The Kukmin Ilbo’s Internet edition is reporting on the ongoing strife between FIFA’s homepage administrators and the unstoppable force that is Korea’s netizen community.
As reported earlier, FIFA has blocked access to its homepage from Korea. This has sparked outrage among many Korean netizens, who accuse FIFA of dissing Korea. Some of the more radical quarters of the netizen community are calling for netizens to show FIFA “Korea’s Power ™ as an IT power” by crashing the football association’s homepage by accessing it via third-nation proxies, directions on which they are spreading via online bulletin boards and blogs.
The Kukmin Ilbo reports, however, that many netizens oppose this call to “terror,” pointing out that such behavior would bring international shame to Korea.
Meanwhile, call for an Official Apology ™ from FIFA are on the rise, with some netizens claiming that this mess would all be over if FIFA just said it’s sorry.
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Let’s see if I’ve got this right. Korea’s net-terrorists crash the FIFA homepage through a concerted effort at overloading the circuits, FIFA responds by switching off access from Korea, Korea’s whiners say THAT’S disrespectful and demand an apology. I guess the’ve been reading the KJI Book of Etiquette. To borrow a trope from RTom Lehrer, What’s Going to Happen when IT Korea gets the bomb?
That’s hilarious. After all, everyone knows that a simple apology worked wonders for the US Army after those schoolgirls got run over, not to mention Japan for the whole ‘occupying and raping you’ thing. The best thing that FIFA could do in this situation is to sit tight and wait for something else to occupy the attention of the netijens. After all, if they apologize, it only proves that they did something wrong in the first place.
Koreans making baseless and unfounded demands for apologies? Surely not! After all, without compensation, apologies are meaningless
You know… if I’m FIFA or the Olympics, I would begin looking at the possibility of expcluding Korean atheletes and teams from our events. The hassle they have to deal with from Korean netizens just isn’t worth it…
OK, that’s a bit harsh. The netizens are just being silly. It’s not like they’re rioting in foreign capitals like English football hooligans.
I wouldn’t mind excluding them from International Sports, but then I guess we would have to find a new “hub” of archery and short-track
I am sort of surprised tht FIFA hasn’t at acknowledged the Korean fan’s concerns, even with some sort of statement that “the call” was legitimate. Afterall, there is a massive untapped market in South East Asia (and China), which I am told, views Korea as a leader into World Cup play. Asia is a relative newcomer, and some public relations might do some good here.
At least the most-wired country in the world is putting the technology to good use. You know, like exposing the dog-poop girl and spearheading pointless, ridiculous, unrealistic campaigns for rematches in the World Cup or returning “stolen” gold medals at the Olypics.
It’s exactly what Tim Berners-Lee had in mind when he invented the platform. If only the rest of the world could harness the power of the internets like the super-wired Koreans have done.
I can’t wait until the next Olympics when Korea isn’t invited!!
I don’t think FIFA should even acknowledge the fans concern. The video footage is there for all to see. Besides, it would only encourage more childish immature behavior.
I wonder how long until the “Korea Wave” stars and politicians got involved like they did in HK.
And FIFA apologize? For what? Did anyone watch the reply? The ball went off of a Korean defenders foot meaning not offsides. Was a whistle blown to stop play? Nope, the Korean players stopped when a line official incorrectly called it offsides but the head official did nothing of the sort. It’s part of the game, the game Korea lost. Shut up, start practicing for next time so that you won’t put yourself in a situation where bad officiating could make a difference. If the team was so superior like the netcitizens claim, this call wouldn’t have made a difference because Korea would have still won.
Of course I can’t say I expected much from the fans of Korea to begin with. Did anyone see the way the handled themselves when they were the co-hosts last time?
Perhaps not, but they’re threatening to bomb embassies.
turn about is fair play?
ooops… i think that should be turnabout
I say we gather the Waygookizens online and crash Naver, Daum, Cyworld and whatever portal they use here. Send an email to 10 people on your list and have them send it on to 10 more people. Or also, download an e-mail bomber where you can send a Hiroshima of e-mails to those servers.
If you want to get around the fifa.com link, just go here http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/
Don’t tell the Netijens about it!
Anyway, let them vent all they want, it’s quite amusing to all my friends back home in Canada..and besides, we’d have nothing to blog/comment about. Pretty interesting week I’d say.
Proof that the WWW is a Korean invention.
Not sure why this, surely the FIFAgate headline du jour, wasn’t linked to in a post:
http://worldcup.reuters.com/fr.....68011.html
(Posted by Won Joon Choe 26 Jun 2006 at 2:42 am)
If only the rest of the world could harness the power of the internets like the super-wired Koreans have done.
Well, Americans have had their moments too, such has the sagas of Laura K Krishna, Dan Hoyt, and the Stolen Sidekick. These are more about teaching manners on an individual basis than the vast nationalist movements that get inspired in Korea though…
i just find it hilarious that if korea wins something, any criticism is thrown under the rug, but anytime they lose all hell literally breaks loose. and without a doubt, this will turn into some chant or something in Beijing. you can gaurantee it. i am just glad it is the swiss and not the Americans anymore…maybe Ohno’s name will drop a little further down the hit list.
