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	<title>Comments on: China suspicious about Korea&#8217;s Goguryeo history dramas</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun,  7 Sep 2008 10:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mao Zedong was Korean? &#124; The Marmot's Hole</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/#comment-165186</link>
		<dc:creator>Mao Zedong was Korean? &#124; The Marmot's Hole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 00:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3097#comment-165186</guid>
		<description>[...] about this latest apparent Korean theft of a Chinese historical treasure *cough*. See others here, here, here, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about this latest apparent Korean theft of a Chinese historical treasure *cough*. See others here, here, here, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mao Zedong was Korean? &#124; The Marmot's Hole</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/#comment-165185</link>
		<dc:creator>Mao Zedong was Korean? &#124; The Marmot's Hole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 00:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3097#comment-165185</guid>
		<description>[...] about this latest apparent Korean theft of a Chinese historical treasure *cough*. See others here, here, here, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about this latest apparent Korean theft of a Chinese historical treasure *cough*. See others here, here, here, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Frog in a Well - The Korea History Group Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/#comment-44097</link>
		<dc:creator>Frog in a Well - The Korea History Group Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 23:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3097#comment-44097</guid>
		<description>[...] I know I&#8217;m way behind the times on this subject as it was already brought up at the Marmot&#8217;s Hole weeks ago, but I&#8217;d like to put out a call for people&#8217;s thoughts on the recent flurry of new historical dramas in South Korea on the Koguryŏ kingdom. I&#8217;d be fascinated to know what any of our readers and contributors who are currently in Korea make of MBC&#8217;s &#8216;Jumong&#8216; and SBS&#8217;s &#8216;Yeongaesomun&#8216; from either a historical or dramatic point of view. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I know I&#8217;m way behind the times on this subject as it was already brought up at the Marmot&#8217;s Hole weeks ago, but I&#8217;d like to put out a call for people&#8217;s thoughts on the recent flurry of new historical dramas in South Korea on the Koguryŏ kingdom. I&#8217;d be fascinated to know what any of our readers and contributors who are currently in Korea make of MBC&#8217;s &#8216;Jumong&#8216; and SBS&#8217;s &#8216;Yeongaesomun&#8216; from either a historical or dramatic point of view. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/#comment-41087</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 01:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3097#comment-41087</guid>
		<description>Mr. Won Joon Choe, kudos to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Won Joon Choe, kudos to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Won Joon Choe</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/#comment-41084</link>
		<dc:creator>Won Joon Choe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 01:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3097#comment-41084</guid>
		<description>Zonath,

You said what I wanted to say without the FoBby verbosity that plagues my writing.

Kudos!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zonath,</p>
<p>You said what I wanted to say without the FoBby verbosity that plagues my writing.</p>
<p>Kudos!</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/#comment-41083</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3097#comment-41083</guid>
		<description>Won Joon,

Baduk insulted you, but there's no need to get angry.  Everyone here knows he's a crazy cat, and hopefully, nobody thinks he's a typical anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Won Joon,</p>
<p>Baduk insulted you, but there&#8217;s no need to get angry.  Everyone here knows he&#8217;s a crazy cat, and hopefully, nobody thinks he&#8217;s a typical anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Won Joon Choe</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/#comment-41078</link>
		<dc:creator>Won Joon Choe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3097#comment-41078</guid>
		<description>WJK says:

"Mr. Won Joon Choe, at the very least Shilla should not have brought in the Chinese to destroy its own people. That’s a crime against the Korean people. It’s glorified in the Korean history books (which seem to be unreliable according to baduk), because Shilla forces wrote it hundreds of years later in Koryo period.

Furthermore, why do you think Yun Gae So Moon told Kim Choon Choo “no” to the alliance? Maybe because Kim Choon Choo betrayed Baekjae in the Baekjae-Shilla alliance that equalized against Koguryo !

What was Yun Gae So Moon supposed to do? Ally with someone who’ll stab you in the back? This deed of Kim Choon Choo is also glorified as one who saw the future ahead, and forsake little things for the greater good. Bull shit. That’s the winner’s version of history."

