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	<title>Comments on: FIFA vs. Netizen Power</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 04:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41469</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41469</guid>
		<description>Sonagi, that was an interesting analogy you made, I would just say that Koreans are being tested that way in the rural areas with the rise of interracial marriages (mostly S.K. men and Vietnamese women), and it might be even more disruptive than having a "foreigner community" in their midst because these families are partly Korean. We'll see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sonagi, that was an interesting analogy you made, I would just say that Koreans are being tested that way in the rural areas with the rise of interracial marriages (mostly S.K. men and Vietnamese women), and it might be even more disruptive than having a &#8220;foreigner community&#8221; in their midst because these families are partly Korean. We&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41461</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41461</guid>
		<description>JiMong,

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on my long post.  I didn't think you'd find it since it's being pushed down the page by newer threads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JiMong,</p>
<p>Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on my long post.  I didn&#8217;t think you&#8217;d find it since it&#8217;s being pushed down the page by newer threads.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41460</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41460</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;"Of course, you could also say that the average American has a pretty distorted view of Japan, China… Canada… Well, just about any other country they haven’t actually been to, really",&lt;/strong&gt;

"American" could be substituted with many other nationalities.  Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese have distorted views of each other.  The list is as endless as the earth is round.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>&#8220;Of course, you could also say that the average American has a pretty distorted view of Japan, China… Canada… Well, just about any other country they haven’t actually been to, really&#8221;,</strong></p>
<p>&#8220;American&#8221; could be substituted with many other nationalities.  Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese have distorted views of each other.  The list is as endless as the earth is round.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonath</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41457</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 22:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41457</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Oriental or Asian, called to be “Chink” or “Jap” - May be 9o% or more of people even do not know about Korea, Korean, I think.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, because it's &lt;i&gt;so&lt;/i&gt; insensitive of the people using the terms 'Chink' and 'Jap' not to at least get the country of origin right...  Especially when they've obviously taken the time to talk to the person being slurred in order to find out that they're not Chinese or Japanese. ;)

I think that 90% of people might be a bit high when talking about people who don't know about Korea.  After all, there are plenty of people who learned about the Korean War in school and watched M*A*S*H on TV.  Of course, that doesn't mean that anyone really has much of an accurate picture of Korea or Koreans, since the average American only has what they've learned on TV and in school to inform their opinion of Korea.  Heck, just try convincing the average American that Korea isn't in Souteast Asia.  ;)  Of course, you could also say that the average American has a pretty distorted view of Japan, China... Canada...  Well, just about any other country they haven't actually been to, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Oriental or Asian, called to be “Chink” or “Jap” - May be 9o% or more of people even do not know about Korea, Korean, I think.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, because it&#8217;s <i>so</i> insensitive of the people using the terms &#8216;Chink&#8217; and &#8216;Jap&#8217; not to at least get the country of origin right&#8230;  Especially when they&#8217;ve obviously taken the time to talk to the person being slurred in order to find out that they&#8217;re not Chinese or Japanese. <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I think that 90% of people might be a bit high when talking about people who don&#8217;t know about Korea.  After all, there are plenty of people who learned about the Korean War in school and watched M*A*S*H on TV.  Of course, that doesn&#8217;t mean that anyone really has much of an accurate picture of Korea or Koreans, since the average American only has what they&#8217;ve learned on TV and in school to inform their opinion of Korea.  Heck, just try convincing the average American that Korea isn&#8217;t in Souteast Asia.  <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Of course, you could also say that the average American has a pretty distorted view of Japan, China&#8230; Canada&#8230;  Well, just about any other country they haven&#8217;t actually been to, really.</p>
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		<title>By: JiMong</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41447</link>
		<dc:creator>JiMong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41447</guid>
		<description>Sonagi, 

What you said points to the crux of the problem. And don't get me wrong, I do think Koreans are one of worst racists and many foreigners suffer from it.  Still, What disgust me is the loud cry out when it is done by Koreans and the discrete objectiveness when it is committed by them...at least here in this "hole" community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sonagi, </p>
<p>What you said points to the crux of the problem. And don&#8217;t get me wrong, I do think Koreans are one of worst racists and many foreigners suffer from it.  Still, What disgust me is the loud cry out when it is done by Koreans and the discrete objectiveness when it is committed by them&#8230;at least here in this &#8220;hole&#8221; community.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41406</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41406</guid>
		<description>Sugar Shin, Jimong, and Michael:

Please don't misunderstand my point.  I wasn't whining about a few bad apples.  I mentioned my own experiences and provided specific examples of murders of Americans simply to show that racism exists in Korea, too.