I’m in China, so I can’t, but could someone walk down a street for me in Korea, yodeling?
Anyone else seen the Swiss stick figure tshirt design that has helped fan the fire?
Pretty funny, I found it on the MOFAT site, one of the netizens posted it.
Everyone at my offcie got a kick out of it.
Advocaat out, Verbeek in.
“Perhaps not, but they’re threatening to bomb embassies”
Correction. One guy threatened to bomb embassies. Adendum: Nobody takes him seriously.
“possibility of expcluding Korean atheletes and teams from our events.”
That’s fine. But then how are you going to explain 2002 when Italians flooded the FIFA site? Why weren’t they banned from the World Cup?
I really think everyone should calm down. Most Koreans are going back to normal lives except for the die hard hardcores with internet connections. The soccer controversy is not a big headline in S.Korea. But it does seem to be a big story in Korea related blogs.
It’s not a big headline in South Korea? Could have fooled me.
I meant to say it’s not the “top” headline in South Korea.
What IS the top headline, if I might be so rude as to ask?
NOTE: The article linked above was still No. 5 on the most looked-at pieces on Naver.com.
Hint: It’s not how to make Korean War-era jumeok bap, although that’s pretty interesting, too.
Oh, and it’s not EA’s FIFA 2006 homepage getting flooded by protest letters by mistake…
Del rojo de la gente!
http://img.photobucket.com/alb.....dereds.jpg
Are you talkin’ about
http://www.fifa.com/en/index.html ??
I get it fine sitting here in Nonsan, Chungnam-do…
Still not working on my system in Seoul. Wasn’t working at the office, either. FIFA did make an official statement that it had shut off access from Korea (or so I read this morning), so I couldn’t explain why you’re getting in.
They must be reading – I’ve just been locked out.
hmmmmmm maybe it was in the cache?
Access Denied
You don’t have permission to access “http://www.fifa.com/en/index.html” on this server.
Reference #18.1dc65adc.1151323011.1559b0d
“The article linked above was still No. 5 on the most looked-at pieces on Naver.com.”
You’re kidding me right? Naver.com??
Here’s the other media (other than Naver).
http://www.imbc.com
http://news.hankooki.com/
http://www.chosun.com
Some of the stories:
CJ Food scandal (a very serious problem in Korea, totally ignored by Marmot).
Tim Verbeek new head coach of Korean football. ( big useless deal)
담보 대출 (I guess it’s too boring to discuss mundane but hot issues like this in here)
Christ, I get your point (I agree with you it’s stupid), but isn’t it time to move on?
Maybe if I used more of a stencil on the rojo bit….I have to go more vector I guess.
http://img.photobucket.com/alb.....AREDS2.jpg
The Marmot seems to be ignoring the “ELF GIRL”, WTF is up with that?!
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/S.....200042.asp
Jesus H. Christ, CM, what do you want? For me to post news that’s actually important?
BTW, I’m sure you know this, but just in case you didn’t, Naver is a news aggegator. In other words, it doesn’t produce its own content (unlike Daum.net, which does, and some good content at that), but rather collects its news via media agencies with which it has syndication agreements, which, in Naver’s case, just about means every major news agency in Korea (including the Chosun Ilbo, which for some odd reason doesn’t appear to be syndicated at Daum. Or at least it wasn’t). Kind of the Google News of Korea.
this one is more towards the proper effect?
http://img.photobucket.com/alb.....bered4.jpg
The Elf Girl is hard to come by. I don’t think he’’s ignoring her, but I’m glad to see someone else stirring up interest.
hardyandtiny,
i personally like the second iteration of the graphic where one is immediately distressed that he’s not wearing a bra.
now if you only were to print up some stickers a la the old “andre has a posse” style…
This is pretty funny really, of course it’s always someone else’s fault.
–Remort
Korea herald seems to be blocked here in China
I raised this on another thread (Dave’s post on the Argentina-Mexico game), but I’m still wondering what happened to the defense on the second Swiss goal–the one that’s behind all this controversy. The Korean team claims they stopped playing when the offside flag was raised. But Lee Won-jae didn’t stop playing! He tried to stop the shot on goal…and succeeded the first time, but he was way out forward of the net and completely alone, and had no chance of stopping the second one. If the Korean side had only been a little further back and seen that Lee was on his own, maybe it would have twigged in someone that if Lee was still playing, maybe they should too.
Well, it’s all mere speculation and armchair quarterbacking at this point….
judy, I see what you mean – lower the contrast a bit and it’s there – the bra.
Andre Kim or Andre the OutKast dude? Missing it…whooosh
I think FIFA is doing the smart thing by not having an official explanation for the call. Do they usually explain \”controversial\” calls anyways?
Also, Korea is the one that brought down the FIFA website and denied the ability of millions of people from virtually every country in the world the ability to enjoy the website. Why not deny access to Korea instead of having the rest of the World suffer and not have access to the site? Did Korean netizens think about the consequences of their selfish actions on other people? No. They are the ones that should apologize. Then let it be up to the world if their apology is sincere enough.