I had a long response written before I responded to Baduk's ridiculous rantings, but either my ISP or Marmot's site ate it. (I keep forgetting to save if I am writing a long post.) Now I don't have the energy nor the patient to re-assemble that post. So to be succinct:

We do not disagree as much as you think. I have already agreed that Silla's unification was no genuine "unification" of the Three Kingdoms, and it damaged more than helped Korea in the long run. I will also agree with you here that the history of the Three Kingdoms we learned as teenagers in Korea is a defective, "winner's history," most likely biased toward Silla. For instance, anyone who knows anything about ancient Korean history knows that Kim Bu-sik' "Sam-guk Sa-gi"--which is the cornerstone of much Korean historiography regarding the Three Kingdoms--is hagiographic toward folks like Kim Yu-sin and at the same time unduly harsh and dismissive of someone like Yeon Gae-so-mun. 

So we disagree on a single point really in the midst of all the agreements: You cannot blame Silla for inviting the Tang because they did not think of the Koguryo people (or the Baek-jae people) as one of their own race. Koguryo and Silla did not even share the same language! You are projecting our own views of the unified Korean race back into some 1350 years ago. And that's not fair.

Blame Silla for being weak; but don't blame them for betraying then- nonexistent Korean "min-jok."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WJK says:</p>
<p>&#8220;Mr. Won Joon Choe, at the very least Shilla should not have brought in the Chinese to destroy its own people. That’s a crime against the Korean people. It’s glorified in the Korean history books (which seem to be unreliable according to baduk), because Shilla forces wrote it hundreds of years later in Koryo period.</p>
<p>Furthermore, why do you think Yun Gae So Moon told Kim Choon Choo “no” to the alliance? Maybe because Kim Choon Choo betrayed Baekjae in the Baekjae-Shilla alliance that equalized against Koguryo !</p>
<p>What was Yun Gae So Moon supposed to do? Ally with someone who’ll stab you in the back? This deed of Kim Choon Choo is also glorified as one who saw the future ahead, and forsake little things for the greater good. Bull shit. That’s the winner’s version of history.&#8221;</p>
<p>I had a long response written before I responded to Baduk&#8217;s ridiculous rantings, but either my ISP or Marmot&#8217;s site ate it. (I keep forgetting to save if I am writing a long post.) Now I don&#8217;t have the energy nor the patient to re-assemble that post. So to be succinct:</p>
<p>We do not disagree as much as you think. I have already agreed that Silla&#8217;s unification was no genuine &#8220;unification&#8221; of the Three Kingdoms, and it damaged more than helped Korea in the long run. I will also agree with you here that the history of the Three Kingdoms we learned as teenagers in Korea is a defective, &#8220;winner&#8217;s history,&#8221; most likely biased toward Silla. For instance, anyone who knows anything about ancient Korean history knows that Kim Bu-sik&#8217; &#8220;Sam-guk Sa-gi&#8221;&#8211;which is the cornerstone of much Korean historiography regarding the Three Kingdoms&#8211;is hagiographic toward folks like Kim Yu-sin and at the same time unduly harsh and dismissive of someone like Yeon Gae-so-mun. </p>
<p>So we disagree on a single point really in the midst of all the agreements: You cannot blame Silla for inviting the Tang because they did not think of the Koguryo people (or the Baek-jae people) as one of their own race. Koguryo and Silla did not even share the same language! You are projecting our own views of the unified Korean race back into some 1350 years ago. And that&#8217;s not fair.</p>
<p>Blame Silla for being weak; but don&#8217;t blame them for betraying then- nonexistent Korean &#8220;min-jok.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Won Joon Choe</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/#comment-41072</link>
		<dc:creator>Won Joon Choe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3097#comment-41072</guid>
		<description>Baduk The Hypocrite says:

"I would call it more than a hunch. I have a master’s degree in biophysical chemistry...

You are a typical Korean. Do some research before you put down a person, be he a Korean or a non-Korean. Respect other person."