My main point is that it is unfair for Koreans to judge themselves morally superior to Westerners because Koreans' tolerance as a nation has never been tested.  France, which considered itself loftily above the blatant racism of America, was shocked into reality by the recent riots in the immigrant suburbs.  Racial  conflict seems to be more or less in proportion to the numbers and degree of diversity in the population.

Consider for example the town of Palisades Park, New Jersey, across from NYC.  In the 80s, Korean immigrants began moving in and buying up failing businesses, revitalizing the downtown.  Korean became the main language at the local chamber of commerce meetings.  Unsurprisingly, racial conflicts emerged.  Today the town is about 40% Asian, mostly Korean.  

Now imagine that the city of Namyangju, east of Seoul, attracts a large number of Russian immigrants, who start buying up businesses and enrolling their non-Korean speaking children in local schools.  Imagine that over a ten or fifteen-year period, Namyangju becomes 40% ethnic European.  Does anyone here think there wouldn't be conflicts, especially in the schools?  Organized group violence is already a serious problem in Korean schools, and if racially different children began attending Korean schools in large numbers, I believe we would see racial conflicts similar to what is found in North American schools.

Not only racial diversity, but also physical and mental disabilities.  A typical classroom of twenty students at my school will contain at least one visually impaired child, a hearing-impaired child, an autistic child, and a child who uses a walker or wheelchair to move.  Having returned to the US after so many years in Asia, I am IMPRESSED with how real human diversity, not just racial diversity, teaches our teachers and students to be tolerant and appreciate humanity in all its forms.  The door to the counselors' office in the middle school is adorned with a large pink triangle reading "safe space."

How about Korean schools?

The  only cities in Korea that have any proportionately large foreign presence are places like Dongducheon; a foreign military base is not the same as an immigrant community. 

There are only pockets of diversity in Korea, mostly in the cities.  The biggest foreign population, ethnic Koreans from China, are not highly visible.

That is my point.  It is impossible to make JUDGEMENTS about racial attitudes between Koreans and other nationalities because the populations are so different.

The world would be a better place if we all tried to understand each other rather than judge each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sugar Shin, Jimong, and Michael:</p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t misunderstand my point.  I wasn&#8217;t whining about a few bad apples.  I mentioned my own experiences and provided specific examples of murders of Americans simply to show that racism exists in Korea, too.</p>
<p>My main point is that it is unfair for Koreans to judge themselves morally superior to Westerners because Koreans&#8217; tolerance as a nation has never been tested.  France, which considered itself loftily above the blatant racism of America, was shocked into reality by the recent riots in the immigrant suburbs.  Racial  conflict seems to be more or less in proportion to the numbers and degree of diversity in the population.</p>
<p>Consider for example the town of Palisades Park, New Jersey, across from NYC.  In the 80s, Korean immigrants began moving in and buying up failing businesses, revitalizing the downtown.  Korean became the main language at the local chamber of commerce meetings.  Unsurprisingly, racial conflicts emerged.  Today the town is about 40% Asian, mostly Korean.  </p>
<p>Now imagine that the city of Namyangju, east of Seoul, attracts a large number of Russian immigrants, who start buying up businesses and enrolling their non-Korean speaking children in local schools.  Imagine that over a ten or fifteen-year period, Namyangju becomes 40% ethnic European.  Does anyone here think there wouldn&#8217;t be conflicts, especially in the schools?  Organized group violence is already a serious problem in Korean schools, and if racially different children began attending Korean schools in large numbers, I believe we would see racial conflicts similar to what is found in North American schools.</p>
<p>Not only racial diversity, but also physical and mental disabilities.  A typical classroom of twenty students at my school will contain at least one visually impaired child, a hearing-impaired child, an autistic child, and a child who uses a walker or wheelchair to move.  Having returned to the US after so many years in Asia, I am IMPRESSED with how real human diversity, not just racial diversity, teaches our teachers and students to be tolerant and appreciate humanity in all its forms.  The door to the counselors&#8217; office in the middle school is adorned with a large pink triangle reading &#8220;safe space.&#8221;</p>
<p>How about Korean schools?</p>
<p>The  only cities in Korea that have any proportionately large foreign presence are places like Dongducheon; a foreign military base is not the same as an immigrant community. </p>
<p>There are only pockets of diversity in Korea, mostly in the cities.  The biggest foreign population, ethnic Koreans from China, are not highly visible.</p>
<p>That is my point.  It is impossible to make JUDGEMENTS about racial attitudes between Koreans and other nationalities because the populations are so different.</p>
<p>The world would be a better place if we all tried to understand each other rather than judge each other.</p>
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		<title>By: luke drift</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41344</link>
		<dc:creator>luke drift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41344</guid>
		<description>RK