The Korea Herald is working in my part of China. Is it still down for you, ShenzhenWhitey? Cause I’m always curious about geographic differences in Internet blocking here.
Well, every game Korea ever played in the World Cup just paled in its controversy (one way or the other) to the Italy-Australia game. The two teams were tied 0-0 all through regular time. In the very last minute of play–the 94th minute, into injury time–the ref called a foul against Australia and gave Italy a penalty kick, which they got in, to win 1-0 and go to the next round, with the Socceroos eliminated.
That’s gotta be more contentious than any decisions for or against Korea in 2002 or 2006….
The tables have surely turned…now the Italians will be accused of having improperly won this match, when they were doing it to the Koreans in 2002.
…On top of which, the game had 3 mins of stoppage time, but somehow the time was extended on the pitch, and the winning goal was scored in the 95th minute…some kind of time warp going on there.
…Oh okay, the foul was called in the 93rd min (with play starting in the 1st min and ending in the 90th and stoppage time starting in the 91st min), so play is continued if there’s a PK, I guess….
The talk on the FIFA chat page for the game is getting ugly….
The chatter is that Fabio Grosso took the 93rd-minute dive to force a foul against Lucas Neill. Francesco Totti scored the winning goal. You can all go back to sleep now.
That penalty call was dubious at best but the italians also have reasons to complain about the referee. The red card given to Materazzi was ridiculous.
Italians were dirty in 2002 and they are dirty now. Totti took a flop and got red carded then.
Italians used the same tactic in tonight’s game. This guy runs into penalty box and he is looking for a chance to do his flop. He did it and got the call.
F***.
Mike Tyson of soccer.
No funking serious soccer fan should say that Koreans got an advantageous call in 2002. Italians are dirty. The referee should have given this Italian player a red card for flopping.
But, he was afraid of getting killed (by Mafioso). What a way to win a game. Dirty, dirty, dirty!
Madneo, I think sometimes the refs want to overcompensate for one questionable call against one team by issuing another questionable one against the opposing team….
Good (if messy) game vs the Netherlands for you guys yesterday, by the way….
I mean, the game was messy with all the yellow and red cards, not the play itself….
http://www.latimes.com/sports/.....-headlines
I totally disagree with the LA Times article. I have been playing and watching soccer for over forty years and the game is getting dirtier every year.
Pushing the defender by arm as the Italian player did while running into the penalty box is against the rule. But now, everybody does it. So, none of them are called.
I wish referees give out more yellow cards and red cards. Everybody is playing dirty. If referees do not card these, eventually players will lose it and start punching each other, as happened in Portugal-Dutch game.
Dutch team came into the game and injured C. Ronaldo as planned before the game. Then, Portugal wanted to hurt some Dutch players. They were kicking and spiking each other.
Dirty teams should be kicked out. Italians must be stopped from advancing. The dirtiest players. If you have been playing soccer for long time, you can see from the replay, the Italian player who drew foul call was acting. He could have easily avoided the tackle or gone around it, but no. He wanted to dive. And, he got the call.
I thought the penalty call was a bit much considering what the ref had let go during the rest of the match but the Ozzie’s defender still made a pretty dumb move…oh well.
Way to Portugal!! They got a bit rough there towards the end but they did so against a team that has shown itself to be the dirtiest of the dirty thus far in this Cup. Too bad Deco has to miss the England match now. I always thought Nether Regions had a great team but that display by the Dutch was despicable. In fact, I nominate Van Bommel as the most astute Diver in this tournament. He has fully incorporated that skill in to what he thinks to be an acceptable means to winning a match. What a chump!
fifa.com is up and viewable from mapo-gu, but really long time to load. Text and a few banners appear in about 5 minutes but no pictures. No proxies used. Not a cached page as this is the headline:
Latest News
ITALY 1-0 AUSTRALIA
An injury-time penalty from substitute Francesco Totti took ten-man Italy past Australia and into the last eight of the 2006 FIFA World Cup™ in Kaiserslautern.
Guess that apology was given and all is forgiven.
And Ukraine beat Switzerland 3-2 on penalty kicks with 0-0 after extra time.
Now they’ll be up against the Italians….
So are cabbage rolls and perogies going to supplant Swiss chocolate as luxury food items in Korea now?
In Swiss-Ukrain game, the penalty kick should have been awarded to Swiss near the end of the game. It was a clear foul inside the penalty box.
Yet, the referee was afraid of making the same mistake of the preceding game (falling for a flop). So, Swiss got robbed of the win.
See, after the first round, almost every game becomes controversial. It is like this every World Cup. So, those who still makes the issue of Korean success in 2002 and questionable calls, would you please shut up now?
I mean it has been four years. The games are over and done with. Why are you bringing the issue now, quoting only one side?
Since it was brought up, I can’t get the vision out of my head when reading baduk that the cat is saying it all.
And are they going to flood the FIFA’s web site? Are they going swear en masse at Ukranians? Nope. They’ll behave, as well-mannered citizens do…
Isn’t it 3-0?