First, saying that your prediction that Dr. Hwang will turn out to be a fraud was based on a "hunch" is no serious insult--no matter what your scientific qualifications. 

You did not have inside information, and plenty of more competent geneticists than you were swindled by Dr. Hwang as well.

Second, the fact that you are so indignant because I supposedly insulted you is oh so ironic, given that you have called me a "banana" and confidently predicted that "Your children will spit on your face" in our very first interaction--unprovoked. 

(see post #36)

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/25/fifa-homepage-blockedkfa-considers-official-protestwiki-warfare/#comments

Perhaps it is YOU, not I, who is a "typical Korean":Hyperventilating when others do them "wrong" (even when the wrong is imagined) but blithely forgetful of the wrongs he has done to others.

Since you are so fond of biblical imagery (and have a penchant for threatening others with fire and brimstones) and I too am a rather avid reader of the bible, here's a thought for you:

"You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baduk The Hypocrite says:</p>
<p>&#8220;I would call it more than a hunch. I have a master’s degree in biophysical chemistry&#8230;</p>
<p>You are a typical Korean. Do some research before you put down a person, be he a Korean or a non-Korean. Respect other person.&#8221;</p>
<p>First, saying that your prediction that Dr. Hwang will turn out to be a fraud was based on a &#8220;hunch&#8221; is no serious insult&#8211;no matter what your scientific qualifications. </p>
<p>You did not have inside information, and plenty of more competent geneticists than you were swindled by Dr. Hwang as well.</p>
<p>Second, the fact that you are so indignant because I supposedly insulted you is oh so ironic, given that you have called me a &#8220;banana&#8221; and confidently predicted that &#8220;Your children will spit on your face&#8221; in our very first interaction&#8211;unprovoked. </p>
<p>(see post #36)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/25/fifa-homepage-blockedkfa-considers-official-protestwiki-warfare/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/...../#comments</a></p>
<p>Perhaps it is YOU, not I, who is a &#8220;typical Korean&#8221;:Hyperventilating when others do them &#8220;wrong&#8221; (even when the wrong is imagined) but blithely forgetful of the wrongs he has done to others.</p>
<p>Since you are so fond of biblical imagery (and have a penchant for threatening others with fire and brimstones) and I too am a rather avid reader of the bible, here&#8217;s a thought for you:</p>
<p>&#8220;You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother&#8217;s eye.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/#comment-41068</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3097#comment-41068</guid>
		<description>@Juchechosunmanse:  &lt;b&gt;"Every country has its fair share of lunatics, so does China. And Korea. Ching chong chang, the chinaman? Pawi sounds like a typical ignorant and ugly American to me."&lt;/b&gt;

I like how you excoriate Pawi for making a negative generalization and then make one yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Juchechosunmanse:  <b>&#8220;Every country has its fair share of lunatics, so does China. And Korea. Ching chong chang, the chinaman? Pawi sounds like a typical ignorant and ugly American to me.&#8221;</b></p>
<p>I like how you excoriate Pawi for making a negative generalization and then make one yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/22/china-suspicious-about-koreas-goguryeo-history-dramas/#comment-41067</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3097#comment-41067</guid>
		<description>I'm just saying it's not Han Chinese land.  Han attacked Gojoseon to destroy Gojoseon, who held it for 2000 years according to Korean history.  Han got a slim strait of it for 400 years, and for most of its history, it was held by Manchurians, Khitan, etc from thence forth.  If it was truly part of Chinese land, you'd see the great wall covering all of it.  It's not part of "China proper" by any historic definition.  It became part of the PRC because Qing had it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just saying it&#8217;s not Han Chinese land.  Han attacked Gojoseon to destroy Gojoseon, who held it for 2000 years according to Korean history.  Han got a slim strait of it for 400 years, and for most of its history, it was held by Manchurians, Khitan, etc from thence forth.  If it was truly part of Chinese land, you&#8217;d see the great wall covering all of it.  It&#8217;s not part of &#8220;China proper&#8221; by any historic definition.  It became part of the PRC because Qing had it.</p>
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