Are you kidding? Those nutizens are NUTS.
I do, however, make it a point to heckle, tease and harass the Koreans I know out here on just about everything that deserves heckling: these days of course it's been all about world cup-related idiocy, but as you've noticed...there's no shortage of material to slam Koreans with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RK</p>
<p>Are you kidding? Those nutizens are NUTS.<br />
I do, however, make it a point to heckle, tease and harass the Koreans I know out here on just about everything that deserves heckling: these days of course it&#8217;s been all about world cup-related idiocy, but as you&#8217;ve noticed&#8230;there&#8217;s no shortage of material to slam Koreans with.</p>
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		<title>By: JiMong</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41330</link>
		<dc:creator>JiMong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 07:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41330</guid>
		<description>Sonagi,

I really feel sorry that you had experienced about dozen incidents because you were a foreigner, or as a white person, presumed to be American. 

But I do also experienced everything you experienced in US, in Europe as an Oriental or Asian, called to be "Chink" or "Jap" - May be 9o% or more of people even do not know about Korea, Korean, I think.

I mean once you cross the boarder you will face the hatred feeling or racism towards foreigners, it just happens everywhere. If you are lucky you will never confront with these people. 

For the ordinary Korean, 외국인 (Foreigner) means 미국인 (American) or 미군(USFK) and they got wrong impression about foreigner by Korean media and Internet.  And there's no doubt that USFK crimes add more hatred feeling to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sonagi,</p>
<p>I really feel sorry that you had experienced about dozen incidents because you were a foreigner, or as a white person, presumed to be American. </p>
<p>But I do also experienced everything you experienced in US, in Europe as an Oriental or Asian, called to be &#8220;Chink&#8221; or &#8220;Jap&#8221; - May be 9o% or more of people even do not know about Korea, Korean, I think.</p>
<p>I mean once you cross the boarder you will face the hatred feeling or racism towards foreigners, it just happens everywhere. If you are lucky you will never confront with these people. </p>
<p>For the ordinary Korean, 외국인 (Foreigner) means 미국인 (American) or 미군(USFK) and they got wrong impression about foreigner by Korean media and Internet.  And there&#8217;s no doubt that USFK crimes add more hatred feeling to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Sugar Shin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41322</link>
		<dc:creator>Sugar Shin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 06:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41322</guid>
		<description>dda, beat Brazil and we'll meet in the final, where the German-Franco inherited enmity could bloom ;) never mind the spirit of European Union - this is football! Just like in the good old days of Sedan... who won then??? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dda, beat Brazil and we&#8217;ll meet in the final, where the German-Franco inherited enmity could bloom <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> never mind the spirit of European Union - this is football! Just like in the good old days of Sedan&#8230; who won then??? <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41321</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 06:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/26/fifa-vs-netizen-power/#comment-41321</guid>
		<description>Sonagi, I had to laugh about "Many Koreans have told me they think one advantage of being racially homogeneous is the lack of racial conflict. " Koreans are, god bless em, the most contentious people I've ever encountered. Even is it isn't racially based (and even that homogeneity is a myth) it's regional, political, or religious conflict, or some combination. Look at how long political parties hold together for example. 

Also, I don't want to make light of your experience, but I don't think there's any more racism in Korea than in a lot of other countries, and the level of violence toward foreigners seems lower than elsewhere, although I haven't exactly studied the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sonagi, I had to laugh about &#8220;Many Koreans have told me they think one advantage of being racially homogeneous is the lack of racial conflict. &#8221; Koreans are, god bless em, the most contentious people I&#8217;ve ever encountered. Even is it isn&#8217;t racially based (and even that homogeneity is a myth) it&#8217;s regional, political, or religious conflict, or some combination. Look at how long political parties hold together for example. </p>
<p>Also, I don&#8217;t want to make light of your experience, but I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s any more racism in Korea than in a lot of other countries, and the level of violence toward foreigners seems lower than elsewhere, although I haven&#8217;t exactly studied the issue.</p>
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