Ukraine made no mistake to seal a 3-0 shoot-out win.
I guess it’s only me to humming lyrics of Arirang..Nareul beorigo gasineun nimeun
Simnido motgaseo balbyeongnanda…
Anyway,Can’t wait to see match 7 and 8.
Baduk #51: “Italians were dirty in 2002 and they are dirty now…No funking serious soccer fan should say that Koreans got an advantageous call in 2002.”
Baduk #59: “So, those who still makes the issue of Korean success in 2002 and questionable calls, would you please shut up now? I mean it has been four years. The games are over and done with. Why are you bringing the issue now, quoting only one side?”
The unbearable lightness of cognitive dissonance.
Shenzhen Whitey from China wrote:
“I’m in China, so I can’t, but could someone walk down a street for me in Korea, yodeling?”
I’m on it chief, heading down to the cheese shop now
I especially like the Korean delusion that their fellow Asians — whose poor soccer performance the Koreans do nothing but gloat over — are heartbroken by the Taeguk Warriors departure from the World Cup. As if Koreans would have routed for Japan or Saudi Arabia if they had failed to qualify. The caption on the cover of this week’s Hankyoreh magazine: Asia Wept.
As if Koreans would have routed for Japan or Saudi Arabia if they had failed to qualify.
in actuality… the World Cup is becoming more global with wins coming from non-European/South American teams.. it makes for a more vibrant game and frankly, it would have been more exciting if Saudi Arabia or Japan had made it through even with Korea failing to do so.
I wonder where all of your (not just you specifically montclaire) vitriole and negativity stems from.
Sure, soccer is nationalistic, but if your country goes down… guess who you root for next? well… in Korea’s case it was Hiddink
The Korean team would have routed Japan for sure. I’d imagine 12-0, or possibily more. Haven’t you talked to any of the Koreans? They’d tell you this in a matter-of-fact kinda way.
My students think so anyway. Kinda cute
Baduk is right, the WC officiating stinks, it’s the worst of any major sports. FIFA is run like the mafia:
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/.....surowiecki
Montclaire, LOL, “The caption on the cover of this week’s Hankyoreh magazine: Asia Wept.” And some people post here wondering why some expats are so harsh on the Korean media. It’s called shameless hubris.
JiMong:
You are correct…It was 3-0 on penalty kicks for Ukraine. When Ukraine scored the 3rd PK, Switzerland only had 2 chances left, so they wouldn’t have been able to beat Ukraine, so the game was over. I think that’s why the number 2 was sticking in my mind.
“Nope. They’ll behave, as well-mannered citizens do”
Oh give me a break. There’s nothing that compares to European soccer hooliganism that sometimes has cost lives. Save your high moralities, it’s getting old.
After the Swiss victory over South Korea,
here are our fine well mannered Swiss citizens that dda is talking about.
http://sports.aol.com/worldcup.....01?cid=722
Mook> Thanks, for pulling through for me.
Matthew> Looks like the Korea Herald works on my computer at the office. I guess at home its a different ISP or something.
Why so negative, you ask? With more globally minded nations about to eat Korea’s economic lunch, is Daehan Minguk not better served by critics of its nationalism than by the sort of expat crawlers who don “Be the Reds” T-shirts?
In any case, those who think Korean nationalism is like any other contemporary nationalism have failed, I think, to understand its uniqueness. (Only Koreans are capable of believing that they are simultaneously loved by the world, admired for their unique politeness and cheong, etc, and yet incessantly victimized by it!)
It is wonderful indeed that the Koreans have no soccer hooligans. But wouldn’t it be better if Korea’s virulent nationalism were (like its German or Swiss counterpart) restricted primarily to its proles? With exceptions like Serbia, European nations do not have entire media (left, center and right wing), academics with Ph.D.’s etc espousing the sort of race theories and mythohistories that went out of fashion in 1945.
OK, that’s [excluding Korea from international sporting events] a bit harsh. The netizens are just being silly. It’s not like they’re rioting in foreign capitals like English football hooligans.
Perhaps not, but they’re threatening to bomb embassies.
-> not ‘THEY’
I see your point, but you shouldn’t at least make a sweeping criticism.
what really happened: A middle-aged drunk man called to KT to ask the number of the Swiss Embassy and say he would blow it up. He didn’t call to the embassy and he was taken away by police.
Koreans sometimes go extreme, but at the same time, they easily get over it.
Robert, I don’t consider death threats, bomb threats, and calls to hate on an entire country of people “being silly.”
Is there any other group of people in the world that goes as ape-shit bonkers as Koreans do when their team catches a bad call in international sporting events? Sure, everyone gripes when their team goes down, but from what I’ve seen and heard, Koreans are unique in the intensity of their indignation.
Bomb threats? Death threats? Call to hate? Oh my, glad I didn’t wear my “Kiss me, I’m Swiss” T-shirt today. It’s like a bad day in Fallujah out there!
