in the US assault on Gangwha only had a handful of men with repeating rifles with 'em.  You also seem to forget that the Koreans had firearms since at least the late 16th century.  You also continue to ignore the other circumstances that more than compensated for whatever marginal advantage the French may have had purley on the basis of equipment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You obviously don&#8217;t know much of anything about what weapons were available to each side, and how relatively primitive each side&#8217;s weapons were.  Calling any of it technology is technically accurate, but very misleading because of the impression it creates that we&#8217;re talking about something similar to what we see on the evening news.  The late 19th century was still pretty much the era of &#8220;cold steel&#8221;, though it was slowly giving way to still relatively primitive projectiles, especially on the individual firearm level.  The big breakthroughs starting coming in the US Civil War, but even the marines in the US assault on Gangwha only had a handful of men with repeating rifles with &#8216;em.  You also seem to forget that the Koreans had firearms since at least the late 16th century.  You also continue to ignore the other circumstances that more than compensated for whatever marginal advantage the French may have had purley on the basis of equipment.</p>
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