But wouldn’t it be better if Korea’s virulent nationalism were (like its German or Swiss counterpart) restricted primarily to its proles? loveellie
Unlike the popular belief football hooliganism isn’t a phenomenon of the lower classes (”proles”). According to some studies most of the idiots are pretty middle class and unobtrusive in everyday life, besides the football stands.
The explosive combination of radical European football fans and extreme nationalism is widespread. For example fans of Lazio Rome dislay regularly fascist salutes, swastika flags and anti-semite posters. Not to speak about the disgusting reactions throughout European stadiums by many fans towards black players of adverse teams like throwing bananas on the grass field or the infamous grunting of “Oogah, oogah!” or shit like that.
Get of your high horses, there’re many footie assholes out there, regardless of nationality. And by the way, Germany is a country that has over 6 million killed European Jews in its books and from time to time people of different skin color are beaten to death here by some neo-nazi cleanheads – maybe Koreans talk a little too much about silly race theories, but anyhow, they haven’t killed anyone for that in real life.
I have given much thought about this Korean madness. Why are Koreans so fierce about everything?
The answer is their food. Kimchi contains too much red pepper which produces imbalance in people who consume it for long period of time. Pepper goes right to the brain and kills important cells.
A through study of this phenomenon was done by the famous Japanese doctor, Fukujio Koreyas, in 1944. He assembled a set of normal Chinese men in their twenties and subjected them to Korean diet. He needed a special permission from the emperor Hirohito himself because the seriousness of the experiment and the consequences when the Allies found out about this inhumane experiments.
Out of twenty men, ten lost the ability to speak in one month. When the autopsy was performed in one patient who was accidentally drowned (that is what the report says, if you don’t the cause of death, sue the Fukyu corporation which was the employer of Dr. Koreyas), the brain cells were all replaced by a fecal-smelling red cells.
…to be continued..
Baduk, why don’t you come to Seoul and do a cable TV show? You’re way more entertaining than what’s on now.
Michael,
If Baduk’s is articulate and his Korean is up to par, I think he’d be the Korean Rush Limbaugh!
Sugar Shin:
You miss the point. Find me a single European country (again except for the example of Serbia, which bodes rather ill for Korea) where virulent nationalism extends across the entire media, and across the whole political spectrum from left to right. Germany? Don’t make me laugh.
At least Lost Nomad put the pic of Elf Girl in his comments section.
(Only Koreans are capable of believing that they are simultaneously loved by the world, admired for their unique politeness and cheong, etc, and yet incessantly victimized by it!)
Oh please. Americans are great at it too. Except Americans tend to take the victim role to an extreme and proceed to remove governments.
Your observations are interesting but seem somewhat tainted by some extreme disdain for Koreans.
Don’t forget we also believe in fan death. That’s pretty unique in my book.
Find me a single European country (again except for the example of Serbia, which bodes rather ill for Korea) where virulent nationalism extends across the entire media, and across the whole political spectrum from left to right. montclaire
I don’t agree with your generalizing assessment of “virulent nationalism” in the entire mass media and the whole political spectrum of the ROK. I’d say “virulent patriotism” plus overheated emotionalism, that sounds a lot better to me.
I never concluded, that Germany would belong to a nationalistically infested society, but there’s a difference between nationalistic rhetoric in the media or political landscape and race-motivated hate-crimes in real life. Nobody got killed in Korea because of race and color, as far as I know. In Europe it’s could become reality.
Therefore the warnings in some US tourist guides for black people to avoid some rural East-German regions and places. Hm, are you still laughing?
Croatia? Bosnia? Albania? Poland? Slovakia? All Baltic states? Greece? Pretty much of all Central Eastern Europe states… Italy (ok, Berlusconi was kicked out of the MP-seat)? Turkey (if you count them belonging to Europe).
Another non sequitur, Sugar Shin. You claim that nationalism overseas surpasses Korean nationalism in violence. I never said it didn’t – though I do remember several assaults against foreigners here, some of whom I knew personally. There was also that knifing of an American soldier during the Hyosun/Mison frenzy. Your ignorance of such events may have more to do with a media that refuses to report on them than anything else. Then again, the reporting on the Hines Ward visit talked of brutal bullying of mixed-bloods.
My point, to repeat myself, was not that Korean nationalists are the most violent, but that (race-based) nationalism in Korea is virtually monolithic, i.e. it extends across the political spectrum. Again: What place in Europe is like this?
Wait, why patriotism instead of nationalism? Do you really mean to say it’s too mild to be called nationalism? Or that it’s all just a matter of Koreans’ loving their own country and culture not wisely but too well? That would certainly be news to me (and to the Korean language, which the younger generation seems intent on reducing to the odd “neun”, “reul” and “hada”.) Can you elaborate a little?
“… though I do remember several assaults against foreigners here, some of whom I knew personally.” montclaire
I’m not ignorant to your forementioned incidents and the everyday racism in Korea society. You try to label me as an ignorant buck, but I was talking of burning down and killing refugee shelters, houses of immigrants, breaking someone’s back because of his dark skin color.
Killing foreign-looking people on the streets is something what I would call race-based nationalism that extends across the political spectrum and media.
Systematic criminalization and discrimination of immigrants, minorities like gypsies are well-known in Europe, even in societies without rampant nationalistic media or political parties. Why? I dunno, because of deeply ingrained socialization of looking down on colored people and minorities…
Jingoism, that’s what it is. Just so friggin’ needy for recognition of the group; quite a sad state of self-esteem. BTW, what’s all this move-the-topic-off-Korea nonsense? Lily-livered deflection. This is the blog for all Korea all the time. It’s disingenuous to start throwing the yes-but-what-about-that-country rebuttals because it doesn’t address the topic it hand.
Now about hooliganism and does Korea have a football hooligan problem? At this time no, but given it has a vibrant hooligan culture in other aspects of society perhaps football hooliganism isn’t too far fetched. Yet it strikes me that Korea’s geographic isolation would certainly limit hooliganism of an international sort. The yobs travel cheap and want the creature comforts of home when away from it. Not many fish-and-chip take aways ’round here. Have seen some terrific punch ups at the pro baseball games here. But Koreans care quite a lot about foreign opinion, so hooliganism seems unlikely until a sizeable group just doesn’t care anymore.
And the old kimchi gambit to explain it. Thanks for the insightful platitude, baduk. Looking forward to the we-use-chopsticks-so-our-brains-are-superior
ploy–or has this on been spent on Dr. Hwang?
Any Koreans out there looking to boycott their Swiss watches (genuine, Patek Philippe preferably) give me a holla.
This is the blog for all Korea all the time. It’s disingenuous to start throwing the yes-but-what-about-that-country rebuttals because it doesn’t address the topic it hand. seouldout
Besides the fact, that non-Korean comneters started comparing Korean fans’ behaviour with other countries’ behaviour or manners, it would be easier for blokes like you to throw uncommented your disingenuous plattitudes about Kimchi-land… Korea has no hooliganism problem, but they probably would have it, if they wanted, and this and that, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Classic!
“Looking forward to the we-use-chopsticks-so-our-brains-are-superior
ploy–or has this on been spent on Dr. Hwang? ” – soldout
It will be recycled again. If the soccer team does well in 2010, then some Koreans will say, “Our passes are accurate because we are used to pick one grain of rice with chopstics. The same accuracy!”
Come to think of it, the Chinese and the Japanese use chopsticks too. And, since they do not use spoons, they exclusively use chopsticks. Koreans use spoons half the time. Does this mean that the Chinese and the Japanese are at least twice smarter than Koreans?
Oh no. This fact can sink Korea. More damaging than NK nukes.
“Does this mean that the Chinese and the Japanese are at least twice smarter than Koreans?”
Given the record of achievement the Japanese are at least 18 times smarter and the Chinese at least 63 times.
And the Chinese have spoons, too. http://www.bigstockphoto.com/photo/view/54776
Anybody remember the Seinfeld routine about the chopsticks and the plow??
“And the old kimchi gambit to explain it. Thanks for the insightful platitude, baduk. Looking forward to the we-use-chopsticks-so-our-brains-are-superior
ploy–or has this on been spent on Dr. Hwang?”
This is rich. Um, Seouldout? You’d never guess it from the majority of his posts, but uh….it would appear that Baduk does, in fact, have a sense of humour.
(I know. Ooky isn’t it?)
Both China and Japan have spoons. After all, it’s bloody difficult to eat soup with chopsticks (not impossible, mind you… just time-consuming).
“Is there any other group of people in the world that goes as ape-shit bonkers as Koreans do when their team catches a bad call in international sporting events? Sure, everyone gripes when their team goes down, but from what I’ve seen and heard, Koreans are unique in the intensity of their indignation.”
Cathartidae…is there any other group of people in the world that goes as ape-shit bonkers as Koreans do over ANYTHING, PERIOD?
(If you know anything about Korean student activism in the 80s then you’d know that hunger strikes are for sissies.)
Speaking of those nuts, if you actually broke out of the expat ghetto every now and then and met a few Koreans, maybe even a few who’re as progressive-minded as you are, if we can extrapolate from the links on your blog, well…who knows? Maybe you’d gain a little perspective on things.
Interesting though, how many avowedly forward-thinking people seem to have little trouble saying the darnedest things on this site….then again, the net’s not exactly about restraint is it? And this site clearly’s all about catharsis for some people, tho it comes cheap i think. Meh.
seouldout,
I have been to many Chinese restaurants with Chinese friends and have observed their eating habits. The spoon is used only for soups.
They scoop up rice with chopsticks. When little bit of rice is left, they tip the bowl to their mouth and rake in with Chopsticks (as illustrated by Woody Allen in the movie, “Manhattan”-1975?). The Japanese throw some Miso Soup into it and slurp it while making horrible sucking sound.
Koreans use spoons more often than these two peoples. I have yet to see a Korean raking in the rice as these two peoples do. It is more efficient and Koreans have to learn to do this; one less utencil to wash.
Sugar Shin – Re your remark that Koreans are virulently patriotic, not nationalistic, Korea just scored 31st out of 34 in a poll asking people how patriotic they were, i.e. how proud they were of their country. (USA Today). They are nationalists, not patriots. If they loved their country more, they wouldn’t be so angry at the rest of the world. You can come back and say that America’s love of self is motivating it to act like a bully on the world stage, and I agree – but let’s stay on topic.
Well, I’m pretty conservative in my politics, so I doubt many would accuse me of being “forward thinking.” And you’re probably right about this site being about catharsis for some people, and who knows? Perhaps it does come cheap. But I have to wonder, luke drift, if you’ve ever made similar criticisms of your catharsis-seeking dongpo on Korean forums?
Just curious.
Sugar Shin,
I’m with you and Luke on the disgust you feel over some expats using Korean netizens’ unsportsmanlike conduct and the Korean media’s fanning the flames as a poor cover for making negative generalizations about Korea,and I’ve said this several times on World Cup-related threads.
However, with regard to this statement:
Nobody got killed in Korea because of race and color, as far as I know. In Europe it’s could become reality.
Violent crimes committed by Koreans against foreigners get little or no press here, so it’s difficult to quantify. I know of three during my nine-year stay from 1992 to 2001. I can’t give you names or obviously links, but other long-time expats might be able to vouch for the authenticity of these crimes:
In 1991?, a US soldier was beaten to death by a Korean man, who told police he didn’t like seeing the soldier laughing and talking with a woman.
In the late 1990s, a male EPIK teacher named Scott, who wasassigned to a boys’ high school in Suncheon? , was stabbed to death by a Korean man because he “didn’t like foreigners teaching Korean children.” This crime was not covered directly in the English papers. Rather, it came to light through a letter to the editor from a colleague and friend.
In 1999? 2000? a US military doctor, father of four with a pregnant wife, was stabbed to death by a Korean man in Itaewon. According to the report in the KT and KH, the man claimed the doctor had verbally abused him, and the report described the man as mentally disturbed. Of course, only a mentally disturbed Korean would harm a foreigner, but hey, aren’t all perpertuators of violent hate crimes mentally disturbed? To add insult to injury, one of the papers did not use proper language to describe the man’s version of events. Instead of saying “the man alleged…”, the paper simply said the man killed the doctor because the doctor had verbally abused him, treating the man’s version as fact. The other paper used words like “alleged” and “said”. Having read the papers every day during my long stay, I do not believe the wording was careless.
I could fill a whole blog with examples of “Pro-Korean” media defense of individual Koreans or organizations in conflict with foreigners. In fact, I kept a file during my stay and it might be in a box somewhere in my garage.
Despite all this media attention on international marriages and mixed-race Koreans, Korea is still very homogenous, so there’s no point in comparing hate crimes. Even if K. Ajoshi hates foreigners, it doesn’t matter because if he merely glimpses them from time to time in public. He doesn’t work with them, and he didn’t live with them as neighbors.
Many Koreans have told me they think one advantage of being racially homogeneous is the lack of racial conflict.
I’d like to add that I spent nine years in Seoul and four years in Qingdao, China. I experienced about dozen incidents in which I was insulted, threatened, or harassed because I was a foreigner, or as a white person, presumed to be American. In China, I was called an “ugly foreigner” once. That’s it.
Of course, everyone’s experience is unique, so I wouldn’t generalize about Koreans versus Chinese in terms of attitudes towards other races and nationalities. I do think there is a definite relationship between media coverage of USFK crimes and incidents and harassment and attacks on foreigners. Some of my unpleasant experiences occurred during well-publicized and sensationalized incidents such as the subway brawl of 1995? involving a GI, his Korean wife, and a Korean man.
Just one more reason why I want USFK out of Korea tomorrow.
¡Raul, a casa!
Look at what the old boys did to Spain… O Brasil is next, fellas…
Quote USA Today sourceCultural differences might explain the lower rankings for the three Asian countries on the list — Japan (18th), Taiwan (29th), and Korea (31), Smith said.
“It is both bad luck and poor manners to be boastful about things there,” Smith said. USA Today
Koreans tend to be most critically and bitchy about their society, if they get a chance to do it anonymously and not in public, like in a survey. What does this survey mean? That Venezuela is a sane society filled with patriotism instead of virulent anti-Americanism and populistic nationalism ala Hugo Chavez because they’re ranked 2nd?
Sonagi, thanks for your infos. I’ve to tell you, that I got punked as an Asian by assholes here in Germany on a regular basis – I use to smack them their heads off. You have to somehow deal with that everyday racism…
Sonagi, I had to laugh about “Many Koreans have told me they think one advantage of being racially homogeneous is the lack of racial conflict. ” Koreans are, god bless em, the most contentious people I’ve ever encountered. Even is it isn’t racially based (and even that homogeneity is a myth) it’s regional, political, or religious conflict, or some combination. Look at how long political parties hold together for example.
Also, I don’t want to make light of your experience, but I don’t think there’s any more racism in Korea than in a lot of other countries, and the level of violence toward foreigners seems lower than elsewhere, although I haven’t exactly studied the issue.
dda, beat Brazil and we’ll meet in the final, where the German-Franco inherited enmity could bloom
never mind the spirit of European Union – this is football! Just like in the good old days of Sedan… who won then???
Sonagi,
I really feel sorry that you had experienced about dozen incidents because you were a foreigner, or as a white person, presumed to be American.
But I do also experienced everything you experienced in US, in Europe as an Oriental or Asian, called to be “Chink” or “Jap” – May be 9o% or more of people even do not know about Korea, Korean, I think.
I mean once you cross the boarder you will face the hatred feeling or racism towards foreigners, it just happens everywhere. If you are lucky you will never confront with these people.
For the ordinary Korean, 외국인 (Foreigner) means 미국인 (American) or 미군(USFK) and they got wrong impression about foreigner by Korean media and Internet. And there’s no doubt that USFK crimes add more hatred feeling to them.
RK
Are you kidding? Those nutizens are NUTS.
I do, however, make it a point to heckle, tease and harass the Koreans I know out here on just about everything that deserves heckling: these days of course it’s been all about world cup-related idiocy, but as you’ve noticed…there’s no shortage of material to slam Koreans with.
Sugar Shin, Jimong, and Michael:
Please don’t misunderstand my point. I wasn’t whining about a few bad apples. I mentioned my own experiences and provided specific examples of murders of Americans simply to show that racism exists in Korea, too.
My main point is that it is unfair for Koreans to judge themselves morally superior to Westerners because Koreans’ tolerance as a nation has never been tested. France, which considered itself loftily above the blatant racism of America, was shocked into reality by the recent riots in the immigrant suburbs. Racial conflict seems to be more or less in proportion to the numbers and degree of diversity in the population.
Consider for example the town of Palisades Park, New Jersey, across from NYC. In the 80s, Korean immigrants began moving in and buying up failing businesses, revitalizing the downtown. Korean became the main language at the local chamber of commerce meetings. Unsurprisingly, racial conflicts emerged. Today the town is about 40% Asian, mostly Korean.
Now imagine that the city of Namyangju, east of Seoul, attracts a large number of Russian immigrants, who start buying up businesses and enrolling their non-Korean speaking children in local schools. Imagine that over a ten or fifteen-year period, Namyangju becomes 40% ethnic European. Does anyone here think there wouldn’t be conflicts, especially in the schools? Organized group violence is already a serious problem in Korean schools, and if racially different children began attending Korean schools in large numbers, I believe we would see racial conflicts similar to what is found in North American schools.
Not only racial diversity, but also physical and mental disabilities. A typical classroom of twenty students at my school will contain at least one visually impaired child, a hearing-impaired child, an autistic child, and a child who uses a walker or wheelchair to move. Having returned to the US after so many years in Asia, I am IMPRESSED with how real human diversity, not just racial diversity, teaches our teachers and students to be tolerant and appreciate humanity in all its forms. The door to the counselors’ office in the middle school is adorned with a large pink triangle reading “safe space.”
How about Korean schools?
The only cities in Korea that have any proportionately large foreign presence are places like Dongducheon; a foreign military base is not the same as an immigrant community.
There are only pockets of diversity in Korea, mostly in the cities. The biggest foreign population, ethnic Koreans from China, are not highly visible.
That is my point. It is impossible to make JUDGEMENTS about racial attitudes between Koreans and other nationalities because the populations are so different.
The world would be a better place if we all tried to understand each other rather than judge each other.
Sonagi,
What you said points to the crux of the problem. And don’t get me wrong, I do think Koreans are one of worst racists and many foreigners suffer from it. Still, What disgust me is the loud cry out when it is done by Koreans and the discrete objectiveness when it is committed by them…at least here in this “hole” community.
Yeah, because it’s so insensitive of the people using the terms ‘Chink’ and ‘Jap’ not to at least get the country of origin right… Especially when they’ve obviously taken the time to talk to the person being slurred in order to find out that they’re not Chinese or Japanese.
I think that 90% of people might be a bit high when talking about people who don’t know about Korea. After all, there are plenty of people who learned about the Korean War in school and watched M*A*S*H on TV. Of course, that doesn’t mean that anyone really has much of an accurate picture of Korea or Koreans, since the average American only has what they’ve learned on TV and in school to inform their opinion of Korea. Heck, just try convincing the average American that Korea isn’t in Souteast Asia.
Of course, you could also say that the average American has a pretty distorted view of Japan, China… Canada… Well, just about any other country they haven’t actually been to, really.
“Of course, you could also say that the average American has a pretty distorted view of Japan, China… Canada… Well, just about any other country they haven’t actually been to, really”,
“American” could be substituted with many other nationalities. Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese have distorted views of each other. The list is as endless as the earth is round.
JiMong,
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on my long post. I didn’t think you’d find it since it’s being pushed down the page by newer threads.
Sonagi, that was an interesting analogy you made, I would just say that Koreans are being tested that way in the rural areas with the rise of interracial marriages (mostly S.K. men and Vietnamese women), and it might be even more disruptive than having a “foreigner community” in their midst because these families are partly Korean. We’ll see.
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